Winchester Brass


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blackops
October 6, 2010, 02:09 AM
The more I get into LR and just shooting in general the more anal I have become. I'm constantly looking to shave 1/16 here or there to try an tighten up the groups. I have used Winchester brass, but now when I really inspect the new cases the greatest descrepency I notice is in the flash hole's. I have attached a picture. I don't know if it's obvious, but there are little "gashes" that don't make the hole uniform and I'm starting to wonder if they effect accuracy. I assume a difference in diameter gives a different burn rate. Though it may be marginal, beyond 500yds I would imagine the difference to be substancial. And I am the guy where a little means a lot. What do you guys think? Does Lapua make a difference in consistency, seriously? Can you achieve more reloads out of Lapua? Out of the 100 cases I purchased 30 have these minor non-uniform flash hole's.

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Steve C
October 6, 2010, 02:50 AM
I assume a difference in diameter gives a different burn rate. Though it may be marginal, beyond 500yds I would imagine the difference to be substancial.

A lot of differences make no difference at all so without some actual testing its generally just conjecture. Don't know about rifle but have tested Win Clean cases with the large flash hole vrs PMC brass with the standard flash hold and the velocities where only 1 fps apart and statistically identical.

There are probably lots of things hand loaders do or believe in that does little to actually help other than help their mental attitude. Buy a Lyman flash hole uniformer for $11.99 at Midway and that nagging question will not disturb your concentration when shooting. Money well spent for piece of mind.

blackops
October 6, 2010, 03:06 AM
Buy a Lyman flash hole uniformer for $11.99 at Midway and that nagging question will not disturb your concentration when shooting. Money well spent for piece of mind.

I already have a flash hole uniformer, but when a hole has a burr it already is made larger than a normal flash hole, you can't bring back that extra brass to slightly shrink the hole to uniform size. I maybe be able to make the hole more uniform in dimensions, but certainly not make it perfect as a perfectly cut flash hole.

Not trying to argue at all and this isn't a mental problem for me. I'm simply just wondering if there is factual information to support my question. I'm assuming you won't find these imperfections in Lapua brass, but ultimatley I'm wondering if it is more consistent because of minor imperfections such as these?

ArchAngelCD
October 6, 2010, 05:02 AM
I agree a flash hole uniformer would be a good idea if it's bothering you. I guess any flaw will effect accuracy so why not true up the flash holes.

As for Lapua brass, although it's really good brass it costs a lot more to purchase. I couldn't buy that brass in any quantity, it's just too expansive.
100 new Winchester .308 cases = $41 (Midway USA)
100 new Remington .308 cases = $42 (Midway USA)
100 new Lapua .308 cases = $71 :p (Midway USA)

hometheaterman
October 6, 2010, 11:07 AM
I saw this too when I bought a bag of Winchester brass. I've since quit buying it and gone back to using once fired brass from factory Federal or Hornady ammo as I've never seen this happen on that brass. I just bothered me a little too much even though I never saw a difference at the short ranges I shoot.

Scrapperz
October 6, 2010, 11:22 AM
There are other things that affect accuracy more than that slightly out of round flash hole. I haven't seen any problems after using Winchester Brass. I have tried Winchester, Remington, and Starline with good results shooting 45 colt outta my 460 XVR. I have always tried to keep reloading costs down as much as possible. At the same time I have always said you sacrifice quality for quantity and visa-versa.

crimsoncomet
October 7, 2010, 02:22 AM
I think you will have more accuracy issues with poor loading techniques and poor die quality (over working the brass). I doubt the flash holes will have any ill affect unless you are shooting true true bench rest out a true bench rest gun. But, like you, this would bother me.

As for lapua brass, I have been using it for quite some time. I shoot a 6.5 grendel AR, and for some time lapua was the only brass you could get. You could shoot wolf gold ammo and reload the brass, but that stuff was junk. So i paid 1 dollar a piece for lapua brass. Let me tell you, that is the most perfect out of the box brass I have ever seen. I havent shot it enough to wear it out, but it is nice uniform stuff. I believe it is the most near perfect brass around. As for life, guys on the grendel forum are getting 15+ reloads on there brass. This is with FL sizing and shot through a gas gun. FL sizing really works the brass and a gas gun beats the hell out of it. So, its good stuff. I think you would be happy with it for how well it is made. Remember that i only have experience with the 6.5 grendel lapua, but i would bet it is all just as good.

blackops
October 7, 2010, 03:31 AM
How can you tell when your brass is done or no longer safe to reload?

lwknight
October 7, 2010, 03:49 AM
Blackops,
I would not think that those idiosyncrasies would have much of any affect.

I try to keep my brass in batches. If I see any neck splits ( usually after about 10-12 reloads) I toss the whole lot.
If you really worry about it, you can get a stereoscope to examine it for micro fractures and stress indicators.

In the case of my 30-06 loads I retire them after 10-12 rounds anyway. In case of 38spl , I shoot them till they come apart.

crimsoncomet
October 7, 2010, 12:43 PM
Look for bright spots near the case head and on the neck. This is a sign of work hardening. Basically it is like taking a metal wire and flexing it until it is work hardened and then breaks.

blackops
October 10, 2010, 03:36 PM
lwk/crims,thanks for the advice.

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