CA question,how to report lost gun?


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gunsmith
December 14, 2003, 03:31 PM
How do you report a lost gun?
A few years ago I got a loan from a roomate
who was a life member of the NRA as collaterall
I put my camp carbine in his closet.
I was out of town and he died unexpectedly
his son took everything in his room.
I have been trying to get my gun back(yes I offered $$) but his kid
hasn't made himself available.
I don't want to report it stolen as his son
has a reasonable belief that it was his dads gun but
as I bought the gun new my name will be on the forms
if this gun is used down the road in some kind of crime.
I wan't to report it lost,do I just call DOJ?
thanks guys!gals!

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Pilgrim
December 14, 2003, 03:47 PM
I suggest that if he acknowledges that he has it, you sue him in small claims court for the replacement value of the gun. If he refuses to acknowledge he has it, then report it to the police or sheriff as "lost or stolen." If the police or sheriff ask if you have any suspect(s) in mind, give them the name of the person you believe has it.

The police or sheriff will then go and talk to him to see if he has it. He can say, Yes, I have it, but it belongs to me. Now you have a statement you can introduce into small claims court. If he denies having it, then he goes on record of having no claim to the gun. If it shows up later there is a prima facie case it is your gun.

Pilgrim

rayra
December 15, 2003, 01:40 AM
You can file a request with the CA DOJ (and there might be a small fee). They will produce a report for you, to you, listing the firearms in your name (that they are aware of).
With this info in hand, listing the carbine serial # as YOURS, dupe it, show it to the son, including any documentation that the loan it was security for has been paid, and tell him flat out that if he refuses to return your firearm, you will report it as stolen, and him as the illegal holder of it.
Give him plenty of opportunity / rope to 'see the light'.
Going through with it on the other hand is a real problem, because CA has required (iirc) that weapons transfers be conducted through FFL, and if between Grandparent-Parent-Child, within 30days directly to the CA DOJ.
That being the case, you've likely broken the law in turning over the firearm as security for a loan (and not using a recognized Pawn-FFL to do so).
So it cuts both ways.

If it's simply a matter of his ignorance about who owns the piece, the DOJ report should answer that satisfactorily.
If he's actually out to screw you out of the piece, then you are probably screwed, depending on how good a Poker Player / Bluffer you are.

(shrug) Maybe Civil / Small Claims court, they aren't likely to worry about the DOJs knickers, only about legal ownership.

gunsmith
December 15, 2003, 02:09 AM
I figure there wasn't a real transfer as he was my roomate and we were living in the same house,my gun was simply in his closet when he died.
My problem is,I don't want to jam up his son cause me and the kids dad
were good friends and his dad was very RKBA,old school NRA.
I've got to cover my azz though, it is PRK after all.
I'll call DOJ and report it lost.
I'll have to remember not to do this again.

Matt G
December 15, 2003, 02:18 AM
Another option worth considering, as it may actually be less hassle, is to just sign the thing over to the kid.

EOD Guy
December 15, 2003, 09:25 AM
You can file a request with the CA DOJ (and there might be a small fee). They will produce a report for you, to you, listing the firearms in your name (that they are aware of).

That won't do any good. Except for so called "assault rifles", California does not register rifles (yet). When the DROS is submitted to the DOJ, all it shows is that you were purchasing a rifle. No specific information about the rifle is submitted.

The only record the would show you bought the rifle would be the "yellow form" at the dealer.

45R
December 15, 2003, 11:39 AM
Just remind the kid that stealing a firearm is a felony. That might get his attention. If he doesnt give up then notify him that the firearm will be reported lost or stolen.

10-Ring
December 15, 2003, 08:18 PM
I would think that there would be no such thing as a simple transfer in CA. First off you & your room mate's son have to be at the same place, at the same time to sign paperwork to do the transfer and since he's not even calling you back I doubt he'd be any more cooperative. At that point, lost or stolen, it's all a game of symantics. He's in possession of a firearm that's not in his name in the state of CA.

4v50 Gary
December 15, 2003, 08:24 PM
It's theft. Refusal to return an item to the lawful owner is still a crime. File a stolen property report and the nice police officer will retrieve it for you.

rayra
December 15, 2003, 09:02 PM
I'd strongly suggest getting the legal information together and sending it to the son to give him an opportunity to rethink his position / get his attention. Give him a clear choice and a clear appreciation of the circumstances, before beating him over the head with them.

gunsmith
December 16, 2003, 09:49 PM
calling him (all I have is a cell phone number)
no address or home phone #.
Out of respect for his late dad I don't want to reprt it stolen.(or get him in trouble)
I was out of town for a few days and I really
"preciate" the good replys to my query.
THR is really a good bunch!:)

riverdog
December 16, 2003, 10:44 PM
Out of respect for his late dad I don't want to reprt it stolen.(or get him in trouble) Make a report to the police and get on the record. You've given the kid long enough to take care of this, it's time for some tough love. or...

If you don't want to report it stolen, just tell the police what you said here. You left the rifle with his father for safekeeping and when the father died, the son assumed the rifle was his. You don't mind him keeping the rifle (and you keep the loan) but you want your name off the record as owner. Then let LE take over.

This isn't an illegal firearm transfer is it?

Frohickey
December 16, 2003, 10:51 PM
What I would do is report it as lost, but put the son as the witness.

