Ever been cheated in a trade?


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TexasGunbie
September 25, 2010, 11:02 PM
The other day I listed a gun for trade. I got an offer saying that he has a Glock and 3 mags without a box. When I got there, he said he forgot to bring the third mag. I was already nice enough to drive 30 miles to meet him up. In the end, I hung onto my own box and told him that if he finds the mag, let me know so that I can come back and trade my box for it. Well he never call back...

Anyways, what's the worse that ever happened to you on a trade?

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Stasher1
September 26, 2010, 01:18 AM
Call me a hardass, but if the item isn't exactly as described (and that includes all accessories and extras) then I take my gun and go home.

Bullnettles
September 26, 2010, 01:50 AM
No, and I think you did the right thing.

wideym
September 26, 2010, 06:07 AM
During the AWB, I traded an out of town dealer (not out of state though) a compleate Dan Wesson .44mag barrel (barrel, shroud, and barrel nut) for a HK VP70 mag, which he said he would mail to me. He even gave me his buisness card, but after two weeks and no mag I called only to be told by his secretary he was in a meeting.

I called every three days for a month at random times and every time his secretary told me he was in a meeting and he never returned my calls, until the tenth or eleventh call when he told me he didn't have the mag, I wasn't going to get my barrel back, and if I continued to harrass him he would have me arrested (hinting he was very close to the local sherriff).

redneckdan
September 26, 2010, 09:15 AM
If you mailed the barrel to him then I'm pretty sure you can go after him via postal inspectors for mail fraud.

Ky Larry
September 26, 2010, 09:31 AM
I've been outsmarted but never outright cheated. As W.C. Fields said,"You can't cheat an honest man."

jonnyc
September 26, 2010, 10:11 AM
Wideym-Assuming the guy was an FFL "dealer", the ATF might even have been interested in hearing about his shady dealing. At least the threat might have some weight.

marktx
September 26, 2010, 12:02 PM
If you mailed the barrel to him then I'm pretty sure you can go after him via postal inspectors for mail fraud.

Postal Inspectors won't touch anything that small from what I can gather. There may be small/localized exceptions to that but they really are gonna be going for big time scamers that are stealing 10s-100s of thousands.

Mags
September 26, 2010, 12:03 PM
Ever been cheated in a trade? Everytime you trade with a gun store.

searcher451
September 26, 2010, 12:15 PM
As W.C. Fields said,"You can't cheat an honest man."

The back half of that quote, IIRC, is "... or smarten up a chump." Sadly, a lot of chumps are out there looking to take advantage, especially in deals conducted over long distances. I once bought an otherwise nice Walther PP from a guy several states over. When the gun arrived, it didn't work. His comment when contacted: "Well, it worked when I sent it." It cost me a trip to the gunsmith, along with some spent brass (my 'smith reloads) and a bit of cash. I later suggested to the seller that he refund the price of the repair, but he never responded. He also wasn't allowed to post any additional firearms for sale on the Walther Forums.

billybob44
September 26, 2010, 12:28 PM
For me, being in the car business almost 50 years, the saying that comes to mind is "It's Not the deal you got-it's the deal you THINK you got"..:confused:

LHRGunslinger
September 26, 2010, 12:35 PM
I think we should start a sticky thread just to report people who have legitimately scammed us. Username, address whatever. Yes I do realize the potential for slander in such a thread, but the protection of our rights, weapons and monies is also something we need to think about.

The Lone Haranguer
September 26, 2010, 12:50 PM
I've never had a fraudulent transaction where anything was purposely misrepresented, but on one occasion I traded two guns that worked - at far less than I could have sold them for - for a more expensive one that did not.

parsimonious_instead
September 26, 2010, 12:53 PM
On buy transactions, I've at least broken even, and on one occasion did really, really well.
As a buyer, I never chip people down on price, and on a couple of occasions slipped in a little bit more than they asked for.

