Home Depot & Citi Bank vs the shooting industry


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chieftain
October 9, 2010, 07:19 PM
For your consideration:


The Politics of Credit

... A letter, dated September 30, 2010, was received October 4. It confirmed that the "account was opened in error . . ." going on to say, "Our policy restricts us from lending to businesses in your industry." ...

I will not be dealing with Citibank or Home Depot anymore. They make their choices, I make mine.

Go figure.

Fred

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killchain
October 9, 2010, 07:24 PM
Wow. Hope Home Depot doesn't want our military to protect their buildings if there's ever an invasion. Might go against their policy.

MTMilitiaman
October 9, 2010, 07:35 PM
Would a list of all of Citibank's affiliates be available? Who are these guys supporting?

Who are their competitors? As a red blooded American capitalist, I would like to know who I can give me meager funds to that isn't related to these hippy-spawned pinko-pacifists. Is Lowes sleeping with the enemy too?

Big Bill
October 9, 2010, 07:39 PM
Citi and HD are creeps. I will NEVER do business with any of them EVER again!

cassandrasdaddy
October 9, 2010, 07:59 PM
with my name and acct number telling em that i'm not gonna spend a dime again there or advise my clients to. in a good year i spend a bunch on cabinets kitchens and baths.used to do custom kitchens for em.

Tim the student
October 9, 2010, 08:01 PM
Link?

ArmedBear
October 9, 2010, 08:06 PM
Home Depot sells gun safes, last I checked.

This is a Citibank deal. It might be worthwhile to contact Home Depot; it is not in their interest to deny a Home Depot credit card to a medium-sized business.

taliv
October 9, 2010, 08:13 PM
My mortgage was with citi. They'll be getting a payoff from usaa my new lender and a note from me.

Not that they'll care.

If you want to start a campaign to hurt them we should petition to have them delisted since their penny stock hasn't met listing requirements in over a year

MikeNice
October 9, 2010, 08:15 PM
I bank strictly with a local credit union. I will now also do business with Lowes and True Value instead of Home Depot.

Russ Jackson
October 9, 2010, 08:20 PM
You might want to give The Home Depot a call in Atlanta where the home office is. Relax take a breath and deal with the decision makers at The Home Depot. They are an open door company. Chances are you will talk to the right person with just a few calls. I have had over 20 years dealing with them and have never found the true decision makers to make poor decisions. Go up the food chain and talk to the right person. ...Russ

WardenWolf
October 9, 2010, 08:29 PM
Sooner or later they're going to be hit with a Restraint of Trade lawsuit.

DFW1911
October 10, 2010, 10:35 AM
"Our policy restricts us from lending to businesses in your industry." ...

My policy restricts me from giving them any of my money.

Thanks for the post. I'll conduct business with other companies from now on.

Take care
DFW1911

jay223
October 10, 2010, 10:50 AM
im shocked at thd !!!!!! i dont deal with citi anyways .....and now i never will !!!! the home depot thing is shocking.......im gonna make some calls and see what i can find out....if the status stays the way it is in this thread...i wont be doing business there either !!!!!

heeler
October 10, 2010, 11:00 AM
I see the op's title to the thread but I dont have a clue what exactly is being talked about here.
What's this about??
I ask because I was about to head over to Home Depot to pick something up.

snubbies
October 10, 2010, 11:00 AM
What kind of account are you referring to?? I am a dealer and hold a Citi Bank Professional Card????

52grain
October 10, 2010, 11:01 AM
There must be a bunch of background info that I missed. Is there a previous thread on this subject?

Tim the student
October 10, 2010, 11:05 AM
There must be a bunch of background info that I missed. Is there a previous thread on this subject?

There was. It got deleted. (I assume due to the new copyright concerns.) I don't feel like I recall it well enough to rehash the full thing, but I'm sure someone will be able to. I don't want to butcher it, or tell untrue things.

I wish I could see a link or 15.

ETA: To clarify, the background info was in this thread. No other threads on it that I know of.

Mags
October 10, 2010, 11:07 AM
I think from reading through this that Home Depot's only fault in all of this is that they have selected Citi Bank as the financial institution for their consumer and business credit cards.

The real problem here is Citi Bank not Home Depot.

jdc1244
October 10, 2010, 11:22 AM
Link?

