357 sig vs 40 S&W


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SkinnyGrey
September 22, 2010, 02:55 PM
Which is better between the 357 sig and the 40 S&W and why?

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MichaelK
September 22, 2010, 03:13 PM
If you are a boolit caster, then the .40 is better, because cast bullets are not recommended in the .357 SIG because the neck can't grip them tight enough.

I do cast Lyman's 175 TC for the .40 and it performs very well.

Deus Machina
September 22, 2010, 03:32 PM
.40, because it's more common.

Really, I personally don't see much practical difference in them. .357 Sig might penetrate deeper, .40 might leave a bigger hole, they both do the same job.

Diggers
September 22, 2010, 03:35 PM
oopsy

Sam Cade
September 22, 2010, 03:41 PM
.357sig offers less recoil and (arguably) enhanced reliability by benefit of its bottle necked case Vis--vis the shorty forty.


Real world advantage goes to the .40 simply due to the availability of ammunition.

Diggers
September 22, 2010, 03:42 PM
Personally I'm feeling now that when you get to a point with auto pistols, I'd say 9mm and up "better" is all subjective.

Better really isn't so much about the caliber, it really comes down to issues other than if the round is an effective fight ender. Such as recoil, amount of ammo carried in the gun, cost, and issues like MichaelK brought up.

I hear .357 is costly and can be hard to find.....40 is less money and seems to be everywhere. So +1 for .40

Right now I'm thinking about a .40 G27 VS a .45 G36 for CC. Its not a ballistics issue, thats basically the same in each caliber. Its a gun size vs amount of ammo it can carry vs cost of ammo. (My department uses .40 so if I shoot it at range days ammo is basically free. :D)

So "better" is really about if YOU like shooting the .357 or the .40 more for reasons that have nothing to do with ballistics.

Go out and have fun shooting both and see what works for YOU.:)

Ala Dan
September 22, 2010, 05:15 PM
I sell more handguns chambered in .40S&W; than those chambered in
.357 SIG. While the .357 SIG is a good, defensive round; that particular
caliber had simply gone "south", here in the Heart Of Old Dixie'Land~! :uhoh:

TexasRifleman
September 22, 2010, 05:20 PM
First you have to explain what "better" means to you.

JimKirk
September 22, 2010, 05:51 PM
Funny ... that during the "shortage" I was able to buy 357 SIG at Wal mart just about any time I wanted to. They have multi boxes on the shelf any time I go.

RobMoore
September 22, 2010, 06:03 PM
I've never considered the recoil of the .357SIG to be less than the .40

If anything, the sharper recoil of the .357SIG has more affect on the shooter than a .40

Its also more expensive and harder to find, without IMO a justification in performance to balance that huge downside.

Jed Carter
September 22, 2010, 06:11 PM
I have a SIG P226 in .357SIG / .40S&W, just change the barrel and use the same everything else. Many pistols will do both, I prefer the .357SIG to the .40S&W, it just shoots better, flatter, less recoil and faster follow up shots. Don't get me wrong the .40 is good, I trust it, I just trust the .357SIG more. I have never had a malfunction of any kind in this pistol with either caliber.
As far as cost goes the range ammunition is way cheaper for .40 vs the .357, but for personal defense I really don't care how much the good stuff runs. If it is man to man then bigger may be better, but if it man to 3-4 men then maybe a lower recoil round would be the difference between walking away or not. My carry weapons are a SIG P239 in .357SIG and a CZ PCR 9mm, with the PCR making most of the trips out of the house. 8 rounds, 4 targets, under 5 seconds with a 9mm. If I could only have one caliber it would be a 9mm.

CZ223
September 22, 2010, 06:23 PM
I know that really doesn't answer your question but perhaps this will help. The 357 Sig was meant to duplicate 357 mag ballistics, specifically the 125 JHP round that had some of the best stats when it came to "one shot stops". Unfortunately, the 357 Sig has never achieved the level of popularity that the original 357 had and therefore the stats are limited. The 40, on the otherhand, was basically an overnight sensation, especially with a lot of police departments. Therefore there is plenty of data out there and it has been plenty succesful. Also, the 40 was designed to be a 10mm "light", therefore expectations were quite a bit lower. I have heard the stopping power of the 40 is equivallent to that of the 45 ACP. If that is true, it is hard to beat a package like the Glock 23 with 14 rounds of 40 at your fingertips. That didn't stop me from buying a Glock 32 in 357 Sig as well as the 23. Fourteen rounds of 357 Sig will give you "the warm and fuzzies" when you are packin that around.:D

To me, the differences between the two cartridges come down to the following:

40 S&W

Much more abundant- you can buy it anywhere
Cheaper
easier to reload
less "snappy" than the Sig

357 Sig

Seems to be capable of superior accuracy.
Better ballistics-i would rather hunt with this round than the 40
Also I believe a carbine in this caliber would be a real hit witha lot of people.

