Carrying in MO as a non citizen.


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Tomahawk674
October 9, 2010, 05:53 PM
Hello everyone, I have a question. I am a permanent resident (green card holder) of the USA. By federal law I can acquire handguns (and already have). However the state of MO will not issue to a non-citizen, but I see that Florida and Utah will issue ccw's to people like me. Since these states have permit reciprocity with Missouri, would it be ok to get a Florida ccw and carry in Missouri?

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snubbies
October 9, 2010, 06:25 PM
I am unsure but don't both, and probably all permit States, require you reside in that State. Falsifying any info on application may be a crime.

gun addict
October 9, 2010, 06:32 PM
no florida and Utah has non-resident permit you can apply for out of state

Tomahawk674
October 9, 2010, 06:35 PM
So does that mean it's ok? the Florida permit sounds great. It lasts for 7 years.

snubbies
October 9, 2010, 06:52 PM
http://www.gunshopfinder.com/articles/ccwpermits.html

Tomahawk674
October 9, 2010, 06:59 PM
Sure did help. looks like it's a go.

writerinmo
October 10, 2010, 02:56 AM
Yes, you can be a resident of Missouri and carry with a Florida or Utah permit. My wife has two SIS's from 11 years ago, and while she can purchase handguns, Missouri won't issue her a CCW because of these, but she can carry concealed with a permit from Florida or Utah which is what we are going to do this next year.

The Bushmaster
October 10, 2010, 10:26 AM
Tomahawk...Go to www.missouricarry.com Go to the bottom of the page, click on "main page" and ask that question. It is THE premier CCW site in Missouri.

lloveless
October 10, 2010, 02:37 PM
What is an SIS?
ll

mgkdrgn
October 11, 2010, 08:31 AM
NO.

IF you are a resident of MO, and you CAN NOT get a MO resident CCW, then a non-resident permit from another state will not be valid in MO.

mgkdrgn
October 11, 2010, 08:34 AM
Yes, you can be a resident of Missouri and carry with a Florida or Utah permit. My wife has two SIS's from 11 years ago, and while she can purchase handguns, Missouri won't issue her a CCW because of these, but she can carry concealed with a permit from Florida or Utah which is what we are going to do this next year.
No.

IF she is a MO resident, and is prohibited from carrying in MO by MO law, then getting an out of state non-resident permit DOES NOT trump MO law.

Swamperjmb
March 6, 2011, 09:06 PM
From mgkdrgn


No.

IF she is a MO resident, and is prohibited from carrying in MO by MO law, then getting an out of state non-resident permit DOES NOT trump MO law.

Yes you can, I know I'm new to the forum and trust me, I'm not trying to start anything. This needs to be known for people like writerinmo and his wife and people like myself.... Here is the words straight from an attornys mouth..... http://www.carlwardlaw.com/blog-entry-21.html

Jim Figaniak
March 6, 2011, 09:16 PM
The reciprocity only applies to legal acquisition of permit in state where you reside.

Jim.

NavyLCDR
March 6, 2011, 09:29 PM
IF she is a MO resident, and is prohibited from carrying in MO by MO law, then getting an out of state non-resident permit DOES NOT trump MO law.

The reciprocity only applies to legal acquisition of permit in state where you reside.

Jim.

Can you please show us in Missouri statutes support for your claims? I just don't see it in the actual statutes:

http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/chapters/chap571.htm

Unlawful use of weapons--exceptions--penalties.

571.030. 1. A person commits the crime of unlawful use of weapons if he or she knowingly:

(1) Carries concealed upon or about his or her person a knife, a firearm, a blackjack or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use; or

(8) Carries a firearm or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use into any church or place where people have assembled for worship, or into any election precinct on any election day, or into any building owned or occupied by any agency of the federal government, state government, or political subdivision thereof; or

(10) Carries a firearm, whether loaded or unloaded, or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use into any school, onto any school bus, or onto the premises of any function or activity sponsored or sanctioned by school officials or the district school board.

4. Subdivisions (1), (8), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section shall not apply to any person who has a valid concealed carry endorsement issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121 or a valid permit or endorsement to carry concealed firearms issued by another state or political subdivision of another state.

