orange guns for security guards


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daniel (australia)
December 15, 2003, 07:23 AM
Here in the land of Oz we have had rather a spate of shootings lately, despite ever-tightening restrictions on the lawful ownership of firearms. It seems these cunning bad guys are obtaining their guns illegally! With a few cases of guns being stolen from security guards the latest proposal is to require the guards to have their guns "indelibly painted" in a bright orange colour. Apparently that would make them undesireable to the bad guys

Now I can think of a number of reasons why this is doomed to failure, principal among them the difficulty of making a truly "indelible" coating, and the ease of simply spraying it matt black. I'm also concerned about making guns look like toys. The claim is however that this is done in the US:

http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,8147324%255E2,00.html

Does anyone have any informed comment?

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mete
December 15, 2003, 07:50 AM
In the Big Apple ( NY City ) Toy guns must be made of brightly colored plastic . In the real world of course what they have found is that some paint toy guns so they look like real ones , and some paint real guns to look like toy guns . You should be able to do a newspaper search for articles abou this. As you obviously know ,liberals do not deal with logic nor do they face reality.

Zach S
December 15, 2003, 09:09 AM
The claim is however that this is done in the US
In my 22 years here in the states, I've never seen an LEO, security gaurd, armed courier, or anyone over the age of eight years old, with an orange sidearm. I have, however, heard of a PD (here in NC I think) using orange stocks and foregrips on designated bean-bag (or maybe some other kind of less-likely leathal ammo) shotguns to keep them from getting mixed up with those loaded with buckshot.

If painting the gun orange to make it look like a toy and then giving it to a security gaurd is a deterrant for the BGs stealing them, whats the point of of having armed security? What would happen to the GG whos at the business end of an oragne gun that he or she thinks is a toy? Its not really my place to say this, but why are these gaurds carrying anyway? It would seem to me their situation awareness, well, kinda sucks.

Why not four-man teams? two men to carry the cash, of course armed with the .38s that have a habit of getting stolen, and two men to cover the others, armed with M60s. IMO, that would be a better detterant.

George Hill
December 15, 2003, 11:29 AM
Zach is right.
Here a Red or Orange gun is the designated "Less Than Lethal" gun.
Blue or Red is the designated training.

That leaves silver (stainless or nickle) or polished blue for the Veterans.
Black for the Rookies.
And "Tactical Green" for the High Speed - Low Drag types.
Unless you are "Real Tactical" and then you might use a gun that is grey or gray depending upon your local standards.
If you are very stylish and have a Charles Daly DDA, you might have one that has a Yellow or Purple or a dark blue frame - and that just means you are a Geek with Guns.
If you have other colors or more than one color - that means your an IPSC guy.


Got it?

Amish_Bill
December 15, 2003, 11:50 AM
Yes, in the states bright colors such as Orange, red and Blue indicate training or specialty weapons of some sort.

Reference - http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=12700&title=REMINGTON+870+INTERNATIONAL+ORANGE+STOCK

Standard duty weapons are NEVER issued like that.

Unless, of course, you happen to be me..... :neener:
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=54383

MacPelto
December 15, 2003, 04:27 PM
LOL, when I read the thread title, I pictured these security guards running around with big "potato cannon" type thingies that fired oranges!

fiVe
December 15, 2003, 05:17 PM
Me too, Mac.

Let's see--toy guns have to be orange, green, whatever so they won't look like a real gun. Now real guns have to be the same color as toy guns to make them less desirable. With the exception of training purposes, I can't see the logic in any of this (that may be the point since illogical people are obviously thinking this stuff up.)

Then again......are they trying to keep the bad guys guessing?? .....

"Does that guard have a real gun or a toy?"

Kind of like the old commercial: Is it real or is it Memorex? :p

Regards, fiVe

Zundfolge
December 15, 2003, 06:03 PM
So are they going to ban black spraypaint too?

