Concealed Cary Badges???


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huntinggamo
September 30, 2010, 10:42 AM
browsing through the internet i see cc badges, similar to police badges, anyone know the legality of these? i live in Colorado and would be interested to hear some opinions... ( dont some states issue badges for cc?)

Mainly im wondering if it would be a good thing or bad thing to have, if i am CC and for some reason my sidearm is exposed and i have a badge next to it the general public might not panic as much, also if OC it would calm alot of by passers ( i dont oc but just for argument ). i could also see it helping ID you as a good guy to LEO's arriving on the scene while you are holding BG at gun point? most people just see a gold badge, very few ever get close enough or pay enough attention to realize it is not a LEO badge, could this also backfire and get you arrested for impersonation or some crap?

If anyone here is LEO i would like to know that in your post and your thoughts on the subject....

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texas bulldog
September 30, 2010, 10:43 AM
Horrible. Just horrible. Stay far, far away. Use the search function for more posts than you care to read on this topic.

Hk Dan
September 30, 2010, 10:44 AM
Bad thing. Listen to the nice man above me.

jimmyraythomason
September 30, 2010, 10:46 AM
Stay far, far away Good advice!

CoRoMo
September 30, 2010, 10:46 AM
Oh my gosh, not this again. If ever a stupider idea there was.

huntinggamo
September 30, 2010, 10:49 AM
i will search, nice to see a unified response.....

Wispa
September 30, 2010, 10:50 AM
"Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges! I don't have to show you any stinkin' badges!" :D

JoeMal
September 30, 2010, 10:50 AM
What's the point of conceal carry if you wear a badge saying "I'm concealing a firearm"?

KarenTOC
September 30, 2010, 10:51 AM
if i am CC and for some reason my sidearm is exposed and i have a badge next to it the general public might not panic as much

Only because they'd think you're a police officer.

Never a good idea to impersonate a police officer, even accidentally.

Tommygunn
September 30, 2010, 10:56 AM
Only because they'd think you're a police officer.

Never a good idea to impersonate a police officer, even accidentally.

+100000!

These badges serve one purpose. To make $$$$ for the companies that sell them.
They are utterly useless. And as KarenTOC stated, they have REALLY BAD unintended consequences.

NavyLCDR
September 30, 2010, 10:57 AM
This is a product that is going to get someone killed:
http://legallyarmed.com/resources/reflectorsystem.htm

It's a reflective wallet for your CPL/CWP/CCW/CHL. Let me explain the problem with this...

First, when a LEO comes on the scene where he/she knows that guns are involved, they typically want to see one thing right away: empty hands, in plain sight, not moving. Flashing a badge/badge holder is not conducive to the LEO seeing empty hands, in plain sight, not moving.

Now, move that situation to night time. At night, night vision and the ability to preserve night vision are paramount. In a situation where a cop may be looking for an active shooter, flashing this reflective badge holder at them is going to destroy that night vision. In addition to that, it is drawing their attention away from where an active shooter may be hiding and focusing their attention on your stupid reflector. You've just put that LEO at a huge disadvantage.

Finally, if there is an active shooter at night and they are looking for targets, guess what you've just done by holding up this reflector...

franconialocal
September 30, 2010, 10:59 AM
Fancy badge or no badge.....if I don't know you, and you aren't in uniform or pulling up in a fully marked cruiser then I'm going to treat you the same as I would anyone else at/entering my scene.

These badges are a waste of money and they hold NO legal "weight" in court as a show of authority or as backing up any kind of powers of arrest.

If any officer judges who the good guys are by just a show of a CC badge then they need to find another line of work.

rattletrap1970
September 30, 2010, 10:59 AM
Where's my 1st amendment badge for for speaking my mind? Where's my 4th amendment badge for not allowing myself to be unjustly searched and detained? I see no purpose of carrying a badge to tell anyone I am carrying concealed or not. In CT you can carry concealed or not and I do. That's it.

Jorg Nysgerrig
September 30, 2010, 11:00 AM
As I've stated before, the only person I knew with a CCW badge (and this was over 10 years ago at this point) told me he clipped it next to his gun in case his jacket ever blew open. I suspect that as he got out of his surplus Crown Vic, his jacket blew open all the time.

I'm not going to lock this one yet, just in case someone has some dazzling new insight on this since the last time it came up. I suspect someone will be by to lock it shortly.

rscalzo
September 30, 2010, 11:05 AM
Bet there are some that have their Eighteenth Amendment badge when they leave the store with a six pack.....

