Remington Golden Saber BJHP?


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Mike J
October 1, 2010, 11:58 PM
I ran across a deal today on Remington Golden Saber Bonded JHP ammunition. I bought a couple of boxes of it in .40 caliber 165 grain. Since getting home I have dug around looking for tests on Google. I'm just curious about this ammunition. I know some of you watch the law enforcement tests as well as do your own testing. Would anyone have any information about this round?

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thecannonator
October 2, 2010, 02:21 AM
i did some research on this round because i just purchased them so far i read it has the most energy into target compared to speer gold dot and federal hydra shock of the same grain maybe there is a more powerful round but as to what i see its the best for SD.

bds
October 2, 2010, 05:40 AM
I used to swear by HydraShok in 9mm/45ACP. But when FBI did their comparative testing and chose the Golden Saber, I also switched, especially for 40S&W.

I do prefer the 165 gr in 40S&W over the 180 gr JHP.

As with any factory JHP, you should range test to see where the Point of Impact (POI) varies from Point of Aim (POA) as hotter JHP rounds usually hit a bit higher than your cheaper factory FMJ target ammo like Winchester White Box, CCI Blazer, Remington UMC, etc.

If you reload, you can buy Golden Saber bullets in bulk (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=1601160321).

PAPACHUCK
October 2, 2010, 07:31 AM
I sell LE supplies and this is my most popular type of HP's sold.

bds
October 2, 2010, 08:23 AM
Would anyone have any information about this round?
Mike J, it took a little digging but here they are:

Based on several discussions that already took place on various THR threads, I believe the 165 gr Golden Saber JHP is an effective round shot from standard length barrels (G22/G23) and even short barrels (G27). Its muzzle and terminal energy is good with verified reliable expansion, penetration and mass retention, especially through heavy clothing (which is more "real world" IMO). Like the 124/125 gr 9mm JHP, I consider 165 gr 40S&W good all-purpose defensive round. There are compelling arguments for the heavier 180 gr 40S&W for deeper penetration in this day of expanding waistlines of heavier Americans and I am "growing" to believe that argument too, but for now I train to shoot around the COM/chest/heart/pericardial sac area and believe 165 gr JHP to be sufficient. Comparison chart: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.40_S%26W)
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=128434&stc=1&d=1286020364

Personal Defense Ammunition Test Data/.40 S&W Remington 165gr Golden Saber JHP (Glock 27). (http://www.firearmstactical.com/test_data/40sw/rem40-165gs-g27.htm)


Personal Defense Ammunition Terminal Performance Test Data (halfway down the article). (http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs31.htm)


http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs29.htm (5th article down)

Reporting of Test Data
.40 S&W Remington 165gr Golden Saber JHP
Test Date: 9/14/99
Test Weapon: Glock 23, 4.0" bbl

Bare Gelatin vs Denim Covered Gelatin
Gelatin Calibration: 8.3cm @ 592 fps Gelatin Calibration: 8.4cm @ 601 fps

1 1038 15.00" .66 1 1023 15.25" .65
2 1015 14.75" .64 2 1006 13.75" .67
3 1018 14.50" .65 3 1029 14.00" .66
4 1018 15.00" .63 4 1023 14.75" .65
5 1037 14.50" .64 5 1016 14.00" .66
Avg. 1025 14.75" .65 Avg. 1019 14.35" .66

Whereas readers of TACTICAL BRIEFS will receive limited, but useful, information. The following rating system will be used to report ammunition test results on our web site:

Unsatisfactory - average bullet penetration is less than 9-inches.
Marginal - average bullet penetration is between 9- and 12- inches.
Optimal - average bullet penetration is between 12- and 16-inches.
Satisfactory - average bullet penetration is greater than 16-inches.

.40 S&W Remington 165gr Golden Saber JHP
Test Weapon: Glock 23

Bare Gelatin / Denim Covered Gelatin
10 rd Avg. Velocity: 1022 fps
Terminal Performance Optimal / Optimal

Our Recommendations for Selecting Personal Defense Ammunition
IWBA recommends using ammunition that demonstrates the following terminal performance:

Bare Gelatin - Average bullet penetration between 12- and 14-inches.
Denim Covered Gelatin - Average bullet penetration between 13- and 16-inches.

A JHP bullet that demonstrates this level of penetration performance will also demonstrate reliable expansion performance.

Mike J
October 2, 2010, 09:12 AM
Thanks bds I hadn't found that one. I had found some tests of the older golden saber rounds & it was concerning me that there were issues in some of them with the jacket separating. These rounds are bonded so I guess they probably take care of that. Those penetration & expansion numbers seem good. It had been a long time since I found any quality JHP ammunition for less than a dollar a round without ordering it online. This was $29.99 for a box of 50. It seemed like too good a deal to pass up.

bds
October 2, 2010, 10:00 AM
That's a good price, for a box of 50. Heck, a year ago, we were paying that much for factory FMJ. :eek:

Giterboosted
January 1, 2011, 02:06 AM
Sorry to resurrect a dead thread, but i usually carry the golden saber and was considering the bonded version but am slightly unclear on the major differences....

Mike J
January 1, 2011, 12:44 PM
A bullet being bonded means that the copper jacket is bonded to the lead core of the bullet. This prevents the jacket from separating from the core of the bullet. It also helps the bullet retain its weight & helps control expansion.

fastbolt
January 1, 2011, 04:17 PM
Remington Bonded Golden Sabre 180gr load fired into a gel block covered by 4-layers of denim.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/fastbolt/GSB40SWB180top.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/fastbolt/GSB40SWB180grBonded-1.jpg


Remington standard Golden Sabre (non-bonded) fired under the same conditions.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/fastbolt/GS40SWB180top.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/fastbolt/GS40SWB180grnon-Bonded-1.jpg

During the hosted Rem gel event the LE rep said the bonded version of the GS was made by inserting a flux compound into the jacket before the lead ingot was inserted, and that depending on the caliber/bullet weight the shape & depth of the nose cavity might be different in the bonded version, as well.

FWIW, a standard non-bonded 165gr GS load fired under the same conditions.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/fastbolt/RemGS40SWAbullettop.jpg

I've been carrying issued Golden Sabre (non-bonded) for the last few years in all 3 major calibers (9mm/124gr +P, .40 S&W/180gr & .45 ACP/230gr), after having previously been issued W-W T-Series. Feeds & functions fine in all my pistols.

I'm not concerned about not using the bonded version. As odd as it might seem, I've often "heard" more debate and concern about non-bonded versus bonded loads among the online firearm forums than among LE users when it comes to ammunition. Suit yourself.

hapidogbreath
January 2, 2011, 11:43 AM
If it fragments doesn't that mean more wound channel????

fastbolt
January 2, 2011, 01:57 PM
The 165gr GSBJ round didn't fragment so much as simply shed its jacket. That doesn't mean the round would necessarily have proven ineffective, though. The lead core just didn't expand very much.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/fastbolt/RemGS40SWAblockedited.jpg

searcher6
February 10, 2011, 06:47 PM
Anybody know where to get the bonded Golden Saber bullets for reloading handgun bullets (10mm/.40 caliber)?

CZ57
February 10, 2011, 07:44 PM
Anybody know where to get the bonded Golden Saber bullets for reloading handgun bullets (10mm/.40 caliber)?

Graf & Sons and Midway both sell Golden Sabers in bulk. They are not the bonded version though.;)

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