[Marko Kloos]

So this local shop has a pretty minty Combat Commander on the shelf. Nothing special, just a blued Series 80 gun in nice shape. I feel myself oddly fascinated with it, although I cannot for the life of me rationalize the niche that this particular gun is supposed to fill.

It has the steel frame, so it'll be only very slightly lighter than a full-sized 1911, and it still has the full-length grip, so it won't conceal any better than a 5-inch Gummint model.
Still, it points very well, and I've always liked the Commanders for some weird, undefined reason. Also, "Combat Commander" sounds cool to say when someone asks you what you're toting. :D

Some folks seem to think it's the best gun ever made by Colt, others think it's about as useful as teats on a boar. Any thoughts on the pros and cons of the Combat Commander?

[Skunkabilly]

Shorter snout so it won't peek out under your cover garment?

[1911Tuner]

I love the Commander for daily carry because of the difference in weight.
25 years ago, it wasn't an issue, but my old bones appreciate it now.

The steel-framed Combat Commander has one distinct advantage over the
LW version...Better balance. CLW feels a little top-heavy, and this gets more apparent as the magazine empties. The Combat Commander is also more durable for heavy use than the LW Commander, even though some
report many tens of thousands of rounds through the LW version without
ill effects...it's just a fact that steel is going to hold up better in wear and
impact resistance.

If you are mainly interested in a pistol that will be carried a lot and seldom shot, wait for a LW Commander. If it will be a dual-purpose gun and you anticipate carry AND hard use...and you love the looks and balance of the shorter pistol, the Combat Commander is hard to beat. The difference in weight is only about 10 ounces, and with good leather, you'll hardly be able to tell the difference unless you're like me, and carry the daily reminders of a misspent, reckless youth.:D

For the record, of my collection of 1911s, one in five is a Commander or
Commander-sized clone that I built, and there are three steel-framed Commanders for every alloy version.

For the trivia section...a full-sized frame with a 4 and 3/4 inch barrel do not a Commander make. It's gotta have the prancin' horsie to be a real Commander.:p AND...There has never been a Series 70 Commander from
Colt as a regular production offering. They are all Series 80s or Pre-Series 80s.

Now, go buy that pistol!

Tuner

[Marko Kloos]

Shorter snout so it won't peek out under your cover garment?

I carry IWB, so the difference in slide length is going to be insignificant.

[Tamara]

You carry IWB, so it's about as useful as teats on a boar hog. ;)

(Let's see: it's not really any lighter, no more concealable, and gives up barrel length and sight radius. What's not to love? :D )

[Mal H]

1911Tuner: AND...There has never been a Series 70 Commander from Colt as a regular production offering. They are all Series 80s or Pre-Series 80s.

Huh? Please explain what you mean, 'cause I don't think I understand. Are you saying my Series 70 Combat Commander (steel frame, not CLW) isn't a regular production pistol? I think it is.

[Erik Jensen]

the series 70 designation, if I'm not mistaken, refers to the weird bushing that the used. commanders never got that bushing, therefore they were never truly series 70s. just series 80(Firing pin safety), and pre-series 80(no firing pin safety)


though, I've been known to be wrong, from time to time. :cool:

[1911Tuner]

In a technical sense, Series 70 designated the run of pistols that came from
Colt with the collet bushing. Pistols prior to that...both Commander and Government Model...weren't known as "Series" anything, and are correctly
referred to as Pre-Series 70 pistols. Since there has never been a Commander offered as a production item with the collet bushing, there were no
Series 70 Commanders. it's possible that a few custom shop Commanders with a modified collet bushing may be floating around, but I doubt it.
The Commander bushings are too short to allow such a set-up that
would add anything to the accuracy of the gun, which is what the collet
bushing was intended to do.

Since the introduction of the Colt Series 80 pistols...the ones with the
passive firing pin block...any pistol that DOESN'T have such a set-up
has come to be known generically as 70 Series...or Series 70...even
Springfields, but they aren't. Series 70, Series 80, and Series 90 are Colt
trademarks.

Now that Colt has reintroduced the pre-Series 70 pistols in their WW1 and WW2 limited Custom Shop run...and rumored to soon offer a Pre-80
Commander version, they may roll-mark the new guns as Series 70 to
let the buying public know that they don't have the Lawyer Parts...but
without the collet bushing, they're not Series 70 guns...They're pre-70s.
Calling them Series 70s is a quick, effective way to announce "No Firing Pin Block".

And now ya know...;)

Cheers!
Tuner

[1911Tuner]

Beat me to the punch! Dang. I gotta type faster.:D
The response is correct. Give the man a big see-gar!

