A new pearl of wisdom from our Walmart "friend"...


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Sheslinger
December 14, 2003, 01:12 AM
Another helpful hint from our Walmart gun counter clerk who is an FFL holder. See the previous one here.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36286&highlight=germany

So, I am at Walmart, shopping for gifts, and just happen to be at the gun counter. I look down and don't see any .357 SIG ammo. So, I ask the guy, "Do you carry any .357 SIG ammo?" He says that yes, they do, to which I ask, ok, am I looking straight at it and not seeing it. The guy (FFL holder) points to .357 MAGNUM and says, here it is. I say, no, you did not hear me, I said .357 SIG. He says, oh, it's the same thing. I typically would not feel like educating but there was a guy filling out the yellow form at the counter and I did not want him to be the next victim of stupidity. So I proceeded to say, no, one is a pistol round, and one is a revolver round, and you cannot use them interchangeably. So the guy says, oh, I was always told they were the same thing. So, I walked away and almost wished the gun buyer good luck. OK, thinking that all guns are made in Webemakingdemaldorf, Germany is one thing, but selling someone wrong ammo is plain dangerous. Should I go back and talk to a manager of sporting goods? My fear is that he might be the manager.

Sheslinger

P.S. If moderators feel that this belongs in Handguns, please feel free to move it. Thanks

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pax
December 14, 2003, 02:21 AM
I'm not one for tilting at windmills, but that is bad enough that it might almost be worth your time to try to fix it.

pax

The problem with most folks ain't their ignorance, it's that they know so much that just ain't so. -- Mark Twain

BluesBear
December 14, 2003, 02:25 AM
Good thing you didn't use the terms Rimless or Bottleneck for the danger that his head might have imploded. :banghead:


Either way all of the .357 magnum and .357 SIG comes from Wemakealltheammostan. They just put it in different boxes. :rolleyes:


BTW what makes you think the guy behind the counter has a FFL?

Sylvilagus Aquaticus
December 14, 2003, 02:29 AM
You might explain to the store manager or department manager in your most diplomatic way that it'd be easier to train their employees now than pay litigious attorneys later after selling the wrong ammunition to a customer who had a blowup or worse.

Regards,
Rabbit.

Sheslinger
December 14, 2003, 02:39 AM
He told us one time he had an FFL. Not sure how we got on the subject. But, according to him, it was the ATF that told him that ALL guns were made in one factory in Germany and they are all the same gun.

Wemakealltheammostan. I love it.

Sheslinger

Sylvilagus Aquaticus
December 14, 2003, 02:47 AM
Another reason why I'll always be happy to go to one of the fine locally-owned firearms emporiums or Cheaper Than Dirt than Wal-Mart. I decided that I could do without shopping there some time back. I do have the luxury of not shopping there, I've worked hard for it, and I can exercise it.

It does sound like I'm missing out on some first-rate comedy acts, though. Thre's no cover charge or 2 drink minimum still, is there?

Regards,
Rabbit.

Sheslinger
December 14, 2003, 02:50 AM
We do buy a lot of our ammo at local gun shops but we try to patronize Walmart for selling ammo and guns. Could be worse and they could just stop selling it, like KMart.

BluesBear
December 14, 2003, 03:05 AM
If he has his own FFL why is he working at Wal-Mart? :confused:

If WM management finds out he could lose his job for being employed by, or engaging in, a competing business.

natedog
December 14, 2003, 03:07 AM
Good thing the rounds are diffferent sizes, I don't think it would be possible to get a KB in either a revolver or pistol like that...I doubt a .357 Sig would chamber in a .357 Magnum (it would probably slide out of the cylinder and I don't think that you could fit a .357 Magnum in a .357 chamber.

Zach S
December 14, 2003, 03:43 AM
The guys at the counter generally dont know what theyre doing because they dont need to, the customers gennerally know what they're talking about. There always exceptions, take for example the new shooter about to buy some 9x23 for their new G19, and not to forget the guys that send their wives that dont shoot and dont know about guns (and vise versa), who are about to buy the wrong ammo.