Shear_stress
September 26, 2010, 12:54 PM
Buy enough of anything and you will inevitably have issues. Most of the problems I've had with guns bought online were, I'd like to think, honest mistakes on the parts of the sellers. I've had very good luck getting these things resolved to my satisfaction.

This was not a trade, but the closest thing I've ever been to cheated was when I bought a Colt AR online that arrived with a clearly aftermarket bolt carrier so crudely made it appeared chiseled by hand. Lots of people in the chain of custody of that sale, so I'm not sure who to blame. It took some time, but I was able to sort out even that fiasco.

c919
September 26, 2010, 03:15 PM
I've never been outright cheated, but I did encounter an honest mistake recently.

I had traded a PX4 Storm plus some cash for a beautifully engraved Rossi 92. The fellow who I traded with was the engraver. He had only bought the gun to engrave it. He told me from the get go that he had not fired it, but had cycled some rounds through just to check it. He told me everything the previous owner had told him.

So I got it, and was very happy with the trade, until about a week later when I broke it down to clean it. I removed the bolt, and noticed some epoxy on the receiver. I thought "Uh oh, that ain't good", and proceeded to remove this epoxy only to find a massive crack in the receiver. Whoever put it there had done a good job of hiding the crack, and it appeared as if the epoxy had been there for a long time. You really wouldn't have been able to notice it unless you completely broke the gun down, so I don't think the guy who I traded with had any clue.

I called him and told him, and he immediately wanted to make it right. He apologized up and down and sounded very thankful that I noticed it before I shot it. We met up the next day and reversed the trade. He was a very stand-up guy, who I think made an honest mistake. The guy he got it from pretty much told him he was stuck with it. I felt for him, but that was between them. I think he was able to get it fixed by Rossi for free, so I guess it wasn't too bad.

msgunner
September 26, 2010, 03:29 PM
I've never came out on top in a trade and never quite seem to get what I want out of the deal. So from now on, I'm just gonna keep all my guns... I'm an aspiring gun hoarder...

RONSERESURPLUS
September 26, 2010, 03:50 PM
I traded a Nice S & W Model 39 9MM semi auto like new inthe box for a Star PD 45 Pistol used but seemed like nice shape, Shot it that night it was a cracked frame, I did to announce the Fraud as he refused to make it right till I announced his bad dealing over the Gun show PA, I hated to do it, but he would not trade back and laughed about it? That made him find me and trade back< LOL a mans gotta do,whats a mans gota do?

RON

hartmen
September 26, 2010, 04:04 PM
how the heck do you crack the frame? run it over with a tank? lol :what:

atblis
September 26, 2010, 04:30 PM
how the heck do you crack the frame? run it over with a tank? lol

Spanish metallurgy...

mbogo
September 26, 2010, 06:21 PM
I only trade with people I know personally.

mbogo

Steve Marshall
September 26, 2010, 08:07 PM
You can crack a frame in quite a few ways. A Detonics Pocket 9 I owned, cracked by shooting it.

bannockburn
September 27, 2010, 09:18 AM
hartmen

The Star PD has an aluminum frame, and uses a shock absorbing buffer to cut down on some of the wear and tear of the frame. I don't remember exactly but you were supposed to replace the buffer every 500 to 1000 rounds. Perhaps the previous owner didn't replace the buffer, and ran some hotter than normal loads through it.

Bubbles
September 27, 2010, 12:58 PM
Wideym-Assuming the guy was an FFL "dealer", the ATF might even have been interested in hearing about his shady dealing. At least the threat might have some weight.
ATF would respond that it's a civil issue, and to file a complaint in small claims court.

22-rimfire
September 27, 2010, 03:04 PM
I have made stupid purchases out of ignorance in the past. But I don't think I have ever been "cheated" other than allowing my desire for a particular gun to overshadow my common sense. Now I have had some problems on Ebay in the past, but it was not a frequent thing. I have pretty much stopped most purchases via Ebay. It gets habit forming and the $$ really add up over time.