Criminals tend to be lazy, but I doubt they are so lazy they couldn't operate a can of spraypaint :rolleyes:


Based on their success with banning guns, why don't they just ban criminals then the problem will just go away as if by magic :rolleyes:


Okay, one more :rolleyes:

clubsoda22
December 15, 2003, 07:55 PM
isn't this exactly what Mr. Ranum wrote about?

http://www.a-human-right.com/RKBA/looks.html

Standing Wolf
December 15, 2003, 08:53 PM
I think the government of Australia should just check itself into a lunatic asylum en masse.

tiberius
December 15, 2003, 09:08 PM
A lot of products have unique identifying numbers, sometimes called "serial numbers" so at to discourage theft. :)

Weimadog
December 16, 2003, 12:29 AM
fiVe:Then again......are they trying to keep the bad guys guessing?? .....



I could see it now...

"I know what you're thinking, punk. You're thinking, did he grab the real metal gun marked 'Smith & Wesson' and painted orange to confuse you, or the gun marked 'Mattel', which is made of orange plastic and looks the same as the real gun, exept for the fact it is made of plastic? Well to tell you the truth, I forgot myself in all this excitement. But being as this could be a .44 Magnum, made of real metal, and only painted orange to confuse you, the most powerful handgun in the world and could blow your head clean off, if indeed it is the real gun and not the plastic toy, you've got to ask yourself a question: do I feel lucky? Well do ya, punk? "

:scrutiny:

Weimadog

http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Movie/1967/dirtyharrymagnum44.jpg

Amegatek
December 16, 2003, 01:07 AM
"I know what you're thinking, punk. You're thinking, did he grab the real metal gun marked 'Smith & Wesson' and painted orange to confuse you, or the gun marked 'Mattel', which is made of orange plastic and looks the same as the real gun, exept for the fact it is made of plastic? Well to tell you the truth, I forgot myself in all this excitement. But being as this could be a .44 Magnum, made of real metal, and only painted orange to confuse you, the most powerful handgun in the world and could blow your head clean off, if indeed it is the real gun and not the plastic toy, you've got to ask yourself a question: do I feel lucky? Well do ya, punk? "

LOL :D

7.62FullMetalJacket
December 16, 2003, 02:44 AM
If they have banned all handguns, why do security guards need them? :rolleyes:

I know, they should federalize the security guards, give them a uniform and federal benefits, and they can annoy people at airports :uhoh:

BluesBear
December 16, 2003, 07:39 AM
Would this work?
http://www.mrarms.com/images/gallery2_r4_c2.gif
Or this?
http://www.mrarms.com/images/gallery2_r6_c10.gif
Or any combinations of these?
http://www.mrarms.com/images/firearm-coating-color-examp.jpg

Roadkill Coyote
December 16, 2003, 08:07 AM
It would appear to me that the only orange colored solution this problem is muzzle flashes.

But seriously, if the Police Minister is claiming that security guards carrying orange guns are the norm here in the U.S., then perhaps he should provide a source for his information (and a UA might not be a bad idea either). :rolleyes:

iapetus
December 16, 2003, 08:46 AM
A few years ago (back at university), I went on fancy-dress pup-crawl, with a "gangster" theme.

We were specifically warned not to take any replica or toy guns, in case the police thought we were real gangsters.

Someone suggested "obvious" toys (like bright orange water-pistols). but apparently the criminals round there had taken to painting their guns bright colours so that if they were spotted, people would think they were just toys and not call the cops.

(What guns? Oh, you mean those guns, the ones that noone is allowed to own any more)

KMKeller
December 16, 2003, 10:23 AM
Of course this is just a prelude to illegalizing active weapons and subsequently providing security guards non-lethal, brightly colored "practice" guns so that the crooks only think they're armed...

armoredman
December 16, 2003, 10:26 AM
The only orange stuff I have seen is some hi cap Glock magazines made of orange plastic that were designated training mags. These made it onto the salesfloor somewhere, and a bunch were in the last match I shot, a few years ago. That's as close to a funtional orange gun I know of, unless you count the pimped out Glock with all gold plating and synthetic ruby front sight.:eek:

fiVe
December 16, 2003, 10:49 AM
:) :) :)

Weimadog, your post is too funny.....

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