Range etiquette... or lack thereof


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stratman26
October 3, 2010, 10:44 PM
ok, so i was at the rod and gun club this afternoon trying out my new mini 14 and the rest of my collection. everything went good, and had a nice relaxing time, was on a single shooter range, 2 targets set up and was almost done. then these 2 yahoos show up. they put their gear right next to mine, unload ammo, so now we have my ammo, my guns, and equipment mixed in with theirs. I guess they decided i was done shooting and they could take over my range, then just started shooting as im picking up my brass. Not once did they ask if i minded if they shoot along side me or anything, and there was also about 4 empty ranges to the left. I decided to report them after they asked me if they could use the wooden wall separating the ranges as a backstop for their fauchette rounds if they shoot at an angle. that would mean they would be shooting across other ranges. Its probably best that i left rather than having them next door. Had I not been there to tell them that it was not a good idea, they could have shot into my lane while i was downrange.

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Mr.Davis
October 3, 2010, 11:38 PM
If it's a members-only club, I'd definitely report them to the membership committee. Sounds like some serious reeducation is in order, or possibly a ban. I doubt you're the only one to have problems with them.

stratman26
October 3, 2010, 11:54 PM
The club belongs to Ft bliss, but is open to the public. these guys had visitor's passes. They didnt fire into the wall while i was there after i told them not to, but im sure once i drove off it was game on. they called in the RSO on them and asked that they re enforce the range rules when they turn in the badges.

Pete D.
October 4, 2010, 09:38 AM
All of the ranges that I use are unsupervised-open-to-the-public ranges. There are rules posted for proper behavior at all of them.
I am continually surprised (though I should not be at this point) at how many shooters do not read the guidelines.
All of the ranges have a five round maximum load in a semi-auto (6 in a revolver). It is commonplace for shooters to load'em up and dump 13-14-15 rounds. No reason for that.
All shooting points are at 25 yards. It'd be nice if there were some shorter, but there are not. Every trip to shoot there is some one or two or three people who will walk up during a target change and not return to the point, staying out to shoot at 5 - 10 yards. They hold up the whole line. Yesterday, one of these people was giving instruction to two new shooters while the rest of the line waited.
Yes, I could....some one of the other shooters could say something....but y'know.....we shouldn't have to. You'd think that people would realize the lack of regard for others.
Done. Off the soap box.
Pete

griff383
October 4, 2010, 11:56 AM
Sad it only takes a few to ruin it for the group. My father in laws public (unattended) range was closed due to lack of respect for the rules. I guess people were leaving all their garbage scattered and were skipping bullets (on purpose) over the berm. Now its only open once a month if that at totally random times. Really, very sad people cant respect the privelages they are afforded.

easyg
October 4, 2010, 03:21 PM
they put their gear right next to mine, unload ammo, so now we have my ammo, my guns, and equipment mixed in with theirs. I guess they decided i was done shooting and they could take over my range, then just started shooting as im picking up my brass. Not once did they ask if i minded if they shoot along side me or anything, and there was also about 4 empty ranges to the left.
Perhaps you should have just told them to stop when you saw that they were setting up next to you.

Perhaps you could have told them "Stop. You're mixing up your ammo and equipment with mine"
"There are some lanes a little farther down, please use one of those".

Some times all it takes is a word of intervention.

Average Joe
October 4, 2010, 03:34 PM
You have to speak up when people invade your space. Or they will just keep doing it.

SSN Vet
October 4, 2010, 03:48 PM
I count myself fortunate to have a a well run, affordable private range just 4 miles down the rode.

I'll gladly pay my $60 annual dues to avoid using an "open to the public" range.

41magsnub
October 4, 2010, 03:53 PM
I agree with SSN Vet. The $55/yr I pay is some of the best I spend each year. Pistols are fired in individual lanes separated by berms. The only times it gets congested are in the weeks prior to hunting season and when there is an event such as IPDA or the hunter's safety field day. Even then, those are just on the rifle side. I've never gone to the range and not had an open individual pistol bay.

surbat6
October 4, 2010, 09:31 PM
they put their gear right next to mine, unload ammo, so now we have my ammo, my guns, and equipment mixed in with theirs.
Just start picking up their stuff along with yours!
Seriously, you might have mentioned that you weren't finished shooting and would appreciate them moving over. Or you could pull out the HK91, set up to the left and rain hot brass all over them (even if they're at the far right of the range).

