Bullet making shooting buddy


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P95Carry
December 15, 2003, 06:54 PM
Just thought you other reloaders might be interested in seeing a few examples of a buddy of mine's bullet making work. He has been working hard over last coupla years to build a business making swaged bullets ... and has made and tested many very innovative designs. He successfully often uses .22lr cases as jackets.

Currently - he makes just .224's and .452's.

He's the sorta guy that if you had an idea and wanted it tried out ..... he'd probably come up with something useful for you. So ..... if anyone interested go peek at his site .... http://www.thor-bullets.com - I do hope he can succeed well.

BTW ... I am doing this unknown to him .. just feel it's useful to help other shooting buddies along.


http://www.bedford.net/design/shoot/ken_assd_s.jpg


From left to right .....

45 grn SP he worked up for me ... yet to load some but will try out in Contender, as a slightly sub max load.
Next is a 50 grn ... again I will try this in a Contender load.
The third one is another SP ....... 45 grains
The first 45 cal is a light 180 grn HP .... very HP!!
Then a heavy HP ..... this is 300 grn.
The next (in front) is an experimental lead he tried .. with a wicked core .. nasty !! That's a 230 grn
The third 45 bullet is another heavy HP version .. a 320 grn.
The very long .224 is 89 grn SP/HP ... very small cavity.
The next to last is 64 grn with a clever polymer tip.
And last ... another SP, a 69 grn.

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Frohickey
December 15, 2003, 08:36 PM
You know...you can make your own swaged bullets. An outfit in Oregon (Corbins) makes the presses, dies and even sells supplies to make swaged bullets.

Oh, the bullets made out of 22LR cases need to be loaded down a little bit. Brass is not as strong as copper.

Center bullet looks like a baseguard bullet. How did the copper core get put into the middle while maintaining concentricity?

P95Carry
December 15, 2003, 08:47 PM
Frohickey ... you'd have to ask him re the concentricity of that middle one!

He does use Corbins equipment and has upgraded his set-up in more recent times.

The velocity factor re the .22 cases ... yeah .. the ones I intend to load for Contender will be significantly sub max loads ... tailored I hope to the 14" barrel for a good (and efficient) powder burn, but still retaining good consistency at the 100 yd region.

cordex
December 15, 2003, 08:54 PM
Neat stuff, but definitely not for anyone who is worried about money. $2.50 per .45 bullet? Ouch!

P95Carry
December 15, 2003, 09:45 PM
The way I look at it is ... hand made bullets can be expensive - a lot of time and cost goes into development .. plus I try and remind myself how much a small box of SD ammo can cost.

Probably, when considering real ''specials'' the final justification might be having something in your carry piece that truly could be a ''one shot stop''... and so also, maybe not too many needed for ''recreational'' shooting.

Not for everyone - but this does seem a niche market with potential.

Edward429451
December 15, 2003, 10:03 PM
I've shot this fellows bullets. The 69g sp's on the far right loaded with 4064 gave me my absolute best group to date in my bushy. True enough it was only a ten rnd sample that he gave me, but I have yet to better that group!

I also am in possession of ten of the 45g on the far left made from 22LR brass but I don't expect they will shoot good in my 1-7" Mini or the 1-9" Bushy.

I dabble in swaging a little, have a corbin CSP1 press and some 451 dies. I mostly make my own Safety Slugs in the 200g weight range. These things are soo accurate its not funny. They make me look good!!

No doubt about it. Swaged bullets ARE all they're cracked up to be. And you get to set your own specifications depending on what you need.

Swaged bullets are pricey because they are handcrafted one step at a time and not mass produced. This does make them pricey but you get what you pay for in terms of quality. That swager fellow is a heck of a nice guy too. Worth checkin out.;)

P95Carry
December 15, 2003, 10:07 PM
Hey ''RKY'' ... :p

Forgot you'd had some to try ... glad you mentioned that!:)

Frohickey
December 15, 2003, 10:18 PM
Corbins make some automated hydraulic swaging presses, as used by the big boys. Its got the commensurate big boys prices as well.

As to hand loads and self defense rounds, there have been posts about using factory loads for self defense rounds because of evil lawyers. Unless you are shooting vampires and werewolves where they disappear into a puff of smoke after you shoot them. :evil:

Car Knocker
December 16, 2003, 01:13 PM
Frohickey,

"As to hand loads and self defense rounds, there have been posts about using factory loads for self defense rounds because of evil lawyers. Unless you are shooting vampires and werewolves where they disappear into a puff of smoke after you shoot them. "


Can you cite a case reference where a lawful shooting resulted in an adverse decision due to non-factory rounds being used?

Thanks.

Frohickey
December 16, 2003, 02:11 PM
Carknocker said:
Can you cite a case reference where a lawful shooting resulted in an adverse decision due to non-factory rounds being used?

No I can't. I'm just citing conventional wisdom. I, too, would be interested in cases where a lawful shooting using non-factory round resulted in bad verdicts.

