How many here use a shooting timer?


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gunzee
September 24, 2010, 01:13 PM
I can barely average under .55 second for a draw from a pocket rig and a hit on a man's chest at arm's length. Is that fairly fast, given the hand on the gun, in the pocket? It seems fast to me, but I used to beat that time with a speed rig and a 1911, starting hands at sides.

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Sam1911
September 24, 2010, 01:37 PM
Yes, I use a shot timer at every practice.

I can't recall ever having timed a draw from a pocket holster, nor from a "hand-on-the-gun" position.

0.55 sec. is pretty fast, though. How many pairs of trousers do you go thorough in a range session?

BullfrogKen and I were running some speed-rock/retention drills last night at practice and I don't think I got under 0.85 or 0.88 sec. using an xDM and an owb kydex holster. So, 0.55 from a pocket would seem fairly zippy.

gunzee
September 24, 2010, 01:40 PM
while using a pocket rig. I've done so a time or two with the speed rig and 1911, tho. It's pretty exciting.

ny32182
September 24, 2010, 01:59 PM
I've been told recently that the "beep" is about .4 seconds, and the best shooters I know want to have their hand on the grip by that time. And that is from a belt holster.

ChristopherG
September 24, 2010, 02:39 PM
I can barely average under .55 second for a draw from a pocket rig and a hit on a man's chest at arm's length.

You are evidently using an unusual timer.

Ankeny
September 24, 2010, 10:03 PM
You are evidently using an unusual timer. Ummm...yeah.

LeonCarr
September 24, 2010, 11:51 PM
Where can I buy one of those timers?

jmorris
September 25, 2010, 07:24 AM
I've been told recently that the "beep" is about .4 seconds,

What brand? They are all different.

Owen
September 25, 2010, 10:26 PM
that's pretty smoking fast. what kind of times do you think you should be getting?

ny32182
September 25, 2010, 10:29 PM
What brand? They are all different.

Want to say we were looking at a Pocket Pro II at the time; not 100% certain.

David E
September 26, 2010, 12:21 AM
I can barely average under .55 second

Most of the draw time is in the acquisition phase, not the presentation phase.

Sounds like you have a suitable holster in a suitable pocket, which is not always easy to combine.

From a belt mounted holster, hand on gun, times under .39 are easily attainable......but be careful !!

The "beep" lasts 3/10th's of a second. Most people's reaction time is around 1/4 second when they are awaiting an impending start signal.

There doesn't seem to be anything unusual about his timer. Perhaps some folks are confusing the minimum Par time setting with what the timer itself can do. The shortest programable par time is .55 seconds on many shot timers, but they can, and do, accurately record shorter time frames.

Sweet
September 26, 2010, 12:57 AM
LeonCarr this is the one I use. http://www.competitionelectronics.com/pages/Pocket_Pro.html
But there are others out there.
http://pact.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=17&Itemid=32

http://www.gunfighter.com/timers/
The first two are the ones I see used in Cowboy Action, the third is used in fastdraw.

Ankeny
September 26, 2010, 06:48 PM
Most people's reaction time is around 1/4 second when they are awaiting an impending start signal. So with a suitable pocket holster, a time of .3 seconds after the reaction time to draw and torch one off with a hit would be a reasonable expectation?

1SOW
September 26, 2010, 11:16 PM
Using a Pact timer with delayed beep & 9mm: On a good day, from hands relaxed at sides, I can draw from a belt holster and hit the 'A' zone at 5 yds in about 1.25secs. My plan is to consistently get below 1.2, then lower the time again.

Some GMs I watch beat a second consistently--all "A"s.

Never tried your conditions.





.

chbrow10
September 27, 2010, 10:24 PM
I use a timer for USPSA practice. As far as your times, at arms length, that seems ok. Using the bill drill as a guide for draw and shot times, the standard Bill Drill is a USPSA Metric Target at 7 yards, 6 shots from the holster, 2 seconds is the time to compare yourself to. All the hits must be A zone hits. I can do it in 2 seconds, but they won't be all A's ;-)

David E
September 30, 2010, 12:10 AM
So with a suitable pocket holster, a time of .3 seconds after the reaction time to draw and torch one off with a hit would be a reasonable expectation?

I don't know how reasonable an expectation it is, but it IS possible. While this would require the perfect holster in the perfect pocket drawn perfectly, it is possible.

And, yeah, I'd like to see it, too, just to verify various elements of the stated draw.

That said, I can break into the mid to high .30's starting with my hand on my holstered gun. Never tried it from the pocket.

Ankeny
September 30, 2010, 01:23 AM
While this would require the perfect holster in the perfect pocket drawn perfectly, it is possible.