EddieNFL
October 4, 2010, 09:37 PM
fauchette rounds

Did you mean "flechette" rounds?

Hanzo581
October 4, 2010, 09:52 PM
The only private club near me seems very difficult to get in, once I do, I will never go back to public ranges.

engineerbrian
October 4, 2010, 10:44 PM
All of the ranges that I use are unsupervised-open-to-the-public ranges

My father in laws public (unattended) range

Damn, i live in the Wash DC suburbs, these ranges would only last a day before they were shut down. Luckily the local public range here is very well supervised and strictly enforces its rules

Starship1st
October 5, 2010, 12:38 AM
People like that make you want to find a secluded place to shoot.:cool:

Justin
October 5, 2010, 01:59 AM
All of the ranges that I use are unsupervised-open-to-the-public ranges. There are rules posted for proper behavior at all of them.
I am continually surprised (though I should not be at this point) at how many shooters do not read the guidelines.
All of the ranges have a five round maximum load in a semi-auto (6 in a revolver). It is commonplace for shooters to load'em up and dump 13-14-15 rounds. No reason for

Yeah, because no one would ever need to practice things like Bill Drills, controlled pairs on multiple targets, or learn how to control the recoil of a handgun during rapid fire. http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=29698&d=1128794076

Between the cretins that go to public ranges and the idiotic rules drafted to keep them under control, I'll gladly pay the annual fees and dues to belong to a private club.

Charleo0192
October 5, 2010, 02:52 PM
Got to say I am lucky, because I go to a place on private property.

lwknight
October 6, 2010, 01:17 AM
All of the ranges have a five round maximum load in a semi-auto (6 in a revolver).

First I have heard of that one. I would not go there if I could not have fun.
Slow shooters usually spend a couple hours on the range. Blasters usually burn up all their ammo in a short time and leave. They also leave plenty of brass for me to pick up.

Last time on the range, I had my son , his wife , and her sister that had never had a gun in her hand in her life. After about an hour and a couple hundred rounds of 22s she was getting pretty good at shooting and comfortable with the pistol.

So to top off the day and make it fun and memorable , we set up a bunch of clays on the bern and when it wa go time , we tried to get as many as possible before someone else got them. Now that was fun. That also makes a better shooter to be shooting under pressure. Not serious pressure but , it makes you think about just getting the target hit instead of sqeeeeeezing the trigger and trying to hit the little dot.

And NO we did not limit the magazines to 5 rounds. That would have ruined the fun.
We were alone on that range and if others had been present we would not have acted that way unless everyone else agreed.

I have my days when I just want to chrono some loads and target the sights and what not but I also like to turn it on and have a blast from time to time.

Vyacheslav
October 6, 2010, 01:09 PM
The rules about loading only a few rounds in a mag and not rapid firing come from people shooting up the target holders and at indoor ranges putting rounds through the ceiling, it's those people that ruin the fun for everyone.

fase3
October 6, 2010, 10:45 PM
Thank the Lord that I moved back to the farm when I retired. I'm on 350 acres with 3000 acres of hardwoods behind me. I have my own 300 yd range with rules that I make up as I go along. Life is good!

ArmedBear
October 6, 2010, 11:40 PM
A Mini-14 is the perfect gun to shoot with obnoxious people next to you. Proper positioning will spit hot brass down their shirts from up to 50 feet away!:D

whalerman
October 7, 2010, 12:18 AM
I always wonder if people do what they do out of ignorance or if its a lack of concern about others. Do they know how stupidly they're behaving? One of the clubs around here has started a new policy of not accepting new members until they are given an introductory "welcome" by staff. They show them the rifle and hangun ranges and tell them about meetings and clean ups etc. But they also mix in a dose of range rules. People want to be considerate but they just don't know what they are doing.

ArmedBear
October 7, 2010, 12:22 AM
I was driving on a narrow mountain road the other day, with some lady driving about 10 MPH in front of me. 25-30 is safe. I wanted to pass, but she had no idea I was there. She apparently didn't see fit to check her rearview mirror, for miles. This was after she just stopped in the middle of the road, in front of my Jeep and another truck, to get out of her car and chat with someone else.

I think people are ignorant, and they have a lack of concern for others. When I was a kid, this was called "thinking you're the only person on the planet" and was the cause of a stern reprimand. It seems some other people in my generation never heard such a reprimand, because some of the worst offenders are my age.

