[The Mighty Beagle]

I have been doing some soul-searching and realized that I would rather not rely on my Ruger P94 for self-defense/concealed carry purposes. I like the gun quite a bit as it's totally reliable and fairly accurate ... but I just feel like I need a bigger bullet.

And I just discovered that I can get either S&W model for about $500 NIB. I'm not sure how long the 4506 will last, and am tempted to get one while I still can since they are no longer made. Incidentally, I know there have been some police surplus 4506's, but my sources are currently out of them.

So which would you choose?
The 4506 I had (a police surplus gun I foolishly traded off and then regretted) was totally reliable even with junk ammo and got around 4" groups, which I didn't mind. However, I had a Colt which was also reliable and would get 2.5" groups, so I traded the gun off. Later, of course, I became paranoid about CC'ing single-action autos and sold the Colt.

Anyway, the 4506 was a monster, which I liked in some ways. It did have a clubby feel to it though; I was never entirely satisfied with the grip shape or ergonomics.

Bottom line, I like .45 ACP and its the only DA auto I'll consider due to price and availability. Should I jump on it since its hard to get these days?

On the other hand, I've never had a 4006. I had a 5906, which I liked very much except for the heavy SA trigger. With Hogues it fit my hand much better than the .45 ... but .40? I never cared for the cartridge. I fired a friend's DAO Smith .40 and hated the jarring snappiness of the recoil. Also, is .40 really equivelent in terms of stopping power?

So, what do you guys think? For purposes of this discussion, let's say these are my only two choices ...

[10-Ring]

Not being a fan of the 40 S&W, I'd go w/ the 4506. I had one & it was a very reliable & fairly accurate pistol. I sold it to sponsor a diff't deal.

[Spackler]

I like the .40S&W, but given the choice, I'd buy the 4506. I know you said that these were the only two choices, but if you can find a 4566, you might check that out. It's a .45 that's the same size as the 4006. Might be a little easier to carry.

[The Mighty Beagle]

Actually, I'm glad you mentioned the 4566, I can get one for about $40 less but just didn't know what it was. Isn't it DAO?

Lousy S&W model numbers ...

[10-Ring]

Try this link: http://www.smith-wessonforum.com/cgi-bin/sandwcgi/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro

[Spackler]

I think the 4566 is the shorter version of the 4506, in traditional double-action. I believe the DAO would be 4556. Of course now they are all -TSW, with that goofy light rail on the dust cover. I prefer the older, non-TSW versions. As far as I know, they haven't produced the 4506 in a TSW version, so you should be safe with that one.

[Blueduck]

Got both of them and neither is for sale, which should tell you something ;)

For a range or home protection guns I favor the 4506 due to better accuracy and bigger bullet since I'm putting up with that much weight anyway. As much as I like both guns, for every day, 12 hours a day concealed carry I really could not reccomend either. The 4006 is not really all that big but it's just a bit heavy for that role IMHO. If forced to choose I'd go with the 4006 for a CCW of the two.

4566 is as Spackler noted is just a slightly shorter version of the 4506....put that in the mix and it's what I'd choose of the three. Combines the best of both the 4506 and the 4006.

P.S. One hint you might already know. You can get rounded backstrap grips for both guns which many people find much more comfortable than the normally stock straight gips.

[Min]

I would look at the 10mm round. S&W makes the 1006 and 1076 for it. Very powerful cartridge. Otherwise I would go with the .45 ACP.

[jc2]

I would look at the 10mm round. S&W makes the 1006 and 1076 for it. Very powerful cartridge.
S&W hasn't made a 1076 (frame-mounted decocker) or any other 10mm for many, many years.

I have a 4506, and I wouldn't part with--totally reliable and very accuratee (my particular pistol, anyway). It is a real "horse pistol" however (big). I've been tempted to go the 4566 route (a traditional DA), but I really like a five-inch barrel for a .45.

[Min]

Sorry I meant used if you can find one.

[slick slidestop]

I had a 4006 for many years and liked the gun except the weight was too much for daily concealed carry (IWB).

It also wasn't the most accurate gun I have ever owned either.

