[winstonsmith]

Wow, my anti parents have switched sides pretty quickly. I think the argument that swayed them was, "You'd trust me with a car. Cars kill more people than guns, and are alot more complex and expensive."

Can't really argue with that.

So there is this shooting club/riflery class that I'm going to start attending. Heres a link: http://www.prgc.net/youth.htm

After a period of attending that class not to exceed a few months, my parents will allow me to purchase a rifle. I wanted to get a practical gun for plunking at ranges, with a respectable but fairly light round, thats cheap, durable, and reliable. One that caught my eye is the SKS. Question number one: Is that a good choice? Why or why not? Whats a good alternative? Question number two: Do you think that the 7.62 x 39mm round is too hot for a newbie like me?

Also, I want a way to render it inoperable so my irresponsible older brother cannot get at it. When at school or out, I'd take the bolt with me. Question number three: When I'm home, what are some cheap systems that allow for security and easy access, but also make it purty to display on a wall. Some sort of trigger lock, maybe, but I don't know how hard those are to fumble with.

Question number four: Whats the next logical step after a rifle/carbine? 20ga shotgun? Maybe a 870 youth?

Thanks for the great advice I'm sure is coming-

[7.62FullMetalJacket]

Slow down. SKS = illegal in California if it has a detachable magazine.

Start with a .22 rimfire. Learn how to care for a rifle. Learn how to shoot a rifle. Learn how to safely handle a rifle. Ammo for the .22 rimfire is inexpensive. No recoil and pleasant to shoot.

Stay away from the trophies.

If you're Big Bro is going to be a problem, then no trigger or bolt lock will stop him. Get a safe.

Owning and caring for a firearm is a HUGE responsibility.

Who is going to train you? Dad? Mom? Uncle? Instructor? If an instructor, is there anybody around your house that knows anything about firearms?

Sorry, but you sound young, and eager to get that "assault weapon" for show and tell.

[winstonsmith]

I'm sorry if I came across like that.

I didn't mean it like that. I am understandably excited to be allowed this opportunity. I guess thats what came across, instead of the care and diligence I should have shown.

No, I'm not into trophies at all. The trophy for me is the self respect, discipline and confidence, not some material thing.

You have a point though...

[Dave Markowitz]

winston,

Glad to hear that your parents saw the light of reason!

I have an SKS but IMO, it's a poor choice as a first rifle. They have crummy sights, are not all that accurate, and the trigger stinks. Recoil is mild and ammo is cheap, compared with other centerfire rounds, but isn't as cheap as .22 ammo.

For your first gun, I strongly urge that you get a bolt action rifle in .22 Long Rifle, that uses a detachable box magazine. There are several reasons for this:

1. A good bolt action .22 can be acquired relatively inexpensively.
2. .22 LR ammo is cheap, which allows you to shoot more, which allows you to get the fundamentals of being a safe, good shot down pat.
3. .22 LR in a rifle has next to no recoil.
4. Bolt actions encourage learning the fundamentals without the temptation of "spray & pray."
5. Bolt actions have a simple manual of arms.
6. A detachable box magazine makes it easy to load and unload the rifle.
7. It is very easy to remove the bolt completely from the gun, rendering it inoperable. You can get a small, locking box to put it in to keep it away from your brother.
8. If you take care of it, a good quality bolt action .22 will last you the rest of your life, and be able to be passed down to your kids.

Something like the Marlin 25N (http://www.marlinfirearms.com/firearms/boltAction22/25N.htm) would be ideal. It comes with open sights, but you may wish to add a receiver peep sight or a scope for better accuracy.

Savage's MarkII (http://www.savagearms.com/rimfire_home.htm) is another good option, and is made in a left handed version if you're a southpaw like me.

You may also want to pick up for $6 from the NRA, their book
The Basics of Rifle Shooting (http://store.nrahq.org/nra/product.asp?dept%5Fid=237&pf%5Fid=EF+13180) .

Hope this helps.

[ksnecktieman]

FIRST RIFLE!!!! You are going to keep it for a lifetime. If you select it properly you will pass it to your son/sons, or grandkids. If you select it properly you will use it regularly for your whole life.
So the things you want to look for are reliable, inexpensive, accurate, and, most of all, fun and easy to shoot. A .22 makes a lot of sense, because you can get a 500 round "brick" of ammunition in the ten dollar range, as opposed to ten cents or more per round for any of the centerfire rifles.

My suggestion would be a Ruger 10/22, .22 semi automatic. At my Walmart here in Kansas I can buy one new for 159.95 (and 40$ more will install a nice scope). Reliable and accurate out of the box. If you wish to personalize it in the attempt to make it better there are a lot of accessories out there. And if you want to be serious about it you can make it into a bench rest rifle as your skill level and desire increase.

