Guns on Campus - Hit This Poll


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cbrgator
September 29, 2010, 05:11 PM
http://www.ktre.com/

It's on the main page. Just scroll down a few lines.

We are winning 55/45.

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Carter
September 29, 2010, 05:15 PM
I casted my vote for yes.

VegasAR15
September 29, 2010, 05:18 PM
Vote casted.

CoRoMo
September 29, 2010, 05:18 PM
Should college students be allowed to carry concealed handguns on campus?
Sure. While we're at it though, why not open carry? And why not expand beyond handguns? College students should be allowed to open carry a SBR M4. :evil:

HGUNHNTR
September 29, 2010, 05:21 PM
How appropriate, there was an armed mugging on the campus where my wife is a professor today.

UpTheIrons
September 29, 2010, 05:30 PM
There are a few more out there, and not all are in our favor:

http://krld.cbslocal.com/

http://www.ktrh.com/main.html

It seems like these have shifted since earlier today, though.

FROGO207
September 29, 2010, 05:39 PM
WHY do some people try to deny the obvious??:banghead: IMHO personal safety is the #1 priority at all times.

millertyme
September 29, 2010, 05:48 PM
I was just discussing this with a classmate of mine today. Also, I think we should all be grateful that the only person physically injured in the UT shooting was the shooter.

DoubleTapDrew
September 29, 2010, 06:00 PM
Should college students be allowed to carry concealed handguns on campus?
Yes.No.
Thank you for participating in our poll. Here are the results so far:

Yes.
62%

No.
38%

Old Fuff
September 29, 2010, 06:24 PM
I just helped to change it to:

63% Yes. 37% No. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a way to post comments.

glock36
September 29, 2010, 06:30 PM
62 yes 38 no when I cast my vote

omegaflame
September 29, 2010, 06:32 PM
As a college student I vote yes.

Walkalong
September 29, 2010, 06:33 PM
63 & 37 again.

cbrgator
September 29, 2010, 08:21 PM
I hit the other 2 UpTheIrons posted as well.

Bullnettles
September 29, 2010, 09:46 PM
69 and 31, for.

TexasGunbie
September 29, 2010, 09:53 PM
I am all for gun carry in school. I walk a mile to school everyday, and when I get there, I spend at least 8 hours there. I walk back home around 8pm when it's dark, carrying laptop, books, electronic devices... a student is a walking target for robbery due to the necessary items we carry on us.

Flintknapper
September 29, 2010, 10:03 PM
70% yes
30% no

KTRE will most likely air the results (unlike some stations when things don't go their way).

This station is in "my neck of the woods".

Jimineer
September 29, 2010, 10:20 PM
While watching the news regarding the UT Austin shooting yesterday, I imagined what it would be like when the UT Police, Austin Police and SWAT show up on campus looking for a mad gunman on campus and there are 50 to hundreds of students with guns on them.
What would be a good protocol for students to then follow knowing hundreds of LEO are there looking for a kid, who looks like any other kid, with a gun. Seems to me a bad situation for the LEOs.
And how would you as a LEO, on a campus with many thousands of potentially armed students, looking for one person with a gun (you probably don't know what gun yet, or whether there is more than one madmen), handle yourself?
Seems like an impossible situation. Suppose some student holed up in a classroom sees some SWAT guy with a rifle and mistakenly, filled with great fear, thinks that its the madman, then opens fire on the LEO.
I'm not saying I'm against CC on campus; just that it presents numerous potential problems.

Ramman911
September 29, 2010, 10:26 PM
Now a days seems like the college kids need more protection than an 80 year old granny strolling through the projects at 1 a.m. in the morning counting her cash out in the open.

CHEVELLE427
September 29, 2010, 10:30 PM
WHY WOULD they ever need a gun.:confused:

im sure there is a sign some were saying :rolleyes:

NO GUNS ALLOWED,:uhoh:

so all the bad crazy/people will just go some were there is no sign and commit there crime there instead,

we all know the power of

THE SIGN :banghead::banghead:



While watching the news regarding the UT Austin shooting yesterday, I imagined what it would be like when the UT Police, Austin Police and SWAT show up on campus looking for a mad gunman on campus and there are 50 to hundreds of students with guns on them.
What would be a good protocol for students to then follow knowing hundreds of LEO are there looking for a kid, who looks like any other kid, with a gun. Seems to me a bad situation for the LEOs.
And how would you as a LEO, on a campus with many thousands of potentially armed students, looking for one person with a gun (you probably don't know what gun yet, or whether there is more than one madmen), handle yourself?
Seems like an impossible situation. Suppose some student holed up in a classroom sees some SWAT guy with a rifle and mistakenly, filled with great fear, thinks that its the madman, then opens fire on the LEO.
I'm not saying I'm against CC on campus; just that it presents numerous potential problems.