Indeed.

It’s pointless to try to comment without all the facts.

Otherwise and in general – some of you need to get a grip and stop contributing to existing negative stereotypes concerning gun owners. That’s much more harmful to our cause than companies who refuse to do business with the ‘gun industry.’

Bubbles
October 10, 2010, 11:25 AM
The problem is not Citi, it is First Data, the transaction processor that handles electronic payments for Citi, BoA, Chase, PayPal, and many other banks. First Data handles 70% of the CC/DC payments in the US and for years has refused to work with companies in the firearms industry.

For more info google CDNN NSSF "First Data" and do some reading.

BlkHawk73
October 10, 2010, 11:30 AM
Yet again, people are quite content being a customer of a business until something like this then WHOA! IMO, if such political sides mean oh so much, you, the customer, would look into such policies BEFORE being a customer. After all, it's a big deal right?
I read threads about people boycotting store A and restaurant B becuase of a firearms policy and wonder how these same folks send mail... can't carry in a post office so they must be anti-gun too. :p Everyone's pointing a finger at CitiBank...can you freely carry a firearm into your bank? No? Best get your money out then. :neener: Do these folks work in a place they can freely carry a firearm? Hope so of they're going against their own guidelines there too. :rolleyes:


Not sure if it's sad, funny or just plain out hypocrisy that people do this. :banghead:

Jorg Nysgerrig
October 10, 2010, 11:44 AM
Here's a link to the original article: http://www.theoutdoorwire.com/features/223490

Y'all might find this bit interesting: ""Citi does not prohibit the financing of firearms purchases by individuals nor the financing of businesses that manufacture and sell them to individuals for recreational use." It goes on to say they don't finance military suppliers. I suspect that small businesses vying for military contracts probably have a high default rate and it's a business decision.

After reading the whole article, calls to stop shopping at Home Depot seem pretty silly.

More from the NRA-ILA on this: http://www.nraila.org/legislation/read.aspx?id=6050
At this time, it does not appear that Citibank is actively denying banking services or credit in an attempt to discriminate against firearm-related businesses.

Tim the student
October 10, 2010, 11:47 AM
Thanks for that Jorg.

possum
October 10, 2010, 12:09 PM
I don't do any business with Citi Bank, i use USAA, but i wonder what Home Depot would think since i go there to get the materials to make target stands? :)

Home Depot sells gun safes, last I checked.
exactly.

Mudinyeri
October 10, 2010, 01:38 PM
It is quite common for issuers of credit, e.g. banks, to limit the industries with which they will do business. I work for a mid-sized, regional bank in the Midwest and we have a specific list of industries with which we will not do business. Furthermore, the OCC publishes a list of industries considered "high-risk." If you do business with industries on the list, you have to have additional due diligence in place to ensure that your bank is protected against loss and can pass an OCC exam.

As in many cases, all that facts may not be in evidence here.

GunsAmerica Fan
October 10, 2010, 02:09 PM
Guys,

I am the first who will line up against a company for being anti 2nd Amendment rights but this has nothing to do with it.

It was clearly a mistake by the people administrating the HD credit accounts, unless this company does have military supplier IDs on some of their products in which it would be justified.

The policy is clearly against companies who make firearms for the military. It is about risk management, not about guns. At some point their underwriting department determined that the risk factor for that particular type of supply was risky and that the companies who had Citi cards and were supplying the military with firearms were defaulting on their corporate debt.

It is no different than your local pharmacy not taking Medicaid, because Medicaid has a habit of coming back two years later, raiding your books and taking back money they paid you, claiming that they were false claims. It's just business and it has nothing to do with guns or RKBA.

There are issues with First Data as above and that CDNN article is now famous, but if I discuss the research that I did the mods will demerit me and tell me I am hijacking yet another thread to promote my business. I advise anyone who sells guns with a merchant account to look into the policies of their provider, even if they got their merchant account through a RKBA sponsored provider. Everything is not as it seems and you may be financing a very anti-gun wing of the credit industry.

This case however has nothing to do with it.

Old Fuff
October 10, 2010, 03:41 PM
I picked up the story on The Shooting Wire, and I have found it to be a pretty reliable source.

