is it possible?


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RonDeer10mm
October 1, 2010, 01:13 AM
that during the waiting periods the gun store owner if he wanted to, could shoot your gun before you if he wanted to without telling you. If I found out can he get in trouble?:mad:

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Ditch-Tiger
October 1, 2010, 01:32 AM
Possible, yes. Plausible, no.
Could they get into trouble? No, They own the firearm. (your buying it from them and they haven't transferred it to you yet so legally in the eyes of the BATFE its still theirs regardless of if you've paid in full or not)
First off, why would they want to? They have access to a lot of firearms and if they deal in used firearms, they could shoot those all they wanted to without defacing the value. Not only that, but why would they risk loosing your business?

NavyLCDR
October 1, 2010, 01:36 AM
All guns are test fired by the manufacturer.

RonDeer10mm
October 1, 2010, 01:38 AM
i know but what I mean is they take at the end of 1 saturday and put 300rds thru it and take it back to their shop

ForumSurfer
October 1, 2010, 10:07 AM
Seriously? If you are that suspicious of your FFL, find another dealer.

300 rounds isn't much for the record.

You should realize that no matter how sweet you may think your purchase is, your ffl has access to hundreds of firearms that are way more fun or nicer than what you are buying. So why would he want to risk future sales by test firing a pistol you purchased?

Lastly, depending on what you are buying...it may need a break-in of 500 rounds or so. If the dealer ran 300 rounds through it, I'd consider that a favor (if I knew about it)!

In all seriousness, it sounds like you are just being a wee bit too paranoid. Loosen up a bit and don't expect the worst from people you deal with. Normally I don't think of people as being overly paranoid...but you mentioned that you thought an FFL may be trying to intentionally sabotage your firearm in order to hurt you in another post. That's just a little over the top. I'm not chastising you, just offering some food for thought.

Sam1911
October 1, 2010, 10:08 AM
Let's just answer the question, ok?

Not terribly likely, but nothing's impossible. I'd have to have some incredibly conclusive evidence before I suspected them of doing something so off-the-wall -- AND I'd have to be able to discern what possible harm they'd caused me.

As already stated, the manufacturers test fire the guns before shipping and some of them don't clean them well (or at all) before boxing them up. If you see a bit of soot or powder residue, that's what I'd assume happened.

If you see heavy fouling, scratches/dings in the metal, wear marks, and other serious issues then something strange may be going on. But otherwise ... no.

Quiet
October 1, 2010, 10:57 AM
Is it possible, yes.

There's a few CA FFL dealers that have done this.

Once people find out, they tell others to avoid using them.

Tim the student
October 1, 2010, 11:04 AM
that during the waiting periods the gun store owner if he wanted to, could shoot your gun before you if he wanted to without telling you.

Anything is possible. But I think that the likelihood of an FFL taking my gun out to the range for some fun is about as likely as my FFL sabotaging my gun, or attempting to steal my gun, or someone taking away my birthday.

Zerodefect
October 1, 2010, 12:30 PM
So what if he deos? Any gun that can't handle being shot a few times really isn't that great now is it?

Even a SS target barrel isn't really going to get hurt unless he makes ammo out of Aid's or something.

TexasGunbie
October 1, 2010, 12:57 PM
So what if he deos? Any gun that can't handle being shot a few times really isn't that great now is it?

Even a SS target barrel isn't really going to get hurt unless he makes ammo out of Aid's or something.


So it's perfectly fine that you sign all the paperwork for a car, while you are sitting in the finance department, the car dealer decides to take the car out for a spin and do 20 donuts in a parking lot before giving the car back to you?

Also here in Houston, 300 rounds down a gun is consider a USED gun with a USED price tag. If I am buying a new gun, I would not have a SO WHAT attitude? So what he puts another 1000 rounds through it right? he's just testing my gun for me and charging a new gun price tag at the same time.

The point of the OP is that he signed for it, it's in processing, the ethical thing for the dealer is probably keep it in a safe.

22-rimfire
October 1, 2010, 01:02 PM
It's possible. The most likely scenario is a FFL dealer with a range. I would be pretty irritated if I could prove it as a buyer of a specific firearm. Does it matter? It could. But if you are going to shoot the gun, I don't see any harm done. If you are collecting a gun, it would be a huge issue for me.

Sam1911
October 1, 2010, 01:27 PM
I wouldn't consider it ethical or a particularly NICE thing to do, either. I don't mean to brush off that action as acceptable. My point is that I'd need to be MIGHTY darned sure I had something more than an ufounded hunch before I accused anyone of something like that.