SharpsDressedMan
September 30, 2010, 11:20 AM
A badge means nothing, either police or non-police, if it has no authority behind it. If a person wearing a uniform and a badge does not have a given authority and an I.D. to go with his stated persona, then he has a problem. If the badge says security guard, he needs a similar authorizing I.D. to go with his security badge. If his badge says "U.S. Taxpayer", so be it. As a former cop, I personally didn't care what the guys badge said. Even if he was another cop from another jurisdiction, he was limited to making arrests in another juridiction under the "citizen's arrest" part of our state law, the same as a non-police citizen. A cop has to assess, very quickly, how he is going to react to any situation, and the presence of badges adds a new dimension, but doesn't relieve the cop of any responsibility to safety and assessment. Some officers act with "arrest them all, sort it out later", etc. If I had encountered a guy with a "concealed carry" badge, it wouldn't have gotten me all worked up. If that person was not trying to pass himself off as a cop (testimony, actions, attempting to I.D. himself as cop or arresting ouside of a citizen's limited capacity, etc), then he is just carrying a badge, not pretending to be a cop. We have come to asssociate badges with cops, but firemen wear badges, too. Military MP's wear badges, but their juridiction is severely limited, and if not on duty, means nothing in the civilian world, etc. Postal inspectors at the nearby convenience store, etc, might have a badge on, but they are outside theri juridiction with no powers. Only the people assigned the task, and duly empowered, in their proper juridictions have the power to go with any badge. Any other time, the badge is just part of the costume/uniform. I've seen too many cops take the badge thing personally, as if they needed to put down anyone else with a badge to make themselves feel more important. Sorry if this hits too close to home for some, but as a retired cop, I get to take the cheap shot.:D

jimmyraythomason
September 30, 2010, 11:46 AM
Where's my 1st amendment badge for for speaking my mind?Well,I get this nifty little paper sticker put on my shirt on election day that says "I Voted".

Bob M.
September 30, 2010, 11:51 AM
Okay......lock it up.:D

CajunBass
September 30, 2010, 11:57 AM
I've thought about getting one. I think it would be funny as a prop when I take a picture of a gun. :D I probably never will unless they go on sale for about $2.00.

Robert
September 30, 2010, 11:59 AM
My carry badge is the little card I was issued that says "El Paso County Sheriff's Office Concealed Handgun Permit" across the top...

bartman06
September 30, 2010, 12:02 PM
This is a problem waiting to happen!! I'm staying away!

FourteenMiles
September 30, 2010, 12:07 PM
"if i am CC and for some reason my sidearm is exposed and i have a badge next to it the general public might not panic as much, also if OC it would calm alot of by passers"

Why would it calm passer bys when they see a badge?

"...most people just see a gold badge, very few ever get close enough or pay enough attention to realize it is not a LEO badge"

So the reason you're considereing the CC badge is so people will assume you're a cop. That is incredibly cheesy.

jmorris
September 30, 2010, 12:18 PM
This is a product that is going to get someone killed:
http://legallyarmed.com/resources/reflectorsystem.htm


That is as dumb as a CC badge. How about, if the state didn't give it to me I don't need it. Adding moving parts to an anvil...

wheelgunslinger
September 30, 2010, 12:27 PM
How about, if the state didn't give it to me I don't need it.
Close.

"How about, if the constitution or natural law doesn't grant it, then I don't need it."

The whole point of THR is to help people feel more open and at ease with seeing firearms and interacting with firearm owners. That's a good purpose.

I don't need to piggyback on some false authority of a police officer or the state to assert my natural rights.

I'd much rather have the "because it's my natural right" conversation than the "uh, no I'm not a cop. I got the badge mail order." conversation with an interested stranger.

herkyguy
September 30, 2010, 12:51 PM
badges are for boyscouts.

Mainsail
September 30, 2010, 01:03 PM
My carry badge is the little card I was issued that says "El Paso County Sheriff's Office Concealed Handgun Permit" across the top...

LoL! My badge is...well, nothing. I carry (openly) with no approval documents of any kind, or even ID for that matter. ;)

mcdonl
September 30, 2010, 01:44 PM
You would look like a dork. I do not even wear the one that was issued to me by the fire department when I work because I just feel like badges are for PD...

Hatterasguy
September 30, 2010, 01:45 PM
Mall ninja gear.

Old Shooter
September 30, 2010, 01:49 PM
Just puts you one step closer to being charged with impersonating a police officer.

Dnaltrop
September 30, 2010, 02:27 PM
Narcissistic Hooey.

I put a CCW badge displayer slightly above someone deliberately stapling their groin for Youtube.

Just cut out the middleman and wear the gun OC, and carry any applicable laws on a Business card in your wallet

If you get a LEO called on you. give the card to the Freakout caller and the Officer.

Russ Jackson
September 30, 2010, 02:32 PM
Badges ...We don't need no Stinking Badges...Russ

ShooterMcGavin
September 30, 2010, 02:56 PM
You guys/gals are ALL wrong!!! These badges are GREAT!!! I want to buy one for every friend of mine who carries! They are the perfect gag gift. You guys are totally missing a great opportunity to mess with your friends with CCW badges :D

You can also tell all your friends who want to start carrying that they need to get a CCW badge first.

dusty14u
September 30, 2010, 03:08 PM
Everyone knows these badges are babe magnets.;) And to top it off you need your tactical CCW sash so you can be prepared for any event.:D

http://www.dsmsafety.com/ccw.html

mcdonl
September 30, 2010, 03:28 PM
I have one that says "Place attractive women, and buckets of cash at my feet...." best $30 I ever spent.

NavyLCDR
September 30, 2010, 03:32 PM
Just cut out the middleman and wear the gun OC, and carry any applicable laws on a Business card in your wallet

If you get a LEO called on you. give the card to the Freakout caller and the Officer.

