I spoke with victims of a anti gun government


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The Sarge
September 29, 2010, 08:04 AM
Rather sobering.
I went to the range yesterday to site in my shotgun (rifled slugs @ 100 yards),
While there, a gentleman walked over behind me....very polite and non intrusive.
I had finished the job at hand and was taking off my hearing protection and he apologized for watching over my shoulder. Obvious to me he was British.

He was interested in the Saiga 12 gauge I had modified. We spoke to the gun for a minute. He told me of the new laws in the UK. How criminals are now into home invasions etc. Violent crimes in London has all but closed certain parts of the city. People are defenseless. He noted I had my S&W 38 on my hip that I carry concealed (range is open carry)...and said he and his wife would feel so much more safe if they could carry legally.

The conversation was very sobering and downright scary. People sitting in fear in their homes....cannot go out to the show/dinner for fear of gangs roaming the streets knowing full well their victims will be defenseless.

We as Americans must never let this happen in our country folks. The Anti Gun people are out there and are very real. I myself, have maybe, been lulled into a false comfort that it will never happen here.

My resolve is stronger than ever to participate, donate, join and actively participate in our RTKBA.

Just wanted to share......my heart goes out to our British cousins who have a uphill battle on their hands to get their rights to protect themselves back from the left wing anti gunners.

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mcdonl
September 29, 2010, 08:08 AM
Sarge, I have faith. I also have some concern... both about the same thing... radicals...

Radicals, on both sides of the argument are why we have maintained most of our 2nd amendment rights. I am concerned, because they are dwindling in certain parts of the country but all-in-all radicals are bad at getting things done. That is good for us with existing rights, but on our side of the ball... the good side... the people fighting the fight need to come off less radical. Let the anti's play the role of doom and gloom.

lonegunman
September 29, 2010, 09:24 AM
About ten years ago I let a couple of Singapore try a Garand and carbine at a local range. They were both thrilled and had seen the guns in books and on TV shows. In Singapore getting caught with a firearm was a death penalty offense and self-defense could get you a longer prison term than murderers got for killing you.

Domineaux
September 29, 2010, 09:40 AM
I work for a UK company and when I talk to the owners about guns, I am amazed at how little they understand about guns and the concept of self defense. It is very unfortunate for the people of the UK (and most countries) that the entire concept of armed defense has been trained out of them so that all they feel they can do is be a helpless victim.

I feel that more and more, we in the USA must set a shining example for the rest of the world and open the eyes of the law abiding folks so they know that a better way is possible.

Sky
September 29, 2010, 10:18 AM
Yep +10 The facts are so obvious about a disarmed populous.

For us I fear some group of gun toating individuals will declare war on the U.S. government like the Red brigade or name half a dozen other 60s group and start shooting. Government says "that's it" and no more guns.

Good news we still have guns and the 60s are long gone.

Some believe a government will and can do a false flag type operation to meet some sort of nefarious goals and has evidently happened before.

Those who say from my cold dead hands will get their epitaph fulfilled if the First Cav or the 101st is directed to a local area for gun confiscation. Katrina? Bet there were some cold dead hand people there but they gave up their guns. Bluster and words in a comfortable environment is easy. Make them uncomfortable and they just wanna go home to mommy or the wife and kids.

Let us hope those who serve us in government will use common sense and look at some of the facts pertaining to gun ownership and leave our second amendment rights alone.

Even back in the long forgotten days of my patriotic war we had buttons that could be pushed to make people/city blocks and even towns disappear.

Yet today there are very few answers to be had for some of the scenarios when dealing with bad guys/gangs..... Mexico...Boarder...Iraq....Afganistan....Kill a few but there are always more to take their place....

We need to elect pro 2d amendment people into office but even at that you have to wonder what some liberal lawsuit that falls on the steps of the supreme court will have on the 2d in the future?.... To early need coffee!

alohachris
September 29, 2010, 12:52 PM
Britian doesn't even have freedom of speech. It's common to silence the opposition there by suing for libel, even if what they said was true. Google "ASBO". And you'll get an idea of Britian's idea of 'rights'.

luigi
September 29, 2010, 12:59 PM
We spoke to the gun for a minute.

Did the gun speak back?

SpamHandler
September 29, 2010, 04:31 PM
Did the gun speak back?

I'm also waiting for his 'report'.