What is your age and how tall are you? The 10/22 is a very short rifle.

[pbhome71]

I think a SKS is not a bad choice for a first center-fire. You probably need someone to help select one. It has some quirk which you need to be aware of. However, a good 22lr rifle is a must have. It is a lot of fun, cheap to shoot, and you can shoot at both indoor, and outdoor range.

For a 22lr, instead of a 10/22, I would get a CZ 452. It is a nice bolt action. If you get a "Special", or "Lux", it came with a nice iron sight.

One thing to remember. You can always get a 10/22, or Marlin, or a whatever. Their prices are pretty stable. It won't changed much. For example, I bought a 10/22 in 1997 at almost $200.00, yeah I know I paid too much. You can get one now a day for about the same, and lower at many places. But a SKS is a bit different. IMHO. Remember a $89.00 Russian SKS, $90.00 Romanian? We are pretty lucky that right now we have a very inexpensive Yugo SKS. I don't think the price will be this low for a long time. You'll kick yourself 4 years from now that you should have bought one when it was not so expensive.

[Destructo6]

I would not consider a SKS to be a bad first rifle choice. Cheap to buy, cheap to shot, simple, reliable, and reasonably accurate. A Yugo SKS with a muzzle brake is legal in CA and can be had for about $150 at Turner's. Recoil on these is very low.

Trigger locks are mandated in CA, but they're fairly easy to defeat.

[Tag]

I've been drooling over these (http://www.savagearms.com/10fp.htm) and these (http://www.remington.com/firearms/centerfire/700vssf.htm) for awhile, not .22's, so the ammo would be a little more, but I think either would make an excellent first rifle.

to your specific questions, as I just wen't through this process to a limited degree.

1: The SKS would make a fine second rifle, but I think it's crummy sights/trigger and less than spectacular accuracy would make it a bad introduction.

2: I don't know how big you are, but I doubt the recoil off a 7.62x39 would be too much.

3: Getting a lock box for your bolt is an excellent suggestion. You might look at a good cable lock as well, and idealy a Safe. It's a serious bussiness keeping guns.

4: The next logical step, by my logic anyways, is Mil-Surp bolt actions. but that's just me.


The class looks great, hope everything works out for you.

Happy Holidays

[winstonsmith]

Thanks for the advice all...

137 lbs, 5'7. Hapkido, running, and weights. So you know thats all bones, guts, and muscle. Not much... erm.. padding.

[Telperion]

Ditto on the recommendations for .22 LR. If you're at all interested in competitive shooting, you'll probably have more options with a .22 than an SKS.

Dunno what to say about your "security" problem. Don't bring gun parts to school. Embarassing misunderstanding if forced to explain.

[Andrew Wyatt]

1. DO NOT GET A CENTERFIRE FOR YOUR FIRST RIFLE.

2. DO NOT GET A SEMI FOR YOUR FIRST RIFLE.


Seriously.


There are many good reasons for this, but the primary reason to stick with a .22 RF boltgun is the fact that it's the easiest to shoot of all longarms, along with the fact that i can be shot in many more locations, and it is the least expensive to take care of.

You must get one with good iron sights. A marlin, savage or other boltgun would be a good buy, along with an aperature reciever sight like a weaver,marbles, or williams. These can be added to the above rifles for a pittance.

If you get anything less than a .22RF with aperature reciever sights, you are going to pay a price in decreased skill.


Get a cheap safe/lock box. Put the gun in the safe. Do not take the bolt with you.

[theCZ]

If you are going the 22 route, normally I'd advise a CZ-452, since I am a fanatic of mine. I get fantastic groups with mine, and the price is great. And I'd definately not recommend a semi-auto, but a lever-action, that's a different story. A smooth 22 lever action is just a hoot. I've shot both of Henry's 22 lever actions, and while the golden boy might be fancier looking, the action is just as smooth on the standard model. Plus you can mount a scope on the standard model.

[c_yeager]

Just because everyone gets a .22 doesnt mean its the only choice. Get what you will ENJOY shooting. My very first gun ever was a Makarov when i was about 13 years old. I shot the living heck out of that thing (still have it too since its worth about $50 now). For me it was more fun than anything else before that. I just couldnt get all that excited about the little pop-gun .22's that the other kids had. Plus since i was shooting s centerfire pistol as a kid i never became recoil sensitive. Of course with that said, as an adult i put more rounds through .22's than everything else combined. A .22 IS a really good place to start but, if you think youll have a lot more fun with an SKS then i would say to go that route. And dont let people freak you out about the legalities of SKS rifles. It is the RARE SKS that uses a detatchable magazine.