Dave P
September 22, 2010, 06:32 PM
Skinny, that is a silly question. Everyone knows the 357SIG in a SIG226 platform is un-beatable. No debate. Everyone agrees.

Any other issues I can resolve for you?

DasFriek
September 22, 2010, 07:27 PM
They both suck, The .45acp is where its at!
.357 sig suffers like the 10mm does, Ammo cost and availability limit its popularity.

Lakeshore
September 22, 2010, 07:51 PM
Which is better between the 357 sig and the 40 S&W and why?
Shoot both from either a Glock 22 or Glock 31 courtesy of interchangeable barrels (Lone Wolf etc.).

Another difference not mentioned yet: 357 Sig seems to be louder. I always wear double ear protection for that one.

Sir Aardvark
September 22, 2010, 10:44 PM
Here's a post from the past asking the same thing...

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=56038

Here is some interesting data on the .357 SIG:

http://www.handguninfo.com/Archive/www.Pete-357.com/one.shot.stops.htm

To somewhat paraphrase a section of text from the above link:

Back when Ammolabs.com had it's information posted, they reported that when they tested the 357 Sig Winchester Ranger and Remington Golden Saber ammo, it did something only the 10mm Silvertip has been able to do. Both of these rounds cracked the top plate that holds the gelatin blocks in place during testing. Its obvious that these 357 Sig rounds dump more energy into 12 14 inches of gelatin than most other rounds he has tested.

When he reinforced the top plates, the same two 357 Sig rounds mentioned above then cracked the lower plate. The best 9mm loads, such as the Ranger 127gr +P+ barely created a ripple in the gelatin in comparison.

The 357 SIG is fun to shoot and actually offers advantages over both the .40 and 9mm that neither can match independently.

gym
September 22, 2010, 10:53 PM
I just don't care for either, I go with either 9mm or 45. The differences can be discussed all day and anyone given enough time can prove they are right. It's like discussing religion. The 9mm has been pumped up full of steroids, and is just as capable as any of the two you mentioned, I like 45's because they make "big holes". I also find I shoot them better than any other round. So it's apples to oranges, either one will get the job done.

9mmepiphany
September 23, 2010, 01:03 AM
I've compared the two cartridges in question in two platforms. Two Sig 229Rs and a Glock 22 with a 357Sig barrel.

I found the 357Sig to be:
1. more accurate
2. to have faster recovery between shots

The thing that brought the 357Sig to my attention was a bulletin advising officers about it's ability to defeat soft body armor.

the most comfortable 357Sig I've handled was the SigPro, but I've heard raves about the S&W M&P

Diggers
September 23, 2010, 05:28 AM
9mmepiphany, where did you read the sig .357 would go through body armor? Seems to me that its a pistol round with pistol level energy. I don't see that happening unless someone is using some fancy ammo, but then pretty much any caliber would defeat soft body armor then. Most level III armor will stop a .44 mag which has quite a bit more energy than the Sig 357.

I read the same thing about the 5.7x28 out of a FN fiveseven handgun. Turned out to be pretty much bull with standard ammo, though they do make some AP rounds for police and millitary in that caliber.

Full Metal Jacket
September 23, 2010, 05:36 AM
the FBI tested a 357sig round, and compared it to the GD 124gr +P 9mm. they found it to be no more effective. they had equal penetration and expansion.

there's other 357sig rounds that will slightly outperform the 9mm i'm sure, but not by much. certainly not enough to justify the cost, or noise/blast. it's only 100fps faster-tops.


if you want to really step up a level in a defensive auto, get a 10mm glock and load it with full power swampfox ammo :D

Manco
September 23, 2010, 10:41 AM
Which is better between the 357 sig and the 40 S&W and why?