good chance the bad guy would be dead long before the first leo's get there

Cracker jack
September 29, 2010, 10:55 PM
I am in school now I would like to have the option to cc but not open tomany people are scared of guns. I have seen a gun I school I had to take a second look becouse all I saw was the out line on the guys pants he was a Leo but it shocked me at first. It the student has the right training and mind set I think it should be allowed. Now I know people i won't even talk guns around eather there scared because they have never been around them, or they don't have the mindset to see a gun as a tool for defense and not an extention of there man hood. So i would settle for being able to leave it in my truck.

omegaflame
September 29, 2010, 11:43 PM
Stolen from a FARK thread, source unknown:
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a274/Degreeless/gunfreezonecartoon.jpg

xcgates
September 30, 2010, 01:00 AM
72%/28%

As a recently graduated college student, I voted yes. I had multiple people confide in me that they would have felt safer if something were to happen, were I to have my guns on campus.

lwknight
September 30, 2010, 01:39 AM
Jimineer makes some good points.
Another thing to consider is that while college students are technically adults , its an awkward age where its hard to tell the adults from the kids.
OC on campus for the typical student should be a No No.
It could never work out in reality but , there should be a way to determine who could respond appropriately and who might be likely to spazz out in an emergency.
Definitely there are students that are mature enough to be CCing on campus.

bensdad
September 30, 2010, 01:46 AM
Couple guys here seem to favor "reasonable restrictions". I guess you fellas know best how to keep things safe for the sheep. :rolleyes:

lwknight
September 30, 2010, 02:10 AM
Bensdad , you read about people having to leave the range because some idiot does not have the good sense to not sweep ther people with a muzzle of a condition 1 gun.
There just some people in the world that should not handle firearms.
Thats why I think there should be some kind of cencership on campus carry.

How could that be done fairly ? Well.. thats the $1,000,000.00 question.

TeamPrecisionIT
September 30, 2010, 08:27 AM
"A well regulated militia being necessary for the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

Sounds like a reasonable restriction..... on government. As a college student with a CHP (certified good-guy status) and an adult I should have the right to carry any weapon while on campus in whatever condition I choose to. This shouldn't be a debate, we have seen the writing on the wall with people continually taking advantage of the target rich environments that schools present due to the unarmed population within them.

As far as the LEO's are concerned, I can guarantee that the situation would be handled by the time they get there, stage, prep, stage again, and then finally get the go ahead from the brass to enter. Remember Columbine? VT? And now, UT? We are talking about a deranged individual having more than 20 minutes to carry out their devious plan without obtrusion. Whereas a lawful, non-deranged citizen (or 50) could easily overwhelm a lone (or 10) gunman even without much in the way of training. The mere tactic of fighting back will more then likely be enough to stop the atrocities being committed. One day this stupidity needs to end, we have lost a lot of life thanks to this idea that putting up a stupid sign will stop a murderer. I mean seriously, as a society, are we that naive?

Damian

CHEVELLE427
September 30, 2010, 08:42 AM
Another thing to consider is that while college students are technically adults , its an awkward age where its hard to tell the adults from the kids.
OC on campus for the typical student should be a No No.


so there to young and dumb to carry a gun on campus because it is an awkward age :rolleyes:.

but we can send them to war,
be in charge of billion $ jets,
MILLION $ tanks,
1K$ guns,
and offering up there life so we can set here and have this debate without a government telling us we cant (YET)

NEVER did agree with that your to young to drink and smoke but your old enough to go die for your country thing.:confused:

millertyme
September 30, 2010, 10:12 AM
I imagined what it would be like when the UT Police, Austin Police and SWAT show up on campus looking for a mad gunman on campus and there are 50 to hundreds of students with guns on them.

I think this is the same concern people have about CCW in the first place - vigilantism. Of course, the students you shouldn't have to worry about are the ones who lawfully carry since they've had a background check, some level of training with their weapon (I know, this is the ideal situation), and also instruction on the use of deadly force.It's the ones who will disregard the rules in the first place people need to be concerned with.

millertyme
September 30, 2010, 10:14 AM
NEVER did agree with that your to young to drink and smoke but your old enough to go die for your country thing.