[1911Tuner]

Tamara said:

Let's see: it's not really any lighter, no more concealable, and gives up barrel length and sight radius. What's not to love?

Ahhh, Tamara. You're overlooking the obvious. The Commander was, and is, conceptually a close-quarters defensive piece, and as such, it's strictly
business. As Jeff Cooper noted..."Across a kitchen table, one does not need to be a virtuoso." The Commander isn't a target pistol...It's a fight
stopper.

The shorter sight radius isn't at a disadvantage in this role, and the shorter slide means that it's a shade quicker out of the leather.
Since split seconds often determine who goes home and who doesn't
in these things, that 3/4-inch may well be the decisive factor. Time is
a luxury that we can't afford when we're in the kill zone.

Cheerios, ma'am! (Honey-Nut)

Tuner

[Mal H]

Ok, I see what you mean. The Series 70 did have the new Accurizer (collet) bushing. I didn't think that was the one and only feature that made them a Series 70, but it makes sense. My CC has serial no. 70BS4xxxx which makes it a Series 70 by serialization but not by definition, I guess. Although it's still a cloudy subject with no official Colt's definition.

[Brian D.]

...the better "feel" of a Commander is subjective, indeed, but there's more than a few of us subjects who feel it's better! :cool: Personally, I'd give the edge to the LW version, but it's a real thin edge. Hey, there's room in my abode for all the variations; that L.W. 5" two-tone model I yanked outta the safe to oil yesterday sorta helps prove that assertion, eh? EDIT: I doubt Tamara will much like you calling her a "honey-nut", Tooner...:D

[Tamara]

The Commander isn't a target pistol...It's a fight stopper

...and the 5" 1911 on my hip is what? Chopped liver? :neener:

(Since we're throwing old gun cranks at each other, Elmer Keith would've found any hypothetical nanosecond advantage gained by the Commander-length tube to be laughable. ;) Punkin'. :D )

[Marko Kloos]

You're getting a little doctrinal about those 5" 1911s there, dude. I guess they made all those tens of thousands of CLWs and CCs over the years to decorate store shelves and grace the collections of the ill-informed?

Look, there's no need to pick a 3" barreled K-frame over its 4" equivalent these days, either...some people just prefer the balance of the shorter tube, or they just like the looks of it. You know I'm a fan of the 5" 1911, but variety is the spice of life, nicht wahr?

Don't make me tell the congregation that you're one of three people in the country that actually pine over that plug-ugly 2" N-frame in .45ACP. How much sense does that make, as far as sight radius and ballistics go? Oh, and it doesn't conceal any better than a 4" Mountain Gun, does it? :D

Sometimes rationality doesn't take the driver's seat when it comes to liking or disliking a gun.

[Tamara]

You're getting a little doctrinal about those 5" 1911s there, dude.

Oh, I just think that the shorter slide would make more sense if mated with, say, a lightweight frame, maybe bobbed a little in the grip. Like, for instance, a Kimber Pro Carry. ;)

(I also think that an N-frame wheelie is more likely to be toted OWB than a 1911. Plus, I never pretended to be rational about my love for stubby N-frames, nor did I inquire as to their design purpose. ;) :p )

[oscar]

I have a Combat Commander and a Gold Cup. Therefore you should have 2 also. What could be simpler?

[Shmackey]

Balance.

What the Gov't gains in sight radius the Commander offsets in balance.

[James Bondrock]

"In a technical sense, Series 70 designated the run of pistols that came from
Colt with the collet bushing. Pistols prior to that...both Commander and Government Model...weren't known as "Series" anything, and are correctly
referred to as Pre-Series 70 pistols. Since there has never been a Commander offered as a production item with the collet bushing, there were no
Series 70 Commanders. "


Series 70 Government Models are easily recognizable, as it says "Series 70" on them in large garish letters. ;)

[Longbow]

Balance.

What the Gov't gains in sight radius the Commander offsets in balance.

I'm glad I'm not the only one! I was gonna say that too, but I wasn't sure if that's the real reason for the Commander's existence. :) :) Well, maybe not,.. maybe Colt just wanna jump-in to the compact big bore bandwagon!:D

[Boats]

I have 5" and 4.25" and 4.0" and 3.5" 1911s. I can hide any of them. I prefer the shorter ones because they are easier to sit down with IWB.

[DMK]

I carry IWB, so the difference in slide length is going to be insignificant. Actually the slide length does make some difference in comfort, weight not withstanding. However, like you I think that the grip size makes a bigger difference. That's why I like the CCO. It's got the Commander length slide and an OACP grip length. The perfect combo IMO.