Much depends on bullet design and specific loads, but generally .357 SIG is better at penetrating barriers, while .40 S&W pokes a bigger, often deeper hole into flesh, and can still penetrate barriers better than most people--even LEOs--would ever need. .40 S&W is usually more effective after penetrating barriers, as well--it just can't penetrate all of the barriers that .357 SIG can.

When barriers are not involved (aside from clothing), some contend that .357 SIG is more effective because of the "shock" (often described as hydrostatic, which is nonsensical) that it imparts due to its velocity and kinetic energy, but I don't buy that because it's not nearly energetic enough to have such an effect (and in comparative terms .40 S&W isn't that far behind in energy anyway).

.357 Sig might penetrate deeper, .40 might leave a bigger hole, they both do the same job.

I agree that they pretty much do the same job overall, but the subject of penetration is more complex than most would imagine. .357 SIG is generally more penetrative in hard, dry materials, but its velocity is within a range where velocity-penetration graphs start to look weird and non-linear when soft, wet media are involved. It seems to transfer energy and momentum faster than .40 S&W, and will generally penetrate less in such media unless expansion (in the case of hollow-point bullets) is more limited by the design of the bullet.

Most of us have probably heard about the phenomenon of 5.56x45mm rounds overpenetrating but doing relatively little damage (in comparison to their potential) when their velocities are too low, and pretty much exploding inside the body when their velocities are high enough. The same principle applies here, only that much less energy is involved and greater penetration for a given level of expansion is desirable (which favors the heavier, slower .40 S&W, in my opinion).

.357sig offers less recoil

But more blast & flash.

and (arguably) enhanced reliability by benefit of its bottle necked case Vis--vis the shorty forty.

Agreed in theory, although I'd like to see whether this is provable in practice to a significant degree.

Funny ... that during the "shortage" I was able to buy 357 SIG at Wal mart just about any time I wanted to. They have multi boxes on the shelf any time I go.

It's a quirk of supply & demand, I guess. Because the demand for .40 S&W is usually much higher, generally a greater selection and supply is made available by retailers. When demand is normal, supply tries to stay just ahead of it, but when demand is extremely high, supply inevitably cannot keep up, which has a greater impact on the products that are most in demand. It was relatively easy to do a full run of .357 SIG to keep up with its more limited demand (and if its demand were ever overestimated by manufacturers, then they probably had a decent supply in their warehouses), but there was just not enough time, equipment, and manpower to keep up with the demand for the more popular calibers. Adding to this issue was the fact that a fair number of people who carry or otherwise use .357 SIG for defensive purposes actually shoot more .40 S&W or 9mm FMJ practice ammo (through conversion barrels) because they're cheaper and usually more available (when demand is normal).

Skinny, that is a silly question. Everyone knows the 357SIG in a SIG226 platform is un-beatable. No debate. Everyone agrees.

That's absolutely correct--you don't even need to aim, or pull the trigger for that matter. ;)

the FBI tested a 357sig round, and compared it to the GD 124gr +P 9mm. they found it to be no more effective. they had equal penetration and expansion.

That's in ballistic gelatin after passing through the various barriers specified in their test protocols--I guess the extra energy of .357 SIG just got dumped somewhere in these cases, eventually being converted into a small amount of heat (in other words, it went to waste). However, if stronger barriers were used in the tests, then .357 SIG would begin to pull away from all of the other autoloader service calibers. The question is whether this advantage is enough to overcome the advantages of the other calibers (usually decided on an individual basis): 9mm is easier for many to shoot well, and .40 S&W and .45 ACP are somewhat more effective per round even after penetrating the specified barriers. Some would argue yes, although the FBI test protocols are considered by many to be rather tough, as well as highly representative of real-world conditions.

md7
September 23, 2010, 11:18 AM
they both work.



.40 SW is a more common round.

Waywatcher
September 23, 2010, 11:29 AM
If you reload, or plan to reload, the .40 S&W is far superior.

Granted, full length sizing is recommended, but at least with straight wall cases like .40 you can use carbide dies! (.357 Sig you have to process like a rifle case) Also, the teeny case neck doesn't hold onto bullets nearly as well as straight wall cases.