[learnedmonkey]

The .22lr is a definite must have. You should learn and train on that one primarily.

However, if you are strongly attracted to the SKS, I'd also echo the sentiment that now is a prime opportunity to pick up a good Yugo SKS for around $100, give or take about $25 depending on the condition and any shipping/transfer fees/modifications. Make sure you get one that's been made California-legal. But aside from my old Mossberg 46B .22, the Yugo SKS was my first "real" gun. I've been very happy with the purchase. It's a lot of fun to shoot, and it doesn't really have the accuracy issues it is sometimes criticized for. The Albanian SKS, from a collectability standpoint, would be another excellent choice because they're quite a bit rarer, and are already disappearing from the bargain shelves. They come Cali-legal, unlike the Yugo, but I've heard mixed reviews about their performace as shooters; some people have gotten really good shooters, and some have gotten pretty poor shooters. Wolf 7.62x39 ammo is the cheapest ammo you're going to find for a gun, aside from the .22lr that is the king of cheap.

I'd advise one of the excellent .22lr's already recommended (semi's just fine for a beginner in that caliber, although part of the learning experience is learning how to deal with bolt action as well). But as soon as you can after that, get yourself that SKS.

[only1asterisk]

Attend class for a couple of months, shoot as many rifles/guns as possible, find out what you like and ask us again. If you are serious about learning to shoot well, I suggest you invest your money in a .22 with good sights. Many of us here like the CZ452 and the EAA Biathlon Trainer. The SKS is a fine gun for blasting suplus ammo though, but isn't going to teach you about marksmanship. Plus in CA its going to cost you way more than it's worth.
I'm not against anyone getting a centerfire for their first rifle, I think a bolt action 223 would be great, but then you have to add sights and pay ten times more for ammo.
As for shotguns, you are dead on there. The 870 20ga youth is a fine gun. I was 14 when I bought my first 870. It was my first gun and I still have it. PRGC has a skeet range too. A shotgun will teach you different, but no less useful, aspects of markmanship.
After you learn the basic skills of the rifle and shotgun, you can move on in whatever direction you want.


David

[WVleo]

Hi, you should take some time to determine what type of shooting you enjoy B4 running out to purchase that first firearm ! How many of us here are always thinning out the safe Queens ! LOL LOL . Go to the local gun club you mention and see if you can shoulder a few . Take the time to research ( as you are doing here ) because thats part of the enjoyment I think . A centerfire rifle will do you know good if your local range doesn't support that type of firearm . Or a .22lr wouldn't be useful if your club shoots hi-power matches ? All firearms no matter the caliber or operation mode should be handled as destructive devices so learn your firearm safety habits !!!!! And enjoy what few other nations in this world give you the right to DO ! Have fun ,Be Safe !!! WVleo

[AV1611]

Good posts guys. I also agree with the .22 bolt action rifle suggestion. May I also suggest stainless steel. Marlin makes great bolt action stainless rifles. Available in either wood or synthetic. Your choice. $200 more or less.

For your first larger caliber rifle... definitely a Yugo SKS. Cheap ammo. Very reliable. Full sized "battle rifle" in length and weight that shoots an intermediate power round. Light recoil. $150 more or less in like new condition.

For first pistol... definitely a .357 revolver. 38 specials are pussy cats out of a medium sized gun (Smith 66, Ruger GP100, etc.)

AV1611 out...

[Soap]

Winston,

I bought my first AR-15 at age 16 and my first handgun (Sig 228) when I was 15. Of course my father owned them but for all practical purposes they were mine. That said, I had already been shooting .22s since I was four years old. The trigger time that one can get with a .22 rifle is invaluable. I would suggest getting a good .22 bolt action and then purchasing Art of the Rifle by Jeff Cooper. Congratulations on moving forward! :cool:

[redneck2]

rather than buying something new, consider something used. I cruise all the local gun shops and pawn shops...

dunno about Kali, but in Indiana you can save tons of bucks if you look before you buy. If you haven't shot at all or haven't shot much, I'd start with a .22 bolt. I have an SKS and several .22's. The SKS is great for turning money into noise, but they're brutally loud and the ergonomics are as stated above.

And...you were talking about having something to show. The LAST thing you want to do is let others know you have a firearm. Just a few of my very best friends know what I have. It isn't anybody else's business. And, if someone breaks into your home and the firearm isn't secured, you or your parents could be looking at jail.

First three rules of gun ownership...

#1...any gun is always loaded. Sounds hokey, but members here (including myself) can relate times when "empty" guns ended up having live rounds in them. Anytime, and I mean ANYTIME you pick up or are handed a firearm, clear the action, even if you just watched someone else do it. Remember, you're responsible now.