TexasGunbie, I don't see a problem with the purchase you made and how you handled it. Of course, a Glock box is not much of a collector's item. I wouldn't have driven 30 miles to pick up a mag after the fact.

Navy_Guns
September 27, 2010, 03:21 PM
One time several of us at work all bought 1911 frames and parts kits from Sarco to build our own entry-level pistols. After trying to fit his mag catch to the frame and buggering it all up, one of my "friends" snuck into my desk and switched his buggered part for the new one out of my bag of parts. I figured out what had happened and who did it, and he was no longer my friend. It explained several other items that went missing from my desk around the same time...

huntsman
September 27, 2010, 03:35 PM
Cheated in a trade? no and not in a sale or purchase either.

I’ve never been cheated as I believe selling a gun for less or paying more because I want something isn’t being cheated.
Buying a damaged gun on false pretenses is and I’ve never experienced that, not getting what you paid for is just out right thievery.

hemiram
September 27, 2010, 06:55 PM
I've never been, but a friend of mine was from a guy on Auction Arms or Gunbroker, can't remember which one anymore. He bought what appeared to be, from the pics, a really nice Detonics 1911. In the pics, it looked almost perfect. This was soon after GB went online, and nobody had much feedback.

It comes a week later, and it was amazingly bad. Lots of little pits all over the slide. It had been polished up with wax and in the pics, you couldn't see anything wrong, except a ding near the front that even his wax couldn't hide completely. Inside, someone had gone dremel crazy, and "worked on" the barrel, which had obviously been swapped out for the pics, as the pics had what appeared to be an untouched barrel. There was a little bit of rust everywhere inside it on all the steel parts. He calls the guy, who got hostile, and refused to refund his money. He went back and forth, but eventually, due to pure luck, he happened to mention the situation to a friend whose cousin was a deputy sheriff in the county the seller lived in and he paid him a "friendly visit" and soon a money order arrived, and he sent the gun back, and got another one on an auction site and he still has it.

TheAmplifiedsoul
September 27, 2010, 07:31 PM
I've been lucky so far. I did feel kind of like I cheated someone else though. Not on purpose. I was offered a Taurus .357 mag for $50. The owner who I've known for a bit said that the cylinder was locking up when fired DA after a few shots. He also said it was getting harder to open and close the cylinder.

I went ahead with the deal just to see if I could get it working, and I was in the market for a .357 anyway. Bought it, and had it fixed within ten minutes of getting home. The ejector was loose, and all I had to do was tighten it. That made the cylinder go in and out smoothly. Also I found out later he had not been releasing the trigger all the way when shooting DA so that's why the cylinder was locking up. 600 rounds later and the gun performs very well. Pretty nice for $50.

pharmer
September 27, 2010, 09:48 PM
The worst was trading 2 scarce revolvers for 2 "LNIB revolvers."
Except they didn't have boxes. Or original grips. One looked like it was drug behind a truck for a couple miles. Drove 60 miles each way. And with a "scripture passage" sigline I thought he certainly could be trusted. Joe

Col. Plink
September 27, 2010, 09:57 PM
traded ammo for a carbine billed as new condition, 1 mag-full fired. That may have been true the five years before he stacked in the corner of his closet...

lonegunman
September 29, 2010, 09:49 AM
During the AWB, I traded an out of town dealer (not out of state though) a compleate Dan Wesson .44mag barrel (barrel, shroud, and barrel nut) for a HK VP70 mag, which he said he would mail to me. He even gave me his buisness card, but after two weeks and no mag I called only to be told by his secretary he was in a meeting.

I called every three days for a month at random times and every time his secretary told me he was in a meeting and he never returned my calls, until the tenth or eleventh call when he told me he didn't have the mag, I wasn't going to get my barrel back, and if I continued to harrass him he would have me arrested (hinting he was very close to the local sherriff).