Anyway, anyone with common sense could figure out something's wrong if they got .357 Sig for thier magnum or vise-versa. Although, with the abundance of warning lables on everything it seems most ppl lack common sense.

Another thing is that all ammo sales are final. No refund, no exchange. So some advice: If your sending someone to buy ammo, give him/her and empty box to take with them.

Wanna have some fun? take an empty magazine with you, when you hear "HI. Can I help you?" hand the mag over and say "I need a refill" In my experiance, handgun mags get a blank stare, pre-ban rifle mags may cause the clerck's eyes to pop out of his head. However, the was one time where the guy looked at me and said "Thompson, eh? I guess you want the valuepack?" Needless to say, the blank stare was on my face that day.

Nate, I may be wrong, but I think the 357 sig is in bottlnecked .40 brass, so it wont even fit in the cylinder of a .357 mag.

Quickloader
December 14, 2003, 05:11 AM
No excuse for such a level of ignorance; although it’s very common finding partially- or even completely ignorant people in the selling business, there should be a minimal standard to be expected in the gun and ammo trade; I heared over more stupid comments by gunshop sales people than I like to remember, especially when it comes to ammo, style of: I need shotgun ammo! Yeah, which one? Uh, I had the green package last time? Is it this one (holding up a box of 12GA Mag shells)? Ah, yeah, I think so? Deal perfect! And then people wonder if they hear about this dude who tried shooting a live 20GA shell out of his prized German OU with the appropriate 12GA shell behind it, ending up with a split foreend, nicely cracked-open under barrel right after the chamber and surprisingly no more body damage than a sore hand and ringing ears…..
Or the young shop clerk entering the range in a hurry with a customer’s gun to test and, without paying attention if everybody’s ready and wearing hearing protection, opens fire immediately and emptying the magazine, making me jump towards the ceiling, and when politely confronted with the suggestion of taking some looks around him the next time, he only gives me a stupid look, apparently not having the slightest idea what the the hell I’m talking about…
:cuss: :fire:
I could go on and on…. The few times I felt the necessity of (note: as politely and reserved as possible) intervening or giving commentaries in gun shops, the dudes, or gals for that matter, more often looked at me in a disgusted way, obviously thinking I’d be better to shut up because THEY would know what they’re talking about, than giving credit to what I was talking about. :barf: :barf: :barf:

I think some written comments to the management of the big stores like Wally’s, addressing proper training of their gun sales personel in general would be in order. The most basic advice from an NRA instructor could improve the standard a great deal, IMO. This would be in their own best interest, just think about the next time someone like Michael Moore feels the need to pull some pants...... :neener:

Quickloader

BlkHawk73
December 14, 2003, 08:44 AM
When our first walmart open up here years ago, my brother went in and asked the clerk for .357 maximum ammo. The clerk looked behind the counter, didn't see any and responded, "no, don't see any but we might have something else that'll fit instead." :what: The mgr was notified and that person was not in that dept any more! :D

sasnofear
December 14, 2003, 10:07 AM
if they are selling firearms and ammo, then they should have the proper people capable of dealing with firearms customers.

c_yeager
December 14, 2003, 10:18 AM
When our first walmart open up here years ago, my brother went in and asked the clerk for .357 maximum ammo. The clerk looked behind the counter, didn't see any and responded, "no, don't see any but we might have something else that'll fit instead."

Wouldnt .38 special and/or .357 magnum both fit in the .357 maximum chambered revolver? Heck my local shop doesnt even carry .357max. It actually sounds like the guy may have been the only competant person to work a wallmart gun counter. Shame you got him canned.

kentucky bucky
December 14, 2003, 11:30 AM
If you ask to see the manager instead of an idiot cash register flunkie, do you think they will say "same thing".:D

BHPshooter
December 14, 2003, 12:15 PM
I happen to believe that if they're going to comply with the dumb@$$ policies of "is it for a rifle or a handgun?" then they ought to have someone behind the counter that knows what the crap is going on. It's not just an annoyance thing, IT'S A SAFETY ISSUE.