Pete D.
October 7, 2010, 01:21 AM
Don't take this the wrong way since I do agree with the idea but....about Bill drills (a new term for me. ??), controlled pairs and learning to handle recoil in rapid fire.
Is there some reason that those things cannot be done with five rounds in a magazine or at 25 yards?
Pete

esheato
October 7, 2010, 01:48 AM
Encounters with bad guys are not on square ranges at 25 yards....you should train like you intend to fight and sometimes that's up close.

lwknight
October 7, 2010, 06:04 AM
There will always be selfish ,rude , arrogant , me first and totally narcistic people somewhere. Every now and again we get a last laugh.
A few years back , I was traveling north on I-45 out of Houston while a blue norther was coming in and it was raining a little. The temperature had dropped quickly to the low 20s and I knew that bridges would ice over first.

There was a guy tailgating me as I approached a bridge that I guessed to be already coated in black ice. I just clicked my truck into nuetral to coast across when the guy behind got so infuriated at my slowing down that he just had to show mw how its done.
He pulled around with foot in the throttle as he passed and hit the ice. He spun out and bouncd off the guardrails and spun all the way to the other end of the bridge where he stopped facing the wrong way.
I just tooted my horn and waved as I passed by.

BTW: I knew that he was not hurt because he was out of his car kicking it when I passed.

Quadkid
October 7, 2010, 02:18 PM
The range i usually go to has a RSO standing behind everyone and isn't afraid to yell at idiots. Some people don't like it, but I find it comforting.

RX-178
October 7, 2010, 03:41 PM
Definitely been in this situation before stratman26.

That's why I go shooting out in the desert east of town, out on Montana past Red Sands.

Go all the way east on Montana, and turn right when you see a big white sign that says 'Montana Quarry'. It leads to dirt and gravel roads out into the middle of the desert. Plenty of safe, isolated places to shoot out there.

Dookie
October 7, 2010, 04:09 PM
Is there some reason that those things cannot be done with five rounds in a magazine or at 25 yards?
PeteWould you ask a baseball player to only field pop ups and not grounders as well? Would you ask a basketball player to practice with no shoes? Would you ask a football player to practice on a 25 yard fied? If you did would you expect the players to even come close to playing to their potential?

There was a guy tailgating me as I approached a bridge that I guessed to be already coated in black ice. I just clicked my truck into neutral to coast across when the guy behind got so infuriated at my slowing down that he just had to show me how its done.
Just shows that you don't know how to properly drive on ice. Neutral is not the way you do it, you don't have nearly the control if something happens, leave it in gear and let off the gas. But since you are in Texas you may not spend 6 months of the year practicing :D:cuss:

KrisKollins
October 7, 2010, 05:15 PM
I had a guy yell at me because I started shooting before he had his ears on. I pointed at the sign that said "Have ear protection on at all times when in range". Don't yell at me for following the rules.

doc2rn
October 7, 2010, 06:05 PM
^things like that irk me. Some people have blatent disregard for anyone but themselves. Like the lady who was driving oblivious to the world or the man who intentionally sees someone without ears on and starts blasting away. No wonder we are in one of the longest greatest depressions ever. To much me and not enuff we.
As a member of the THR we should look out for each other, like the time I took a sixgun left on a fence back to its owner who drove off with out it. Followed her into town 37 miles away just to give it back in a BK parking lot. She was trying to get the lil one fed and had completely forgotten she had set in down to put the stroller in her mama wagon.
And laughing at someone elses misfortune is not very highroad, Armedbear, in point of fact you could be charged with leaving the scene of an accident, slow drivers are often ticketed here for obstructing the flow of traffic.

Pete D.
October 8, 2010, 01:47 AM
Dookie: With all due respect....about baseball. baskeball. football......those are all what are called False Analogies. Practicing shooting is not a ball sport. They have nothing in common. In any case, each example cited demands LESS skill than normal.
How is shooting at 25 yards more limiting than shooting at three or seven? if you can hit what you are shooting at at seventy five feet, you can probably hit it at ten. If you can shoot five shots accurately rapidly, then, chances are, you can shoot ten or fiffteen well also.
Pete

stratman26
October 9, 2010, 12:23 AM
Definitely been in this situation before stratman26.

That's why I go shooting out in the desert east of town, out on Montana past Red Sands.