Erik M
September 29, 2010, 05:44 PM
Ive spoken with a UK citizen that was here in the states in my college days, he says that even defensive knives are illegal now days. the Government statement is "save a life, bin that knife". Apparently bin means trash across the pond. Maybe in a fanatic, I would be scared out of my wits if not only all my guns were confiscated but also all of my knives.

stchman
September 29, 2010, 07:04 PM
Oh come one, the UK has to be one of the safest places on the planet. I mean if there is tight gun control then thugs will have to hand over their guns to the law. Thugs obey the law, correct?

Lateck
September 29, 2010, 07:12 PM
Remember Mexico has gun control.......
Go live a week in Cd. Juarez (across from Texas).

Lateck,

HOOfan_1
September 29, 2010, 07:24 PM
For us I fear some group of gun toating individuals will declare war on the U.S. government like the Red brigade or name half a dozen other 60s group and start shooting. Government says "that's it" and no more guns.

Good news we still have guns and the 60s are long gone.

Some believe a government will and can do a false flag type operation to meet some sort of nefarious goals and has evidently happened before.

Those who say from my cold dead hands will get their epitaph fulfilled if the First Cav or the 101st is directed to a local area for gun confiscation. Katrina? Bet there were some cold dead hand people there but they gave up their guns. Bluster and words in a comfortable environment is easy. Make them uncomfortable and they just wanna go home to mommy or the wife and kids.




Don't forget what the British troops were going to do on April 19, 1775 in Massachusetts.

This is one of the reasons why our founding fathers penned the Second Amendment, and one of the reasons why the "you don't need that gun to hunt with" is one of the dumbest anti-gun arguments ever.

Old krow
September 29, 2010, 08:03 PM
I feel that more and more, we in the USA must set a shining example for the rest of the world and open the eyes of the law abiding folks so they know that a better way is possible.

I couldn't agree more.

We as Americans must never let this happen in our country folks. The Anti Gun people are out there and are very real

Here are the latest statistics that I could find (worth looking at) about RKBA and the perceptions about it. I'm actually pretty picky about these polls as I have studied stats for a bit, this seems like it's a fairly accurate one.

73% of American believe that we have the right to bear arms.
20% believes that the right only applies to the militia.
7% had no opinion.

In the same poll:
49% believed that we needed more strict gun laws
38% believed we should leave them as they are (or enforce the ones we have)
11% believe in less strict gun laws.

68% of American's oppose a law that would ban handguns
30% are in favor of a law that would ban handguns

For anyone interested, for 374 gun owners and 630 non-gun owners the error rates 4% and 6% respectively.

That's where we stand, although is it an older poll, they at least released how they derived their answers instead of scribbling a bunch of numbers down while telling me it is the gospel.

I've been to the UK, and was married to a woman from the UK for a while. I wouldn't speak for them by any means, but I do not think that they could produce the same numbers. Her perception of gun was pretty scary. She would have believed a dictionary of guns if hollywood had have made it.

oneounceload
September 29, 2010, 08:04 PM
As someone who has English friends (NOT Brits), they mention the same thing - rampant crime by various groups of immigrants, including the use of knives and razors to attack folks; hence the current thought processes to make possession of kitchen knives illegal and strictly controlled.............

MIgunguy
September 29, 2010, 08:38 PM
I remember reading this on this very forum, in the thread about gun owners in foreign countries:

we do not come under the UK,we have our own Govt,we are also not part of the EU.We are British subjects of the Queen of England,but not represented to or part of the UK Govt,having no MPs either in the UK or the EU.All our firearms are registered,and have to be kept in a secure place,which is inspected by our Police,but they are very reasonable & helpful towards shooters & collectors,but woe unto you if you let the side down,drink driving,petty crime of any sort etc & you lose your lic for life.They also like you to have a reasonably sized collection,as they know the value of a persons collection makes them think twice before risking losing them all over something stupid.