Car Knocker
December 16, 2003, 02:55 PM
Frohickey,

I'm not so sure that the "conventional wisdom", in this case, isn't on the par with an old wive's tale. I have never, ever, seen anyone cite a factual reference to back up this statement. Everytime we quote this claim, we're merely perpetuating an unsubstantiated rumor, without anything to back it up.

bogie
December 16, 2003, 03:10 PM
Corbin's stuff is okay for varmints and hunting, but you'll want more concentricity for competition... Check out Bart's Bullets (available through Sinclair... made by Lt. Col. Bart Sauter and his wife Kim) if you shoot a .22 (52 grain) or .243 (66 and 68 grain).

Edward429451
December 17, 2003, 10:24 AM
How does Barts make his bullets?

bogie
December 19, 2003, 11:48 AM
They swage 'em by hand, using (I think) J4 jackets.

Let me put it this way - They won 1st place (Ron Hoenh), 2nd place (Bart Sauter), and 3rd place (Alex Dutko) at the 2003 Supershoot, and Bart got Benchrest Shooter of the Year for the season.

http://www.bartsbullets.com/

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=673121

Keep in mind that EACH of those targets in the picture has a documented (via a moving backer sheet) five shots into it. That's 25 shots with well under a 0.2" total dispersion. You can't do that with anything but a PERFECT bullet.

Edward429451
December 19, 2003, 02:26 PM
They swage 'em by hand, using (I think) J4 jackets.

Thats the same way and same materials that this fellow uses, I'm not positive they were j4 jackets, but I know j4's are available from Corbin. I don't think he has a hydraulic press, but it wouldn't matter if he did, the cocentricity would be the same. The stuff I was reading from Corbin says that like 98% of the worlds custom bulletmakers use Corbin equipment, including Glaser and Berger bullets.

All I know is this fellows 69g bullets outshot the 69g SMK's that I shot the same day. I shot more 10 rnd groups with the SMK's than the Thor bullets but the Thor's still walked away the tightest. Not 0.2" but then I'm not in that class of shooter and have a standard Bushy and was using iron sights.

I have not tried this other outfits bullets, but I'm sure they are top notch also.

swager
February 12, 2004, 07:14 PM
I got a link to here and thought I'd sign up. I thought a little info wouldn't hurt. Some of those bullets are benchrest. I use VB jackets. As Dave Corbin says"state of the art in benchrest" I don't know if any of you are very familiar with different slugs, but the ones made out of .22 cases have been recorded at .2 off the bench. I use the same stuff the govt., research facilities use. At this time one of my designs are being tested at speeds over 4000fps. If all goes well you will be reading about them in the magazines. One thing though, my bullets are .224 and weigh 89 grains, bonded. Some of you might be able to guess what kind of rifle will fire these long slugs. I will let the lab bring out the details when it goes to press. I see a lot of discussion here on reloading and hope to join in a few of them. I'm a dillon'oholic,lol. I use a 650 trying to keep up with my little .45 bullet hose. Here's a pic of gelatin tests of 69 bondeds.http://thor-bullets.com/Img_0149%20cropped.jpg

Third_Rail
February 12, 2004, 08:09 PM
Wow, I like the coppercore one... I bet that'd stop someone real quick.

P95Carry
February 12, 2004, 09:10 PM
HEY KEN!!!! :) So you finally did it ... welcome aboard fella, and good to see you here. I am sure some of your experience can be put to good use ....

'Bout time you got your a** over here!! Hey .... hope you don't mind ... tweaked that pic to ''lift'' it a bit .. and made it a tad shorter too cos seemed rather wide, scrolling off etc ...


http://www.bedford.net/design/shoot2/ken_gel_tests.jpg

Later ....

Frohickey
February 12, 2004, 09:54 PM
You pretty much have to bond the core to the jacket for those 224 bullets made with 22LR cases. According to Dave Corbin, you need to take it easy on the velocity for those or else the jacket would fragment and splinter as it goes out of the barrel, if its going too fast.

I think a bullet like that, where its NOT bonded, and not going too fast would make for a very good varmint bullet. Pink mist. :D

swager
February 13, 2004, 07:40 AM
I've used those 22 cases and shoot them about 3000fps as a varmint bullet and they work fine. I've also had people tell me they shoot them around 3600fps and no problems. Bonding can be a problem in the heavier weights, the walls don't support it in the die and they wrinkle. I know they are rated at 3200, but they will hold together over that speed. If you looked at my site, I use 14 seperate lead cores and swage into one. Talk about red mist,lol. I hit a crow at about 170 ft with my bushmaster. I took a good chunk out of it. Oh about the copper cores, I came up with those from a dream. I have more things in the works, but am concentrating on this high speed application right now. I don't have a way to drive slugs 4000+fps. I have to wait for the lab results. After that is finished, I'll go back to some of my other projects in progress. Swaging is great. Even if you use your reloading press and do it for yourself. That's the way I look at it. I would still make my own stuff, whether I sold any or not.

Frohickey
February 13, 2004, 07:04 PM
Time to get a 220Swift for your 4000+fps work.

Or, get a 22Cheetah. :D

swager
February 13, 2004, 09:22 PM
weigh 69,80,, and 89 grains. The 22-250 twist isn't fast enough. The rifle these are fired from is 1in8. The 89s might be a little heavy, but if they kill what the customer wants, I'll sell to him all day. The rifle is a tth. Some in Texas might have heard of it. Oh, that crow shot was about 170 yards, not feet.

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