If you want to drink legally when you're 18 join the military and stay on base. They'll sell to you with a military ID and you can drink at the class 6

CoRoMo
September 30, 2010, 10:24 AM
While watching the news regarding the UT Austin shooting yesterday, I imagined what it would be like when the UT Police building security, Austin Police and SWAT show up on campus at the mall looking for a mad gunman on campus at the mall and there are 50 to hundreds of students citizens with guns on them.
What would be a good protocol for students citizens to then follow knowing hundreds of LEO are there looking for a kid person, who looks like any other kid person, with a gun. Seems to me a bad situation for the LEOs. All 'gunmen situations' are bad situations for LEOs though.
And how would you as a LEO, on a campus at a mall with many thousands (lets switch here from "50 to hundreds" to 'many thousands' now) of potentially armed students customers, looking for one person with a gun (you probably don't know what gun yet, or whether there is more than one madmen), handle yourself?
Seems like an impossible situation, to someone like me. Suspend your disbelief for a moment and Suppose some student customers holed up in a classroom store sees some SWAT guy with a rifle and mistakenly, filled with great fear of course, always filled with great fear, nobody can ever maintain calm or focus ever, thinks that its the madman, then opens fire on the LEO. This of course, is a huge leap of speculation that, a person who goes through the channels to legally carry a concealed weapon isn't able to make intelligent decisions. There are a million 'what ifs' to any issue, this cherry picked one is just that, just one. Rather than putting confidence in a free and honest man, it is easier to worry about 'what if' and just vilify the liberty. Anyway, I'm not saying I'm against CC on campus (wink, wink); just that it presents numerous potential problems. Let's not focus on any of the numerous potential benefits at all. Otherwise my argument falls flat.

:rolleyes:

doc2rn
September 30, 2010, 10:28 AM
Yes 71%
No 29%

Cracker jack
September 30, 2010, 03:40 PM
I asked around at school today and they few I asked were pro ccw in school. Others said they would be worried about some one shooting a teacher or other student in anger. One girl said no she would be scared to see the gun even on a Leo. My favorit was no because it could go off accidentally go off and hurt a student or a inocent bystander. You got to love ignorance.

bds
October 1, 2010, 11:04 AM
Voted YES. College students of adult age who have no criminal history are tax paying and voting citizens who deserve the right to defend themselves and others.

When I went to college in Los Angeles, we were prey (targets) for local criminals/gang members :eek: and college security told us to do whatever we needed to protect ourselves because they couldn't.

Yes: 62%
No: 38%

alexp
October 1, 2010, 01:05 PM
I agree in principle the posting on this issue. The difference I see is the extent of the training and practice your marine gets. The college student receives far less training in any course or training session. Then there is the issue of supervision. Just my opinion

Mxracer239y
October 1, 2010, 05:49 PM
I agree in principle the posting on this issue. The difference I see is the extent of the training and practice your marine gets. The college student receives far less training in any course or training session. Then there is the issue of supervision. Just my opinion

This sounds like an argument against concealed carry in general. Extent of training? Thats a 'problem' with citizens vs. LEO too. "You dont have the training they do!" It was a load of crap then, its a load of crap now. Why are college students unable to train? I try to shoot at least once a week. Is that enough training? If not, what is?

I am a 22 year old adult. I don't need your supervision. I am a full time college student. I carry everywhere BUT when going to campus for class. Is that right?

JHK94
October 1, 2010, 05:59 PM
I agree with Mxracer. How is it okay for a "unsupervised" 21 -year old (jeez, when do people stop needing supervision!) unable to responsibly carry on campus, but is able to at the mall?

Also, what about staff? I am a staff member at a large university, and often have to work late at night, etc. etc. Like Mxracer, I carry pretty much all the time, except when I am on campus, which, since its my job, is most of the time. Add that to the fact that I commute by bicycle and can't even take advantage of the AZ statues that allow me to store a weapon in my car.

Edited for spelling

Grey Morel
October 1, 2010, 06:05 PM
Most of the kids at my college are just there to be babysat for 4 years and declared 'Middle Class'.

Most of them have zero exposure to guns, let alone training... Then you still have the pesky issues of responsibility/maturity. Most of them have none.

A large population of MATURE and RESPONSIBLE gun owners who are TRAINED is the best possible recipe for safety.

A large population of EMOTIONAL and CHILDISH gun owners who are UNSKILLED is a nightmare in the making.

I support their 2A right... but in all honest, I would transfer out if I knew I was in the midst of thousands of untrained frat boys with guns:r

alexp
October 1, 2010, 06:06 PM
No one said students couldn't be trained. I take no position on students carrying on campus. My problem is with any contention that a student trained is per se as qualified as a marine.