The poster was from the Channel Islands (British Crown Dependency). I don't understand how one can get it so right (relatively speaking) and the other (UK, and Australia from what I understand) can get it so wrong, especially when they have a common history and form of government (maybe it has to do with population, too many libtards in Britain and Australia with their populations of multi-millions while the Channel Islands is only 65,000.... maybe it has to do with the fact that they were occupied by Germany for most of WWII)

Carl N. Brown
September 29, 2010, 08:49 PM
Before the 1920 Firearms Act, Britain had the lowest murder rate of its history. Since then, with every gun act, its crime rates and in particular gun crime rates, have gone up (not down) but the British authorities are very proud that their gun crime rate is lower than that of the United States, even though the British gun crime rate is higher than it was before they started passing their gun laws. Also telling is that British violent crime such as home invasion robbery and attacks by young thugs on old people and females are more common in Britain than in the US, and have increased in Britain as guns and self defense have been criminalised.

Hanzo581
September 29, 2010, 08:56 PM
I don't know what you all are talking about, banning guns in areas works.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7pGt_O1uM8&feature=player_embedded

oldbanjo
September 29, 2010, 08:56 PM
In Britain you can't attack a BG in your house in any manner, the Police will protect you. In the US the Police are not required to protect you so you must protect yourself.

EddieNFL
September 29, 2010, 09:20 PM
People sitting in fear in their homes....cannot go out to the show/dinner for fear of gangs roaming the streets knowing full well their victims will be defenseless.

Don't have to leave the US to find that. Chicago, DC, LA, Oakland...virtually any city with "progressives" in charge come to mind.

russ69
September 29, 2010, 10:17 PM
..."save a life, bin that knife". Apparently bin means trash across the pond.

Bin is short for the trash bin. In other words, throw it away.

Thanx, Russ

JellyJar
September 29, 2010, 10:18 PM
As Great Britain is a democracy they have no one to blame but themselves.

oldbanjo
September 29, 2010, 11:14 PM
I sure am glad that Canada isn't going to allow what happened in Britain and Australia.

Route666
September 30, 2010, 01:29 AM
Yeh it's terrible here is Australia what with all the fear of leaving the house and guns being banned. Anyways, I'm off to the club with my new 686 to have a blast...

Leanwolf
September 30, 2010, 01:36 AM
I have some friends in London, England, and my wife and I have visted them a couple of times. We've been told the same as others here have related. There are many areas where the "yobs" the thugs and criminals control the streets, the night and even at times, the day. The police don't even bother to try and control the criminals.

And of course, for all practical purposes, self defense is outlawed.

As much as we've enjoyed parts of England, Scotland, etc., (both I and my wife are decendants of Scots and English ancestors) you couldn't pay me to live there.

As a side note, there is an interesting movie, however, about a man who takes on the "yobs" in London. "Harry Brown," starring Michael Caine. Rent it if you have a chance.

L.W.

labhound
September 30, 2010, 01:53 AM
Its hard to believe that a country that was nearly conquered by Germany in WWII would basically disarm its citizens. Amazing!

T2K
September 30, 2010, 05:59 AM
I live in Singapore and yes, it's the death penalty for possession of a firearm in the commission of a crime. Just possessing a firearm or ammunition would be a long prison sentence, at least 10 years. Having said that, there is almost no serious crime here.
Disarmed citizens don't always equal high crime, Japan being another example. Frankly, it's more about the people than the guns. Of course, if the governements of these countries veered towards tyranny or totalitarianism, the people would have no recourse.

Also, all English are British. All British are not English.

dwhite
September 30, 2010, 07:56 PM
I was reading somewhere that purchasing a set of steak knives in Ireland or Scotland now requires the purchaser to be photographed and some amount of paperwork to be filled out. It's really crazy.

Next the government will have to require all meat sold to be ground so you don't need a knife to cut it. Of course this won't apply to the ruling class.

All the Best,
D. White

Domineaux
September 30, 2010, 09:23 PM
Next the government will have to require all meat sold to be ground so you don't need a knife to cut it. Of course this won't apply to the ruling class.

Quick, patent that idea before they use it...lol

HOOfan_1
October 1, 2010, 12:25 AM
I live in Singapore... Of course, if the governements of these countries veered towards tyranny


I'd say with some of the laws Singapore has, they are nearly already there...

TexasBill
October 1, 2010, 04:05 AM
Back in the early 19th Century, England had a similar problem to that which it faces now. Citizens didn't go out at night; dinner parties often involved an overnight stay as the streets and roads were unsafe. That was when Robert Peel formed the Metropolitan Police. While the "bobbies" weren't usually armed with anything more than a club and a whistle, they could count on aid from armed citizens.