My frame of reference has always been hands at sides, or surrender position. I guess I should have tried the drill before posting. :o I am a middle aged fat guy who wears really baggy pants with generous pockets. I carry a Ruger LCP in an Uncle Mike's size 2 sidekick pocket holster. With my hand on the gun and the pistol mashed all of the way into the holster, the .55 time is impossible because I usually draw the gun and the holster. Even if I clear the holster, I need to reacquire the grip. If I pull the pistol just free enough of the holster to get a proper grip (as one might in certain conditions), a .55 draw is attainable. If the draw is made out of a jacket pocket, .55 is a piece of cake. Then again, if the weather allows me to wear a jacket, I won't be pulling a mouse gun :)

David E
September 30, 2010, 01:01 PM
See, this is something a shot timer can tell you !!

I had imagined a scenario where I was asked to surrender my wallet, but reaching for the holstered belt gun instead. Were I to ask them a question, or tremble so much as to make them laugh, a draw in .37 would certainly work out in my favor, even if I had to play "catch up" at the start.

Ankeny
September 30, 2010, 02:55 PM
FWIW, I have worn out several shot timers. :)

Now that I have tried the drill, I have an idea of what is and isn't realistic. IMHO, a .55 (including reaction time) draw from a pocket holster (in the pants, hand on gun) as an on demand feat, day in and day out, is totally unreasonable. However, it does make a pretty nifty square range stunt.

David E
September 30, 2010, 11:37 PM
It depends on the gun, holster and pocket.

I wouldn't think it would be easy to do with an LCP from a cheap Uncle Mike's holster.

It IS acheivable with a 642 from a good pocket holster in a good pocket.

Of course, the OP said he beat that time (.55) with a 1911 in a speed rig, hands at sides. My best ever, done 3 times, is a .45 and there was nothing routine about it. Could I do a sub 1/2 second draw tomorrow? I dunno.

Robert Wilson
October 1, 2010, 12:15 AM
I use a timer for a great many things, including practice with dangerous game rifles. It is a wonderful motivator.

I will note that Bill Jordan was famous for drawing a service revolver from a specially made rig and firing a reasonably aimed shot (man size target at a few yards) in about a quarter second. So if we are talking about reacting to a beep, placing a hand in a pocket from a relaxed or surrender position, drawing, presenting as arms length, and hitting in half a second, well, I have sincere doubts. In a third of a second? I simply would not believe it.

So my assumption is that the shooter in question is either drawing from a position where his gun is already in his grasp, or is not counting reaction time.

Sam1911
October 1, 2010, 12:24 AM
So my assumption is that the shooter in question is either drawing from a position where his gun is already in his grasp

Well, he said that he was starting with his hand on his gun in his pocket in his opening post:

given the hand on the gun

I'd imagine the idea of the exercise is to assume as many pocket-carriers suggest, that a sketchy situation is developing (panhandler, someone approaches you with some warning, just walking down the street, etc) and you have your hand on your gun hidden inside your pocket as part of your "level orange" response.

The test here is how fast could you go from recognition of a weapon/threat to firing your own gun.

Reasonable enough exercise I think, without getting into debates about whether you'd have the precognition to have your hand on the gun.

Robert Wilson
October 1, 2010, 12:30 AM
Ah, my mistake, and thank for you for setting me straight. Gin and the internet are not always a good combination...

David E
October 1, 2010, 01:30 AM
Gin and the internet are not always a good combination...

There's gin on the internet? Somebody's been holding out on me!!

Robert Wilson
October 1, 2010, 01:35 AM
Sorry mate, but I've already got it all. Early bird, etc. ;)

David E
October 1, 2010, 12:21 PM
I can barely average under .55 second for a draw from a pocket rig ... It seems fast to me, but I used to beat that time with a speed rig and a 1911, starting hands at sides.

The more I think about this, the more I wonder if the OP left out a "1" preceeding the ".55" (possibly even a "2")

Two reasons:

1) Not many people this side of a Grandmaster, and not all of them, can make that time.

2) Even the Grandmasters don't have to wonder if it "seemed fast."

Too bad he hasn't made any subsequent posts..

Sam1911
October 1, 2010, 12:44 PM
Yes. Interesting, isn't it?

We have a few timers kicking around that got dropped or wet once too many times and the readouts occasionally appear to grant superhuman powers to the most ... pedestrian ... of competitors! :D

Wonder if he should get some independent verification?

ny32182
October 1, 2010, 01:00 PM
What are you guys trying to say; you don't believe everything you read on the internet??? :)

Ankeny
October 1, 2010, 09:23 PM
When I made the time (from pants pocket) I was just shooting at the berm, gun in hand, partially out of the holster. The round hit the bay floor about 8 feet in front of me. I probably jumped the timer to boot. :evil:

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