CHEVELLE427
October 1, 2010, 06:23 PM
my GF is 47 she joined the navy at 34 as for gun training she said it was slim to none,
had very little hands on.
same as a corman that was in till chief she has had very little hands on , just enough to get by.
no body said anything about Marine trained soldiers,
18 yr old lightly trained navy kid is still old enough to die for his country and knows just a little more then a collage student====MAYBE====

Old Fuff
October 1, 2010, 06:25 PM
I would say that if the worry over college students with carry permits is valid we would have seen a number of accidental, negligent, or deliberate but unjustified shootings on Utah university and college campuses, where CCW is legal, and has been for some time.

In my book actual experience beats speculation every time... ;)

Mxracer239y
October 1, 2010, 06:29 PM
Most of the kids at my college are just there to be babysat for 4 years and declared 'Middle Class'.

Most of them have zero exposure to guns, let alone training... Then you still have the pesky issues of responsibility/maturity. Most of them have none.

A large population of MATURE and RESPONSIBLE gun owners who are TRAINED is the best possible recipe for safety.

A large population of EMOTIONAL and CHILDISH gun owners who are UNSKILLED is a nightmare in the making.

I support their 2A right... but in all honest, I would transfer out if I knew I was in the midst of thousands of untrained frat boys with guns:r


Most American citizens have zero exposure to guns, let alone training. Therefore, NO citizen can be trusted with a gun.

Most American citizens do not have the maturity or responsibility to own firearms. Therefore, NO citizen can be trusted with a gun.

Do you realize how ridiculous this sounds? You cannot deprive an entire population of a right simply because the majority appears to be untrained.

The average american citizen is not a very impressive writer. Should we then remove their right to distribute written material? I do not find the average American to be well spoken. Do we restrict free speech?

Your generalizations, sir, are on the verge of offensive. Do you think I am an untrained frat boy? If I was a member of a fraternity would I be unfit to own firearms?

orionengnr
October 1, 2010, 06:31 PM
62/38 :)

orionengnr
October 1, 2010, 06:36 PM
Most of the kids at my college are just there to be babysat for 4 years and declared 'Middle Class'.
Those won't be the ones who get off their butts and take a CHL class, with FBI background check, range qual, etc.

Yes, I realize that requirements vary from one state to the next. I don't believe there is any way to get a national College Concealed Carry Bill done, so we do it state by state.

If I'm not mistaken it is legal in Utah. No problems there. Perhaps soon it will pass in another state. Just like Concealed Carry, the more states pass it, the more positive data we will have. Soon the "Blood in the streets!" hysteria will fade away due to the lack of evidence to support it.

alexp
October 1, 2010, 06:54 PM
http://www.concealedcampus.org/state-by-state.php

alexp
October 1, 2010, 07:48 PM
Full list: US school and college shootingsGun incidents in US schools and universities over the past year

Education Guardian, Tuesday 15 April 2008 11.50 BST Article history· Jonesboro, Arkansas. February 23, 2008. Student injured when bullet ricochets off building and hits him on campus of Arkansas State University.

· DeKalb, Illinois. February 14, 2008. A man opens fire in a lecture hall at Northern Illinois University and began shooting, killing five students and wounded 16 before killing himself.

· Oxnard, California. February 12, 2008. A 14-year-old fatally shot another student in the head while in class at E.O. Green junior high school. The victim had been bullied at school since declaring that he was gay.

· Memphis, Tennessee. February 11, 2008. A 17-year-old shot another student multiple times before handing the gun over to the teacher during gym class at Mitchell high school.

· Baton Rouge, Louisiana. February 8, 2008. A female student killed herself and two others in a classroom at Louisiana Tech University.

· Memphis, Tennessee. February 4, 2008. A 16-year-old shot his 16-year-old school mate in the leg during class at Hamilton high school.

· Washington, DC. January 22, 2008. Four Ballou high school students were shot and wounded as they were leaving school.

· Las Vegas, Nevada. January 18, 2008. A 16-year-old shot at another student outside a basketball game at Cheyenne high school, but did not injure him.

· Cleveland, Ohio. January 16, 2008. A 16-year-old boy pulled a gun from his locker and aimed it into a crowd of students when a fight erupted at South high school.

· Charlotte, North Carolina. January 16, 2008. A student at Crossroads Charter high school was shot and wounded in the school car park.

· Putnam City, Oklahoma. January 15, 2008. A 17-year-old was shot three times in a Putnam City high school car park after a basketball game.

· Asheville, North Carolina. January 10, 2007. A 16-year-old with a handgun shot at a fellow student at Asheville high school. No injuries.

· Gibsonton, Florida. December 17, 2007. Three East Bay high school students shot and wounded two other students as they were walking home from their bus stop.

· Las Vegas, Nevada. December 11, 2007. Two assailants using 9-millimeter and .45-caliber guns shot and injured six people as they exited a Mojave high school bus.

