Preacherman I need your help!


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Gordon
December 15, 2003, 02:53 AM
And everybody else's too! I have an older (66) friend who I fool with guns with for the last 10 years. He is a single , affluent lonely man who was a ex alcholic who attends meetings everyday. I have been kind to him and have put most of his pieces in my safes as he only wanted to keep a shotgun,an M-1 and a pistol at his home and did want to be robbed .He doesn't reallly know how to care for a fiream(we clean them in my gun room ect, and I occasionly take him to range to instruct in safe shooting) . Well you can see where this is going, I smelled the characteristic ketosis on him the last few times he's been over. I DID confront him and he admitted he 'fell off the wagon' for a couple days a few weeks before. Anyway I think maybe the guy is getting a little senile for a number of reasons and alcohol certainly will not help the situation! He is a fellow churchman, and I spoke to pastor., who told him if he doesn't get into a program quick he won't make it. Question , besides freezing 'his assetts' I have controll of , should I disarm him?I would do it so not to freak him out , and it would be safe. I take responsible gun ownership seriously!!!! I don't want cops involved , nor should they be as there is no hint of threats or overt suicidal tendency. I just want to head off trouble and don't want the good name of the gun besmirched anymore. What do you think I should do? I am his only careing family?:confused: :confused: :confused:

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sm
December 15, 2003, 03:13 AM
If he has a "home group" and/or "sponsor" contact them ASAP!

Get him to a AA meeting ASAP, hook up with sponsor / or get one...he is not to leave meeting without a sponsor--An AA sponsor--It has to be this way. YOU cannot sponsor him, nor can the church body...you can support ...Do Not Enable.

If group, sponsor, suggests a de-tox...do it. If you ride along, take half pints...better to have them arrive ( getting them there, even drunk) , than in DT's. Yes the Re hab/ de tox will agree, or they damn sure should.

Guns are touchy here in THR...but hell yes I have confronted and removed all but one gun,from a couple and that gun was to stay on the man's -wife's hip/ on body 24/7...even lock it in the bathroom when she showered. Husband got his act together-finally- cursed me , but thanked me, been easier to bite a bbl than to get to meetings...he went to meetings.

Freeze Assests ASAP

Its called Tough L**E, and I can be a illegitimite you know what, but I have "experience" and I don't mean as a spectator. I have also seen what happens when one chews on a bbl. and things go bang.

The local center used to be 40 min from me...I've made in under 30 , at odd hours, to drop off someone in need of detox./ medical attention...Act now.

IMNSHO

***
Mods, I'd appreciate a bit of wiggle room on this subject matter, call it "emotional support" please. I'm sure Gordon wouldn't mind deletion once matter is "situated".
Thanks,
Steve

Sisco
December 15, 2003, 08:55 AM
When my Father started showing signs of dementia I was concerned about the same thing.
He had already given me his small gun collection, everything but the 9mm that he kept in the headboard of the bed. As he got worse I started to worry about that one gun so I "borrowed" it using the excuse that it needed a good cleaning (It did). I had it a couple of months then he realized it was gone and started asking me to bring it back.
I returned it but first I reloaded a magazine full of rounds that were inert; no powder and neutralized primers. Mom felt safer and I didn't worry anymore.

Holly76201
December 15, 2003, 09:24 AM
I know you said he admitted "falling off the wagon", but Diabetic Ketoacidosis can smell like alcohol consumption. Has your friend been tested? He may have more than one problem going on.
Just my $.02
Best of luck in dealing with this situation and best of luck to him and recovery.

Preacherman
December 15, 2003, 09:43 AM
All good suggestions so far, particularly SM's. Gordon, if I were in your shoes, I would indeed get hold of all of your friend's guns, if I could. The risks of a tragedy in this situation are very high - particularly if he, half-drunk and in a fit of remorse at falling off the wagon, decides that life isn't worth living, and he's never going to be able to beat this. I've had to do this twice. Once, it worked out, and once my friend had gotten over his bender, he thanked me. The other time, my friend never forgave me for interfering in his life (he never forgave his wife and kids either), and I'm afraid that ended our relationship. Still, I'd do the same thing again if I had to.

One important point: if you take his guns without permission, you're laying yourself open to a charge of theft if he decides to be difficult about it. I'd suggest you do this in conjunction with (and with the knowledge of) his AA sponsor(s), if they're available. If they're not, I'd suggest having a word with any LEO's you know, and explaining the situation to them. If possible, have one of them come with you and "supervise" your "storage" of his firearms. That way, if he wants to be difficult about it later, you have some backup for your story.

Good luck. I'll keep him (and you) in my prayers.

George Hill
December 15, 2003, 11:18 AM
Queue the music!



"The only one... who could ever teach me... was the son of a PREACHERMAN..."

