45 Colt for a "Judge"


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MickKennedy29
September 29, 2010, 10:43 AM
I have started reloading for a Taurus Judge, and I have been using load data NOT for the Ruger. I have been using data for lower pressure loads. Can the Judge safely withstand the higher pressure loads, or should I stick with the lower pressure ones? I will be using Ranier plated bullets if that makes a difference. Also, I have been using Titegroup, as I had some from loading 9mm. Is there a better powder to use? Any assistance would be appreciated.

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snuffy
September 29, 2010, 12:35 PM
Looks like you want your neck on a chopping block!:what::eek: Loading for someone else, probably without a license, then not knowing what you're doing.

If something bad happens, be looking for their lawyers beating on your door with a law suit in their hands.

Tell them to go to the store, buy some factory shells. You'll live a long, suit free life that way.

Hondo 60
September 29, 2010, 12:45 PM
MickKennedy29,
I think snuffy has hit the nail on the head.
NEVER reload for others w/o a license & about a billion dollars in liability insurance.

If you're bound & determined to ignore that warning... Tauri are NOT built for the Ruger only pressures.

Please stay safe :D

PowderMonkey
September 29, 2010, 12:52 PM
Looks like you want your neck on a chopping block!:what::eek: Loading for someone else, probably without a license, then not knowing what you're doing.

If something bad happens, be looking for their lawyers beating on your door with a law suit in their hands.

Tell them to go to the store, buy some factory shells. You'll live a long, suit free life that way.

Sounds like you need to add an IANAL to your TANSTAAFL. ; )

rbernie
September 29, 2010, 01:31 PM
In practice, if you obtain any compensation for making your reloads for others then you need to have a Type 06 FFL. In theory, the law is a bit more lenient than I just described:
Title 27, PART 478, Subpart B—Definitions,
11) Manufacturer of ammunition. A person who devotes time, attention, and labor to manufacturing ammunition as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the ammunition manufactured;Sadly, the F Troop has been known to consider any compensation for reloaded ammo to constitute 'regular trade or business ... with the principal objective ... of profit', and fighting their determination requires legal fees that you likely want to avoid.

If you provide someone with ammunition that turns out to be faulty, or can be claimed to be faulty, you are subject to civil action and if that comes to pass you will be sad. Most folk that regularly provide reloads to others carry a large blanket indemnity insurance policy.

AFAIK, the Judge is not suitable for the 'Ruger only' 45 Colt loads.

rcmodel
September 29, 2010, 01:49 PM
+1

Not Ruger only, and not S&W only.

It is proofed for SAAMI Standard pressure .45 Colt 14,000 PSI loads.

rc

MickKennedy29
September 29, 2010, 03:15 PM
Thank you for your concern.

As far as the powder choice goes, has anyone had good experience with Titegroup? I would like to find a powder that fills more of the case. It just makes it easier to see before I seat a bullet. I have looked at several charts and picked out possibilities based on a higher charge weight. However, that doesn't always equate to a larger volume due to different consistencies of powders. Is there a powder that will fill more of the case?

ChristopherG
September 29, 2010, 03:20 PM
Trailboss is specifically designed to remedy your concern. However, it's also specifically designed to run with lead bullets AFAIK and I don't know if you'll find suitable data for your plated bullets.

MickKennedy29
September 29, 2010, 03:36 PM
Thank you for the input. Trailboss would be perfect, but I had already ruled that out. The Judge evidently has a reputation for leading of the barrel, and I can tell you that it is a well deserved at least for this one. I will only be using plated or jacketed, and have read on multiple boards that there is a significant danger of squib type loads using TB + plated/jacketed bullets.

ljnowell
September 29, 2010, 04:59 PM
As much as I hate it, Unique is probably your friend here.

rcmodel
September 29, 2010, 05:04 PM
Unique is the standard for the .45 Colt.

You never did say what weight bullet you are using, but 8.5 grains with a 250 grain is about ideal in old Colts and new Judges.

rc

MickKennedy29
September 29, 2010, 05:12 PM
I bought a box of 200 gr. Hornady JHP, and loaded 10 of them with the Titegroup just to make sure they performed adequately. I wanted to try out a few before I ordered in bulk. I am planning on heading to the range this weekend to see how they work. I found a good price on Ranier 200gr. flat points on MidwayUSA. Unless I can find something cheaper, I will be ordering those next week.

I will grab some Unique tomorrow and load up 10 more before heading to the range. Thank you for the input.

rcmodel
September 29, 2010, 05:19 PM
I have no experience with a Judge.

However, I have been shooting .45 Colt Colt SAA's for a very long time.

I will tell you that no fixed sight .45 Colt I ever shot 200 grain bullets where the sights were looking.

They were regulated for the industry standard 250 - 255 grain bullet at around 850 FPS.

The Tauri may be different, I don't know, but if it shoots a few inches low you need heavier 250 grain bullets.

rc

MickKennedy29
September 29, 2010, 05:32 PM
I will try that too then. I'll grab some 250gr bullets as well and see if they perform better. I have little to no experience reloading 45 colt. I load 9x19, 380acp and 8x57 Mauser almost exclusively. I just got the dies/shellplate in the mail this week for the 45 colt. I appreciate the input. I picked the 200gr. based on the load data from Hogdon's website.

snuffy
September 29, 2010, 09:54 PM
Since we can't talk you out of loading for someone else, we should talk about what to expect from that judge.

You will never see any kind of accuracy,(small groups), from that revolver. Yes, it will shoot the 45 colt cartridge. But, because it also has to accept 3" .410 shells, the 45 shells will have an EXTREMELY LONG jump from the end of the brass to the beginning of the rifling, AFTER going through a cylinder gap. A plated bullet would be the last one I'd select, it wouldn't grip the rifling when going darn near full velocity when hitting the rifling.

Nothing to do with the taurus judge, it's a great little short range handgun. Just don't expect to hit much of anything accurately past 30 feet!

Hondo 60
September 29, 2010, 10:38 PM
Titegroup is probably the worst choice if your looking for "a powder that fills more of the case".

Titegroup has very low charge weights. Of course that's also an advantage in that it's economical. Costs the same as many other powders, but you get a lot more "bang for the buck".

Sorry, couldn't help the pun. :)

MickKennedy29
September 29, 2010, 11:12 PM
I'm not adverse to using Titegroup in and of itself, it's just the filling of the case issue. I want to easily see the powder before placing a bullet, and it sounds as if a 250gr bullet over Unique is the way to go.

However, I do not understand why choosing a plated bullet makes the inherent inaccuracy of the Judge any worse than it already is. The intended role of the gun is not a target pistol, it is close in to medium range defensive work. Since lead is already out, I assume you mean to suggest that jacketed would be best. Why is that?

Sport45
September 30, 2010, 03:12 AM
The plating on a plated bullet is very thin. As mentioned, the Judge gives the bullet a pretty good head start before it hits the rifling. I'd worry about leading as the bullet may strip through the plating before it starts to rotate.

rcmodel
September 30, 2010, 01:17 PM
I would suspect that the .45 Colt bullet has gained all the velocity it is going to gain by the time it is out of the case.
Once it is in the unrifled .410 part of the chamber, gas blow-by would probably make any further gain in speed unlikely.

So in that respect, a plated bullet stripping out in the rifling is no more likely then it would be in any other revolver giving full chamber pressure the whole way out of the bullet diameter chamber throat..

rc

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