· Oakland, California. December 11, 2007. Three teens were shot after a basketball game at McClymonds high school in a drive-by shooting.

· Lagrangeville, New York. November 29, 2007. Three Hudson Valley high school students were arrested for planning a Columbine-type attack and making threats online.

· Holland Patent, New York. November 26, 2007. Two Holland Patent high school students shot a gun while on their school bus.

· Beaufort, SC. November 20, 2007. An 18-year-old shot a 17-year-old student in the Battery Creek high school car park after a skirmish.

· Saginaw, Michigan. October 25, 2007. Two Arthur Hill high school students and two adults were shot by another student as they left a middle school football game.

· Portland, Oregon. October 12, 2007. Two teens from Jefferson high school were shot when a gunman fired into a crowd of students that had gathered after the end of their homecoming dance.

· Cleveland, Ohio. October 10, 2007. A 14- year-old student shot two teachers and two students at SuccessTech Academy before killing himself.

ď· Norristown, Pennsylvania. October 10, 2007. A 14-year-old is arrested for stockpiling more than 30 weapons and plotting a Columbine-style attack.

· Memphis, Tennessee. September 30, 2007. A 21-year-old University of Memphis student was shot and killed on campus.

· Oroville, California. September 28, 2007. A 17-year-old armed with a .22-caliber handgun takes over two dozen students hostage at Las Plumas high school, before surrendering to police.

· Dover, Delaware. September 21, 2007. A freshman at Delaware State University shot and wounded two other students at a campus dining hall.

· Newark, New Jersey. August 4, 2007. Three Delaware State University students were shot and killed execution style by a 28-year-old and two 15-year-old boys who forced them to kneel and shot them in the head. A fourth student was found nearby with gunshot and knife wounds.

· Dallas, Texas. June 29, 2007. A 17-year-old former high school football player shot and injured two other high school students in the school car park.

· Huntersville, North Carolina. April 18, 2007. A 16-year-old high school student threatened two of his school mates with a gun.

· Blacksburg, Virginia. April 16, 2007. Student Seung-Hui Cho massacres 32 students and wounds 15 more at Virginia Tech University, armed with a Glock model 19 handgun and a Walther P22 handgun. Then shoots himself

The Wiry Irishman
October 1, 2010, 08:08 PM
I agree in principle the posting on this issue. The difference I see is the extent of the training and practice your marine gets. The college student receives far less training in any course or training session. Then there is the issue of supervision. Just my opinion

I'm in college and I shoot more than 30,000 rounds a year. How much do you shoot? And what makes a college student different than any other legal adult? Why the double standard? I go to the range quite a bit, and from what I see there the average gun owner is a downright awful shot. Also I've known several other students that have come from various branches before college, Marines included, and none of them were a particularly good shot with a handgun. Seems there's not much priority put on that versus rifles.

CHEVELLE427
October 1, 2010, 08:15 PM
One year shootings on school campuses

they must not have seen the no guns allowed sign



no guns allowed makes the legal people setting ducks

xcgates
October 1, 2010, 08:39 PM
To those who say that because a person is a college student, that person should not be allowed to carry, just what makes them different from when they aren't college students?

You can pull all sorts of examples of "college pressure" to party, be rowdy, and drink. Well, it is illegal to drink and drive, and when I was going to be drinking, I would tuck my keys in a spot of my room, removing any temptation. How about someone who is middle-aged and carries? If they are going to be going to a party to drink heavily, would they also not do something like, oh, I don't know, put the gun away?

CHEVELLE427
October 1, 2010, 08:48 PM
ccw test BACK GROUND CHECK would weed a lot out anyway and if it didn't the range test would.

THAT IS

if your state requires one

ALABAMA YOU GIVE THEM THE $15-25 THEY GIVE YOU THE PERMIT = 1 year i think
FL your going to spend around $175 when it's all said and done, = 4-5 years i think

Cracker jack
October 1, 2010, 09:26 PM
Ok ya some collage students shouldn't have a gun, but the ones i am scared of are the one that are going to carry anyways. So why not let me legally carry. If I couldn't handle a gun properly why would i even try to get a ccw i would just carry like any criminal (I don't and won't illegally carry). I don't thing I have nearly as much experience or skills that a marine has. I do think i can handle a fire arm safely and responsably.

