Buying an "Assault Weapon" from someone in California


PDA






marktx
September 29, 2010, 05:32 PM
A buddy who lives out in California is looking to sell a gun he owns that is on their "Assault Weapon" list. He registered it when all that nonsense started there a few years back but neither of us is really familiar with how to sell it legally. Most of the California law stuff I come across has to do with sales inside the state not selling to someone out of state. Could it be as simple as he takes it to his FFL which ships it to my FFL?

If you enjoyed reading about "Buying an "Assault Weapon" from someone in California" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Mags
September 29, 2010, 05:35 PM
You should talk with your FFL and see if he deals with California, most FFLS won't deal in transactions with CA due to the increased regulations and unfamiliarity with CA law.

As far as TX goes the gun is fine, but I don't if CA has any restrictions on exporting "assault weapons".

vynx
September 29, 2010, 06:14 PM
check out calguns.net

someone there will know

I would think its OK but being California it may be illegal to sell it to anyone...I kind of doubt that but better to make sure

there is probably an FFL at calguns.net that can answer you.

SaxonPig
September 29, 2010, 06:46 PM
It's OK to sell and ship OUT of state, not INTO it.

teumessian_fox
September 29, 2010, 06:56 PM
Yes, it is as simple as his FFL shipping it to your FFL.

The only problem he might encounter would be a FFL who doesn't know the law well enough to do the transfer. I lived there till '06. There were plenty of stupid FFLs out there who didn't know squat about guns, much less gun laws.

But yes, he can sell the gun to an out-of-state buyer.

The question you need to ask him, however, is why on earth would he sell a gun he can never, ever, again own? (As long as he's living there, anyway.)

most FFLS won't deal in transactions with CA due to the increased regulations and unfamiliarity with CA law.


Nonsense on two counts. First, have you personally consulted with most FFLs? Second, the ones who discriminate against ********** simply won't ship into the state. Nobody will refuse a shipment from the state as there is absolutely no additional paperwork for that.

marktx
September 29, 2010, 07:09 PM
Thanks for the information... that is what I was hoping to hear. It makes sense but you can't always apply logic to the gun laws of CA.

As for why he is selling it... He isn't really a gun guy and bought the gun after seeing it in a movie quite a few years back. Never has shot the thing and it would be a hassle to take to a range as it's "scary".

Zoogster
September 29, 2010, 07:27 PM
Of course he can never buy another one.

You can buy one from anywhere in the country, but that is the only one he can ever own while in California, because no more can be registered in the state.
So that rifle could be put in many configurations that would be illegal for any firearm he can legally own in the near future.


It cannot just ship from any FFL in California, they must go through an FFL that also has a "California Assault Weapons Dealer Permit".
With shipments crossing state lines many FFLs have been known to gouge and charge rather significant transfer fees. (They are limited to a specific maximum for in state transfers.)
That fee plus the price of the gun often exceeds the price of similar guns not going through that process. Some dealers are more reasonable, but then you have to shop around.

hirundo82
September 29, 2010, 11:06 PM
I'm not sure what California law has to say about it, but as far as federal law is concerned he doesn't need to go through an FFL on his end. He can just take it to UPS or FedEx and ship it to your FFL. It doesn't need to be declared as a firearm since it is going to a licensee (although the policies of the shipping company may require it to be declared).

ArmedBear
September 29, 2010, 11:29 PM
Yeah, California requires FFL-FFL on the way in, but I don't believe they have any say about selling out of state. Not their jurisdiction.

He should inform the CA DOJ that he has sold the gun, so he's removed from the registration list. And as others have said, he can't get another California "assault weapon". Is he SURE he wants to sell it?

nalioth
September 29, 2010, 11:56 PM
Yes, it is as simple as his FFL shipping it to your FFL.It's simpler than that - it can go US Mail to any FFL anywhere. No FFL required to ship firearms - just to receive from out of state.

NavyLCDR
September 29, 2010, 11:56 PM
He can just take it to UPS or FedEx and ship it to your FFL.

If it is a rifle, USPS should work too.

It doesn't need to be declared as a firearm since it is going to a licensee (although the policies of the shipping company may require it to be declared).

OMG! Finally! Someone posts the accurate statement regarding declaration without having to be corrected! Good job! :cool:

I too agree that it can be shipped directly to an FFL anywhere without a CA FFL needed.

deadin
September 30, 2010, 12:20 AM
I too vote that it can be shipped directly to an FFL anywhere without a CA FFL needed.

With the caveat that IF the receiving FFL will accept a shipment from a non-FFL. Some won't, so check first.

rtpzwms
September 30, 2010, 02:06 AM
Posted by Zoogster:
Of course he can never buy another one.

OK we have some misinformation here. California has a list of banned assault weapons, true. But, if it is not on the list it is legal here. In other words if weapon x is listed on the list it is illegal, then the mfg of this model x makes a updated version x.1 the new model is NOT on the list and is legal. The California Attorney General asked the Governor to remove his power to add more guns to this list and the Governor approved this request. So the list will not get any bigger until something else changes.

Posted by Zoogster:
It cannot just ship from any FFL in California, they must go through an FFL that also has a "California Assault Weapons Dealer Permit".

The owner may sell the gun to anyone who in there state it is legal for the person to own that weapon. It does not have to go through a CA FFL at all. He will need to report the sale to the DOJ, I believe that is who he reports it too. He can NOT sell it to a California resident (its illegal here now).

Just for the record the FFL Assault weapons dealer permit is so the DEALER may process them, and buy them from California residents and then sell them out of state.