So if you care at all about reloading now or in the future, get the .40 S&W.

GLOOB
September 23, 2010, 03:27 PM
The whole idea of a one-shot stop is flawed. The statistics are meaningless. Sure, 40 years ago there were plenty of one-shot stops, mostly by police officers. Why? Because guns only held 6 rounds. People were generally a heck of a lot shorter and thinner. And bad guys were more likely to surrender (and survive) when shot. There will never be a round to match the .357 Silvertip in this era. Even the .50AE wouldn't do it.

9mmepiphany
September 23, 2010, 03:31 PM
9mmepiphany, where did you read the sig .357 would go through body armor?

I didn't. I said that the round perked my interest when my department sent around a Training Bulletin about a warning they had received from the manufacturer of our soft body armor of the possible danger presented by the 357Sig cartridge.

They were in the process of conducting test of the validity of their concern...they had received field reports of problems...and were warning end users in the meantime. It was much like the warning issued at one time concerning the degrading protection of older armor.

charlesb_la
September 23, 2010, 09:13 PM
Check out this podcast.

http://proarmspodcast.com/2010/07/11/055-were-getting-the-band-back-together-to-discuss-the-357sig-cartridge/

For some interesting info on the .357Sig from Massad Ayoob and some other firearms experts.

Skylerbone
September 24, 2010, 12:01 AM
If you want to see impressive gelatin testing look for Lock 'n Load on the History Channel. Watched R. Lee Ermey (the Gunny from "Full Metal Jacket") shoot a .38SPL, .45ACP and .44MAG in to a block with slow motion cameras capturing the disruption of each. The .45 bested the .38 with about double the vortex and the .44? It punched through the block which looked to be about 2' in length, then threw it off the table end for end.

Some people put far too much reliance in autoloader calibers without really thinking about the broader range of what's available. Ever hear of anyone needing a double-tap (OOOOH BUZZ WORD!) with a .44Mag? Dirty Harry didn't...

gofastman
September 24, 2010, 12:45 AM
Ever hear of anyone needing a double-tap (OOOOH BUZZ WORD!) with a .44Mag? Dirty Harry didn't...
Absolutely.
a .44 to the gut is more than likely gonna take longer to drop someone than a .22 to the head.
Guns are not death rays, no mater what the caliber (within reason of course)

REAPER4206969
September 24, 2010, 12:58 AM
Massad Ayoob and some other firearms experts.
Ayoob has little credibility when it comes to ballistics.

with slow motion cameras capturing the disruption of each.
Temporary stretch cavity is meaningless in handgun calibers short of the super magnums.

Diggers
September 24, 2010, 05:51 AM
9mm,
I see. Yeah I get those to read too, thats where I read about the 5.7X28 going through vests. :scrutiny: I always hold a grain of salt in my hand as I read.

dom1104
September 24, 2010, 06:44 AM
Ayoob has little credibility when it comes to ballistics.


Temporary stretch cavity is meaningless in handgun calibers short of the super magnums.
LOL!

But some guy named REAPER from Idaho on the other hand...he knows his stuff.

I love the internet.

Oceans
September 24, 2010, 07:33 AM
In defensive handgun shooting situations, the 9mm with equal bullet weights and construction will do the same thing that the .357 Sig will do(achieve adequate penetration, and expansion), and do it with less recoil/blast. Thereby giving more control to the shooter for follow up shots. Now for a hunting Ctg. The .357 Sig will shoot much flatter than the 9mm, and would seem to have the edge. Reliability is not an issue here, as modern quality 9mm semi-automatics have prove reliable beyond doubt. Availability is a funny question, if there is an ammo crunch again, you wont be able to find any 9mm, but you will be able to find .357 Sig, as not many people seem to have them, and the gun stores stock the Ctg.(at least quality gun shops do)

Manco
September 24, 2010, 07:42 AM
LOL!

But some guy named REAPER from Idaho on the other hand...he knows his stuff.

I love the internet.

The participants in the podcast, whoever they may be, didn't exactly give well-reasoned arguments, in my opinion--they were just going on a small number of anecdotes, which themselves are completely subject to bias, and matching them up with their own preconceived notions, it seems. I don't want to be too harsh because what they did was well within the general spirit of the podcast--just casually making a few off-the-cuff observations--but it takes a bit more than that to convince some of us, no matter who is speaking.