If I had to choose between those 2 guns ONLY, then I would chose the 4506.

[Poohgyrr]

The 4566 is Smith's version of the Commander. For DAO, the 4586 is the one. I was looking at the 4566 a few years ago, but got a deal on a P220...

[agtman]

The 45XX-series guns I've shot have all been very accurate and reliable. Their accuracy was in fact much, much better than several 4006s I've fired over the years.

The 4566 is probably the ideal size, a "Commander"-equivalent, having a 4.25" barrel just like the 1076 or 1066 in 10mm. Both series - the 45XXs and the 10XXs - are examples of how S&W really got it "right" with their large framed 3rd Generation autoloaders.

Nonetheless, I wouldn't shrink from an excellent condition or LNIB 4506 if that's what you want. Stainless steel with a 5" barrel and 8+1 capacity, it cuts a distinctly different path among the ubiquitous .45 autos. Probably the best part is that a 4506 doesn't look like every other swingin' Jack's 1911-clone.

As the 9mm is waining in LE circles, these guns have become popular again, like w/ LAPD, where the .45 auto is allowed and a DA/SA authorized.

HTH. :)

[Dave Williams]

Because that's what Vic Mackey carries :-)

Dave

[Dave Williams]

sorry double tap

[The Mighty Beagle]

Thanks so much, guys, exactly the kind of feedback I wanted. Sounds like the .45xx platform is really what I want. I doubt though that the 4506 will still be there when I finally get all our W2's in though, so I'll probably go with the 4566.

Punctuating my decision against carrying my 9mm, there was an article in the latest Handguns mag. about stopping failures, and the guy was very enamored of .40 but expecially .45, despite recounting a tale wherein a cop-killer soaked up 25 .45 ACP rounds before collapsing. Maybe I need to carry my Desert Eagle .50?

Anyway, the fact that Vic Mackey carries one is what brought the 4506 back onto my radar. Hopefully every time I whip it out I'll hear that cool Shield theme music and experience an exciting plot twist ...

[agtman]

Vic's 4506.


Well, here's one reality-based reason why Vic's got a 4506: because a huge number of LAPD patrol and command officers are carrying them since receiving approval for a .45 autoloader following the North Hollywood shootout.

By the way, I've read that the 4506s are self-purchased by LAPD officers - which tells you a lot about their confidence level with respect to caliber choice, preferring a big stainless 8+1 .45 they have to buy over the Dept-bought 9mm Berettas. :rolleyes:

[kalibear45]

4506

[jc2]

because a huge number of LAPD patrol and command officers are carrying them since receiving approval for a .45 autoloader following the North Hollywood shootout.
This makes absolutely no sense. The .45 ACP offers no advantage at all over the 9x19 against hard (armoured) targets. In fact, with the right ammunition (FMJ or steel core FMJ), the 9x19 would have a considerable advantage over the .45 ACP against hard targets. BTW, I'm pretty sure the S&W .45 ACP was approved for optional carry long before the "North Hollywood Shootout"--not as a result of it. I'm not really sure how good your information is.

[Blueduck]

Can't vouch for it but I've heard the same tale as agtman regarding the approval of the 4506 due to the North Hollywood shootout.

It actually does make perfect since-Cops carrying 9mm's "We want 45's!"-request denied. Week later big shootout on news: "The bad guys are wearing bodyarmor and carrying AK's! we are outgunned, we need 45's!" Request granted:scrutiny:

Just how the world works :(

[agtman]

"That makes absolutely no sense."


Sure it does. It's called "voting with your feet." The movement in LE is away from the 9mm and to the .40S&W and .45acp, and, for some units, to the 10mm Auto.

"...the 9x19 against hard (amoured) targets."

While some BGs do wear body armor, most don't, so the issue of vest penetration is a matter of percentages. The North Hollywood bank-robbin' BGs were known, before the encounter, to wear body armor and to be heavily armed. Little good that did for all the cops shooting at them with 9mm Berettas. :rolleyes:

"I'm pretty sure the S&W .45 ACP was approved for optional carry long before the 'North Hollywood Shootout'--not as a result of it."