#2....keep you firearm secured. Even if you put an eye bolt into a wall stud and used a plastic coated bike cable and padlock, it's a good start. Put it in a closet out of sight.

#3....keep your mouth shut. Biggest temptation is to show everyone your new toy (even for guys like me that are way older than you).

Good luck on your new endeavor. If you have questions, type away

[E=MC^2]

I think a .22 rimfire bolt-gun is an excellant starter. My first was a 1939 Remington TargetMaster my grandfather bought new for $5.95. It's awaiting it's 4th generation as a starter(my kids).

A quality firearm will last forever and a rimfire will last for 1-million+ rounds if you keep the bore brushes out of the barrel. In fact, I've read articles where there's one that's nearing the 2-million mark. I think it was in South Africa.

Of current production rimfires the ones that get my attention most are the CZ's. Excellant workmanship for the price. I'd learn on the irons-sights before purchasing a scope. A scope doesn't make a rifle any more accurate. It might aid some shooters though. Remember that last year an iron-sighted shooter fired 20-of-20 bullseyes at 1,000yds at a highpower match. 7 of those were in the X-ring.

Here's another bit of advice as you venture into your rifle-buying future-

I started out buying everything I came across when I was younger. This includes 11 new-in-box SKS's you mentioned in your earlier post. After a few years I had $10's-of-thousands in firearms I rearely used yet thought a rifle costing $2,000-$3,000 was a waste a money. I now think it's the other way around. I think everyone has what could be called their "main rifle". When you decide on yours set no spending limits on the quality of the piece or it's optics. Believe me, you will come out money ahead.

A rifleman NEEDS-
One centerfire
One rimfire
One shotgun

This doesn't include specialty firearms such as those used for competition or certain game animals, yet you will find these basic 3 arms can cover nearly everything. I still have a large number of rare firearms in 2 safes but my basic 3 fill all my shooting needs.

[Tamara]

Some excellent advice here.

I know that .22's may not be very "sexy," but I probably bust more caps through my Browning BL-22 than all my other long guns combined.

[Selfdfenz]

Get a CZ special or trainer or even the youth model if it fits better.

Shoot it for a while and when you are good with irons get a good quality scope. Even the high end traget and match ammo is within the reach of a shooter on a budget and Wolf/SK is a good all round choice.

That rifle will make you a rifleman and you will keep it forever.

Also, you can shoot a 22 lots of places you can't shoot a HPR.

S-

[uglymofo]

Man, what a dog it was. 7 lb. of pure hell. I was 23, I didn't know my xxx from a hole in the ground, but I really liked that rifle (what'd I know?? :rolleyes: ), so I bought it. Expensive to feed, kicked worse than the military version because it was lighter, and tough to shoot because of the ugly trigger and terrible sights.

These guys are right, I'd probably still have it because it was my first gun, but I loaned it to an @ssh0le I thought was a friend, and he sold it after I left town for a stint in college. I really couldn't see myself starting out with a .22. I didn't know much about guns, but I knew the .22s were no challenge (yeah, right) or fun whatsoever, because they had no recoil, they went "tink" instead of "ka-BOOM!! like my 30-06.

It took me a long time to learn how to shoot properly because of the mistakes I made choosing and shooting my first choice. Now, whenever I'm asked for my opinion, I say what the majority of the others have said-- 22LR. Nothing available is cheaper to shoot in volume, and allows the shooter to learn so quickly as a non-recoiling .22, be it rifle or pistol. Yes, there's no glamour in the caliber. No one will notice when you 'touch one off'. Hell, most won't even hear it over the other gunfire. But with just a little (real cheap) practice, you'll be ten times the shooter you would be practicing with bigbores, and in 1/2 the time. Learning to sight, hold, breathe, squeeze, and call shots will come so much more quickly. You'll be able to transfer these skills to any centerfire or bigbore caliber rifle you chose, and shoot them better on your first time out, than you would have if you'd done the same amount of shooting if you'd started out with that bigger caliber.

[geekWithA.45]

Congrats Winston!

You've made some serious headway in a relatively short time!

Like many others, I'm gonna suggest a 22 lr.

Where I'm gonna be different from everyone else is to say that it needn't necessarilly be a boltie.

Traditionally, first rifles are single shots or bolties primarily to prevent 10 year olds from spraying lead all over the place, and to help them understand that each and every shot COUNTS.

OK, get it? EACH AND EVERY SHOT COUNTS.

That being said, having kept tab on your posts on and off, I think your maturity level is such that you can find it within yourself to bring out that discipline from within, rather than have it enforced from without by your hardware.