Bhamrichard
October 1, 2010, 09:39 PM
ALABAMA YOU GIVE THEM THE $15-25 THEY GIVE YOU THE PERMIT = 1 year i think

$7.50 in my county :D and yes it's good for a year

CHEVELLE427
October 1, 2010, 10:02 PM
SOME STATES JUST SEE IT AS A MONEY MAKER.

buddy in ALA said he just went to DMV i think filed out some papers and got a permit 30 min

Mags
October 1, 2010, 11:06 PM
Where in the 2nd Amendment does it say you must be trained to have the right to keep and bear arms?
As for this:If you want to drink legally when you're 18 join the military and stay on base. They'll sell to you with a military ID and you can drink at the class 6 That's a myth unles it occurred before my time.

xcgates
October 2, 2010, 12:05 AM
I don't think I've been ID'd any time I've gone to the class 6. And I'm not exactly visibly over 21.

JEB
October 2, 2010, 01:57 AM
students should absolutly be allowed to carry. i get up in the morning and put on my pants and my gun. i work around my house with my gun. i run to the gas station with my gun. i go to the movies with my gun. i go shopping with my gun then i go to class....without my gun. why?

i legaly and safely carry everywhere every day. i am well practiced and experienced with any sidearm i choose to carry. i regularly study the laws concerning concealed carry with the asperation that i will one day be able to recite relevant law from memory at any given moment. what thought process does one use to come to the conclusion that it is not safe for me to carry on campus?

one thing i really HATE is when people use the excuse that police officers have more trainig. whenever i hear this i always call BS on it. were they "trained" more? maybe. does that make them better or more prepared? no. i personally know several cops. for way too many of them, their practice consists of yearly qualifications. i actually had one incident where one of the officer took the m4 and the semi auto shot gun out of his car. he took them to the armory and, after he looked at the shotgun for a moment he just leaned them both up in the corner and started to walk out. i told him that he really should unload them befor he left. i had to help him unload the shotgun, and after he fiddled with the m4 for a couple minuets, i took it and unloaded it myself. i also showed him where the bolt handle was so he could do it himself next time. this was all during my internship during which i was not allowed to carry (i know because i asked specificly) because it was "too much of a liability." dont take this as cop bashing; i am very pro-law enforcement. the point is that just because someone is a cop doesnt mean they are an expert in weapons handling. there were those who were average shots at best and there were a few who struck me as very good. but in the end i am confident that i could keep up with the average officer.

gun free zones do nothing but increase the danger of law abiding citizens and those around them. if carry on campus was allowed, it would have been very unlikely that the UT shooter would have been able to walk across campus, firing randomly without being met with some resistance by an armed student. some may argue that nobody but the gunman was hurt. if he was in fact carrying an "assault rifle" as the news says, he most likely had about 30 rounds avalible. with one shot saved for himself and all the random shooting at buildings, as far as i am concerened he commited 29 counts of attempted murder. i know that this isnt how the law would look at it, thats just my opinion.

yes call 911 if such a situation ever occurs around you, but at the same time do everything you can to keep yourself/loved ones safe. that is why i always carry when legal. like the saying goes "when seconds count, help is just minuets away." not to mention that when help does arrive they arent going to run in with guns blazing. they will gather and cordinate a plan first. even if they do this quickly, that is still more time to wait.

The Wiry Irishman
October 2, 2010, 11:44 AM
Exactly, JEB. The only reason a cop is going to be a good shot is if they have a personal interest in shooting and practice outside of work. It doesn't matter how amazing their training is, marksmanship is a very perishable skill, and if you're shooting once or twice a year, you're not going to stay proficient. My roomate is a state trooper. He's required to shoot twice a year. One training day, one qualification day, for an annual total of about 500 rounds. I shoot that much every week.

CHEVELLE427
October 2, 2010, 12:27 PM
IT WAS POSTED

some were cops do not hit there targets as often as regular home gun owners

none of of will know just what we will do if that paper target was to start shooting back at us.

and just because someone goes or is going to collage does not mean there any smarter, they just have papers saying so.

poor kids vs rich kids = poor ones are there to learn the rich ones are there because daddy said so. been around some very smart people, but they didn't have any street smarts at all
im sure some rich kids have done well, im also sure some of both have not, you don't teach them at home the world can and will be a shock to them when on there own

bds
October 2, 2010, 08:49 PM
The way I see it, any attempt to deny or reduce our right to self defense whether at home (home invasion), driving (car jacking), parks/mountains, amusement parks, movies, school, shopping, church, or any other place we pay taxes where local police/sheriff and national police/military forces are "supposed to maintain" security is an infringement attempt.

If there are those concerned with maturity issues, that's a training issue and should be treated separately from our right to self defense issue. Why should the majority of this country suffer and be victimized just because a small minority is irresponsible. If that's the case, none of us should be permitted to drive on the road because of drunk drivers. :eek:

Until the tax payer supported police/military forces can absolutely make certain they can protect us from criminals on a 24/7 basis, us tax payers should be able to defend ourselves until they arrive.