You think cops get pi$$ed off when you wear a gun bigger than theirs? I'll be they get even more pi$$ed off when your badge is bigger than theirs too! :neener:

Dnaltrop
September 30, 2010, 03:37 PM
I must piss off a lot of cops.... :D

But it's fun handing old West guns to Glock addicts :D

i DO have a badge in my house... It's my Deceased Great Uncles's badge, mounted to the Plaque commemorating his 22 years of service as a Special Officer. (and a good number of "ride along for funsies" years with his buddies after that)

Dravur
September 30, 2010, 04:11 PM
so, the consensus is to buy one and proudly wear it on your belt?

:neener:

Yeah, if anyone ever flashed one of those at me, I would be sorely tempted to deride them mercilessly as being a mall ninja or a complete... not a partial... ignoramus

Sauer Grapes
September 30, 2010, 04:16 PM
I'm not sure I get it, are you guys for or against this idea???????? It would go nicely with my secret decoder ring!

bikerdoc
September 30, 2010, 04:29 PM
The only badge I have is my retired LEO badge, in the console of my truck, never have taken it out in 19 years, Better check it might be tarnished.

If I did run across a guy with one I would ask him " so how are things in moms basement, like your job wearing the smokey the bear hat at the mall, and what level are you on with your newest video game"

About time to put this one to sleep.

raveneap
September 30, 2010, 04:37 PM
At the risk of being redundant, Stay Away from these CCW badges - for all of the reasons already mentioned. What really scares me is how many people are carrying concealed for the same reason some want the CCW badges .....

jimmyraythomason
September 30, 2010, 04:52 PM
What really scares me is how many people are carrying concealed for the same reason some want the CCW badges ..... Whoa! That IS scary!

Grey Morel
September 30, 2010, 05:01 PM
WE have enough problems being conflated as 'posers' and 'want to be cops' in the public eye. These trinkets only hurt our causes and agenda.

I have no tolerance for people who display them.

oldbanjo
September 30, 2010, 05:02 PM
A badge can get you in more trouble than you can get out of. What if someone, an ex girlfriend accused you of something and said you showed her a badge. You won't be needing a CWP for a long time.

SharpsDressedMan
September 30, 2010, 05:09 PM
Here's a related question, worthy of some thought: If you are a retired cop, do you carry your "retired" badge, or something that identifies you as a retired police officer, along with your gun? Isn't that just about as misleading as carrying a CCW badge? You RETIRED, and really don't have any arrest powers anymore. Wouldn't you just be carrying it to get out of a speeding ticket, or impress someone over what you USED to do for living? I'm a retired cop, and I have accepted what I am now. I'm a regular citizen, no more special or privileged than anybody else. FWIW: I don't have a CCW badge OR a retired badge. Maybe I'll just get me a "regular guy" badge, as I am very regular........

FourteenMiles
September 30, 2010, 05:14 PM
Do cops really have many privelages that ordinary citizens do not? I always thought cops carried a weapon to protect themselves, just as regular citizens do.

I also think I read somewhere that if a citizen is able to stop a felon and does not that that citizen could be charged with a crime (not sure on this though). I don't think what I read was directed towards armed citizens but I thought it could apply. Does anyone know what I am talking about?

W.E.G.
September 30, 2010, 05:19 PM
badges???

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/humor/badges.png

Russ Jackson
September 30, 2010, 05:26 PM
Here are a few from 1890 to 1915 from Montana and Wyoming...Russ

http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr1/RussJackson/badges1.jpg

The Lone Haranguer
September 30, 2010, 06:05 PM
These badges are a waste of money and they hold NO legal "weight" in court as a show of authority or as backing up any kind of powers of arrest.

What do you want to bet that most purchasers of these badges think they do? :rolleyes: Or that they also don't read THR? :)

Skylerbone
September 30, 2010, 06:20 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=128368&d=1285885168

Skylerbone
September 30, 2010, 06:38 PM
ALWAYS IDENTIFY YOURSELF! LET EVERYBODY KNOW!

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=128370&d=1285886216

ShooterMcGavin
September 30, 2010, 06:49 PM
Everyone knows these badges are babe magnets. And to top it off you need your tactical CCW sash so you can be prepared for any event.

http://www.dsmsafety.com/ccw.html
This is just too funny!!! I am actually thinking of buying one of these to give to a friend :D

Robert Wilson
September 30, 2010, 08:36 PM
I think it's an interesting and valid question. I understand why a person can have no desire to impersonate an officer and no interest in broadcasting his "importance" as a CCW holder, while still believing that a badge located close to his carry gun could be useful in case of a truly accidental exposure of his gun. Are there any valid, non-snarky reasons why that is a bad idea?

CHEVELLE427
September 30, 2010, 08:44 PM
it is for the want to be someone special person

and i guess for $45 you would be special. or at least be $45 lighter,

there at the gun showes all the time.

pbearperry
September 30, 2010, 08:46 PM
Badges are for Boy Scouts,Cops,and Firemen.Say this over and over until understood.Once learned you will have no further problems with this same ole question.News at 11.lol

NavyLCDR
September 30, 2010, 08:49 PM
I think it's an interesting and valid question. I understand why a person can have no desire to impersonate an officer and no interest in broadcasting his "importance" as a CCW holder, while still believing that a badge located close to his carry gun could be useful in case of a truly accidental exposure of his gun. Are there any valid, non-snarky reasons why that is a bad idea?