When I was growing up, the traditional way to keep brothers out of our proudly wall mounted rifles was to run a loop of plastic coated steel cable through the action, and lock it to a securely mounted 'blind" bolt set in a stud. Alternately, the cable would be routed THROUGH the wall stud.

A good $10 lock and $5 cable, and an hours work might be good enough in your situation, especially since any gunsafe worth installing is gonna cost more than your rifle.

Owning a firearm is a big responsibility, true, but I take exception to the "encase it in concrete" mentality of recent years.

.22 LR is the way to go.

For a second rifle, I'd look into some of the Ruger .17 hmr rifles, which IMO makes a whole lot of sense as a first centerfire, and but for the cost of ammo, (cheap ammo = lots of practice) I'd even consider it a valid "first" rifle.

[iamkris]

winston

Congrats on your new step in life.

I started shooting my dad's old Mossberg 22 when I was about 10 (after BB guns for years...shooting pigeons and sparrows in our barn for $0.10 a piece in bounty). The BB guns and 22 taught me marksmanship mostly because at 10 to 12 years old, that ammo can seem expensive. I got a Ruger 10/22 when I was 16 and used it as a pray and spray...and with it went all my self-imposed training.

I got out of rifle shooting in high school and college (went handguns and shotguns) and have only recently (I'm 38 now) become intereted in rifles again. As I've started shooting again I realize I have no idea of how to shoot one.

I wish I would have taken it seriously in my adolescence. I heartily recommend 1) starting with a 22, 2) taking classes as you've already indicated and 3) sticking with it.

Save the SKS (a great fun gun BTW...I have one) for later.

[BowStreetRunner]

yeah congratulations on convincing the parents!
i have an SKS as my only rifle and it is ok but a really wish i had a .22 to shoot with cheaply
.22 ammo is sooooo cheap......man if 9X18 was that cheap id shoot every other day
my bro has one of these and it works great
http://www.savagearms.com/markiifxp.htm
you can get a nice sized safe for 80 bucks too......tall enough to hold rifles and wide enough for 8 or so......that would probably be the best way to secure the rifle from younger brothers.
good luck!
BSR

[Kaylee]

My first rifle was an SKS.
The guys advising a .22 are right. :)
Another vote for the CZ 452.

That's presuming, of course, your goal is to learn how to shoot a rifle accurately.

If your goal is to just have fun plinking/converting money into noise/have "a real weapon" around -- normally I'd suggest a SAR or som'n, but since you're in PRK I guess an SKS is your best bet.

-K

[JShirley]

Congrats on persuading your folks to give you the opportunity to show your responsibility. Use the chance to reinforce this.

A .22 is a good thing to have, inexpensive in most incarnations, and is cheap to feed.

SKS is good, too, but if you get one, get a Williams' Peep sight before you even take it out to the range.

Bicycle lock and chain, and removing your bolt, should both keep the weapon safe and stationary.

[winstonsmith]

Good advice all. .22 it is... ;) :o

BSR said: you can get a nice sized safe for 80 bucks too......tall enough to hold rifles and wide enough for 8 or so......that would probably be the best way to secure the rifle from younger brothers.

Yeah, that's the problem. It's my OLDER brother. And he's ALMOST as smart and clever as I am :neener: . So that means the system will have to be pretty secure... But I don't want it to cost more than the rifle.

[Baba Louie]

Another vote for a rifle thats "CHEAP TO FEED" and promotes concentrating on developing good habits at the get go.

Marlin, Ruger or CZ bolt action w/ open sights. A detachable magazine is also nice because if you take the bolt out and the magazine and lock them up separate from rifle, irresponsible types who live under the same roof can only use it as a club or will get less for it should they choose to dispose of it for their own profit...

My vote also goes to the CZ line... and this one in particular
http://www.cz-usa.com/product.detail.php?id=45

Something about the mannlicher style stock I really like. While it has its drawbacks once the barrel heats up, it is a work of art worthy of ownership and use over, say, the next 50 years of your life.

But, on the other hand, SKS types are fun and sorta almost cheap to feed, can be used in different scenarios from hunting to the proverbial EOTWAWKI... they only made so many of them and supplies may be limited. You can aftermarket them to death. My little Russian 45 helped teach my daughter to shoot centerfire and it will eventually be hers (tho she does like the M1 Carbine as well... who wouldn't?).

Or you could get really weird and look for something with two barrels...
one rifled and one smoothbore
http://www.savagearms.com/24f20.htm
but they're kinda homely.

Also consider the single shot rimfire
http://www.savagearms.com/30g.htm

Or (this is really reaching) a quality airgun (your parents would be so proud) its not evil, no gunpowder involved, and you'd be helping the world economy by buying Russian
http://www.eaacorp.com/airguns/izhMP532/enlarge.shtml

Re-reading my first sentence and considering the last suggestion brings me to a close.