I refer people to hurricane Andrews and Katrina where natural disaster prevented police and military forces to restore law and order while multitude of innocent tax payers were victimized, robbed, raped and killed as my argument for our right to self defense. For them, 911 could and would not helped. If more of these victims were armed and carrying, they may not have been victims.

Pilots now have the right to carry to defend themselves and passengers. Why? Because criminals and terrorist use planes and passengers are not allowed to carry weapons. So students, teachers and professors should not defend themselves from criminals and terrorists who attend/visit school?

Like my signature states, it is the firearms we arm ourselves with that make us not disadvantaged against criminals. It certainly is not the countless criminal laws on the books that's going to protect us when we are being robbed/attacked for sure.

Neverwinter
October 2, 2010, 11:37 PM
one thing i really HATE is when people use the excuse that police officers have more trainig. whenever i hear this i always call BS on it. were they "trained" more? maybe. does that make them better or more prepared? no. i personally know several cops. for way too many of them, their practice consists of yearly qualifications. i actually had one incident where one of the officer took the m4 and the semi auto shot gun out of his car. he took them to the armory and, after he looked at the shotgun for a moment he just leaned them both up in the corner and started to walk out. i told him that he really should unload them befor he left. i had to help him unload the shotgun, and after he fiddled with the m4 for a couple minuets, i took it and unloaded it myself. i also showed him where the bolt handle was so he could do it himself next time. this was all during my internship during which i was not allowed to carry (i know because i asked specificly) because it was "too much of a liability." dont take this as cop bashing; i am very pro-law enforcement. the point is that just because someone is a cop doesnt mean they are an expert in weapons handling. there were those who were average shots at best and there were a few who struck me as very good. but in the end i am confident that i could keep up with the average officer.
Throughout this thread, the majority of the trained vs untrained debate has been comparing college students against similarly aged soldiers who demonstrate higher levels of proficiency in firearms handling. Or themselves against LEOs. That has been given more emphasis than is deserved.

A person's accuracy with a weapon is secondary to their ability to use their judgment to intelligently determine when it is appropriate. Isn't the number of bad shoots higher than the number of times when a bystander is shot during the course of a good shoot?

Uhrmacher
October 3, 2010, 11:29 AM
I don't understand what age has to do with being able to carry on campus. The law in most states already restricts carry permits to those over the age of 21. If 21 year old college students aren't sufficiently mature to carry then...raise the carry age? Not all students enter college as 18 year olds and many non-students work on or have to travel through campuses on a regular basis. As the law exists today in 49 states, none of them can carry.

JEB
October 4, 2010, 12:36 AM
Not all students enter college as 18 year olds

especially these days. i regularly see students in the halls and in classrooms who are in their 30's and 40's, a few more even older than that. how is it right that their rights are beign infringed upon? are they trying to say that even they are not mature enough?

Ragnar Danneskjold
October 4, 2010, 12:48 AM
I have yet to hear an explanation as to why one would agree to allow "Person X" to carry in Wal-Mart, the gas station, the local park, Applebee's, and nearly everywhere else; and yet feel that this same person would be inherently dangerous simply because they are on a college campus.

Location-based CCW laws have always perplexed me. Either are person is safe to carry or they are not. The location is irrelevant. If a person is safe enough to have a concealed handgun in the booth next to yours at a restaurant, or standing in the line behind you at the grocery store, how is it they could be dangerous sitting next to you in class?

As has been already said, allowing campus carry would not be changing who could carry. Nearly everywhere, 18-20 year olds cannot carry anyways. So the idea of having a bunch of 18 year olds with guns is a non-issue and only brought up by antis seeking to polarize people against the idea. The only people who could carry are 21+ adults who can already carry most places anyways.

Is there a legitimate argument against campus carry that doesn't have anything to do with making people "feel uncomfortable"?

Ragnar Danneskjold
October 4, 2010, 12:53 AM
And how would you as a LEO, on a campus with many thousands of potentially armed students, looking for one person with a gun (you probably don't know what gun yet, or whether there is more than one madmen), handle yourself?

The good guy would be the one who drops his gun when I yell "drop the gun". The bad guy would be the one who points it at me.

Mr.Davis
October 4, 2010, 07:18 AM
In the wake of several armed robberies on the University of Kentucky campus, the police held a public safety forum. Two members of Students for Concealed Carry on Campus advocated for CCWers to be legally allowed to carry firearms on campus. This started resulted in the poll found part of the way down the right side of a local station's website:

http://www.lex18.com/home/

Please support us by voting!