I'd choose a Govt. model over a standard Commander every time.

[BluesBear]

If you check the Colt parts lists for the time period you'll find the collet bushing and matching barrels were listed as the Mark IV barrel and the Mark IV bushing.

That would indicate that the MarkIV designated the collet bushing. But since there was never a 1970's vintage Mark IV that wasn't Series 70 or a Series 70 that wasn't a Mark IV then it's really a moot point.
The Government Models and Gold Cups of the 1970s were all marked Mark IV/Series 70.

There were no Commanders marked MarkIV before the Series 80.

The 1970 era lighweight Commanders were just marked Colt's Commander Model while the all steel ones were marked Colt's Combat Commander or Colt's Combat Commander Model.




Personally the Combat Commander never felt quite right to me. The full size Government feels just right in my hand as does the lightweight Commander.

The only other gun that feels as right to me is a 3" N-frame S&W without the full length underlug.

[355sigfan]

The shorter length may be more usefull in a shoulder rig. The shorter slide and faster cycling of the comander would more than be compensated for by the slight increase in muzzle flip. So its a wash. If a shorter gun were faster It would be running the ISPC world and its clearly not.
Pat

[1911Tuner]

I never called Tamara a honey nut! I was identifyin' my preference for breakfast cereals...when I can't get Cinnamon Crunch Crispix.:D

Okay okay...The 5-incher is a fight stopper, but in the case of the
Commander, Combat Commander, and all the Officer's Model/Defender
class....that's ALL they were meant to be...as opposed to the 5-inch
Gold Cup, f'rinstance. You can use a Gold Cup for a defensive pistol, but
would that be your first choice?

As for nanoseconds being laughable...Ever heard "Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald? One line in it describes things. "And the waves turned the
minutes to hours." I'll take nanoseconds over a sight radius that won't
make a difference at all at 10 feet. Been there, done that. Add a nanosecond to less chance of a fumbled draw when the pucker factor is high...Don't tell me that none of us has ever gone for a 5-inch gun from a
high-ride hip holster at the range and had the end of the slide snag the
top front of the rig...

Balance, the durability to do double duty as a carry pistol and heavy
use at the range...Looks (for some of us) Comfort and ease of IWB
carry when in and out of a car all day...Vertical shoulder rigs! (Never thought of that one, since I don't use them) Less felt recoil and muzzle
flip as compared to the alloy-framed versions...The Combat Commander
has a lot going for it that isn't readily apparent until you live with one and
shoot it for awhile.

Cheerios! (When I don't have any Crispix)

Tuner

[355sigfan]

You can use a Gold Cup for a defensive pistol, but
would that be your first choice?

END

Over the defender yes I would take the Goldcup. I don't trust 1911's with slides shorter than the Commanders. I have seen too many choke.

SNIP
...Don't tell me that none of us has ever gone for a 5-inch gun from a
high-ride hip holster at the range and had the end of the slide snag the
top front of the rig...
END

No not if your draw presentation is correct. I go straite up to the rocked and locked positon then I push out as I was trained. . If you bowl with your pistol it could snag on the holster. Personally I find no flaws with those that prefer the commander. What every works for you. But don't tell me how its so much faster than my full size.
Pat

[1911Tuner]

Over the defender yes I would take the Goldcup. I don't trust 1911's with slides shorter than the Commanders. I have seen too many choke.

In complete agreement there.
----------------------------------------


No not if your draw presentation is correct. I go straite up to the rocked and locked positon then I push out as I was trained. . If you bowl with your pistol it could snag on the holster.

Okay...Practice to perfection, and understand that in a firefight, you'll
do about as well as your worst day at the range. Stress does funny things
to our motor skills, and the stress of an IDPA match is nothing compared to what it is when the stakes are higher. Again...Been there, done that.

My hat is off to the guys with the perfect technique as to presentation,
stance, and grip. As for me, I'll head for cover when the lead flies
and let the trained shooters stand there in a classic Weaver...as they've
trained to do. Very few of us have enough ice water running in our veins
to allow us to stand stock still and shoot when we're in the cross-hairs.
If you're one of those, you have my deepest admiration and respect.
Me? I ain't no Bill Hickock or Doc Holliday.

Be of good cheer and mindful of your six...
Tuner

[fastbolt]

I once had a nice blued Commander ... which I foolishly traded off for a blued Combat Commander. I was young & foolish (Okay, and in many more ways than one, but that's off the subject).