Yet another reason I'm boycotting Wal*Mart.

Wes

BlkHawk73
December 14, 2003, 12:25 PM
Wouldnt .38 special and/or .357 magnum both fit in the .357 maximum chambered revolver? Heck my local shop doesnt even carry .357max. It actually sounds like the guy may have been the only competant person to work a wallmart gun counter.

Yes, .38 special and .357 mag would've worked but the clerk seemed lost and confused where he was. His tone of voice suggested that. If he did indeed intend on offering usuable ammo, he'd have likely continued with the suggestion and offer one of those two cartridges. One has to wonder if he'd have sold someone else the wrong ammo. There's no need for ignoranc eof safetly behind a gun/ammo counter.

Sheslinger
December 14, 2003, 01:58 PM
The guys at the counter generally dont know what theyre doing because they dont need to, the customers gennerally know what they're talking about.
I would have expected this maybe from a regular clerk but not from someone who is an FFL holder and should know better. Not only is he telling Walmart customers lies but presumably his own customers too.

Bill Hook
December 14, 2003, 02:15 PM
I doubt the guy is an FFL holder w/o seeing his license.

Matt G
December 14, 2003, 02:35 PM
Agreed that the danger was not inherent with either .357 Mag ammo in .357 Sigs, or with anything that would fit into a .357 Maximum.

Now, if you had something like Tamara's UGLY shouded hammer alloy S&W .44 Spl, and asked for some .44 Spl loads (200 gr. only.), and got a box of .44 Magnums (which will fit; I tried it with 300g GA Arms JSP [Rhino Rollers] loaded to 1250 fps :what: ), you would have transformed a handy 5-shot carry gun into a grenade. :uhoh:

bvmjethead
December 14, 2003, 03:16 PM
Why can't people just say"I don't know" anymore? Why do they have to make themselves out to be even more an idiot by making statements about something they have no idea about.

I've been guilty of it in the past, but do my best to shut up about things I have no knowledge of.

What's the saying..............open your mouth and remove all doubt............when talking about stupidity.

Ignorance is OK, everybody is ignorant about a great deal of things, stupidity is something totally different.

duckfoot
December 14, 2003, 03:31 PM
This is why I started rolling my own ammo.

Bob F.
December 14, 2003, 03:52 PM
Consider: many of these people are not really trainable-not because they're inherrently stupid, they just don't care-have NO interest (well, some may be stupid, too). If we start pushing training to avoid litigation, Wally will probably quit selling guns and ammo, rather than try to do the impossible.

Maybe we just need to look out for ourselves when talking to salespeople, just like home security of personal protection!

El Tejon
December 14, 2003, 04:07 PM
Man, THR needs a Wal-Mart forum.:rolleyes:

Why does one have to ask for ammo???:confused: Why not just pick it off the shelf and pay for it?:confused:

Why all these silly problems with Wal-Mart?:confused: Are there bears working there?:uhoh:

George Hill
December 14, 2003, 04:38 PM
You guys are shooting fish in a barrel.

Zundfolge
December 14, 2003, 04:42 PM
I'm always surprised about people's expectations of WalMart.

I bought the oil filter for my 1970 Porsche 914 from WalMart, but I don't expect the guy in the automotive department to know how to do a valve adjustment on the Porsche, nor do I expect them to carry other Porsche parts like a wiper relay or brake pads (both parts they sell for your Chevy or Dodge).

They also sell TVs and stereos, but I don't complain that they don't have Klipsch speakers or someone working behind the counter who understands something like Impedance or what a low-pass crossover is or other technical stuff.

They sell groceries there too, but I don't complain that I can't find Japanese lobster in their seafood section, or Ice Age Brie in their deli case.

Why would I expect the guy at ths Sporting Goods counter to be a gun expert, or carry .357sig (or 10mm, or some other less common caliber)?


The things I buy at WalMart I buy because frankly they have the best price on them ... if I need some sort of technical assistance, or some product thats outside the mainstream, I don't go there.