Good job Winstonsmith, happy hunting.

[redneck]

I'll jump on the bandwagon and say a .22 bolt gun. Its really the best platform for learning on. Not only is it a cheap way to learn all the basics but its what you can go back to to practice the basics when your higher powered stuff starts giving you bad habits like flinching. And did I mention it was cheap, you can get 500 rounds for less than $10 easily.

As far as your problem with securing it, I can recomend a Marlin. At least on my 81TS, the bolt can be lifted out simply by pulling the trigger back all the way and pulling back on the bolt. Lock the bolt up somewhere (I wouldn't take it to school, could get you in a lot of trouble if people find out what it is) and the rifle is inoperable. Its a very simple design in a very sturdy little rifle. Already grooved for a scope should you want one, and the iron sights are pretty decent too, and I think everybody should learn to shoot with irons at some point. Mine shoots good too, seems to like any ammo I put in it. Last time I had it out I was getting 1/2" groups at 30 yards offhand with the iron sights shooting CCI mini mag hollow points,I'm sure the rifle is capable of better accuracy than I am :)

[BowStreetRunner]

WS....
hehe....sorry, i assumed that you wanted to keep the gun out of the hands of a YOUNGER brother

almost as smart as you are? that sounds like something my younger brothers would say about me

well ....you could try and find a cheap gunsafe that has a combo lock, that way your bro cant find the keys......but those run more i think.....most of the affordable safes are key locks i believe....at least the ones big enough to hold a long gun

you could always made a wooden trunk (or buy a cheap one) and put a masterlock on it

then unless bro wants to cut it open with a saw he'll be SOL

BSR

[BowStreetRunner]

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=39303

here is an affordable key locking safe that i was talking about

unfortunately i couldnt find any affordable combo safes......although my definition of affordable may be more spartan than many people :)

BSR

[theCZ]

If you are into pistols, think about getting a CZ-75 in 9mm or 40SW and the Kadet 22 conversion. That way you can shoot a lot of 22 to get used to it all and then change the slide and magazines out for centerfire.

[MAKOwner]

I'd skip a bolt gun (and did) and get a Ruger 10/22 for a first gun. You'll get some time on a .22 bolt gun in that rifle club/class I would think if they do any live-fire stuff at all. The 10/22 is incredibly versatile, tons of accessories and being semiauto it's more fun to me. I got an SKS as my first centerfire, great choice there for your second rifle IMO...

[chaim]

Another vote for a bolt gun for a first gun. If you go with a semi-auto the temptation will be there to just blast away and you won't get nearly as much out of your practice time (though it is a lot of fun- if you practice a lot maybe you'll be ready for the semi after a year, 6 months if you are really impatient). However, if you will go with a semi then the Ruger 10/22 is the way to go- the trigger is terrible with a reset long enough that you can probably shoot a bolt rifle faster:p . Seriously, I had a 10/22 and I really never warmed to it, my first gun was a Marlin 60 which I absolutely love (though it does have a trigger reset that makes it too tempting to blast away sometimes). Either way, make sure it has iron sights and learn on those before buying a scope.

You should also go with something cheap to feed. Always important, but especially so since you are a teen. If you want centerfire .223 is pretty cheap, and 7.62x39 is almost as cheap as .22lr. Of course, .22lr is the cheapest way to go. You'll get a ton of economical practice in with it and become a much better shooter as a result.

LIke everyone else I love the idea of the CZ .22. I plan to get a 452 Lux myself (possibly replacing my Remington 581 bolt rifle with it). If that is too much money you can get a CZ trainer for not much more than the more garden variety .22 bolt rifles and it should be much nicer. If you want to go cheaper, just about anything from Savage or Marlin should be a good quality budget buy.

[Chuck Jennings]

Congratulations!! It is exciting to get you first gun. :D

Incidentally, i agree that a bolt action .22 is the way to go. It is a good tool fro developing good habits, as it forces you to think about each shot.

Of course, a primary responsibility of gun owners is safety. A gunlock is definitely in order. In CA the law requires that you have a CA Department of Justice approved gunlock or prove that you own a DOJ approved Gun Safe. A DOJ approved lock may already come with you rifle. If not, you will be required to prove that you have purchased a DOJ approved lock within the past thirty days before the gun will be released to you. Any of the approved locks should keep you brother from shooting the gun, as long as you don’t let your brother get a hold of the key!

Not to scare you away from guns, but under CA laws, individuals can be found criminally liable if a minor does something with a gun that was improperly locked (According to CA guidelines) As a CA gun owner, I definitely would suggest you peruse the CA DOJ website at http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/index.html for a complete list of CA gun laws, as well as FAQ’s concerning gun laws in CA. In order to insure that we can keep what gun rights we have in this crazy state, it is imperative that we not be found on the wrong side of the law.