If a Missouri resident possess a Florida non-resident permit or a Utah non-resident permit, why would their Florida or Utah non-resident permit not fulfill the bold portion of subsection 4. above? Please show us in statutes...

hirundo82
March 6, 2011, 09:29 PM
Be careful about making blanket statements about carry laws in different states. Just because your state prohibits residents from carrying on a permit from a different state does not mean all states do.

In Texas, there are certain factors that will make you unable to get a CHL but do not disqualify you from owning firearms--eg delinquent in payment of taxes or child support. In these cases it is a valid option to obtain an out of state permit, such as Utah (although this soon won't be an option for this purpose) or Florida. They are then legal to carry under Texas law.

jeeptim
March 6, 2011, 09:48 PM
SIS??

NavyLCDR
March 6, 2011, 09:59 PM
An example of a law that prohibits out of state permits for residents is Washington:

RCW 9.41.073
Concealed pistol license Reciprocity.

(b) This section applies to a license holder from another state only while the license holder is not a resident of this state. A license holder from another state must carry the handgun in compliance with the laws of this state.

I just don't see it in Missouri statutes.

Swamperjmb
March 7, 2011, 09:32 AM
Its all mumbo jumbo to me. Thanks God for all those attorneys that put the statutes in layman's tearms.......... I will be speaking to an attorney personally tomorrow about what I can and cant do.... I will keep you all posted........

bhk
March 7, 2011, 11:22 AM
Lots and lots of folks in this great state of Missouri carry on out-of-state permits. This situation began when certain counties (many of them, if fact) balked at issuing permits when our new ccw law was passed. Thousands of Missourians are carrying on Utah, Florida, and PA permits. In fact, Centre County PA was flooded with requests from Missourians. Sherrif Nau, a real good guy from Centre County, helped out a lot of us (including me). PA law has changed somewhat since then, making getting the PA permit a little harder and, I believe, the law in Utah is also changing. Florida is now probably the best bet.

As time goes on and these out-of-state permits expire, I think most are now getting Missouri permits because all Missouri counties have been in full complience for some time now. That, though, doesn't change the validity of the out-of-state permits.

In a related thought, Missouri doesn't issue permits to anyone under 23. It is evidentally legal, though, for a Missourian to carry in Missouri on a Maine permit when 18 and many do so.

AlexanderA
March 7, 2011, 04:04 PM
This whole discussion of ccw reciprocity shows just how confusing the situation is. There should be a federal law that requires national reciprocity (for example, a Florida permit would have to be honored in N.Y., Ill., or Cal.). But for such permits to be honored nationwide, they would have to be issued under a uniform set of standards, concerning such things as age requirements, citizenship/residency status, training requirements, etc. Take a reasonably least-restrictive state (such as Virginia) and make it the national standard. It's this current practice of "forum-shopping" (a Virginia resident getting a Utah permit, for example) that makes things so confusing.

Swamperjmb
March 7, 2011, 06:21 PM
I couldn't agree more, even standards and laws that doesn't take a PHD to understand. My attorney hasn't been in contact with me as of yet but, I did how ever talk to an x Cass county sheriff and gave him all my particulars and he said he would talk to the guys in Jackson and Cass county's and let me know what he comes up with....... He says it's ultimately up to the sheriff to begin with and its been past the 5 year mark??? I have no idea but I will post everything as the info trickles in............ Would be nice to get the MO CCW and not have to deal with an out of state permit to begin with....

PapaG
March 7, 2011, 07:51 PM
Last year, the last time I checked, Missouri recognized all other states' concealed carry permits..I asked and got their law/regulation pamphlet on ccw. Didn't matter where the permit was issued or if you were a resident of that state with one interesting exception: You cannot be a Mo. resident who was denied a permit and then get one out of state. Won't recognize that one.
They also have a "safe traveler act" which allows a person traveling through the state to carry concealed in their vehicle as long as they are in transit. Can't get out of the car and carry unless you have a ccw.
Of course, check for today's regulations before going there. They do change.
I'm headed for AL. in a few days. You can bet I'll check on MO, AR, TN, KY, MS and AL before I go to see what new regs have been added or changed regarding my Utah and Florida permits......
Stan from the Republik of IL. I cross the river, I can carry. I come home, I can't. Wish my state trusted me to take care of myself.