Besides that, I've been to plenty of gun stores where the guy behind the counter doesn't know squat too ... or they don't carry ammo for my Makarov.

BowStreetRunner
December 14, 2003, 05:01 PM
the lack of knowledge on the part of the clerk is evidence of the lack of effort on the part of the company and or store manager to effectively service the gun buying public
i think if you want to sell guns and ammo, you should put some more effort into it
now a Wally World i have patronzied in MO is very good about gun and ammo stuff, and ive never been asked if its for a rifle or a handgun :)
BSR

El Tejon
December 14, 2003, 05:07 PM
I've never had a problem with Wal-Mart. I go to the ammo department, pick the ammo I want off the shelf, pay for it up front and then leave.

I don't expect any gum-chewing, hat-wearer, mouth-breather to know his over carbed backside from a .357ZIG or a .375 H&H. You buy ammo from the Meg-A-Lo Mart/Try-N-Save because the stuff is cheap and readily available. Period.

Bill Hook
December 14, 2003, 05:13 PM
El T -

Never been to a Wallyworld that let you pick anything up yourself but shotgun shells.

El Tejon
December 14, 2003, 05:21 PM
Wallyworlds around here do. Just in there yesterday, I-65 and State Road 26 in Lafayette, to buy underwear (that's just how exciting my life is) and picked up a bunch of 9mm and .45. Right off the shelf, the old guy behind the sporting goods counter/island was showing a rifle to someone else and told me to pay up front.

No mess, no fuss. No endless whining about calibler, no endless whining over "rifle or handgun" prompts, no endless whining over the quality of mouth-breather in a blue vest. Grabbed my gear, paid for it and then left.

Do not understand all the drama over a friggin' discount den. However, there is a warehouse of stuff that I do not get (bears, zombie, Wal-Marts, other imaginary problems).:D

spacemanspiff
December 14, 2003, 05:28 PM
the walmart i go to has a great sporting goods staff. they all know their stuff and are great to talk with. one of the managers has a ffl, and for a fee will obtain whatever a buyer wishes. but at 15% of the cost of the gun as his fee, i have yet to utilize his services in that regard.

when i bought my marlin papoose there, the clerk was 'oooohing' and 'ahhhing' over it, saying 'this would be great for my kids!' after the paperwork was filled out and she was ringing it up, she asks 'okay, you'll need some ammo with that, right?'
me, i'm speechless cause i've always heard that walmart will NEVER sell ammo for the gun you are buying on that particular day. i say 'ummm, well no, i already have a couple bricks, but isnt that against store policy?'
she looked at me as if i was positively nuts.

artherd
December 14, 2003, 06:49 PM
I love it when I buy .30-06, and they ask me if it's for a handgun.

Yeah, sure, handgun OF DOOM!

Knife_Sniper
December 14, 2003, 08:02 PM
Yesterday I attempted to buy ammunition for a carbine rifle chambered in 9mm.

Store policiy does not ask if its pistol ammunition, but asks the owner/purchaser if the ammo is going to be used in a rifle.

The old man working told me that I needed to be 21 to buy 9mm ammo (He negated questioning me if it was to be shot in a rifle, but instead chose to wring it up as pistol ammunition :rolleyes: ) I am 19. He also asked my friend for his ID...

Ugh

I told him his own stores policy, and how the age limit pretained to what the ammunition was going to be shot in, not the ammunition itself. He rejected the idea. I asked him if I could buy .223 (For my AR15, however... I didn't tell him that, for he might have had an acute myocardial Infarction) and clearly said it was rifle ammunition. He told me I needed to be 21. I have purchased ammunition before at wally world, but this old, uninformed geezer wouldnt sell me anything. I was about to ask him to let me see that 7mm remmington ultra magnum in the case just to piss him off, and then badger him if it was legal for me to buy it as I am 19. :fire:

I just called the manager and told him about this little problem, and I hope he brings swift justice.

I am THIS >>>>>>>>>>>>> . < close to getting an RCBS reloding kit and learning to reload my own ammo. I am sick of Winchester White pack, particularly at WALLY world.