I'd test that "firendship" with the local sheriff by filing a criminal complaint for "theft by deception", which is the description of what he did to you.


ANY trade is complete when everything changes hands and if it is not all there, call me when it is. I do not give anything to anyone for any reason and do not accept any excuse from anyone for any reason. Unless you offered to trade for whatever the other party remembered to bring and are willing to consider everything he forgot non-existant, you got robbed.

Flame Red
September 30, 2010, 03:28 PM
There is a trade I am working on right now that kind of has the hair standing up on the back of my neck. It would not bother me to just walk away once I see it FTF, except the guy is a couple hours drive and it would suck to just walk away.

The comments about gun shops rings true. There is a local one who I will not name, but he is called the Segway Surfer around town. The story goes like this.

My favorite experience with them was with my brother-in-law a few years back. He was looking for a new semi-auto pistol. Went up to the infamous Segway Surfer store one day with him and got their best OTD price. Got the price from one of the employee's behind the counter - who is one of their few decent guys to deal with. My brother-in-law left to think about it and he decided to go back a few days later to purchase it. He brought with him a possible trade (post-ban configured AR-15) to see if what they would offer him for it - since the Klinton ban had recently expired. He went back with me and the store manager Larry was 'helping' him as the original clerk was off that day. It turned out that the best deal Larry could give him was that it would cost him $100 more than the price he was given a few days before INCLUDING his AR-15 trade. Of course Larry did not know that we were in a few days before, but asking someone to PAY $100 for the privilege of taking an AR-15 off a customer's hands is just a bit much, even for them! Needless to say he was so flabergasted he just walked out and bought it elsewhere.

CHEVELLE427
September 30, 2010, 07:37 PM
i messed up the other way, i sold an xd45 5in with mags it came with, i forgot it came with 2 i gave the guy 3.

i was keeping all the extra mags to go with the new xd45 4in i was buying.

he made out but i also bought a used/new 4in for the same price i sold the 4yr old 5in.

guy had bought 2 new guns and never got around to firing the xd and put it up for sell

Animal Mother
October 1, 2010, 01:20 PM
I've never been outright cheated in a gun trade/sale but I did buy a used Mossberg 500 from an online seller, and when it arrived the front sight was missing. This fact was never mentioned by the seller, and all the auction pictures were cleverly taken so that the area containing the missing sight was never revealed.

I didn't figure that I'd make much headway with the seller so I didn't pursue it but luckily the threads weren't stripped so my gunsmith was able to make it right and mounted a new sight bead for less than 5 bucks. Lesson Learned.

plumbcrazypontiac
October 1, 2010, 01:39 PM
I bought a Nylon 76 off of a online auction from a gundealer in albany NY. Got the gun, and the stock was broken in half, and you can see where someone had a failed attempt at gluing it back together. He wouldn`t refund my $700. I was too young and niave at the time to do anything..

Broken Anvil
October 1, 2010, 02:01 PM
On Gunbroker and Ebay I've been very careful and done well. Got some killer deals, however I let my guard down one time on Ebay and bought some M60 links to see if I could get them to work in my 1919 before I bought a couple of 1000 of them. I paid $1.75 for 100 links.....how could you go wrong? Well it was some foriegn moron with broken english from Jersey......I should have known better. I received 72 links and complained to the seller. He sent me all of my money back. THEN wanted me to spend $5.00 shipping the 72 links back to him. I explained to him since it was his mistake he needed to pay for the shipping and that's when it all started. After about 3 weeks of fighting with him and dealing with Ebay it was all dropped. What a pain over $1.75.....who would have thought.

Broken Anvil
October 1, 2010, 02:04 PM
plumbcrazypontiac,


A pontiac man should know better. Please don't tell me you own a Glock.......

SHOOOTER1
October 1, 2010, 04:23 PM
I think its obvious here - dont buy anything you cant see and put your hands on.

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