I have recently moved to CA, and have also recently reentered the shooting sports. The first thing that I did before I did anything with guns in CA was spend a couple days really looking though all of the CA code pertaining to firearms. It is a drag, but it is just as important to firearms ownership as proficiency. Of course on of the best sources of information is the "search" function of this website! I have lurked for quite a while, and this is my first post!!

Good luck!

[Dionysusigma]

FORGET ALL ELSE! GET A MOSIN-NAGANT!:p :D

Just kidding. Though it'd be an okay bolt gun and reeeeeally get you used to recoil, go with the .22. I vote for the Marlin... they're cheaper than a Steyr, and are as accurate as the shooter. My advice (and a good friend's as well) is: Get a bunch of paper plates, unimportant baseball cards, whatever... and shoot. A lot. Spend whole days shooting. Get as many bulk packs of ammo as you can carry, go somewhere, and fire away. Another benefit of the bolt action is that you have to re-aim every time you shoot, and semis tend to "spoil" newbies a bit since they don't have to lose their aim until they reload.

When I first started to learn to shoot (earlier this year, in February), I started with one of those crappy 200fps Marksman BB pistols. I set up a little 4x6" target at a tree about 20 feet away, and spent a couple of hours by myself just going *POP* clik-chink *POP* until the next day... there were some decent crosswinds at 25-30mph, the target was moved back to about 45 yards, and I was hitting the same tiny target with the same consistency (15/18 shots made contact). Of course, I had to aim about 30 degrees upward and aim 6 feet to the right, but hey--practice is practice.

Start small and cheap. Get the SKS now, but don't let yourself shoot it too much until you're quite confident with the .22. (Note: My second rifle was/ is an SAR-1 ;) )

HTH:)

[benEzra]

If you decide to go with a .22, I would respectfully suggest a semiauto like a Ruger 10/22. They can be highly accurate, and the temptation to "just blast away" is just like the temptation to jerk the trigger--be aware of it, don't do it, and you'll shoot fine. Personally, I find bolt-action .22's rather boring, but get what works for you. (No offense meant to any bolt-action fans, just a personal opinion.)

SKS's are fine rifles and the recoil is not bad, but the sights aren't the easiest to learn to shoot with. 7.62x39 is probably the cheapest centerfire round available, though--about 1.99 for a box of 20. (Compare to .22LR at around a dollar for 50, though.)

BTW, my first "real rifle" was a scoped mini-14 ranch rifle, which was loads of fun (and still is).

[Feanaro]

Why not get an SKS and a .22? One of the less expensive Yugo models and a good bolt/semi .22 will cost less than three hundred dollars. Personally, I never enjoyed shooting .22s. I had no fun doing it, so I didn't shoot with them much. Of course, I started out on 8x57 Mauser so that might be why I find .22s to be so wussified. Although I did have my father, ex-Airforce and a crackshot, showing me what to do.

[GigaBuist]

My opinion will be drowned out by people saying .22LR bolt is the way to go, and I can't argue with that at all! However, I'm not really opposed to an SKS as a first rifle.

My first rifle as an AR-15; but that's because I got re-introduced into shooting by a retired marine. His suggestion was to aquire a Bushmaster "shorty"... I ended up getting the Dissapator because it was available and honestly think that it was a better choice given the long sight radius. He leaned toward the shorty because the 16" barrel was better for clearing rooms. Seriously. That factored into my deicision so I got the Dissapator instead of a 20" barrel.

Given the cost, that's not something in your arena though; plus you live in PRK. I'm still not sure if it was a bad idea or not... even with a semi-auto when I'm trying to peg a target with open sights I usually spend a good 10-20 seconds getting things ready and concentrating.

When I got my first bolt action rifle (Mosin Nagant m44) I really started to concentrate on my breathing/trigger control.

I'm not sure if I would have done that if I had a .22LR instead of the 7.62x54 though. I can't shoot the MN all day long, as it'll rip my shoulder off if I don't have a good coat on. I ran 20 or 30 through it one day in a t-shirt to help me concentrate more soon after I got it. Knowning that I'd experience physical pain (I'm skinny) after a shot made me concentrate on getting the job done; meaning good placement. Launching a good 30 cal bullet says "this one counts" more to me than .22LR. Just my two cents. Given that I'm not a crackshot and have far less experience than other THR members on here I'll conceede that I may be wrong. It's information for table discussion.