ET
September 24, 2010, 09:38 AM
Ayoob has little credibility when it comes to ballistics.

I shoot the 357sig regularly. I see what the 357sig round does compared to other rounds. I chose to carry it after a lot of range time with it. I don't need someone else to tell me what it can/can't do. I've seen it for myself. I venture to guess that most of the posters who doubt what Ayoob and others say about the 357sig have not had any significant trigger time with it. The podcast was a discussion about what those LEO's experienced on a daily basis. Real world experiences speak volumes. Reading what a round can/can't do on the internet doesn't begin to tell the whole story. The participants on the podcast were talking about their experiences. I'd value that information highly. Most of the things I read on the internet from anonymous posters I'd take with a grain of salt

Skylerbone
September 24, 2010, 11:28 AM
I guess that sounds reasonable...a man having his guts blown out his back is likely to continue pressing the action while the guy with the .22 in his head will drop as it blinds him and disrupts his CNS and makes Swiss cheese out of his brain.

Comparing calibers in this manner is fruitless. You may as well say the .22 did more damage because the .44 missed.

Full Metal Jacket
September 24, 2010, 01:39 PM
But some guy named REAPER from Idaho on the other hand...he knows his stuff.

he goes by the FBI test protocols. so, some outfit named the FBI, from quantico, knows their stuff.


and you? what are your sources? :scrutiny:

JohnBiltz
September 24, 2010, 03:46 PM
I'm a big believer in what really happens in actual incidents over testing in a test medium. Sometimes testing gets it wrong. The .357 Sig has been used by a number of police forces and while one or two incidents is anecdotal the more incidents there are the more it stops being anecdotal and starts reflecting reality. I think the .357 Sig is at that point now. I think there is some kind of synergy going on there that testing is not picking up. Not that I'm planning on buying and carrying one right now. But I was thinking about it and bought another G26. But I did it for reasons other than stopping power.

RobMoore
September 24, 2010, 06:22 PM
I think there is some kind of synergy going on there that testing is not picking up

or there is other variables influencing the results that the tests eliminate, thereby making it actually scientific instead of a crapshoot.

Can you provide some sources for these numerous incidents? I didn't think the .357SIG was all that popular in LEO. DHS bought into it, but most agencies carry the .40.

Also, the incidents I've heard about, the .357SIG didn't seem to perform any better than any other SD round, 9mm included.

Grey Morel
September 24, 2010, 07:31 PM
My preference is for 40S&W - it penetrates plenty as it is. I think the 357 Sig is too much for many situations (thus the reason LE phased it out)

REAPER4206969
September 24, 2010, 10:02 PM
But some guy named REAPER from Idaho on the other hand...he knows his stuff.
Ayoob is a well known proponent of the Marshal & Sanow/"energy dump"/larger TSC and shallow penetration theory.

JohnBiltz
September 25, 2010, 05:30 AM
There are several State Police carrying them US Marshals now and from what I've read they have done well, very well. A number of one shot stops and no one seems unhappy with them. Frankly the US Marshals carry a lot of weight with me. Daily they probably deal with more hard core felons than any other agency.

REAPER4206969
September 25, 2010, 06:43 AM
Frankly the US Marshals carry a lot of weight with me.
The U.S. Marshals use the Glock model 22 and 23 (.40). You're thinking of the U.S. Air Marshals (SIG P229/P250 .357.)

Skylerbone
September 25, 2010, 11:47 AM
And they deal with more hard core travelers than any other agency; ).

This thread is starting to remind me of those "how long will my new Glock last?" postings. If you're not shooting at soldiers and police, chances are you'll never encounter body armor or someone with a 6' deep chest cavity. Ideally an attacker would stop on command. Second to that he would stop with one shot. Since that doesn't happen all the time we train ourselves to pull the trigger until it goes click not bang. Accuracy with those shots will prove more vital than caliber choice.

surfinUSA
September 25, 2010, 04:46 PM
I've seen a number of individuals shot and killed with both the 9mm and the 40 S&W. The 40 seems to be able to do this with one round better than the 9mm (although that may just be just that the officers shot more and quicker with the 9mm). I'm not an Medical Examiner so I'm just saying what I've seen with no medical education to back it up (but dead is dead and you don't have to be an ME to know that).