I've owned a fair number of 1911's ... real ones, Colts ;) ... in 5", 4 1/4" & 3 1/2" barreled models ... and shot a LOT more of them, including the ultra lightweight 3" stubbies. :scrutiny:

Nothing beats a full size 5" 1911 for balance and "pointability", and retains a fair semblance of controllability ... except a Commander sized model. The steel framed model sometimes feels as though it possesses just a bit more mass to "shove around" in multiple target engagement situations, but it also seems to "balance" onto target a bit better when the world is slowing syrupy-like around you ... for ME. The LW model is fast, no doubt about it, and lightweight, and moves nimbly ... but it's also just a bit less "mannered" amidst the smoke and furor. Just enough to notice, sometimes ... ;)

All things considered, the full size 1911 can offer a time-tested balance of many desirable attributes ... with the possible exception of holstered/seated ease for those of us that are just a little bit under 6 foot. On the other hand, that slight sensation of "discomfort" is magically transformed into "comfort" when things get a bit fast & fuzzy ... :uhoh:

I've proven to ME ... my priority ... that I CAN use the Officers Model with full strength ammunition, and perform as "acceptably" with the short pistol as I can with the full size pistol ... but I DO have to put a little more effort into the task.

Okay, MORE than a little more effort. :neener: Anyway ...

The Commander, in either frame material, takes less "effort" than the little gun, in either frame material ... and still feels as though it's "faster" to track among targets than the full size gun. Certainly no slower ... and then there's that 12-16 hour day "comfort" thing, while frequently getting up & sitting down with the just-shorter-enough 4 1/4" barreled gun ...

I think that a "brace" of 1911's, one each in both 5" & 4 1/4" barreled models, would provide a reasonable opportunity to satisfy just about any of the "problems" that would require a .45 ACP ...

Carry it all day & night, and don't generally expect to use it, but CAN, if needed (more carry than use)? LW Commander ...

Carry it all day & night, and not in the best of comfort, but anticipate you might really need it? Full size 1911 ...

Carry it all day & night, but want a bit more comfort, AND yet still want a decent balance of size, weight & controllability ... and perhaps just a skosh more "ease" tracking among threat targets? Combat Commander ...

Now about that 5" ALUMINUM framed 1911 ... ;)

[355sigfan]

Okay...Practice to perfection, and understand that in a firefight, you'll
do about as well as your worst day at the range. Stress does funny things
to our motor skills, and the stress of an IDPA match is nothing compared to what it is when the stakes are higher. Again...Been there, done that.
END

Been there in real life and had to draw down on people. Fortuanately I have not had to go past that with a firearm. Never have had a problem with my presentation, because I practice. I try to do at least 20 presentations a day during dry fire.
Pat

[1911Tuner]

Been there in real life and had to draw down on people. Fortuanately I have not had to go past that with a firearm. Never have had a problem with my presentation, because I practice. I try to do at least 20 presentations a day during dry fire.
Pat

Ah! Understood and appreciated, sir. Did your presentation come as
a threat response...or after the first round cracked past your ear?
Again...world of difference. Not to diminish your experience of course.
Just to share a few points of the game. Have I shot for blood? Yes.

[355sigfan]

A threat response.
Pat

[1911Tuner]

A threat response.
Pat

Pray that it never gets past that. Thanks for doing what you do.
God bless and keep you safe, Pat.

Johnny

[Sean Smith]

The Combat Commander has certain virtues. Just because you don't think they are enough to offset its vices doesn't mean the virtues ain't there. Most of them have already been noted (e.g. nice ballance and subjective feel, ease of draw, slight weight reduction). A couple other points:

Some folks commented on how if it is carried IWB, the shorter slide doesn't do you any good. I'd suggest that that is only true if you never sit down. Think comfort as opposed to concealability factor. Also, not everyone carrying is 5'12" tall like Tamara. ;)

Further, if you have the odd desire to actually shoot your Commander a great deal, steel will always outlast aluminum... especially for a frame designed for steel from the drawing board.

Note that I don't even own a commander yet, just an even heavier-than-usual 5" Colt.

[BigG]

The old Pre Enhanced Commanders had the enviable trait of biting the hell out of my hand with their abbreviated grip safety tang, despite the rowel hammer. ;)

Originally, "Series 70" meant the collet bushing and a general cheapening of the piece. Compare a Series 70 marked Colt with the preceding model marked Government Model and you'll note the corners that were cut. The Series 80 appears to have better quality control than the old Series 70, in my book.

I have a Colt Concealed Carry Model that combines the Cdr slide with an alloy Ofcr frame with all the high speed mods and parts. Combines the best of all worlds for concealed carry in 45 ACP flavor.