Mike Irwin
December 14, 2003, 08:32 PM
He's right, it is the same thing.

A little known, and much suppressed by the ammo companies fact, is that any round will work in any firearm.

This person just apparently hadn't been indoctrinated yet.

Bob F.
December 14, 2003, 08:40 PM
Funny how things vary by locale or by individual store or salesperson. Friend went to local K-mart last fall looking for steel shot for goose hunting. Was told they don't sell ammo for killing animals?!?!?! Today they still carry long guns and ammo! Go figure. I went in to price an 870, didn't buy. Haven't bought anything at K-mart in a couple years.

Most ammo at Wal-mart behind counter. Most knowledgable associate is actually a female. Gal up front at check out aksed what the 2 Value Pack 9mm's were for. I was stocking up for a Tac Pistol class so several answers came to mind, but I just said "gun".

greg700
December 14, 2003, 08:56 PM
I was looking at purchasing a new blackpowder rifle a couple years ago, and I had heard that the local walmart had a nice selection.

I asked to see the flintlock hawking rifle (most of them were percussion), and the guy behind the counter responded with "which one?", and I said: "The flintlock." To which, he answered "they are all flintlocks, that's what they call blackpowder rifles." When I tried to explin that flintlocks are so named because they actually have a little piece of flint, he began to make fun of me.

I left without purchasing anything.

BluesBear
December 14, 2003, 09:40 PM
HE MADE FUN OF YOU ?!?!

That is basis for termination at Wal-Mart !

The BIG Rule at Wal-Mart is "Respect For The Individual".

Making fun, talking down to or in otherways insulting a customer is "cause for discipline up to and including termination".

You should have complained to a member of managment (red vest) immediately !

grampster
December 14, 2003, 09:43 PM
knife_sniper,

Carefull how ya throw around the geezer word here, ya little whipper snapper.

:neener:

dukeofurl
December 14, 2003, 10:03 PM
Knife_Sniper came out of the closet to say:
Yesterday I attempted to buy ammunition for a carbine rifle chambered in 9mm.

Store policiy does not ask if its pistol ammunition, but asks the owner/purchaser if the ammo is going to be used in a rifle.

I love the sign that says "FEDERAL LAW requires that you be 21 to buy handgun ammo and 18 to buy rifle or shotgun ammo."

Federal Law - From the green book.

TITLE 27--ALCOHOL, TOBACCO PRODUCTS AND FIREARMS

CHAPTER I--BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO AND FIREARMS, DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY

PART 178--COMMERCE IN FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION--Table of Contents

Subpart F--Conduct of Business

Sec. 178.99 Certain prohibited sales or deliveries.

(b) Sales or deliveries to underaged persons. A licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector shall not sell or deliver (1) any firearm or ammunition to any individual who the importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than 18 years of age, and, if the firearm, or ammunition, is other than a shotgun or rifle, or ammunition for a shotgun or rifle, to any individual who the importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than 21 years of age...

Note: HAS REASONABLE CAUSE TO BELIEVE.

The federal statute on ammuntion for the too long didnt read crowd states that a licensee may not deliver HANDGUN ammunition to anyone to anyone who they have reasonable cause to belive is less than 21. From what I'm reading that means that "dont ask dont tell" is a legal defense - if the ATF gets on their case about it.

Standing Wolf
December 14, 2003, 10:16 PM
I'd say that's reason number 52,917 to stay the @#$%^&! out of Wal Mart.

huaco
December 14, 2003, 11:20 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the responsibility for buying and using the right ammo assigned to the gun owner? Expecting the clerk at Wallyworld to make sure you get the right ammo is not realistic on planet earth. To their credit when I went there and asked about 9X18 Makarov ammo the kid told me they don'tcarry it. I'm not a Walmart fan but I do buy 9mm ammmo there occasionally. Expecting the people who work there to know anything about what they sell is not realistic. It would be nice but it ain't happening.