I've never seen anyone shot or shot and killed witha 357 sig. To me it just seems to be an over priced hard to find answer to a question that wasn't asked as the 9mm +p , 9mm+p+ and the 40 S&W work just fine, are cheaper (even in premium loads) and alot easier to find.

Keep in mind I'm a big 10mm fan, so the fact that the 357sig is harder to find isn't a deciding factor to me. But all things considered I'd take a 40 sub compact like the G27 or a 45 like the sig P220 to work before I take my big, heavy, hard to conceal G20 in 10mm. I don't own a 357 sig, one hard to find expensive round (the 10mm) is enough for me.

Manco
September 25, 2010, 06:32 PM
I shoot the 357sig regularly. I see what the 357sig round does compared to other rounds. I chose to carry it after a lot of range time with it. I don't need someone else to tell me what it can/can't do. I've seen it for myself. I venture to guess that most of the posters who doubt what Ayoob and others say about the 357sig have not had any significant trigger time with it.

While I admittedly do not have much trigger time with .357 SIG, I've had quite a bit with .357 Magnum, but without actually shooting people I don't see what shooting a lot of rounds is supposed to tell me.

The podcast was a discussion about what those LEO's experienced on a daily basis. Real world experiences speak volumes. Reading what a round can/can't do on the internet doesn't begin to tell the whole story. The participants on the podcast were talking about their experiences. I'd value that information highly. Most of the things I read on the internet from anonymous posters I'd take with a grain of salt

And I stand by my statement that the podcast discussion was little more than vague, mystified reasoning based on some anecdotes. I can accept that they don't know exactly why .357 SIG does what it supposedly does, but at one point somebody said whatever that is doesn't show up in gelatin tests. Now, I'd be the first to say that gelatin is NOT living human flesh, but if anything it exaggerates the effects of bullets, since it is less elastic and resilient than most types of flesh. Most of us are well aware of the 5.56x45mm/.223 Remington velocity threshold that determines what type of damage these rounds are going to do--either explosive fragmentation or just a small wound channel--but we can easily see the difference in gelatin. .357 SIG doesn't look much different from the other service calibers in gelatin, and this makes sense because it's not all that different on paper, either--even the 165 grain .40 S&W Ranger-Ts in my cabinet have nearly the same kinetic energy as typical .357 SIG defensive loads.

I fail to see where the so-called "lighting bolt effect" comes from. That is, unless some loads in other calibers have it, too. Ayoob wrote in The Gun Digest Book of Combat Handgunnery regarding a 180 grain .40 S&W load: "I've run across several shootings with Winchester's talon-style Ranger loads. All but one stayed in the body. All have opened up exactly like a Winchester publicity photo. All have stopped hostilities immediately." I guess he thinks that it has "stopping power" too, based on real experiences. I guess that .357 SIG is not so special if .40 S&W stops them cold every time, too. :scrutiny:

Not to rag on Ayoob, though. In the aforementioned book, his reasoning is more complete and sound than it is in the podcast, understandably, and he's well aware, as we all should be, that different "authoritative" sources will often disagree with one another. Some of us are more inclined to embrace anecdotal evidence from real shootings with all of its warts and imperfections, while others tend to want to make sense of it all through studying certain aspects of wounding and analyzing controlled lab test results that show comparative terminal performance. Using both sources would be advisable, I think, but be aware of their limitations--even with information that comes from real world events (lots of random factors and likely some bias involved in each case).

ttus
September 26, 2010, 02:58 PM
I Haven't seen one post on Ammo, to the effect, ALWAYS practice with,

what you carry. There isn't anything , more important than YOU.

So when you have practiced with the same ammo you carry. you are more

able to put it where it needs to be.

For what it is worth department.

ttus (aka) Bill

cougar1717
September 27, 2010, 02:45 PM
Which caliber? - it's the shooter's choice. One says he likes apples better because they're crispy. Another says he prefers oranges because they're juicy. Our choices are between a .40 and (basically) a .40 necked down to .355. These two are so close, the argued differences amount to hair splitting. A little smaller, a little faster; a little bigger, a little slower... we could talk for ages on this stuff.

