California and Concealed Carry


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leadcounsel
October 9, 2010, 10:04 AM
What would it take to make California a gun friendly and concealed carry friendly state?

I don't live there, but do want to visit. I just prefer to be armed and possess magazines with greater than 10 rounds....

Why not an individual vote on election day, like the folks for gay rights?

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vynx
October 11, 2010, 06:05 PM
split in two - northern & southern Cal.

Lucky Derby
October 11, 2010, 06:10 PM
Actually California is closer to becoming a "shall issue" state than ever. This is through litigation not legislation or votes.
See Sykes V McGuiness

Take a look at www.calguns.net to see all that is happening in CA.
The 10 round mag ban and reciprocity are further down the list as we have bigger fish to fry right now, but the times, they are a changin'.

Zoogster
October 13, 2010, 12:13 AM
California is just very big and covers most of the west coast.
If you combined the top 2/3 of the entire east coast into one state you would likely have a rather anti-gun state as well.
The metro areas of Boston and New York City, Philadelphia and D.C., with the population dense region of Jersey, along with the generally anti states of MA, CT, NJ, MD would have a greater population of voters and representatives to overcome the rest of the states along the coast.
The gun laws of Pennsylvania, Virginia, New Hampshire, Maine, Vermont, etc would be much worse if it was all one state.

That is the situation in California.
In California the majority of the state by area is not anti-gun. The Los Angeles Metro area along with the Bay Area represented by San Francisco tend to dominate California politics and contain the majority of the population of voters however.

Those portions of the state speak heavily against firearms, highlight their misuse, and children and young adults grow up in a manner where they don't learn to expect or understand firearm freedoms. As a result they then support or act indifferently to yet more legislation.
The anti-gun movement that swept the nation in the 90s and resulted in a lot of national level legislation never died off or had the backlash in California that resulted in most of the nation.
As can be seen by the passage of numerous anti-gun laws in the 2000's, many signed by Republican Arnold Swarzenegger (most of the Democrat candidates in the heavily Democrat state are even worse.)


Pro-gun groups and individuals have succeeded in stopping many laws that did not pass, and winning some court cases requiring better clarification of anti-gun laws (like specifically banning an assault weapon by name, not just all guns arbitrarily considered similar upon local discretion.) But you don't see the actual pushing back and a turning of the tides that results in pro-gun legislation passing and an increase in freedoms like in much of the nation.
The best efforts and a lot of cash just slow the passage of yet more anti-gun laws, reduce the overall number that pass, and require those anti-gun laws that do pass to be clear in what they do.
California would certainly be a lot worse already without these efforts, but it isn't getting better yet.

springwalk
October 13, 2010, 07:48 PM
If there ever were states ; California, Mass, New York, Jersey and Illinois that need concealed carry it would be these. These top 5 leftist rabid blue states are the most dangerous states in terms of crime. To not have a shall issue conceal carry is very anti-American and unconstitutional.:cuss: Cali is a very unsafe state anywhere near the metropolitan areas especially.

leadcounsel
October 14, 2010, 11:44 AM
Maybe Cali should split in half N/S.

vaherder
October 14, 2010, 12:53 PM
Just give California back to Mexico with our apologies for taking it from them along with AZ, NM and TX. Anyone born in these former states ever is no longer a US citizen. Let the great Republic of Mexico deal with these problems.

VA Herder

KBintheSLC
October 14, 2010, 02:23 PM
Its amazing how quickly people turn a CA thread into a bashing fest. This is a serious issue for those of us that live here. If you can't contribute something of substance, please don't waste kilobytes.

Maybe Cali should split in half N/S.

If you really think that the north is less brainwashed than the south, you have likely never even been here.

Easy Solution
Just give California back to Mexico with our apologies for taking it from them along with AZ, NM and TX. Anyone born in these former states ever is no longer a US citizen. Let the great Republic of Mexico deal with these problems.

VA Herder

Simple solution huh?

CA really does need CCW reform, so lets try to keep the pointless, thoughtless comments to a minimum for the sake of the thread. We already know CA is a mess... doesn't take a genius to figure that out. It does, however, take at least some remnant of brain matter to come up with a realistic solution, rather than merely talking out of your exhaust pipe.


...

lloveless
October 14, 2010, 03:05 PM
You don't want others bashing California, yet you claim to be from Stalingrad, Ca. That is the pot calling the kettle black. I was in Moreno Valley this time last year. Most of the people were very pro-gun, as much so as in Tn or Tx. A sign up sheet for a range day was hung multiple times at work(hospital). The problem is the liberals are afraid their gang-bangers etc. will get hurt.
ll

Zoogster
October 14, 2010, 03:11 PM
Maybe Cali should split in half N/S.

It wouldn't help split North and South.

San Francisco has a lot of power and the bay area is one of the most rabidly antigun places in the nation. San Francisco voters even voted to ban all handguns even in the home, ban all sales of guns or ammo in the city, etc Many of their crazy things were overturned by the state because they conflicted with state law and state level gun control, but it still clearly shows their mentality.