Chipperman
December 15, 2003, 12:28 AM
The man may have had a C&R. It is an FFL, but not a terribly difficult one to get, and would not be surprising that he still works at WallyWorld rather than his own gun shop.

Darrin
December 15, 2003, 12:40 AM
You're not referring to Bob at the Hermitage WallyWorld, are you?? :confused: He's one of two WalMart people I've met that know what the heck they are talking about.

(FYI - Person number two is a lady at the Ashland City WalMart.)

zpo
December 15, 2003, 01:21 AM
2yrs ago I worked at the Owasso Supercenter Ok, (20 mins north of Tulsa).
The self paced computer training I rec'd included properly filling out 4423's, proper storage and handling, (not four rules, but don't drop, don't let people load and such) and how to call NICS. Nothing covered general ammo or firearms info. If someone knows, they educated themselves. And they are trained to never say "I don't know". Technically they could get in trouble, particularly if its a District Store which mine was.

P.S. The FFL at my store had the store managers and sporting goods managers name on it, so they both "had" a FFL.

Kooter
December 15, 2003, 08:16 AM
Another thing is that all ammo sales are final. No refund, no exchange. So some advice: If your sending someone to buy ammo, give him/her and empty box to take with them.


here is the first wrong answer i have seen in this thread. wal-marts policy is that they WILL take returns on ammo AS LONG AS it is within 24 hours with a receipt. after 24 hours you are out of luck. we then have to take a "mark down" on the ammo and it is picked-up by the police department and destroyed(yeah right).

I love it when I buy .30-06, and they ask me if it's for a handgun.
Yeah, sure, handgun OF DOOM!

what is wrong with that? there are 30-06 handguns out there. thompson makes them for the contender. just because you have never heard of them doesn't mean they don't exist.



huaco is correct, it is not my responsibility to know what type of firearm you have and what type of ammo you need. i can give you a suggestion of what you need based on the information you provide to me. but if you(general term, not picking out an individual here) don't know what you need then how am i supposed to know. EVERYDAY i have people come in and say "i need some bullets." i ask "what kind". the typical response is "i don't know it goes in a rifle". i then have to find out what type/model so i can tell them what they use.

while the majority of sporting goods associates out there don't know what they are talking about, there are some of us that do. on the flip side of the coin, the majority of customers don't know what they are talking about either, but there are also many that do.

i could go for days about the people that come and talk to me about the moose that was brought down by their daddys 12 gauge with bird shot(conversation i had with a lady tonight). while it is possible to do it, i doubt it happened the way she was telling it. or the elk they have harvested over the years with a 22 magnum(which is "all the rifle anybody ever really needs.."). or the guy that asked me yesterday "why does the tag on that gun say 710 but the little tag underneath it says 30-06?" i said " because the 710 is the model, and 30-06 is the caliber." his exact words "i've never heard of a 710 bullet, what does it look like?"

Zach S
December 15, 2003, 08:31 AM
here is the first wrong answer i have seen in this thread. wal-marts policy is that they WILL take returns on ammo AS LONG AS it is within 24 hours with a receipt. after 24 hours you are out of luck. we then have to take a "mark down" on the ammo and it is picked-up by the police department and destroyed(yeah right). If you work at the wal-mart here in Asheville, take that sign down. To be perfectly honest I dont know if that sign is still there, but I do remember seeing it.

Kooter
December 15, 2003, 08:37 AM
i work for a wally world in washington. while i don't doubt that some dumbass in management put a sign up at your local wal-mart saying they don't allow returns on ammo, it is not walmarts policy. there may be a local law there stating that ammo can not be taken back. i have seen the same sign at some local gun shops.

TallPine
December 15, 2003, 01:15 PM
I am continually amazed that anyone would expect any "associate" working in any dept in Walmart to know anything about anything. :rolleyes:

Yes, I'm sure there are some knowledgeable people working there - at least until they find another job.

It's a "discount store" - you get what you pay for - you are responsible for yourself - TANSTAAFL ... and all that

Only gun stuff I ever buy there is the Federal 22 LR bulk packs

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