[45auto]

For certain people, Sean Smith hit the nail on the head. The inch difference is a lot when you(me) sit down.

The 3" would be even better, for carry, but I haven't shot enough through one to personally determine the reliability, and I don't hear/read great things about them. Oh well!!

[Shmackey]

That explains why Ed Brown has to sell those terribly unpopular Kobra Carry models at bargain-basement prices. :)

[1911Tuner]

Schmackey asked:

Commanders problematic?

Some of'em can be...Not nearly as often as the shorter pistols, but
once in a while I butt heads with a problem child. Just like with the 5-inch guns, though...It's usually somethin' simple.

[surfinUSA]

I've always found the commanders, either LW or steel frame to be just right. I've never cared for either the longer or shorter 1911s. However, I prefer the SIG 220 to all of them.

[Harold Mayo]

I guess I's a lil' slow...

A Commander that says "Series 70" on the slide isn't actually a Series 70 because of the bushing and that's it? Then why does it say "Series 70" on the slide...?:uhoh: :confused:

[Mute]

I'll bite. The Combat Commander is what a 1911 should be! :D :D :D :D

I've always found the balance of the Combat Commander to be, in a word, PERFECT! Faster, smoother and just plain right for me. YMMV.

[Edward429451]

Kind of odd. My dad has had combat commanders for a looong time. I haven't seen it in awhile but I do have the distinct reccollection of it saying series 70 on the slide.

They might clear leather faster, I can see that. Might they cycle a couple milliseconds faster also??

[Sean Smith]

I guess I's a lil' slow...

A Commander that says "Series 70" on the slide isn't actually a Series 70 because of the bushing and that's it? Then why does it say "Series 70" on the slide...?

HINT: There were no Commander models made that said "Series 70" on them. ;)

[fastbolt]

Hmmm ...

Never gave it much thought, and haven't carried it or taken it out of the safe for quite a while ... but my Combat Commander is roll marked Colt's Combat Commander on the right side of the slide, and Combat Commander Colt Automatic Caliber .45 on the left side ... and the serial number starts with a 70B ... No "Series 70" this, that or the other, though.

What does that make it? ;) (A Combat Commander with the Commander barrel bushing and no Series-80 safety)

By the way, I have an Officers Model that worked okay stock, but after the head armorer at work finished working on it (after I shot a couple of the 1911's on which he'd lavished his attention and craft, I became envious) it became a NICE pistol.

Also, a friend had a newer OM that simply wouldn't feed hardball out of the box, and a couple of trips to a gunsmith for warranty work didn't resolve the problem.

The 1911 armorer at work did his magic on it, and in the process replaced every part except the frame, barrel, slide & sights (factory sights had already been replaced with night sights by the previous gunsmith). He cussed a bit over the barrel & slide fit, and found it difficult to believe it had left the factory in that condition, but he got it up and running reliably. The pistol cracked a King's bushing a little over 10,000 rounds later. After a new bushing was fitted to the pistol he fired a bit over another 10,000 rounds before retiring it to the safe in favor of a pair of SW99's in 9mm & .40 S&W ... the lure of lightweight plastic for constant carry ... and he's fired even more trouble free rounds through each of those pistols, individually, than he'd fired through the OM.

A couple of our folks have bought the latest production of the shorty Colt's over the last couple of years, and they seem to have experienced reliable performance when shooting them in stock condition.

OM's are nice little pistols, and I'll keep mine ... and I fired a LW OM belonging to the 1911 armorer that had been slightly modified & tuned, and was a NICE little pistol ... but I still prefer a Combat Commander or Government Model, depending on the chores anticipated.

My agency is reviewing and considering a Policy change which would allow the optional carry (on duty) of personally owned weapons, including 1911's. If it's approved, I might consider turning in my other 2 issued weapons in favor of returning to carrying a 1911 ... which would give me an excuse to buy that SW1911 I've been considering. The one purchased by the head armorer has proven itself to be simply a terrific example of the design ... ACCURATE, reliable, well balanced and impressively finished. Like I NEED to buy another weapon right now ... :rolleyes:

[Harold Mayo]

Still a little slow. Must come from having moved to rural Arkansas.

So...do I need to flip it over and see where it says COMBAT Commander...?

[C. H. Luke]

"Snagging" the top of the holster whether at the Range or in
a Deadly Force encounter is an equipment &/or technique problem.
Has noting to to with bbl. length at all.

[EricO]

Tamara wrote, "You carry IWB, so it's about as useful as teats on a boar hog.