Posted by vynx:
I would think its OK but being California it may be illegal to sell it to anyone

Naa we covered this and you were on the right track with your first part.

Its not that hard if its legal where you live its OK. If not then it won't happen. Coming into CA is the part that some gun dealers don't want to do. I can't blame them I have to educate my FFL dealer on some deals. There are a LOT of fine points when buying in California but not that bad when selling out of state.

PS: sorry Zoogster I didn't want to pick on you so please don't take it that way.

Zoogster
September 30, 2010, 03:58 AM
OK we have some misinformation here. California has a list of banned assault weapons, true. But, if it is not on the list it is legal here. In other words if weapon x is listed on the list it is illegal, then the mfg of this model x makes a updated version x.1 the new model is NOT on the list and is legal. The California Attorney General asked the Governor to remove his power to add more guns to this list and the Governor approved this request. So the list will not get any bigger until something else changes.

There is no misinformation.
A new purchased firearm is still subject to the assault weapon by feature restrictions.
You may be able to purchase a similar design firearm, but it is not a "registered assault weapon" and as such becomes an illegal assault weapon in many configurations (including standard configuration of many popular designs) that are entirely legal for a registered one and only a registered one.

For example when using a "bullet button" for a pistol gripped offlist AR or AK (or any other semi-auto firearm with any restricted feature, a pistol grip just being the most common) variant it is a serious crime to ever insert a magazine over 10 rounds into it. Even if you legally possess 20-30+ round magazines. That becomes a semi-automatic centerfire rifle with a "fixed" magazine over 10 rounds, a felony assault weapon.
Regular magazine release weapons, those with a legally "detachable magazine" are prohibited from having numerous features.
On a registered "assault weapon" you can legally have a regular detachable magazine of any size (if the magazine was possessed before 2000 for 11+ capacity) along with all the features such as:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action
of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.
(3) an overall length of less than 30 inches.

Nobody else can have those features!

As they are no longer labeling new models as assault weapons the ability to register one no longer exists during a temporary window.
So the ability to gain the capability of adding all those features no longer exists, and only people with an existing registered assault weapon can ever enjoy them and many nationally available accessories.
This means there is a fixed number and the existing owners of them are the last legal exempted owners (outside LEO and military exemptions) of them.
A registered assault weapon is a legal "assault weapon" and as such is immune to all the assault weapon by feature restrictions on firearms. It does not become a crime to put it into what is typically an illegal configuration because it does not become an illegal assault weapon when you do.



The owner may sell the gun to anyone who in there state it is legal for the person to own that weapon. It does not have to go through a CA FFL at all.

Many FFLs want a gun shipped from another FFL. The only FFLs that can legally handle registered assault weapons in California are those with the proper permit, which is a fraction of them.
Federal law requires an FFL receives the firearm for an interstate transfer, so if the receiving FFL wants it shipped by an FFL it will be going through a California FFL that must abide by California law.

You-Two
September 30, 2010, 04:45 AM
Here is a thread on CalGuns that should answer your questions...reference the second post by bweise.

Shipping RAW to Out of State Buyer (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=338486&highlight=shipping+aw)

Ask your friend if the firearm is a "named" AW or a "by features" AW.

If "named" - it sounds like it has to go through a FFL with AW permit because it will always be considered an AW by the state. Until it leaves the state.

If "by features" - it would be fine to remove the features making it an AW and then deregister it with the CA DOJ before shipping it out of state. In that case, you can ship straight to the new FFL like any other long gun. An example of this would be to install a Bullet Button and not insert any mags over 10rds. Also, it would be prudent to disassemble any mags over 10rds before shipping them...but probably not required.

These CA regs are a maze to figure out and sometimes doesn't even make sense after you've thought it all through. Have your friend call the CA DOJ...they'll probably be overjoyed to find out someone is getting rid of their evil assault weapon.

CA DOJ Firearms Contact (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/contact.php)

Good luck!

rtpzwms
September 30, 2010, 05:17 AM
You may be able to purchase a similar design firearm, but it is not a "registered assault weapon" and as such becomes an illegal assault weapon in many configurations (including standard configuration of many popular designs) that are entirely legal for a registered one and only a registered one.

No FFL that I know of will bring a illegal configuration into California. And when dealing with an out of state dealer most of them will not even talk about assault weapons to an individual in California. I was using the example to show that you can get something similar not EXACTLY the same. Most people looking at something with a pistol grip for example may not notice the magazine release button that requires a tool. You and I have seen them and know to expect them. Your post made it seem like you couldn't get anything even close.

Many FFLs want a gun shipped from another FFL.
This is there the FFL's requirement not a legal one to complete the sale all you need is an FFL willing to accept the delivery.

Federal law requires an FFL receives the firearm for an interstate transfer, so if the receiving FFL wants it shipped by an FFL it will be going through a California FFL that must abide by California law.

Yes but California law for sale, not purchase. Much easier(again sell it to someone who is legally allowed to own in his/her state). I think I'd pass on someone from NJ.

As they are no longer labeling new models as assault weapons the ability to register one no longer exists during a temporary window.

If they are not on the list currently they are NOT assault weapons and do not have to be registered. There hasn't been a temporary registration in years.

If you alter or modify anything that makes it qualify as an assault weapon then you have done the illegal act and not the FFL.

But most of that is off topic the person wants to buy the weapon does not live in the state of California and we can only assume that he/she can legally purchase this in the state of residence.

If you enjoyed reading about "Buying an "Assault Weapon" from someone in California" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!