I will repeat it....

This is a product that is going to get someone killed:
http://legallyarmed.com/resources/reflectorsystem.htm

It's a reflective wallet for your CPL/CWP/CCW/CHL. Let me explain the problem with this...

First, when a LEO comes on the scene where he/she knows that guns are involved, they typically want to see one thing right away: empty hands, in plain sight, not moving. Flashing a badge/badge holder is not conducive to the LEO seeing empty hands, in plain sight, not moving.

Now, move that situation to night time. At night, night vision and the ability to preserve night vision are paramount. In a situation where a cop may be looking for an active shooter, flashing this reflective badge holder at them is going to destroy that night vision. In addition to that, it is drawing their attention away from where an active shooter may be hiding and focusing their attention on your stupid reflector. You've just put that LEO at a huge disadvantage.

Finally, if there is an active shooter at night and they are looking for targets, guess what you've just done by holding up this reflector...

MYREDTAIL
September 30, 2010, 09:39 PM
Forget the Badge Idea insted go onto this web site LEGALLY ARMED ID POUCH.COM & read the story & then decide which one you rather be caught with should the SHTF happens, I bought one last year & have reccommended this pouch to other's for the price of just $15.00 it's well worth it, after you read their web site post your thought's on the pouch or send me an E mail & let me know what you think of it? I think you will find it better, safer than any Badge. These pouches have been proven to be 100% effective, I know what NAVYLT is saying but I have heard from people that have used them effectely for some time now without any LE problems etc.

Skylerbone
September 30, 2010, 10:31 PM
Non-snarky? Here goes: CONCEALED MEANS CONCEALED! If you show that weapon at any time you had better count the time till the police arrive. (it won't take long) If you can't keep it out of the public's eye then you won't have a permit to carry period.

If you have any doubt as to whether or not your carry option will leave it exposed then there is no doubt. Find a fannypack. Find a briefcase. Most importantly, unless you are absolutely positive you're about to pull the trigger, DON'T DISPLAY IT!

That piece of paper has more potential to ruin your life than a Russian mail-order bride. It gives NO ONE the right to intimidate others. It does not authorize the use of deadly force to avoid confrontation. It does not keep you from being sued in a court of law and it may get you shot if police arrive and see a pistol in your hands.

Anyone thinking about concealed carry needs to put a serious amount of time into thinking about whether or not it's a viable option for them. This includes a bit of a gut check:

Am I willing to take the life of another if I feel a mortal threat is imminent?
Am I trained proficiently in the use of a firearm to minimize potential injury to self or bystanders?
Am I willing to accept the consequences of my actions should I injure/kill another while defending myself? Can you live with a prison term and no more firearms period? Can you live with yourself after shooting the 4 year old that was behind your attacker? Are your children there watching?
Is there a better option or non-lethal option available that is more practical? Mace? Collapsable batton?

Humor is one thing, I felt the idea of a badge was comical at best. I can see some people took exception to that humor and I have posted the above for their consideration. If it is at times muddled I apologize. When in doubt, refer back to paragraph #1, concealed MEANS CONCEALED!

NavyLCDR
September 30, 2010, 10:35 PM
Forget the Badge Idea insted go onto this web site LEGALLY ARMED ID POUCH.COM & read the story & then decide which one you rather be caught with should the SHTF happens, I bought one last year & have reccommended this pouch to other's for the price of just $15.00 it's well worth it, after you read their web site post your thought's on the pouch or send me an E mail & let me know what you think of it? I think you will find it better, safer than any Badge. These pouches have been proven to be 100% effective, I know what NAVYLT is saying but I have heard from people that have used them effectely for some time now without any LE problems etc.

http://legallyarmed.com/resources/reflectorsystem.htm

Do you really want to trust what a company has to say that has this in their product (look at the sample cards about 1/2 way down the link I posted above):

"For: Law Enforcement Officer
I have been advised that if I have been in a self-defense incident , it is in my best interest to speak to an attorney before issuing any statement. This card will provide you with information about me, that will assist you with your report. I do not wish to loose any of my Rights."

Loose you rights? What happens if you loose your rights? Do they spill out on the ground?!?

and

"Weapon Data Card
In case my weapon was stolen during from my home, vehicle, or during any type of incident, here is the data on my carry guns:"

During from my home?!? I can't even come up with a smart a$$ comment for that one.

So, do you really want to trust a company that says their product will help you out during a police encounter that has such a profoundly proficient command of the English language?

rscalzo
September 30, 2010, 10:38 PM
Badge and documents....Made in China

NavyLCDR
September 30, 2010, 10:59 PM
Badge and documents....Made in China

sold at Wal Mart.

evan price
September 30, 2010, 11:07 PM
If you are going to get a CCW badge, you should also consider getting some red and blue lights to mount inside the grille of your car, that way you can make sure people will not miss your CCW badge.

If you can find an old Motorola trunked radio handi-talkie, clipping that to your pants adjacent to your CCW gun will helpfully reinforce the CCW badge.