(Let's see: it's not really any lighter, no more concealable, and gives up barrel length and sight radius. What's not to love? )"

Ok, first of all, we're only talking about 3/4" in barrel length. The cmndr. length's barrel is still as long as, or longer than many other defensive handguns. If you judged every handgun from what you mentioned above, than what of these different sized handguns- S & W 4506, 4566, 4516 (all with smaller sized barrels). Should we all carry + 5" barrelled Glock model 34 & 35's instead of model 17, 22, and 21's because of the longer radius? Are model 17, 22, and 21's useless because of the smaller lengths? (No anti Glock comments here, it's for argument sake, sheeez)

<<Some folks seem to think it's the best gun ever made by Colt, others think it's about as useful as teats on a boar. Any thoughts on the pros and cons of the Combat Commander?>>

I think what matters most regarding this is what you personally feel about the Cmbt. Cmndr.

EricO

[ACP230]

My 9mm and .45 Combat Commanders have a niche. Right between my Officer's ACP and my full-size 1911s.

I have a couple of Combat Commanders, an old veteran 1911 .45, and a custom pin gun made with a Caspian slide and a Para Ordnace frame.
I could get along without the Commanders, but I would rather not have to.

My son, 11, has shot the 9mm Combat Commander and likes it.
He hasn't shot my .45 pistols yet. So the 9mm Combat Commander is useful in teaching the young gunner too.

I may use it for IDPA sometime because I can shoot cheap 9mm ammo, but have the same feel as my .45s.

[fastbolt]

Oh yeah, I certainly agree that drawing & presentation ... with ANY barrel length weapon ... is a training issue. Plain & simple.

Personally, one of my preferred concealment holsters is the excellent Hume H726 Semi-Open Front holster, which allows the slide/muzzle to clear after the weapon is drawn little more than an inch, vertically. It's secure, having a thumb snap retention strap ... but FAST ... both on & off the range, regardless of the barrel length preferred ... and it's very comfortable for 12-18 hour days, especially seated in different chairs, behind the wheel, etc.. Uniform holsters simply require dedicated practice, presuming a reasonable & decent quality design ... with anybody's service length barrels, which can encompass 4"- 5" barrels ... and I won't wear a level III anything (but that's another subject).

[1911Tuner]

Luke said:

Snagging" the top of the holster whether at the Range or in
a Deadly Force encounter is an equipment &/or technique problem.
Has noting to to with bbl. length at all.

No question there...but having been shot AT more than a few times, I stand
by the axiom: "In a fight, you'll do about as well as your worst day at the range." Stress being the wild card, draws get fumbled...safeties too.
Triggers get jerked before the sights are aligned, etc. World of difference
between practicing perfect technique on the range and actually doing it
when the air is full of lead intended for you.

There are some who are as cool and collected as Hickock, Earp, or
Cirillo...present the piece, line up the front sight, and press the
trigger to a compressed surprise break...but the fumble factor is there for
most of us. Less slide or barrel that has to clear leather means less chance of it catching on the rig. No guarantees...just less chance. I
like to stack all the odds in my favor that I can.

Cheers!

Tuner

[cleve land]

In many years of owning and shooting Colt 1911's the Combat Comander is the only one I ever sold because it offered no advantage over a full size.It had no advantage over a lightweight Comander or Officer either. In fact the steel framed Officer at least made sense size wise. That has been my experience.;)

[Archie]

Then the 1911A1 (or Government Model in civilian finish), then the Commander in 1949 or so. Slide and barrel shortened .75" and an alloy frame for 12 ounces of weight reduction.

The Government Model was for belt use, the Commander for concealed use.

Then came "Combat Shooting" (not to be confused with "Police Pistol Combat") and a gentleman named Armand Swenson. Somewhere in the early '60s, Swenson began cutting Government Models down to Commander size. This was for two reasons: Balance and longevity.
Swen did a couple other things, too. Squared off the trigger guard, installed S&W sights, hard chrome finishes... and called it either the "Bobcat"or "Super Bobcat".

Colt decided to get in on the act, and started making the Commander in a steel frame, calling it the "Combat Commander". Somewhere around 1970, give or take a year.

Me, I've never had use for the Combat Commander. It's the weight that makes the Commander easier to hide. If I have the full weight, I might as well have that extra sight radius. (I have carried a Commander with a full length barrel. Makes people wonder.) The CC is neither fish nor fowl to me. But there's lots of folks who disagree. I can live with it.