Then, when the po-po goes and investigates, they could run the serial number of the gun on the report, and see that CA DOJ has you as the owner. Then, they could try and contact the son and ask him the particulars about the gun. Police have a way with making people available.

Pilgrim
December 17, 2003, 01:34 AM
CA DOJ does not keep records of long gun serial numbers, purchases or transfers.

Pilgrim

Gary H
December 17, 2003, 02:12 AM
You need to decide if you want the gun, or not. If you want it, then take steps to get it, otherwise forget it. Folks have given you some good advice, if you don't want to get the kid in trouble, then forget it and hope that the gun is never used in a crime.

buford1
December 17, 2003, 05:16 AM
How do you report a gun lost. Thats ridiculous get the papers show them to him and see if he wants to have a stolen firearm in his possesion. Legaly you can loan out a rifle for 30 days with out any paper work.

Brad Johnson
December 17, 2003, 07:14 PM
Go to the dealer where you bought it and get a copy of the yellow sheet (which includes the serial number). Present it to the son as proof of ownership. If he refuses, then he deserves neither the patience nor the trust you've been so kind to offer, and I would immediately file a report listing the gun as stolen, and with him as the primary suspect.

Brad

Russ
December 17, 2003, 07:47 PM
Maybe I missed it but did you pay the dad's Estate the money you borrowed? If you didn't, it seems to me you may have relinquished your claim to the gun. If you did pay the loan back and the son refuses to return it, then he is a rotten thief. If you want it back without repaying the loan with interest, then I think a small claims judge will require you to pay up in exchange for the gun or accept cash. I lived in the PRK for a long time and to my knowledge, long guns don't get "registered" like a pistol. To prove you ever owned it you will probably have to produce a receipt and the yellow sheet that the dealer should have. I boils down to how much hassle you want to go through. If you contact DOJ and they have records of you owning it, I would go through the hassle. Otherwise, consider it an expensive lesson.

gunsmith
December 27, 2003, 03:15 AM
I called the cops to report it missing
they took a report and I have a case number.
They said they won't do anything about it
but it's good I made a report
in case it's ever used in a crime.
BTW I offered time and time again to
pay the son 200 but to no avail.

Valkman
December 27, 2003, 04:20 AM
They said they won't do anything about it

That's what I figured what come out of it - when I had a gun stolen once in Lodi, CA the cops couldn't be bothered to come out. Just call it in and forget it. Unless it's used in a crime and falls into their hands they won't do anything. The sad fact is that so many guns are lost or stolen they can't do much about it.

rayra
December 27, 2003, 04:22 AM
There is also a CA-DOJ form for reporting you no longer have it, if you care to go that far.

- and I think you've made a mistake reporting it 'missing' - you know right where it is at. Now you've compounded the issue by misrepresenting on a police report.

EDIT - here's the form I mentioned - http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/forms/pdf/nlip.pdf

riverdog
December 27, 2003, 09:40 AM
I agree with rayra. Once you go to LE to resolve the issue, you gotta give them the whole story. If it is used in a crime it could easily come back that you knew who had possession and did not give the info to LE in this report. In addition to being a false report, this could be considered an illegal transfer of a firearm.

Topgun
December 27, 2003, 05:32 PM
Crime one: You didn't secure your gun.

Crime two: Making a collateral loan without a pawnbroker license is a crime

Crime three: You have acknowledged an illegal transfer of a firearm

NEVER loan money on an item. I am no lawyer but was a pawnbroker and I believe collateral loans are regulated in all states.

NEVER mess with guns in trades, loans, borrows, or let them out of your control. A safe would have stopped ALL this mess.

It's so damned funny how much attention we pay to gun laws and then throw em out the window when it comes to lettin someone borrow one or make a loan against it.

DON'T f*** around with GUNS!

It hurts ALL of us.

:cuss: :banghead: :fire:

gunsmith
December 29, 2003, 06:04 PM
Crime one: You didn't secure your gun.
the gun was very secure,in his closet! Crime two: Making a collateral loan without a pawnbroker license is a crime
He was my roomate,not a pawnbroker a friend or roomate can certainly
lend you $ and require some kind of collateral,if I defaulted on payment
I would have done a transfer.Crime three: You have acknowledged an illegal transfer of a firearm
No,I have not,there was no transfer. I and my roomate lived in the same house.My gun was in his closet. he loaned me some dough.
Heck,there wasn't a closet in my room it is reasonable for my long gun to be in his closet.
re:riverdog
I told the cops the entire story and gave them the cell# of his kid.
I have all the paperwork as I bought the gun brand new,yellow form and reciept.
re: pilgrim most gun stores have a record of whom they sold the gun to,
so while it's not "registered" if recovered at the scene of a crime LE can trace where it was first sold and to whom.
Thats why after the DC "sniper" was caught they were able to trace the gun to bullseye in WA.

Jim Diver
December 30, 2003, 01:10 AM
I thought about this one for a while.

Your butt is exposed right now. Two things you should do. Get a lawyer now and find out where you stand with the law. One who is a firearms law expert (I can recommend one if you want). Call the FFL you bought the gun from and get a copy of your 4473 form.

What is the gun is stolen from him and used in a crime? I suspect there is already a crime of illegal transfer at the minimum.

Forget theft, you have to keep in mind that this is PRK and needs to be treated as such.

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