Swamperjmb
March 7, 2011, 08:48 PM
"You cannot be a Mo. resident who was denied a permit and then get one out of state. Won't recognize that one."

Thats what I'm trying to avoid. I would just rather apply for Florida's and be done with it.

NavyLCDR
March 7, 2011, 08:58 PM
You cannot be a Mo. resident who was denied a permit and then get one out of state. Won't recognize that one.

And the statutory reference for that would be?

In fact, on page 5 of this manual:
http://www.mshp.dps.missouri.gov/MSHPWeb/Publications/Brochures/documents/SHP-863.pdf

we read:

Out-of-state residents cannot obtain a Missouri concealed carry endorsement.
However, nothing prohibits Missouri residents from obtaining
a concealed carry permit from another state, and those permits
would be valid in Missouri.

Can you please show us where the exception is for those denied a Missouri Permit?

It's plain and simple: Even the pamphlet published by the Missouri State Highway Patrol says that an out of state permit held by a Missouri resident is valid. Period. End of sentence.

wildbilll
March 8, 2011, 01:22 AM
It is common knowledge in MO that residents of MO under the age of 23 can get an OOS permit, such as MA at the tender young age of 18, and they are then good to go in MO because the law says that if you hold a valid OOS permit from just about any other jurisdiction, it is valid in MO.
It has been that way since the inception of the law and has produced zero issues.

cleardiddion
March 8, 2011, 02:21 PM
Seriously, what is SIS?

NavyLCDR
March 8, 2011, 02:27 PM
Seems incredibly simple?

Swamperjmb
March 8, 2011, 08:20 PM
A SIS is a
"A suspended imposition of sentence or s.i.s. is basically suspends a sentence. There is usually a duration put on the s.i.s. that is known as the probation. Usually a person has a s.i.s. when they plead guilty or plea bargain for a crime. Basically, the courts are seeing if a person can act better. If a person gets in trouble again during their probation period, then the court can punish the person for the crime that they committed previously. If the person does not get in trouble during their probation period, then the crime is forgiven and the person is not convicted."



Taken fron Answers.com

Swamperjmb
March 8, 2011, 08:36 PM
OK my findings are..... It is possible to get a permit in MO, however its a risk. The risk is that you may be charged with perjury. There is a box on there form that you have to check that states " have you ever been convicted of or have pleaded guilty to a felony. If you are like me and its been 16 years since you have been a brain dead teenager then you would have checked no. That would have gotten you a perjury charge. I spoke with Jeff Cox, an attorney in Raymore, MO running for council " you can google him and see what he has done" and he stated that he had a client that had a case similar to mine that was approved and has had his ccw permit for a few years until he applied for something else. They discovered his sis from years ago at that time. He was sent a letter of forfeiture and had to hand his permit in at the Cass County sheriff's department within 30 days of receiving this letter. He then went down and forfeited his permit and got arrested for purjury..... So if you feel like you may get away with it go ahead, FL's non resident is the only legal way to go. This advice comes form the 6 attorneys that I have spoken with on the phone. This is the results from the questionnaire that FL has that I took " Based upon your answers, you may not qualify for the following reasons:

You answered Yes to question 16 - Have you received a suspended sentence on any felony?
You are not eligible for licensure if you have received a suspended sentence on any felony resulting in an adjudication of guilt unless you have had your civil rights restored AND your firearm rights restored by the state in which you were convicted or by the federal government if your crime was a federal offense.

However, if three years have elapsed since probation or any other conditions set by the court have been fulfilled, or the record has been sealed or expunged, you may be eligible for licensure.

A copy of the document issued by the court or probation office evidencing completion of probation or other conditions must be submitted with your application. Upon receipt of this documentation, your application will be further reviewed to determine your eligibility for licensure. If additional information is required, you will be notified in writing."

Here is the link for the questionnaire

http://app1.licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/firearms/prequal_questions.aspx

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