I get a big kick out of the "history" of guns though, so a military pattern rifle is more intriguing to me. My Remington 870 just about never goes to the range for that reason. The last time I broke it down to re-lube it (been a year) I had to actually look up the instruction manual. With my AK or AR I can pretty much do it blind folded. They're more fun to tinker with and learn about than a current production run-of-the-mill .22 to me.

If you want something fun to shoot and turn you into an absolute "gun nut" in the future the SKS is good. You -can- use it to pick up decent shooting techniques if you really try to.

If you want to become a marksman, start with the .22.

[G.I.Jew]

The SKS is a lot of fun, but even with light/medium recoil, you can develop a flinch. Become confident with the twenty-two and move up to the SKS.

[boing]

When you tell your parents that you've decided on a .22, be sure to play up the angle of wanting the big, bad SKS, but being mature enough to choose the appropriate beginner's rifle, all responsible like. You can get more guns that way. :D

On safe storage, those metal security cabinets from places like WalMart will provide pretty good security, but more importantly if your brother gets into it, he'll more than likely have to damage it in the process. That'll leave evidence you can show to your parents, and they should definitely be involved if he's messing around with a firearm without permission/supervision.

[Carlos Cabeza]

Some good advice here WS. The .22 LR bolt suggestions make the most practical sense concerning cost and low recoil/report. Will also help you to aquire and maintain the fundamentals of rifle shooting. Now if your folks are buying, I want to suggest that Remington 700VSS in .223 that someone provided a link to in an earlier post. If they're not buying it will give you something to save up for.

[LynnMassGuy]

I think an SKS is a great choice for a first rifle. It's cheap. The ammo is cheap. There is a ton of info out there... http://www.sksboards.com/forum/ . Its fairly accurate. Just make sure you know it inside out before you take it to the range. They have a few quirks you'll need to be aware of...like cosmoline gunked up firing pins causing slam-fires. A CLEAN SKS is a good rifle. Only problem is it may set you on the path of C&R addiction.

[ReadyontheRight]

Start with an accurate bolt action .22. Shoot the bejeezus out of it.

Get a good Turner sling and learn to shoot from prone, seated and standing positions. Avoid using a bench. For equipment, start out with a few sweatshirts, a winter glove on your left hand, a piece of carpeting as a shooting mat and some strong binoculars resting on a duffle bag to score. Eventually add a shooting coat, spotting scope, glove and shooting mat.

Look for local shooting competitions and get involved.

Store it with a combination trigger lock in its case hidden in your closet. Don't brag about it or wave it around. Lock up the ammo in a lock box with a combo lock. Always follow the four rules and make sure anyone you EVER shoot with does the same. If they don't follow the rules, walk away.

Also -- add another rule: open up the bolt whenever you hand a gun to anyone.

I'd like to suggest an alternative for your second rifle. You should save up some $$$ and seriously look into an M1 Garand or an AR15 that you can shoot competitively. I'm not sure of the legality of either of these in CA, but the $500 Garands from www.odcmp.com will surely go up in value as much or more than an eastern-block SKS.

With a Garand, you will have a piece of American history you can use for competition, self-defense, plinking and even large-game hunting if you are so-inclined. The 30-06 ammo will cost more, but that's because it's the best.:D

An AR15 will cost more like $1000, but the ammo will be cheaper. They may not be legal in CA. A service-grade AR is probably better than a Garand for competitions, and it has less recoil so you will shoot more accurately. ARs don't have the history and the hunting potential of a Garand, but they are the standard for highpower competitions.

Plinking with an SKS is inexpensive and great, but I have not heard of anyone using an SKS to shoot competitively (actually, the SKS would make an interesting "one-design" competition that many more shooters could afford. Hmmmmmmm.).

The "inaccuracy" of the SKS may have more to do with the sights and the cheap ammo than the rifle itself. Regardless, you can't do much more than plinking and self-defense w/ an SKS (of course, there's nothing wrong with that....)

I think high power rifle shooting is one of the best sports around. I wish I had discovered it when I was a teenager.

Whether you go the plinking or competing route, be safe and Enjoy!

[Whexican]

Wow. Let me just say you are my hero.

I am in the exact postition with my parents I have been trying to convince them to buy a rifle. Most preferable a m1 Garand.

So far they have just been shooting me down everychance they get even though they are willing to let me fire the glock/357/colt .45 SAA with my dad at the range.....who happens to be a cop. They also will let me fire with my friend and his dad the SKS, m1 garand. .44 mag, glock. remington 243. and..... some ruger pistol.

However as for purchasing a rifle they have this huge mistrust all of a sudden. So i guess ill work with that car argument and at least convince them to get me a .22 bolt action. Then i can save up for my garand when i move out of the house sigh....

I just dont get what the problem is


did i mention he will be taking me hunting next season.......

all i have to say is whiskey tengo foxtrot