Los Angeles in the South is anti-gun, and just the county of Los Angeles has over 10 million people, more than most states in the United States.
The metro area is over 16+ million.
The result of splitting the state would just be two anti-gun states, resulting in two more Senators in Congress to vote anti-gun at the national level.

bigfatdave
October 14, 2010, 08:14 PM
What would it take to make California a gun friendly and concealed carry friendly stateThe citizens of CA getting fed up and either hangingfiring their legislators or simply breaking the unconstitutional laws.

But I'm beginning to think the people of CA have the government they deserve, they sure do accept an amazing number of insulting infringements from their masters.

KBintheSLC
October 15, 2010, 03:54 PM
You don't want others bashing California, yet you claim to be from Stalingrad, Ca. That is the pot calling the kettle black.

A brief stint of casual sarcasm is not the problem here. We all know that CA is a junk show and I'm not that sensitive about it. But this is the "activism" section is it not? Its a poor excuse for actual "activism" to merely sit around and talk through our noses at fellow gun owners about the problems in certain states, while simultaneously failing to provide any real solutions. Suggestions such as splitting the state up, or worse, handing it over (including its citizens) to the Mexican gov are unrealistic, unhelpful, and a little insulting.

Not everyone enjoys the luxury of being the majority in their region. If you are around long enough, you'll know exactly how it feels.

But I'm beginning to think the people of CA have the government they deserve, they sure do accept an amazing number of insulting infringements from their masters.

What would you recommend for those of us who got more than we "deserve"?


...

Bernie Lomax
October 15, 2010, 04:06 PM
In California, permits are issued by the county Sheriff. Although the state is de jure may-issue, many counties are de facto shall-issue. Here's the latest map from calccw.com:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f337/clownburner/OCCCWS/ca_ccw_map-big.png

KBintheSLC
October 15, 2010, 04:23 PM
Interesting map. CA is actually very pro-gun with the exception of a couple of the most populated sectors of the state. Sadly, those voters dictate which dictators we have to suffer in Sacramento.

bigfatdave
October 15, 2010, 04:45 PM
permits are issued by the county Sheriff.

OK, serious question then.
If there are friendly counties, why not just set up a residence there and apply through their sheriff?
Are CA permits only good in the county they are issued in?

KBintheSLC
October 15, 2010, 06:48 PM
The permits issued by the sheriff are valid statewide. However, setting up a secondary residence in a place where you do not live and work is a task best reserved for the wealthy. And, even if you go to all of that trouble, the sheriff could still deny you on arbitrary accounts.

CA badly needs state-wide legislative reform and preemption of CCW laws, but that reform will only come on the heels of educating the public. I firmly believe that fleeing to greener pastures never won anybody their freedom. Most of the anti-gun sentiment here comes from a poorly educated and scared population who still believes that gun control laws actually stop criminals.

Perhaps we need to focus our efforts on some good old fashioned PR work. After all, the anti's do their fair share of PR against gun ownership. This can start on the grassroots level... as simple as taking a fence-sitter or youngster to the range and teaching them to shoot.

...

bigfatdave
October 15, 2010, 08:08 PM
setting up a secondary residence in a place where you do not live and work is a task best reserved for the wealthyI see a cottage industry selling pigeonholes in a storefront ... calling them "suite 22", or "unit 15", or "apartment B".
After all, a mailing address is a mailing address, right?

Seems like the apathy and lack of G.A.S. is the problem, if there are shall-issue sheriffs, then go to the shall-issue sheriffs and then point out the large percentage of the population with valid CC permits who aren't causing a problem.

zoom6zoom
October 15, 2010, 08:25 PM
According to that map, the upcoming "Big One" earthquake may convert the state!

joe_security
October 15, 2010, 08:52 PM
And the two on the border are no issue or unlikely to issue. I would think those two are where honest citizens would need them . Can you say Falcon Lake ?

Bernie Lomax
October 15, 2010, 09:08 PM
According to that map, the upcoming "Big One" earthquake may convert the state!

LOFL. Learn to swim, I'll see you down in Arizona Bay.

mdug59
October 15, 2010, 11:29 PM
You would have to approach it from a constitutional angle and cover all "anti" states....to much money, time, and manpower to chip away at all the local laws to ever see any real improvement.

ElToro
October 16, 2010, 02:21 AM
its not splitting the stat enorth south, need to split it east west. make all areas inside 50 miles from a coastline a new state and they would have all the lefty commie cities but we need to figger a way to excise sacramento. the rest of the inland area can be its own state and be plenty fine.

bergmen
February 16, 2011, 07:14 PM
OK, serious question then.
If there are friendly counties, why not just set up a residence there and apply through their sheriff?
Are CA permits only good in the county they are issued in?
The County Sheriff will issue permits based on the county of residency. They are wise to the scheme of just getting a P.O. box to make it look like you live there.

In our County (Mendocino), the Sheriff (Tom Allman) asks that this part of his discretionary issue not be compromised. He will revoke if discovered.

What needs to be kept in mind is if you are ever involved in a gun related incident that involves concealed carry, your permit better be valid on the grounds in which it was issued. You don't live in the county of issuance it will be as if you do not have a CCW license.

Also, if you live within city limits, it is the Chief of Police of that city that is the issuing agency.

Dan

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