Go all the way east on Montana, and turn right when you see a big white sign that says 'Montana Quarry'. It leads to dirt and gravel roads out into the middle of the desert. Plenty of safe, isolated places to shoot out there.
Ill have to check that out... its just that the R&G is about 10 minutes from where i live, and for the most part I like shooting with other people and shooting the bull in between sets. had an enjoyable time this afternoon sharing a lane with a couple other soldiers. There is a good place to shoot in santa teresa also, been wheeling out there.. next time ill bring my guns and pop off a few rounds out there.

benEzra
October 9, 2010, 12:33 PM
Don't take this the wrong way since I do agree with the idea but....about Bill drills (a new term for me. ??), controlled pairs and learning to handle recoil in rapid fire.
Is there some reason that those things cannot be done with five rounds in a magazine or at 25 yards?
If you are practicing defensive shooting, then yes, practice in the 3 to 7 yard range is just as important (perhaps more so) than practicing shooting tiny groups at 25 yards. My local range has target points at 5, 10, 15, and 25 yards on the pistol side. Shooting skillfully and well at 5 yards from the holster is indeed quite different from shooting at 25.

How is shooting at 25 yards more limiting than shooting at three or seven? if you can hit what you are shooting at at seventy five feet, you can probably hit it at ten. If you can shoot five shots accurately rapidly, then, chances are, you can shoot ten or fiffteen well also.
Taking the time to set up a finer sight picture for 25-yard shooting is quite different than picking up the front sight as the gun is pushed out, breaking the shot as your arms lock out, and breaking the second shot as soon as the pistol settles from recoil. If all you ever practice is sedate 25-yard shooting, then you'll know you can shoot slow and sedate single-hole groups at 5 yards, certainly, but what you won't know is how well you'll do under a much more compressed time scale.

Have you ever thought about shooting an IDPA or USPSA match? I think you might enjoy it, and I think you will find that it uses (and hones) a different skill set than 25-yard slowfire does. A lot of us feel that this skillset is also more practical for defensive, as opposed to hunting, handgunnery.

The other thing is, I am all for knowing and abiding by the rules at the range you may happen to be shooting at, but I have never shot at a range that limited you to 5 rounds in the gun (I'm 39 and have been an avid shooter for more than 20 years), and I would refuse to patronize such a range if at all possible.

Shooter31
October 9, 2010, 04:21 PM
These guys will find out what it means by what goes around comes around meaning, they'll get 2 people shooting next to them sometime that are more obnoxious, rude, and unsafe then them. Just like make it idiot proof and they'll build a better idiot.
I can see now why more then ever they have the rules like they do at the public ranges where I'm at!

Pete D.
October 9, 2010, 06:54 PM
Ben Ezra: Thanks for your reply. I agree that if all one did was "sedate" shooting of one hole groups at 25 yards, then there is a whole panoply of skills that are being ignored.
But.....you have misunderstood what I wrote. "twenty-five yard slowfire"?? The references to slow and sedate shooting of one hole groups at 25 yards....well, those are your words not mine and reflect the common mode of thinking about shooting at 25 yards. it must be slowfire. Not so I was referring to practicing at 25 yards in the same way and at the same speed as at five yards. What I said was "if you can hit what you are aiming at at 25 yards, you can probably hit it at ten." There is no good reason to let distance dictate the validity of a rapid fire drill. Shoot the rapid drills at 25. Why not?
Remember that I am writing about groups of shooters who hold up a line because they have decided that they have to do the drills at 15 or 20 feet.
No reason for that if they are competent shooters.
Pete

benEzra
October 10, 2010, 06:30 AM
A 25-yard target is only 1/5 the angular size of the same target at 5 yards, meaning that you will have to slow down some. Also, it's harder to tell on the 25-yard target whether a particular shot would have been an A-zone hit at 5 yards; some A-zone hits at 5 will be off the paper/cardboard at 25, and even if you're on the paper at 25, the difference in angular size may make a good shot look like a bad one.

BTW, in the case you described, if I understand it correctly, I agree that standing forward of the firing line with others waiting to shoot was egregiously out of line; nor am I saying that you can't develop a lot of those skills on a 25-yard-only range, if you work around some of the limitations. I'm just pointing out why I believe practice at closer ranges is indeed useful, and why most handgun ranges are set up to allow both.

jsimmons
October 10, 2010, 11:06 AM
Shooting intentionally over the berm is beyond stupid. People doing that at the range I go to here in San Antonio caused management to prohibit offhand rifle shooting. That ticks me off because I LIKE offhand shooting.

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