Sam Cade
September 27, 2010, 04:05 PM
I would like to have a mini-mauser in .357 sig..... that would be just dandy...

just sayin':)

ny32182
September 27, 2010, 04:37 PM
.40:

-Cheaper and more available in all forms (brass is pretty much common enough to be "free", bullets are more available, factory loadings are no contest)
-Easier to reload
-Lower recoil (not sure what loads you guys are shooting where 357sig is less, but that definitely has not been my experience with factory defensive loads in both)

.357sig:

-Got to pay for brass, and lube the cases.
-Flatter trajectory...? Who cares; you aren't going to notice at any reasonable handgun range.
-More blast if that matters to you.
-Should work fine when it hits the target. So should .40 and 9mm, and .45, and....

While I think 357sig is a fun cartridge, if you are trying to say it is superior to its peers based on some factor that can't be measured in testing, I believe that is the sign that you've been consuming the sweet red non-carbonated beverage.

Manco
September 27, 2010, 07:13 PM
-Lower recoil (not sure what loads you guys are shooting where 357sig is less, but that definitely has not been my experience with factory defensive loads in both)

The only .357 SIG rounds I've shot were factory reloads, I believe, so they were probably comparable to standard practice loads. Everybody feels recoil differently, so we can't always count on that, but at least by the numbers .40 S&W loads almost always have greater momentum, and therefore recoil. Only the very hottest .357 SIG loads will just about match common heavy-bullet .40 S&W factory loads in this respect, but not exceed them. And I've never seen a .357 SIG load that, on paper, can match a hot .40 S&W load in recoil. To me .40 S&W actually feels heavier, but that doesn't bother me as much as the blast from .357 SIG (fun at the range, but not necessarily in actual use in defense).

While I think 357sig is a fun cartridge, if you are trying to say it is superior to its peers based on some factor that can't be measured in testing, I believe that is the sign that you've been consuming the sweet red non-carbonated beverage.

What does Hawaiian Punch have to do with this? ;)

It seems that you have the sheer audacity to claim that LE professionals may actually be drinking the Kool-Aid! :eek: Guess what folks, it happens--even to the best and most respected sometimes.

wow6599
September 27, 2010, 08:28 PM
Just make it the original .357 Sig for me........the 9x25 Dillon.
Apples to Oranges ;)

fletchbutt152
October 2, 2010, 11:27 PM
Don't know what you're thinkin' for the gun, but the 10mm is better than either!

possum
October 3, 2010, 04:02 AM
i prefer the .40 and there are several reasons why,
1) it is common, and no where near as expensive as 357 sig factory ammo.
2) i reload .40 and have been for years.
3) the .357 sig cartridge has a bottle kneck and that is one more thing to worry about when reloading.

Kingofthehill
October 3, 2010, 09:08 AM
I got a .357 Sig M&P for an amazing price and i had to jump on it. for $60 you can get a factory M&P .40 barrel which is a true drop in with no other parts necessary.

I now use the .357 Sig for self defense/carry/home protection while i use the .40 for range fun.

.357 sig in my experiences has shown an amazing round. i mean jaw dropping!... compared to .38/9/40/45.

In all my testing which is very very non scientific, the Gold Dot .357 sig has just been phenomenal!...

im totally sold on the .357 sig. just as i am with the 10mm.

Seems that most opinions here come down to ammo cost. Well, my life is worth it :)

JOe

ny32182
October 3, 2010, 12:02 PM
The only .357 SIG rounds I've shot were factory reloads, I believe, so they were probably comparable to standard practice loads. Everybody feels recoil differently, so we can't always count on that, but at least by the numbers .40 S&W loads almost always have greater momentum, and therefore recoil. Only the very hottest .357 SIG loads will just about match common heavy-bullet .40 S&W factory loads in this respect, but not exceed them. And I've never seen a .357 SIG load that, on paper, can match a hot .40 S&W load in recoil. To me .40 S&W actually feels heavier, but that doesn't bother me as much as the blast from .357 SIG (fun at the range, but not necessarily in actual use in defense).

I think you'll find that when you have two bullets of equal momentum and all other factors being equal, the heavier one will yield less recoil. Therefore most competitors that need to make 125k power factor with a 9mm will use a 147gr bullet to do it. Power factor is a pure momentum calculation of weight(related closely enough to mass in this case) times velocity; different than "energy" that is quoted for most factory loads.

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