Ben86
October 4, 2010, 07:38 AM
What poles? Neither of your links bring us to a poll.

I support your efforts. The less resistance free zones the better.

Domineaux
October 4, 2010, 08:09 AM
In the wake of several armed robberies on the University of Kentucky campus, the police held a public safety forum. Two members of Students for Concealed Carry on Campus advocated for CCWers to be legally allowed to carry firearms on campus. This started resulted in the poll found part of the way down the right side of a local station's website:

http://www.lex18.com/home/

Please support us by voting!
66% yes - 34% no for U of K poll

cbrgator
October 4, 2010, 01:44 PM
What poles? Neither of your links bring us to a poll.

I support your efforts. The less resistance free zones the better.
The poll I posted is no longer there. This thread is almost a week old.

Cracker jack
October 15, 2010, 08:58 PM
Does any one know the final numbers for the pole

sonier
October 16, 2010, 09:51 PM
Requirements for on campus concealed carry permits for students-

-basic gun understanding knowledge
-must pass a very hard gun safety and awareness class
-Must be able to complete a marksmanship test with excellent overall accuracy
-Must attend a handful of Force on Force training and complete with a high grade

-student must complete all of these requirements before being issued a on campus CCW permit.

Im 19 years old and this is what would make me feel comfortable on a campus. There is a LOT of idiotic people and a lot of parents who refuse to believe there kids are not responsible enough. with a strict guideline and rules i would feel safe.

Domineaux
October 16, 2010, 10:22 PM
Requirements for on campus concealed carry permits for students-

-basic gun understanding knowledge
-must pass a very hard gun safety and awareness class
-Must be able to complete a marksmanship test with excellent overall accuracy
-Must attend a handful of Force on Force training and complete with a high grade

-student must complete all of these requirements before being issued a on campus CCW permit.

Im 19 years old and this is what would make me feel comfortable on a campus. There is a LOT of idiotic people and a lot of parents who refuse to believe there kids are not responsible enough. with a strict guideline and rules i would feel safe.
Problem with that is, anyone who is barely able to pay their own way in college would have no ability to protect themselves due to the high cost required to get yet another higher level of permission slip for a God given right that is protected by our Constitution.

pacerdude
October 17, 2010, 12:02 AM
Domineaux, brings up a good point, I am a 21 year old college student with a job, but have enough trouble making rent, bills, insurance food etc..., I simply cannot afford a CCW permit right now. If a second test was required for an on-campus CCW permit (if it were even allowed in GA), the number of people who received one would be slim at best, probably less than 5% of the whole UGA campus.

Old krow
October 18, 2010, 12:18 AM
Problem with that is, anyone who is barely able to pay their own way in college would have no ability to protect themselves due to the high cost required to get yet another higher level of permission slip for a God given right that is protected by our Constitution.

I see the point, but I disagree with it. I think that you're looking at it the wrong way. Most of these colleges are State Land Grant colleges and many are funded via the state that they reside in. I am of course excluding IV league schools. Here's my idea:

1. Make it a state funded (subsidized) course. Seriously, it's a college, make it a credit. You wouldn't be paying anymore than you already were.
2. Get the people that need the extra money teaching, cops, retired LEO, or MIL teach the courses. They can be accredited the same way any other subject, curriculum, school is.

3.
Requirements for on campus concealed carry permits for students-

-basic gun understanding knowledge
-must pass a very hard gun safety and awareness class
-Must be able to complete a marksmanship test with excellent overall accuracy
-Must attend a handful of Force on Force training and complete with a high grade

-student must complete all of these requirements before being issued a on campus CCW permit.

I would suggest a class, or portion there of to teach the legal ramifications of discharges and the different type...i.e ND/AD/SD

I would then add another part where they explain WHY we have RKBA in the first place. If I had to take a class in art that more than likely originated in France or Italy anyway, then everybody should have to take a class on the reason we're not Brits.

And how would you as a LEO, on a campus with many thousands of potentially armed students, looking for one person with a gun (you probably don't know what gun yet, or whether there is more than one madmen), handle yourself?

That same question could be asked in any situation, anywhere, by anybody.

Until the tax payer supported police/military forces can absolutely make certain they can protect us from criminals on a 24/7 basis, us tax payers should be able to defend ourselves until they arrive.

Until 2007 when the Defense Authorization Act was passed, the US Military was not allowed to patrol US soil. The references are1807 Insurrection Act and 1879's Posse Comitatus Act. Not that I'm arguing that point, just that it hasn't always been that way.

Hatterasguy
October 18, 2010, 09:24 PM
Sure why not my school was in a bad area and I would have felt a lot better carrying.

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