How do I KNOW?
What damage or wear can I point to as "proof?"

Some of us have mildly paranoid natures. That's not enough to toss around accusations.

1911Tuner
October 1, 2010, 01:43 PM
Ethical? No. Unheard of? I've never known or even suspected a dealer of firing a new gun before selling it...whether or not it was under contract...without prior consent from the buyer. Used gun? Possible. Even likely. Given the available range, some dealers will test-fire a used gun to make sure it's serviceable before placing it in the display case.

buck460XVR
October 1, 2010, 02:10 PM
that during the waiting periods the gun store owner if he wanted to, could shoot your gun before you if he wanted to without telling you. If I found out can he get in trouble?:mad:


You still have the option to refuse the gun at time of transfer. If it looks abused than ask 'em. If you don't trust their answer you shouldn't be shopping there anyway, cause they probably overcharged you. Guns bought off the shelf and looked at many times, have been handled rough already and sometimes, as in the case of slammin' a 1911 home on a empty chamber, the gun has suffered more abuse than being shot. I'm bettin' they ain't even looked at that firearm since they set it aside.

CoRoMo
October 1, 2010, 02:58 PM
Okay, one scenario that I thought of was this: An at-home licensee, whose business really only amounts to transferring online sales to his state's resident customers. So he receives the NIB Silver Pigeon that you bought online, and he's read a lot about these guns and he just loves the way it looks and feels. He runs out to the range and dusts a box of clays with it before bringing it back to his house, cleans it up and calls you to tell you that it has arrived.

I'd be tempted to call him a thief in that situation.

MrOldLude
October 1, 2010, 03:10 PM
If it's a problem, get your money back. Do business elsewhere.

LoonWulf
October 1, 2010, 03:23 PM
I have a friend who has his ffl, and does transfers out of his house. His deal is that if he wants to try your gun he'll call, let you know, and arrange to meet you at our local shooting spot with gun and ammo. If you dont want to then no big deal.

9mmepiphany
October 1, 2010, 03:43 PM
Two questions.

Why would you think your FFL would do this?

If you think they would, why are you doing business with them?

Just as an aside, I would rather a FFL had tested a used gun before selling it...just to see that it works

rr2241tx
October 1, 2010, 07:59 PM
No FFL dealer I know would even work the action on a new gun that was under contract. If he did and by some miracle he noticed something wasn't right, then he'd have liability for knowing of a defect and not telling the buyer about it. The boxed arms come in to the shop, the serial number is compared to the serial number on the box and the invoice, the box is taped shut and stays that way until the customer takes possession.

RonDeer10mm
October 1, 2010, 08:11 PM
I totally agree with TexasGunbie

Sam1911
October 1, 2010, 08:13 PM
Ok. Ron, glad you came back. Is this a complete hypothetical situation? (i.e.: "Could it ever happen that...?") Or are you asking because you think your dealer might have done it?

longdayjake
October 1, 2010, 08:22 PM
If a dealer does this then he is actually guilty of fraud. To represent something as new, and sell it as new, knowing that that is a false representation and you rely on that representation then you have a cause of action against him. Sure there are a few more elements you would have to prove, but if it happens then the dealer is committing a crime.

rromeo
October 2, 2010, 03:27 PM
There's a dealer in CA that also has a range on site. They'll will let YOU shoot it during the waiting period.

millertyme
October 2, 2010, 03:46 PM
What is the status of the firearm during the waiting period? Have you paid for it and have receipt for the firearm? If he still owns it, then it's his. It doesn't seem like something you'd want to do to your customers since you'd almost certainly ruin yourself. If it is your gun, i.e. you paid for it and you have receipt saying so and the firearm is being held in trust during the waiting period, his use of the firearm would be trespass to chattel as far as property laws are concerned. If he's still the owner of the firearm, which it seems like he is since you can't own the firearm until after the waiting period. If he tries to deliver the firearm after having shot it while it was in trust then he's changed the object of the contract and you should be able to get your money back or a different gun under conversion since the gun you are being delivered is not the same gun as was bargained for. Basically, no, he can't shoot YOUR gun if that was what was bargained for. You bargained for a new XYZ Shooter of particular serial number and paid for a new XYZ Shooter of a particular serial number at a particular price, he agreed to sell you a new XYZ Shooter of the same particular serial number at the same particular price, but delivered a gently used XYZ Shooter. Although the serial number is the same and it is physically the same gun, the gun delivered is different in character to the one bargained for. So, no contract.

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