It might also be a good idea to buy a dark blue or grey Ford Crown Victoria as your driver and take off the wheel covers. Radio Shack sells stick-on antennas inexpensively, if you put 3-4 of them on the back deck it will go a long way to helping your image of a responsible CCW.

Finally, when discussing your interactions with other persons on internet forums, you should always mention "Blading" or "Slicing the pie" in every other paragraph. You could also use such phrases as "Checking your six", "Surveying the AO", "Scanning the environment", "Locating cover", "Press checks", "Condition Orange", and "Tactical Approach".

Or you could spend the money otherwise wasted on a CCW badge on some GOOD holsters and a GOOD gun belt, conceal your gun well, and go about your business knowing that 99% of the folks out there wouldn't notice anyway.

Sebastian the Ibis
September 30, 2010, 11:30 PM
I always thought they were a joke, until I one day I actually came across a robbery scene. A couple of guys were stealing the equipment out of a landscapers van, the landscaper tried to stop them and got run over as one of the perps drove off. An off-duty/plainclothes LEO drew his gun and attempted to hold the thief who was left behind. That perp took off. The officer put his badge around his neck, made a call on his cell phone, and attended to the run over landscaper. As other LEO's flooded the area, the undercover/plainclothes LEO directed the other LEOs in the direction of the perps.

It made me realize that if you are ever in a SD situation, having a badge around your neck will prevent you from being shot by the responding officers. That in and of itself is worth something. If you are unlucky enough to catch a burglar/thief/rapist at gun point a fake badge around your neck will prevent you from being shot as LEO's respond. I'm sure the LEO's will criticize you afterwards, but if you are not shot that is a win.

NavyLCDR
September 30, 2010, 11:33 PM
ummmm..... yeah. :scrutiny:

http://static.funnyjunk.com/pictures/241652_m730_____10.jpg

Skylerbone
September 30, 2010, 11:36 PM
Hope some hapless beat cop doesn't 10-28 that ^^^10-37. He's liable to go hot. I think I have to grab a bag now, I'm hyperventilating and I might need new underwear, had a 10-31 in my pants. Way to go, Evan!

Robert Wilson
September 30, 2010, 11:42 PM
I will repeat it....

This is a product that is going to get someone killed:
http://legallyarmed.com/resources/reflectorsystem.htm

It's a reflective wallet for your CPL/CWP/CCW/CHL. Let me explain the problem with this...

First, when a LEO comes on the scene where he/she knows that guns are involved, they typically want to see one thing right away: empty hands, in plain sight, not moving. Flashing a badge/badge holder is not conducive to the LEO seeing empty hands, in plain sight, not moving.

Now, move that situation to night time. At night, night vision and the ability to preserve night vision are paramount. In a situation where a cop may be looking for an active shooter, flashing this reflective badge holder at them is going to destroy that night vision. In addition to that, it is drawing their attention away from where an active shooter may be hiding and focusing their attention on your stupid reflector. You've just put that LEO at a huge disadvantage.

Finally, if there is an active shooter at night and they are looking for targets, guess what you've just done by holding up this reflector...

Great. But neither I nor the OP wrote anything about reflective wallets or holding things up for people to see. Can you think of any good reasons why it's a poor idea to keep a CCW badge on your belt next to your carry piece?

Robert Wilson
September 30, 2010, 11:48 PM
Non-snarky? Here goes: CONCEALED MEANS CONCEALED! If you show that weapon at any time you had better count the time till the police arrive. (it won't take long) If you can't keep it out of the public's eye then you won't have a permit to carry period.

That all sounds very good, yet this site is full of stories about people who accidentally displayed their CCW guns. As I am not allowed to carry where I live I really can't speak authoritatively on the matter, but it does appear to me that a lot of folks have accidentally "flashed" their carry pieces. Perhaps they are all irresponsible, but I do understand that accidents happen, and I can understand how the general public might be less likely to be startled or concerned if they see a badge alongside the holstered gun. I am still unsure if there is a downside to the practice.

NavyLCDR
September 30, 2010, 11:48 PM
Great. But neither I nor the OP wrote anything about reflective wallets or holding things up for people to see. Can you think of any good reasons why it's a poor idea to keep a CCW badge on your belt next to your carry piece?

Because the bad guys will see it and shoot you first in a robbery?

Why not just show the cops or anyone else concerned your real CCW permit instead of a plastic toy bought from a novelty store?

Robert Wilson
September 30, 2010, 11:52 PM
Because the bad guys will see it and shoot you first in a robbery?

Why not just show the cops your real CCW permit instead of a plastic toy bought from a novelty store?

I think perhaps you still misunderstand me. The badge is concealed alongside the gun. If one is visible, so is the other, and barring serious error neither will ever be seen. The intent is only to calm the fears of any hoplophobes who might be present during an accidental "flash".

Ragnar Danneskjold
October 1, 2010, 12:02 AM
I will repeat it....

This is a product that is going to get someone killed:
http://legallyarmed.com/resources/reflectorsystem.htm

It's a reflective wallet for your CPL/CWP/CCW/CHL. Let me explain the problem with this...

First, when a LEO comes on the scene where he/she knows that guns are involved, they typically want to see one thing right away: empty hands, in plain sight, not moving. Flashing a badge/badge holder is not conducive to the LEO seeing empty hands, in plain sight, not moving.