Oddly.... at about the same time that Swen was making Bobcats, another fellow in Louisiana was welding two slides together and making longslide guns. Jimmy Clark was his name, and the intended use was for NRA 2700 bullseye shooting. Those long guns caught on with the combat shooters and were the rage for awhile.

But Colt never made a production longslide gun. Perhaps they didn't want to re-tool?

[1911Tuner]

Ahh...Swenson. Magnifique! I've handled a few "Swenguns".

[Black Majik]

Combat Commander...what's its niche?

Because its a Colt ;)

[Majic]

C.H. Luke, if the barrel length dictates the slide length, then doesn't if qualifies as part of your equipment? Or do you not consider the handgun part of the equipment?

[71Commander]

I am the fortunate owner of a series 70 Commander. I have had it for 30 years. Serial number begins 70S XXXXX:D

[71Commander]

Other side:D :D


After reading the posts regarding the collet bushings, i'm not so sure:confused:

[BluesBear]

TennTucker,

I'll bet you a dollar to a doughnut that nowhere on that fine looking electroless nickle pistol of yours will you find the words "Series 70".

Doesn't matter how the serial number starts. There were no Colt Commanders marked "Series 70" just as there were no pre-80 series Commanders marked Mark IV.

The Colt collet bushing was ONLY on the full size Government and Gold Cup models. The Colt Commander bushings in all flavors have always been shorter that the full sized ones.
There were a few custom smiths making custom short collet bushings and fitting them to commander length barrels but it was never done by Colt.

[Sean Smith]

I'll bet you a dollar to a doughnut that nowhere on that fine looking electroless nickle pistol of yours will you find the words "Series 70".

Bingo. If it was Series 70, it would say so right on the gun. That's not so tough, is it? ;)

[BigG]

Hey, a doughnut costs a dollar these days. What about $10 to a doughnut? ;)

[BluesBear]

Wow Big G even out here in overpriced Seattle a genuine Krispy Kreme is only about 50¢ and the even better chocolate glazed from Albertson's are 3 for $1.

[1911Tuner]

Here is a link that should settle the dispute. Scroll down to the response
by dsk. Dana is the resident historian and expert on Colt production
from the beginning to the present.



http://www.1911forum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=66426

Be of good cheer and mindful of your...serial numbers!:cool:

Tuner

[FPrice]

My dealer has a NIB nickled Combat Commander on his wall. Every time I do in there I take it down and fondle it. It just feels good in my hand. It has a good heft to it, balances well, has a good trigger pull. It may not make much sense or have a real niche, but then, what's wrong with that?

I do NOT need a(nother) nickled gun.

But it does feel good in my hand.

[Edward429451]

I stand corrected. The roll marks on my dads commander's looked just like on tenntuckers, and that doesn't say series 70. I look at too many guns I guess.

:o :D

[Delmar]

A question about the CC's barrel bushing-why are they so short? Is this a barrel lug/hood clearance issue?
An odd statement from Colt-a good friend of mine bought a NRM Government model and we took it shooting. Good shooter as Colts tend to be lately.
Brought it back to the house for cleaning, and this pistol came from the factory with the shorter commander length barrel bushing. My friend called Colt and advised them of the odd bushing in his pistol, and the CS agent told him it was normal. Anyone else out there run into this?

[1911Tuner]

The question was:

A question about the CC's barrel bushing-why are they so short?

To keep it from crashing into the front locking lug when the slide
recoils. Drop a GM-length bushing into a Commander and hand-cycle
it to see the difference in slide travel. Do NOT shoot it like that.

The frame rails are set back .100 inch farther on a Commander, and the
front of the lower barrel lug is different, too.

Cheers!

Tuner

[71Commander]

What is the length(depth) of a CC bushing ? Anyone.

Can a GM NM bushing be milled off to the proper length, or would that compromise its structual integrity ?:confused:

[1911Tuner]

TennTucker asked:

What is the length(depth) of a CC bushing ? Anyone.

It varies with the thickness of the flange, but an OAL of about .535-.540
inch is in the ballpark. Not sure what the print dimensions are, but the tolerance is pretty generous.

Can a GM NM bushing be milled off to the proper length, or would that compromise its structual integrity ?

Yes. I've used a lathe and a mandrel to cut GM bushings down to fit in
Commanders. Some of the old GI National Match bushings were so hard
as to almost defy machining, though. You'll need a good cemented carbide
cutter, a rigid set-up and oplenty of cutting fluid to do it. Aftermarket
"Gunsmith Fit" bushings are much easier to cut. When I cut them, I
compare the OAL length of a stock Commander bushing, plug in the difference in flange thickness, and match the OAL on the one being cut.
About a 5-minute job that any machine shop can handle if you don't have
access to a lathe.