That's not my info. Some very few Command officers or SWAT personnel may have had limited approval to carry the Smith 4506 prior to the N.H. shootout. But it was only after the event that general patrol officers received formal authorization to carry the approved S&W .45 model - and then only upon qualification with it. Plus they have to buy it themselves (but thru the Dept, IIRC).

[jc2]

No, agtman, it makes no sense (unless, of course, you have no idea why you're voting). When it comes to effectiveness against hard targets, you are saying they "voted with their feet" for a less effective round (again, against hard targets). To say the are fleeing the 9x19 because of North Hollywood (involving armoured targets) makes no sense because the 9x19 offers superior penetration of hard targets.

If they did abandon the 9x19 due to N. Hollywood, it was not based on reasons or performance--"bandwagon" effect maybe but not because the .45 ACP offers superior performance against hard targets.

[agtman]

So what you're saying is the 9x19 "saved the day" at the N.H. shootout? :scrutiny:

If that were even remotely true, why would large numbers of LAPD rank & file cops be flocking to the Smith 45acp? Why not just stick with that little .355 bullet - the one with the red cape, big 'S' on it chest and "superior" vest-penetrating abilities? :rolleyes:

Also, aside from the vest-penetration issue, please explain why the .45acp is a "less effective round" than the 9mm.

[jc2]

So what you're saying is the 9x19 "saved the day" at the N.H. shootout?
No, agtman, absolutely not! :banghead:

What I am saying is the 9x19 handgun was not a factor in what happened in North Hollywood. A .45 ACP handgun would not have done any better. North Hollywood was weapon (handgun) failure--not a calibre failure. :banghead:

The lesson that should have been learned from N. Hollywood is patrol officers need access to rifles.

If anybody is switched to .45 ACPs because of N. Hollywood, they switched based on ignorance: (1) under the circumstances of N. Hollywood, the .45 ACP would not have performed any better than the 9x19, and (2) given the right ammuntion (a nice steel core FMJ), the 9x19 would have been a better choice than the .45 ACP. To try to make a case against the 9x19 based on N. Hollywood totally ignores the facts.

FWIW, the LAPD had a long history with the .45 ACP before N. Hollywood. LE's migration away from the 9x19 strarted well before N. Hollywood (due to largely to poor tactics, and again, the wrong weapons in Miami some ten years previously).

[agtman]

Yeah, I agree LAPD officers armed w/ rifles would have been the better scenario at N.H.

Okay, jc2, let's try it this way. If you go back to my post where I referred to "Vic's 4506" and N.H., you'll see I never said LAPD cops switched to the .45 only because of N.H. I just said large numbers of LAPD began carrying them following the N.H. incident, because that's when, chronologically, they received official approval to do so. I was pointing out to Beagle that the weapon-choice of the t.v. character, "Vic," had some basis in reality because he's supposed to be an LA cop in present time.

But if you want to believe that there's no cause-and-effect - psychological or otherwise - between the N.H. incident and the apparent choice by a lot of LAPD rank-and-file cops to switch to carrying 45 Smiths (yeah, admittedly a number still carry Berettas), feel free. :)

[Kahr carrier]

Either one would be a good choice.:)

[jc2]

But if you want to believe that there's no cause-and-effect - psychological or otherwise - between the N.H. incident and the apparent choice by a lot of LAPD rank-and-file cops to switch to carrying 45 Smiths (yeah, admittedly a number still carry Berettas), feel free.
What I said if there was a "cause and effect" between N. Hollywood and some LAPD officers switching to .45s because the 9x19 "failed," it didn't make any sense (logically or ballistically). The fact the officers were armed with 9x19 Berettas had absolutely nothing to do with problems experienced by LAPD during N. Hollywood. It was only when the SWAT teams were deployed with rifles (not their 1911 handguns) was the problem resolved.

If some officers took advantage of a policy change and switched to .45s after N. Hollywood, is one thing, To imply (or maybe lead others to believe) that officers switched to the .45 because 9x19 "failed" during N. Hollywood is wrong.