Speedloader vs. moon clip


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dashootist
September 22, 2010, 09:46 PM
Hey. Got a 686 7-shot. Using 38spl with hks speedloaders just fine. How much slower are floppy moon clips? I want to get the cylinder cut for them because it'll keep the brass nice and neat during matches instead of loose all over the place and having to hunt them down. But I see moon clip users are slow in our matches.

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rich642z
September 22, 2010, 09:53 PM
If you are going to use your S&W 686+ for competition,then fine. If not just use the speedloaders. The reason why I say that is,,,,,,, Is it cost worthy for you to do it???? You can do anything you want to your revolver but,if I were you,check with S&W factory about doing it and the cost. rich642z

Lucky Derby
September 22, 2010, 10:09 PM
Moon clips are faster, not slower, than speedloaders. How much faster depends on the user.
Process
1. open cylinder
2. dump empties
3. insert rounds with speedloader or clip
4. turn knob/press button to release rounds if using speedloader
5. discard speedloader
6. close cylinder
If using moon clips you skip steps 4 & 5

David E
September 23, 2010, 12:08 AM
Jerry established his world record (6, reload, 6 in 2.99 seconds) using a moon clip....and no one is going to break it using a speedloader....

dashootist
September 23, 2010, 12:23 AM
Jerry use 45ACP. Those are not as floppy as the 357/38spl in moonclips that I've seen. My original question was about 357/38spl moon clips only.

ChristopherG
September 23, 2010, 12:44 AM
What competition do you intend to shoot? A 7-shot six-gun is not going to work for IDPA or for revolver class in USPSA. Do you have an ICORE club nearby? If so, lucky you!

You're right about the floppy .38 moonclips. I had a model 66 cut for them but decided after extensive experimentation that I liked speedloaders better--though a .45 acp moonclipped gun is clearly better yet, as far as reloads. Those speedloaders, though, are Safariland. AFAIK, the only speedloaders available for your 7-shooter are HKS, which are just a step above lobbing the rounds into the cylinder from the free-throw line in my experience.

A seven-shot 686+ was my first revolver, and it was a sweet, sweet gun; but when I figured out I wanted to shoot competition I changed to a gun that better suited the rules of the shooting sports and the speedloading equipment available.

Jim Watson
September 23, 2010, 12:52 AM
I also had two cylinders cut for .38 clips and found out they were not in the same league as .45 clip guns. A lot of the ICORE shooters use .38 Short Colt to reduce the wiggle.
One of those guns was a 7 shot. It was unsalable so I paid S&W to put a 6 shot cylinder and hand in it.

There is a new importer for SL Variant speedloaders. They are straight push loaders like Safariland and Jetloader but are even easier to load up. There is a 7 shot version.

http://www.bobmacs.com/variantfit.htm

David E
September 23, 2010, 01:01 AM
Jerry use 45ACP. Those are not as floppy as the 357/38spl in moonclips that I've seen. My original question was about 357/38spl moon clips only.

Jerry ALSO uses a .38/357 with moonclips.

The SL Variants are good speedloader choices, tho.

rich642z
September 23, 2010, 02:07 AM
Jerry has an 8 shot .357/38 revolver he uses in competition thats why you see him using moonclips. rich642z

MrBorland
September 23, 2010, 06:56 AM
What competition do you intend to shoot? A 7-shot six-gun is not going to work for IDPA or for revolver class in USPSA. Do you have an ICORE club nearby? If so, lucky you!

This is what I was thinking. As a versatile competition revolver, a 4" 6-shot .357 or .45acp would be your best choice.

Just to clarify: Your gun itself is legal, but you can only load 6 rounds, at least in IDPA (in which the barrel can be no longer than 4", btw). I believe in USPSA Revolver Division, you can load 7 if you want, but can only shoot 6 before a reload. Not an ideal situation.

Also, a moonclipped IDPA gun shoots in ESR, so your ammo would have to make a power factor (velocity x bullet mass) of 165,000, rather than 125,000.

In addition to ICORE, you can also shoot USPSA Production and Open, though it's hardly an ideal gun for either.

There may be other competitions where your 7-shot would work fine, e.g. Steel Challenge, Bowling Pins, etc. The rules are generally available on-line and are worth a read.

But I see moon clip users are slow in our matches.

Reload speed, whether using speedloaders or moonclips, is highly dependent on the amount of practice one puts in. That will be true for you, as well. ;)

My $0.02, then: keep your gun the way it is. Buy some SL variant speedloaders for it, and practice your butt off.

Chuck Perry
September 23, 2010, 07:09 AM
I use moonclips for my 627. I have found that bullet profile has alot to do with how "speedy" you can load them into the cylinder. Blunt nose bullets take a bit more fooling around than round nose or cone profile. I am currently carrying Hornady Critical Defense HP's in it. Their profile allows them to drop right in, whereas the Remington soft points I had previously carried needed to be lined up with the cylinder chambers almost exact before they would drop in.

TuckerNielson
September 23, 2010, 04:15 PM
Simple solution - Keep your revolver the way it is AND buy a S&W 625 JM. That's what I did and I've loved every second of it. 45acp is much less punishing to shoot (for me) than my 686 in 357.

As to what is faster - I certainly don't have the experience to say definitively one way or another - takes me about the same time to reload with moon clips as it does with speed loaders (e.g. slowly).

my two cents

dashootist
September 23, 2010, 07:17 PM
I know my 7-shot is a bad choice for match shooting. But I have to live with that bad decision. Not that it really matters much; I'm not good enough yet to be competitive.

So, is Jerry using some kind of super stiff moon clip or what?

ChristopherG
September 24, 2010, 06:04 AM
Jerry could whip up on us mortals using rounds tied together with dental floss.

The best moonclips are available at TK custom (moonclips.com). With .38/.357 moonclipped guns, you can use clips that are slightly thicker than the standard (usually .020 or .022 thick; the thicker ones are .025), though they won't work with all brass (read: no Winchester brass). TK custom's online store explains the options. That, and the above advice about using the right bullet profile (a good old 158 gr. RNL is about right) and a short case (.38 special is all I ever used, but hardcore ICORE shooters use .38 short colt. I wouldn't bother to go to that extreme since you're shooting a sub-optimal gun anyway).

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