Gordon
December 15, 2003, 12:01 PM
Thank you all, yes he has been drinking he has medical problems but diabetis is not one of them. He admitted to pastor (when he called him and pastor went over his house and found him passed out) he drank weekt before Thanksgiving (first time in 7 years) but I think he is on a run as he did not show for Thanksgiving as he has for 10 years, he is the pianist in church and he hasn't been there in 3 weeks, hes missed 3 lunch dates I've made with him.I don't know who his AA sponsor of 15 years is but I'll find out. My CHP son knows him and because I covered my legal bases with noterized documents on his guns from the outset there will be no legal problems. Heres what I think I'll do:I'll get his M-1 and 870 over for cleaning as I'll find some 'freckles' and tell him to keep his stainless 40-06 Smith, but bring it over for cleaning. I'll meanwhile buy another 40-06 Smith Firing pin and shorten it down . I'll strip gun and fiddle putting it back together until he has to take one of his frequent leaks. Switch in a short firing pin and tell him to leave the blued stuff for the winter wet season in my dehumidified safe. Hows that sound for a game plan?:evil:

Marko Kloos
December 15, 2003, 01:04 PM
I'll meanwhile buy another 40-06 Smith Firing pin and shorten it down .

Suppose he has to use the piece in self-defense, and promptly gets killed because his gun doesn't go "bang"?

Suppose he takes the 4006 out to pop some cans, and realizes that you've rendered his gun inoperable?

Just making sure you consider all the possible outcomes of that scenario.

sm
December 15, 2003, 01:05 PM
Gordon,

IMO, I would not be anything but straight up , and "brutally honest".
I would find out where he goes to meetings, and with your CHP son ( or any other LEO) the pastor , go to the meeting place and tell them your "Concerns". these members will know whom his sponsor (s) are...worst case scenerio and he doesn't have one /cannot be reached, matters can be handled. "Intervention" comes to mind.

Holly made a good insightful thought...MY main concern was finding out any medical problems, with or without booze.

I'm not comfortable with messing with firing pins and misleading with reasons why I want the guns persay.

Drunks are the worlds best maniplulators, liars, con-artists...sorry you cannot beat him at his own game. He does not need that becasue he knows the game better than you.

Drunks have a self DX disease, they have to Dx it...others may suspect, have medical proof...etc., only when the person gets out of denial, and accepts the disease they have can anything happen in a positive manner. Meaning - usually-they have to hit a bottom. You, me ,nobody , not even the pastor can say he is an alcoholic--He is the only one that can. His sobriety is his his anon...now if he chooses to share that, that is his choice.

A person can express a "concern" about another's behavior when drinking, tehy cannot say so and so is a alchololic.

NOPE straight up, brutal honesty, "I'm concerned about your drinking, I'm concerned about your safety and the firearms, hand them over now. He may get angry, he may curse and strike you ( denial), but he needs the cold hard facts.

Sneaking and changing firing pins is enabling him, and will only give him something else to " by golly I'll show that so and so...I'll get drunk at him".

If you care about this person get brutally honest. Read the AA Big Book, go to an Al Anon meeting . Alcoholics have a problem with living life on life terms and drink to cope. Al Anon's have the Drunk as a crutch instead, so they go because they are "concerned" about a person's behavior, and that concern is what makes life unmanageable for them.

You can't beat a con at his own game...part of the con his simply giving the mark the impression you can.

Good Luck, Gordon

Thanks mods for keeping thread open.

Gordon
December 15, 2003, 09:08 PM
SM: Sir I defer to your knowledge and will play it EXACTLY as you described. I can tell you be the man here in this situation, youve definetly seen the elephant and know how to handle him! The guy is old , I am his only sort of family, I think he'll understand , and if he don't I HAVE to do the right thing. Thank you again. Now say a prayer for me (and him) preacherman!
:)

sm
December 15, 2003, 09:46 PM
Gordon,
:o No sir it is you and the friend in need that I say thank you to.

Be a friend, Don't Enable, Be Brutally Honest. Keeping your Integrity no matter how it plays is what he needs to see and remember. Oh, candy bars ( check with his med condition) why? IIRC a Beer has like 2 Tbs of surgar and a mixed drink 3 ( I'm winging it here) the deal is the body is accustomed to that much surgar from alcohol, take the alcohol away and the body craves surgar. :) If meds condition are OK candy bars and real cokes...non of this pathethic water-downed ,lite, reduced fat crap...the real thing :D ( it's a matter of principle) Once he gets settled then worry about the surgar,and spare tire.

Ice cubes, water, mixers just water down booze...umbrella's, what idiot thought of that idea to make less room for the booze...principle man, principle. Coke straight up,no ice,out of the bottle :)

Reese's, York Peppermint Patties, Snickers...10 packs, bite size...like beer/Scotch/ Tennessee sipping whiskey, ain't no bad candy...just some better than others...oh cookies...gotta have cookies...chocolate chip , lots of chocolate chip work...;)

To keep it -give it away...

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