Now, move that situation to night time. At night, night vision and the ability to preserve night vision are paramount. In a situation where a cop may be looking for an active shooter, flashing this reflective badge holder at them is going to destroy that night vision. In addition to that, it is drawing their attention away from where an active shooter may be hiding and focusing their attention on your stupid reflector. You've just put that LEO at a huge disadvantage.

Finally, if there is an active shooter at night and they are looking for targets, guess what you've just done by holding up this reflector...

Bad idea or not, I'm wondering; why exactly that is going to get someone killed?

Centaur 1
October 1, 2010, 12:04 AM
But if we wear a badge around our neck, we will look really cool. Just like when "Dog The Bounty Hunter" starts chasing a bad guy down the street with his paint ball gun. :what::evil::what:

NavyLCDR
October 1, 2010, 12:07 AM
Bad idea or not, I'm wondering; why exactly that is going to get someone killed?

At night when you are caught in a SHTF situation, which is obviously the situation the reflective case is meant for:

In a situation where a cop may be looking for an active shooter, flashing this reflective badge holder at them is going to destroy that night vision. In addition to that, it is drawing their attention away from where an active shooter may be hiding and focusing their attention on your stupid reflector. You've just put that LEO at a huge disadvantage.

If there is an active shooter at night and they are looking for targets, guess what you've just done by holding up this reflector...you have provided them with a clear, easy to see target, designed to mimic a police officer's ID case.

If you've ever been on patrol, at night, looking a scene over for bad guys, such as I have done, you would know what a bad idea the reflector is.

Ragnar Danneskjold
October 1, 2010, 12:11 AM
If you've ever been on patrol, at night, looking a scene over for bad guys, such as I have done, you would know what a bad idea the reflector is.

I have. Against people with AKs, as you might have as well given your screen name. I don't send rounds at whatever is shiny though, and if there's enough light to make that small reflector ruin my night vision, the light source itself has already done that.

NavyLCDR
October 1, 2010, 12:13 AM
I think perhaps you still misunderstand me. The badge is concealed alongside the gun. If one is visible, so is the other, and barring serious error neither will ever be seen. The intent is only to calm the fears of any hoplophobes who might be present during an accidental "flash".

First, how likely is it that the gun is going to be seen by the hoplophobe AND a plastic toy badge is going to fix it?

Second, how about if you are stopped by LEO for anything... maybe even a traffic stop. LEO asks you if you have any weapons, because maybe he discovered your permit when checking your driver's license. You answer, yes, I have a concealed handgun. The cop desires to disarm you, "for officer safety" of course, and discovers this plastic toy badge next to your gun. Kind officer says to you, "And just what in the hell is this?!?"

I think either scenario, the first or the second have about the same chances of happening. Like I said, just show the real permit that actually has authority behind it, if you want to show anything.... :banghead:

NavyLCDR
October 1, 2010, 12:16 AM
I don't send rounds at whatever is shiny though and you can guarantee that a criminal (or an inept cop) at night won't?

Centaur 1
October 1, 2010, 12:16 AM
If there is an active shooter at night and they are looking for targets, guess what you've just done by holding up this reflector...you have provided them with a clear, easy to see target, designed to mimic a police officer's ID case.


That's probably one reason that my town embroiders a badge with Grey thread to the uniform shirt. The metal badge stays in the I.D. wallet with his credentials.

Robert Wilson
October 1, 2010, 12:25 AM
First, how likely is it that the gun is going to be seen by the hoplophobe AND a plastic toy badge is going to fix it?

Judging by the threads I have seen at THR, many CCW holders have accidentally flashed their concealed handguns. Is it such a stretch to assume that at least a few of those "flashes" were visible to bystanders? And is it such a stretch to imagine that at least some of those bystanders would be unconcerned about an armed LEO and more concerned about an armed "just some guy"? Not in my opinion.

Second, how about if you are stopped by LEO for anything... maybe even a traffic stop. LEO asks you if you have any weapons, because maybe he discovered your permit when checking your driver's license. You answer, yes, I have a concealed handgun. The cop desires to disarm you, "for officer safety" of course, and discovers this plastic toy badge next to your gun. Kind officer says to you, "And just what in the hell is this?!?"

"It's a CCW badge, officer. I'm not pretending to be anybody; I just don't want to set off a panic if someone accidentally sees my gun."

I think either scenario, the first or the second have about the same chances of happening.

The same argument could be used against the entire principal of CCW. The chances of actually needing a gun, of course, are quite slim. That does not mean that the chances are zero, however, which is why the wise man carries where practicable, despite any HCI foolishness about "wild west" and "shot with his own gun".

Like I said, just show the real permit that actually has authority behind it, if you want to show anything....

I have seen leather and plastic cases designed to hold the CCW permit. They look quite "official" and could well serve the same purpose as a badge. But it seems to me that they are subject to the same potential problems, as well. Is the general opinion that a man wearing his permit in an officious manner is trying to convince us that he is something he is not?

Ragnar Danneskjold
October 1, 2010, 12:25 AM
and you can guarantee that a criminal (or an inept cop) at night won't?