However, the belief that the English police have always been unarmed is a myth. From the beginning, the Metropolitan Police force has had firearms, starting with 50 flintlock pistols, which were eventually replaced by revolvers. Until 1936, Metropolitan Police officers in the outer districts could carry handguns if they wished. A supply of revolvers was maintained for this purpose. While he was a fictional character, one might remember Inspector Lestrade from the Sherlock Holmes stories who, whe asked if he was armed, said, "If I have my pants, I have a pocket. If I have a pocket, I have something in it."

Today, a significant number of English police officers are visibly armed. For the first time of which I am aware, the question is being raised as to whether all sworn officers should be armed with at least a pistol. Public sentiment and the majority of police officers are against arming all officers but the influx of foreigners and the youth gangs that have been a long-standing problem in England are spawning more confrontations between unarmed police officers and armed criminals. The question that must be asked is how many police officers the country is willing to sacrifice to maintain the "tradition" of unarmed officers. While the total number of police casualties is small compared to the United States, it is large compared to England's own experience.

One of the factors the English either forget or ignore is that many of the immigrants that have changed English society come from countries where the police and criminals have always been armed; guns were a daily part of life. Incidentally, the police in Singapore, which has a low crime rate, are armed with Taurus revolvers that replaced S&W M36 J-frames with 3-inch barrels. In addition, a variety of factors have made Britain's home-grown gangs and younger criminals more likely to acquire and use firearms, something that appears to be little more difficult in England than it is anywhere else.

Frankly, arming of police could be a non-issue. The traditional appearance of the police constable could be maintained by simply carrying concealed firearms (a whole new twist on "don't ask; don't tell). There's never been anything in the rule book that said an officer's sidearm must be a large handgun carried in a prominent holster and there's certainly no shortage of suitable pistols. It would also give the lawless element some pause as criminals could no longer be sure they would be up against just pepper spray or perhaps a taser. It would also give the individual officer the choice, just as was true until the 1930s, without compromising that uncertainty. While we think police officers should be armed as a matter of course, a lot of British police officers really don't want t carry guns and a small percentage would rather resign than be required to go armed.

In the end, the English will have to make their own decisions about the best method to reclaim their cities and lifestyle. Since guns are now a part of English crime, they are going to have to be part of the English response. Whether that means assuming responsibility for their own well-being and repealing laws against civilian ownership of lethal weapons or placing the responsibility on their police services and equipping them accordingly is something that will have to play out over time.

Ragnar Danneskjold
October 1, 2010, 05:29 AM
It is the course of all human government to seek more control. And one of the surest ways to consolidate the most control is to make the citizenry totally dependent on the government. I would bet most anti-gun laws stem from that sentiment. Those in government do not like citizens who can take care of themselves, for they are more difficult to control. You see any law, program, or social institution set up by a government that allows people to depend on the government for some aspect of their life, and you're seeing a government that is expanding its control.

This is also why statism and leftism go so well together. Statism seeks to control. Leftism promotes dependence which is the primary conduit of control.

Boberama
October 1, 2010, 06:31 AM
http://www.remotecontrol.merseyblogs.co.uk/zzedsk060109rosskempcroxteth3.jpg

I remembered this pic, but the British newspaper recently blurred the swords and knives! What the...?
Why do you censor knives???!:what:

Here, found the original. BUT WHY DID THEY BLUR OUT THE KNIVES??!?
http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00559/SNF2130B_682_559879a.jpg

Boberama
October 1, 2010, 06:38 AM
By the way, it's a British street gang.

IT's Crazy!

Businessman arrested over 'anti-gypsy' email he did not even write
A businessman became the subject of a £12,000 police investigation after council officials accused him of being “offensive” to gypsies in an email he had not even written.

The 45-year-old IT company manager, who does not want to be named, was arrested in front of his wife and young son, was fingerprinted and had his DNA taken.

It came after staff at Rother District Council in East Sussex declared the phrase “It’s the “do as you likey” attitude that I am against” – sent in an email to their planning department – was potentially racist because “likey” rhymes with the derogatory word “pikey”. ...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/6959161/Businessman-arrested-over-anti-gypsy-email-he-did-not-even-write.html

merlinfire
October 1, 2010, 12:44 PM
Google "ASBO". And you'll get an idea of Britian's idea of 'rights'.

Wow.

Surprised me.

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