Cheers!
Tuner

[James Bondrock]

"Yes. I've used a lathe and a mandrel to cut GM bushings down to fit in
Commanders. Some of the old GI National Match bushings were so hard
as to almost defy machining, though. You'll need a good cemented carbide
cutter, a rigid set-up and oplenty of cutting fluid to do it. Aftermarket
"Gunsmith Fit" bushings are much easier to cut. When I cut them, I
compare the OAL length of a stock Commander bushing, plug in the difference in flange thickness, and match the OAL on the one being cut.
About a 5-minute job that any machine shop can handle if you don't have
access to a lathe."



Why not just buy the right bushing?
;)

[1911Tuner]

Well...If I've got a pistol on the bench with a cracked bushing because the owner dropped in a new recoil spring and shot the pistol without checking for coil bind...and it's 10 PM on a Sunday night...and the guy is due to start his CCW class first thing in the AM...and I've got a drawer fulla GM bushings but not one for a Commander, and a lathe...:D We can make do.

CHEERS!
Tuner

[71Commander]

Why not just buy the right bushing?
-----------------------------------------------------------

Was not aware of different bushing lengths. I have had this one in for 20 years. I've shot it about one session every few months. Haven't had a problem, but if it's not right, I want to make it so.

[1911Tuner]

Howdy Tenn,

If it was a GM bushing in a Commander, it would have broken the slide
and damaged the barrel's locking lugs within one magazine, and possibly
on the first shot. If it's been there for 20 years, you're golden.

Luck to ya!

Tuner

[71Commander]

I remember buying this bushing. I got it at a gun show and paid. I believe $5.00. I was spicifically looking for a bushing that had NM on the front, which this one does.

Did they make a match bushing for the CC back then. I don't recall the gut at the gun show asking me what weapon I had, but hey! that was a long time ago and access to info wasn't like it is today.

Looks like i'm going to have to take it out a measure it:mad: But that's O.K. as I bought a new bushing and had to take it out anyway. My new one is at work though. I'll let you know what the length is.

[Majic]

Yes they do make National Match (NM) bushings in the Commander length.
If you had a GM length bushing your pistol probably wouldn't have survived the first few shots. Most likely would have jammed on the first shot.

[1911Tuner]

Majic said:

If you had a GM length bushing your pistol probably wouldn't have survived the first few shots.

Yup...It woulda busted the front end of the slide slap off if it would have even fed the first round. The bushing would have contacted the front
locking lug some .200 inch short of full travel...the impact shock would have been transferred to the small raceway in the front of the slide, and it would
have let go within a few rounds. The locking lug would have been damaged too. Either you got lucky or the guy heard you say something
about a Commander.

The length, including the thickness of the flange will be in the .525-.545
range. If the flange is thicker than Colt spec...which some aftermarket
bushings are...it could go as high as .560 inch.

Standin' by...
Tuner

[Sniper X]

Yesterday I was in my fav gunshop looking at a cherry Colt Combat Commander that said Series 70 on the slide....so if none were ever made, why does this one say Series 70 Combat Commander on the slide? Is it really a pre series 80 Combat commander? Or what? It is 100% original, like new condition, box and papers for $650.00...should I go buy it today?

[EricO]

Necro-post! :eek: Brought up from the depths!

[Lonestar.45]

Holy Thread Resurrection Batman! :what:

[NORTEXED]

I do now and have always loved the balance of the Combat Commander. It just feels right in your hand. I bought mine new in 75 through a friend before I got my FFL, to carry at work as private security at an electronics firm in the metroplex. Back then, you could carry on private property without a security guard license. Fortunately, never had to unholster it, but 1 night it got close. A drunk truckdriver whose estranged wife worked there, showed up "looking" for her. He told me that no matter how big I was, he could "take me", and I told him I believed him enough that if it came to that, I would shoot him till he stopped. He looked at the .45 and said he liked my honesty, strolled out and never came back. I have always qualified with it for my CCW, and carry it on rare occasions, usually opting for the P32 out of laziness in a pocket. It's still my pride and joy though. Had the slide industrial teflon coated years ago by a friend in Houston, and I like the black slide with satin Nickel frame. It has MMC adjustable rear, long trigger, and flat mainspring because after years of trial and error, they fit me. The seriel No. starts with 70, and it is a shooter ;)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v368/NORTEXED/Colt.jpg

[CajunBass]

Someone must have found this the same way I did. I did a search for Colt Commander, and there it was. I didn't realize there was anything current on it until I got to the end. :D