But that's dodging the point. This is a "make yourself known" device. This assumes, you the carrier of such a device, want yourself to be seen by responding officers. There is nothing to be gained from trying to identify yourself to responding officers, but in a dark and poorly visible manner. If there's bad guys still around, you're a target shiny thing or not. If the cop is inept enough to shoot at the first shiny object he sees, you're a target shiny thing or not. My point being, if the circumstance add up to you being shot by a responding officer or still active bad guy, this little device is not going to be the thing that makes or breaks you.

NavyLCDR
October 1, 2010, 12:32 AM
I am still going to stick with my opinion that flashing anything shiny at a cop at night during a shtf situation is a bad idea, when the cop was called out due to a shots fired situation already.

Ragnar Danneskjold
October 1, 2010, 12:34 AM
I am still going to stick with my opinion that flashing anything shiny at a cop at night during a shtf situation is a bad idea, when the cop was called out due to a shots fired situation already.

Roger that Sir.

Skylerbone
October 1, 2010, 01:07 AM
Wow! I can see someone REALLY WANTS ONE! Stupid things happen to stupid people. If I were ever involved in a shooting it would be because I could not safely flee and there was no other sensible alternative meaning I was being/about to be fired upon. Assuming the threat had been neutralized, I guarantee that my "carry piece" (I call it a pistol) would be back in its holster before I heard sirens. My hands would be more than visible, they would be laced behind my head when police arrived. But I'm one of those guys that doesn't want to be shot.

I'll repeat what I said before: if you "accidentally" "flash your carry piece" (again, I call it a pistol) you won't have that privlege for long. Once you're charged with a gun crime, they take them away. I don't make excuses for idiots and neither should anyone else. Maybe a nice tube sock over the "carry piece" would keep it hidden in case of "accidental flashes".

Even if you have the right to carry you must determine if you SHOULD. With laws changing everywhere there are bound to be multitudes "packing heat" that shouldn't be. Buy your badge, it won't help you.

NavyLCDR
October 1, 2010, 01:33 AM
Let me ask you this Robert Wilson,

Let's say a cop asks you why you have the plastic toy badge located next to your gun on your belt. What are you going to tell him? "So that if my gun is accidentally exposed, a person won't call 911 on me." The real cop then asks you, "Why wouldn't they call 911 if they saw your gun and your plastic badge?" and you reply, "Well, because they might think I am a law enforcement officer and therefore think it is OK for me to have the gun?" Then the real cop asks you, "So, you are wearing the badge to make someone think that you are a cop if they see your gun?"

How well do you think that is going to go for you? ESPECIALLY if someone does call 911 and says, "You know, I saw this guy, and he had a gun... he had a badge next to it, but something just didn't look right to me..."

Robert Wilson
October 1, 2010, 01:44 AM
In the exact scenario you have constructed I doubt it would go well at all. But that scenario is your own construct.

I suspect there is a better answer than "because they might think I am a law enforcement officer and therefore think it is OK for me to have the gun". In a similar situation I might try "If someone accidentally saw the badge along with the gun they might be more likely to assume I am legally carrying it".

Personally I think the main line against badges is the (quite reasonable) argument that many people inclined to wear badges are also trying to pretend they are "special" and are hoping to show off their "specialness" whenever possible. As prejudicial as that is, though, I don't see it as a good reason not to wear a badge for the reason I describe. I remain open to the possibility that there is a very good reason not to wear the badge. I just haven't yet seen it.

Robert Wilson
October 1, 2010, 01:50 AM
Wow! I can see someone REALLY WANTS ONE!

No call to be an ass about it, mate. It's just a discussion. I don't have a horse in the race, so to speak, as I can't carry in my jurisdiction.

Stupid things happen to stupid people. If I were ever involved in a shooting it would be because I could not safely flee and there was no other sensible alternative meaning I was being/about to be fired upon. Assuming the threat had been neutralized, I guarantee that my "carry piece" (I call it a pistol) would be back in its holster before I heard sirens. My hands would be more than visible, they would be laced behind my head when police arrived. But I'm one of those guys that doesn't want to be shot.

Again, I have seen posts by any number of folks on this site who have accidentally exposed their carry pieces -- which, by the way, was a term often used by Jeff Cooper, which would seem to lend it a certain validity. Regardless, all those folks may indeed be "stupid", but I'm glad I'm not the one who has to defend the accusation.

<edit> Actually, there seems to be enough emotion on the topic - for reasons that escape me - that I'm deleting the rest and going to bed. A lot of folks seem to be quite angrily against the idea, for reasons they can't quite elucidate. I think perhaps in the morning I will ask some questions about a less contentious topic. Abortion, for instance.

Cheers, all. :)

dec41971
October 1, 2010, 01:55 AM
Dumbest idea that somehow keeps being thrown out there. If only people would stay away from it! :rolleyes:

NavyLCDR
October 1, 2010, 02:21 AM
I suspect there is a better answer than "because they might think I am a law enforcement officer and therefore think it is OK for me to have the gun". In a similar situation I might try "If someone accidentally saw the badge along with the gun they might be more likely to assume I am legally carrying it".

