2 0'clock, 4 o'clock as referenced by..


December 15, 2003, 04:44 PM
what position on the gun. Center of trigger gaurd, furthermost forward gun componant or what?

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December 15, 2003, 04:47 PM
"o'clock" refers to direction when looking down based on an imaginary line running through your body from head to foot.

Two o'clock is in front of your right hip. Four o'clock is behind your right hip.

I've never heard it referred to for positions on a gun.

Six o'clock is right behind you... as in "watch your six".

December 15, 2003, 04:57 PM
I understand body position as related to the clock dial.

What I'm asking is for instance;

3:00 carry as referenced by the rear sight would be alomost 3:30 at the center of the trigger gaurd with a FBI cant holster.

Does that help? Or is it still clear as mud?;)

December 15, 2003, 05:05 PM
Sorry, have never heard of such a usage, and can't picture it. No help from me! :confused:

AJ Dual
December 15, 2003, 05:09 PM
My best guess is that it's bore-axis, muzzle down, perpendicular to the ground, or belt, when standing is "12:00", unless someone tells me different.

So breech-end of the barrel axis is the pointer on the "hour hand".

Pistols and revolvers all have so many diffefrent shapes, grip angles, and reciever configurations, angles, and sizes, etc. almost all else is meaningless, but they all have a bore, and they're all (hopefully!) straight.

That's my best guess if you want a fixed standard that can be used to describe holster cant, for any kind of pistol or revolver.

Otherwise talking about "o'clock" for holster cant is just an approximation to be used in discussion, because in all other respects, all guns are different.

December 15, 2003, 06:39 PM
Is this what you're asking? If you're carrying at 3:00 (directly on the right hip), what part of the gun is directly at 3:00 (especially with a canted holster)
If I'm reading you right, I think you're getting a little too specific IMHO. In my eyes, 3:00 carry is on your right hip anywhere between about 2:30 and 3:30 that's comfortable for you. If you get too specific, I think you'd find that people who say the carry at 3:00 actually carry at 3:17, 2:49 3:09, etc.


December 15, 2003, 06:58 PM
I find 8:00 to be the most comfortable.

Zach S
December 15, 2003, 07:59 PM
I carry canted IWB between 4:00 and 4:30. What I mean by 4:00-4:30 is thats where my hand needs to draw my sidearm.

December 16, 2003, 06:50 AM
I always thought it was where the cylinder or slide was that indicated the "o'clock" position.

A weapon carried at 3 o'clock woulkd have the slide or cylinder on your right hip, the grips would of course be slightly farther back depending upon the cant of the holster.

December 16, 2003, 08:12 AM
I always judge it by the centerline of the entire gun from top to bottom. I guess it really doesn't matter all that much. Just put it where it fits best.


December 16, 2003, 10:02 AM
Well, in retrospect this question really was a dumb one.

Thanks for your inputs on a stupid topic.

What made me think of this (dumb) question is when I carry my Para P12-45 I have to place it at COM or center of the trigger at 3:00 o'clock. If the gun is just slightly futher back like a couple of inches the butt of the gun looks like a tumor growing out of my right kidney. Maybe it's just the combination of my body build and that particular gun that makes it so critical as to where to carry it.


AZ Husker
December 16, 2003, 10:23 AM
It's a good question, and one I've wondered about myself when folks are discussing their personal "o'clocks". In my Sparks VM2 is my Kobra Carry. Measuring horizontally from the rear sight to the muzzle is six inches. Depending on one's waist size, that could be quite a spread. In my case, the grip safety is at 3:00, but the muzzle is at 4.

December 16, 2003, 04:02 PM
P12, I never for one moment considered your question to be stupid.

And belive me I have seen some stupid questions (on other forums) :rolleyes:

I thought you question was valid as I believe others did as well.
Which is why we all tried to answer you.

None of us were born with this knowledge, we all had to learn sometime.

I dread the day I stop learning for I shall have been dead for at least a week by then.

George Hill
December 16, 2003, 04:12 PM
I carry at 1600 Hours and also at 2200 Hours.

December 16, 2003, 06:13 PM
P12, I hope you don't think I was implying it was a stupid question just because I couldn't picture what you were asking at first.

I'd just never thought about it that way. I always pictured the center of the holster being the o'clock point.

I thought you were trying to find another way to describe degrees of cant.

I'm fairly large around the middle, so when I say "4 o'clock" it covers lots of territory. I'd never needed to consider precision.

That's my excuse, and I'm sticking to it! :D

December 16, 2003, 07:32 PM
I've not come across an official definition yet. When I "carry at 10 O'Clock" this is based on where my hand goes to grab. It attaches to the belt closer to 2130. But I'd still say 10.

My belt loops on various pants vary a lot. I make due with what I've got to work with even though I do have a preferred spot. More important to me than obtaining an exact "O'Clock" position is center of balance is and it's snugness. In other words above the belt, on the belt, or below the belt. Loose, tight, or just right.

December 16, 2003, 07:51 PM
I think that's kinda what I was trying to say. 3:00 is wherever it works on my right hip. 4:00 is wherever it works behind my right hip.


December 16, 2003, 08:57 PM
Let's see... Your front is zone four, back is zone six, and your sides are five and seven, correct? Oh, wait, sorry, the fencer in me is poking through (pun intended).

December 16, 2003, 09:35 PM
No, I didn't think that. And I did do a poor job of explaining the question. (see reason below)

It's just after I started reading the responses I realized that if I had just thought about it I would have figured out on my own that the exact location is not all that relevent and would be different for different body builds. (when we are talking about a couple of inches)

I usually over-analyze most things. For my build (or shall I say un-build) a heavy gun like the P12 has to be carried at 3 o'clock or it will be around my ankles in short order. You see I never had much arse and have less now. My waist is an exact 35" and my butt may be 37". So for me a couple of inches backwards or forwards makes for some noticable lumps! and some drastic changes in comfort level. I hate a sagging gun. It almost feels like it will throw my hip joint out.

I had a ranger belt made by a saddlery dude in Rioduso NM while on vacation this summer. (that's why I know my exact waist size--at least with one shirt tucked in) He made it out of saddle leather and it carries the weight very well. (at 3 o'clock) but I can only use a paddle with that belt. Paddles seem to stick out more than I like. So my normal rig is a Tripple K with a another stiff leather belt but the fit isn't as good. Works good at 3 o'clock.

Just ant' got nuf arse to hold it up any wers lse.

This was a hip shot question that I posted while at work. We're going through some changes at work and my mind is not functioning in it's normal fashion. (another damn buy-out) Otherwise we would have never seen this thread.

Although, as always good responses. That's something I always expected on TFL and now always look forward to here at THR. Good sound input.

December 16, 2003, 10:16 PM
You've got all you need pretty well .... but a quick 2 cents ......

My ''clock position'' is ONLY relative to the grip .. cant matters not.

It is where my hand will go to draw!:p :)

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