I doubt there is a cop in the world who would not translate that into "by thinking you are a cop". If you want to cause someone to think you are legally carrying a gun, then show your dang permit - just don't do it in a reflective case at night to a cop in a shtf situation with shots already reported as being fired. The cop may just mistake that flash of the reflector as the flash off of a nickel plated gun...

nwilliams
October 1, 2010, 02:44 AM
CCW Badges are simply ridiculous and sad.

The whole point of having a CCL is to carry concealed, so why would you want to walk around with a badge advertising that you are carrying. Further the only reason I can see anyone wanting a CCW badge is if they wanted people to think they are LE and in that case you are not carrying concealed to protect yourself you are carrying with the intention of playing cop and as far as I'm concerned if you want to play cop then you need to become a cop.

ChCx2744
October 1, 2010, 02:52 AM
NOT a good idea. :uhoh:

TexasBill
October 1, 2010, 04:07 AM
Around here, we have a variety of badge-toters: dozens of various police, sheriff, constable agencies; assorted feds from U.S. Marshals to DHS, FBI and Secret Service, judges, firefighters, EMTs, school security and so forth. I was in a doughnut shop not long ago and there was a gentleman with a Glock on his belt and a badge clipped next to it in the accepted Hollywood/prime time TV fashion. He was a district attorney investigator.

In case of a shooting incident, the best way to show the responding officers that you're a good guy is open hands held away from your body. There's no point in either a badge or your license being on display at all: empty hands = no immediate threat to the officer. That should keep you alive long enough to show a license upon request. (Incidentally, despite the terrible grammar, the advice on that card is good: statements you don't make can't be used against you.)

If you want a badge, get a badge and go in peace. There must have been enough people who did buy them that reputable badge companies like Blackington and Smith & Warren require proof (a copy of the license or permit) before they will sell you a CCW badge, but there are any number of generic sources.

To be honest, I thought (briefly) about getting one because I open carry at home and figured it might forestall questions from the UPS man and others. But I wouldn't wear it in public for a couple of reasons: first, it might cause problems with the real police; second, it might make someone think I am a police officer and call on me to render aid or assistance that I couldn't provide. Either situation is bad.

Ragnar Danneskjold
October 1, 2010, 04:18 AM
To be honest, I thought (briefly) about getting one because I open carry at home and figured it might forestall questions from the UPS man and others. But I wouldn't wear it in public for a couple of reasons: first, it might cause problems with the real police; second, it might make someone think I am a police officer and call on me to render aid or assistance that I couldn't provide. Either situation is bad.

True enough. I think a lot of the people who buy these badges secretly do want to be mistaken for a police officer. But it's kind of a "the grass is always greener" type situation. Once you become a cop, being known as an officer for 8-12 hours a day is quite enough thanks. When I'm at Walmart or Jimmy Johns getting a sub, or even just hanging out with non-cop friends, I don't want to be broadcasting that image all the time. You get odd looks, you get awkward questions, and you're always "the cop" whenever you're at a party or out with buddies. It's tiresome. I generally don't like being out in public and knowing a lot of eyes are on me, especially when most of the minds behind those eyes are probably thinking I'm a big meanie-head <edit-Sam> just because of what job I have. I think most of the guys who get those CCW badges have some sort of hero complex and think it's cool to be looked at as special or something with their shiny badge and gun. But once you're out every night getting sworn at, spit at, lied to, and every once and a while, kicked and punched, you realize that badge attracts a lot more hatred than admiration.

Ramman911
October 1, 2010, 04:41 AM
Just spit soda out my nose from laughing so hard on some of the comments here. I have a friend that likes to "play dress up" and sport a CCW badge. I just don't have it in me to tell him he looks like a tool. I wouldn't be caught dead wearing one of those silly things.

Those sashes would make pretty good gag gifts.

evan price
October 1, 2010, 09:45 AM
What it goes down to is this:

A CCW is NOT license to be Batman. If you are such a lousy CCW that your gun is being seen all the time, maybe your problem is not lack of a badge, but lack of basic sense and training in how to carry properly. If the idea of being seen "Zounds! I've been seen!" is so terrible to you, maybe you should not be carrying in the first place. I have never, ever met anyone who had a CCW badge that was not also a cop-wannabe. So far I am 100% in this. No bit of shiny tin is going to make a difference if you are "seen"... the conversation would then go to,
"Are you a cop?"
"No!"
"Then why do you have a badge and gun, AiieEEEE!"

Save your money, spend it on GOOD holsters and belts and training. There's more to being a CCW than carrying a gun. Mindset is much more important than tools!

ETA: I guess I'm spoiled because Ohio is an open-carry state, and if I am "seen" I just say Good Morning! and keep on walking.

Jonah71
October 1, 2010, 09:58 AM
My CCW instructor and EVERY LEO I know tell me it's a bad idea and I'd have to agree with them. I occasionally OC but I'm in a very small town where pretty much everybody knows everybody and it's highly unlikely I'd ever be mistaken for a police officer, nor would I want to be. The badge is a bad idea. And kinda childish imo.

Jorg Nysgerrig
October 1, 2010, 10:27 AM
While some interesting points were brought up, it seems that no one is willing or able to address them fully. Maybe next month.

I'm going to close this one out.

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