Anyway the explanation concerning the military doesn’t wash. The company that is involved is a small manufacturer who makes scope rings and related products. They have never sold anything to the military services. They applied to Home Depot for credit because they wanted to buy materials to be used to increase the size of their factory. At no time was their credit worthiness questioned.

At the Shooting Wire this matter is still under investigation, but any reference to the military in any context is a red hearing.

bellemare
October 10, 2010, 04:05 PM
i don't do business with citi, but that's because they're a national bank. i do as much of my money stuff as possible with my local credit union

Jorg Nysgerrig
October 10, 2010, 04:17 PM
Old Fuff, see the comment from the NRA-ILA. http://www.nraila.org/legislation/read.aspx?id=6050

Let's apply Occam's Razor to the two scenarios:

Scenario A: Citi trying to undermine the Second Amendment by preventing Warne from expanding their shop through restricting their line of credit, despite the fact the extend credit to a number of other gun related businesses because they secretly know that without scope rings, guns are useless.

- or -

Scenario B: Warne was misclassified as a military supplier due to either something in their application or a simple clerical error as being in a high-risk industry that Citi doesn't serve for business reasons.

One of those scenarios seems a lot more likely than the other.

I suppose one could insist the NRA-ILA is in bed with CITI and is just covering for them as part of the conspiracy to slow the production of scope rings. :)

Old Fuff
October 10, 2010, 07:49 PM
Were it not for the previous matter concerning Citi Bank and CDNN Sports I might park my tinfoil hat... :D

But the article I refered to in The Shooting Wire made it pretty clear that the company had tried to straighten things out and met a brick wall.

The editor, Jim Shepard, made it clear that his investigation would continue - with follow-up reports. I will await them with interest.

It will also be interesting to see how far the NRA gets with Citi in attempting to resolve the matter, and I'm sure a report to the members will also be forthcoming.

In the meantime, my opinion of Citi is such that it couldn't get past Art's Grandma... :(

joed70
October 10, 2010, 09:53 PM
I quit doing business w HD for more reason that that. They financially support some organizations that I strongly disagree with.. Lowes is only a block away.........

Bonesinium
October 10, 2010, 10:06 PM
As I look at my Government Travel Card I see that it says Citi on it. So what does prohibiting financing for companies that makes stuff for the military do when they extend credit directly to the military?.....

JohnBT
October 10, 2010, 10:07 PM
"if such political sides mean oh so much, you, the customer, would look into such policies BEFORE being a customer"

Do you really believe there is somebody out there with enough time to research every single outfit they do business with day in and day out? Get serious.

tuckerdog1
October 11, 2010, 07:37 AM
The HD where I live gives a 10% discount for all active & former military 365 days a year.

I like 'em.

Tuckerdog1

22-rimfire
October 11, 2010, 08:01 AM
I'm not a fan of Citi Bank. I'm not particularly a fan of Home Depot. I only visit their stores if there is no other practical choice or Lowe's doesn't have it. The fact is I go to Ace Hardware over Home Depot because they are locally owned.

SSN Vet
October 11, 2010, 09:58 AM
Why would anyone even consider banking with Citi?

There being investigated for major fraud...

They hate there customers....

They're the absolute worst when it comes to corporate social engineering....

Let 'em figure out how to conduct business without customers and rot in the grave they created for themselves is my opinion.

Zoogster
October 11, 2010, 12:19 PM
So what does prohibiting financing for companies that makes stuff for the military do when they extend credit directly to the military?

It is not about not supporting the military, it is about how the military handles contractors. Which makes many types of government contractors quite risky to lend to.
The military will often have bidding wars (lowest bidder wins) to make a product that fits a specific need. These companies then often borrow millions of dollars (or billions) to build a product they hope to make lots of profit selling to the military.
Sometimes the military creates a contract with several competing companies at once to build similar things.
Then all of a sudden the military will cancel a project. It does not matter if the company just spent millions of dollars and went into debt to fulfill a contract, the contract is terminated.
The profit intended by the company never comes and if they are not big enough to absorb the blow they default on their debts or file bankruptcy.
The bank that lent the money now made a bad loan.

The military itself however is a much more reliable borrower of money, as it is backed by tax payers and politicians that borrow against those tax payers.

Just look up the latest warship or military aircraft and you can find this situation. Sometimes the military throws them a smaller project to keep the contractor afloat so they don't cease to exist (which helps the military in the long run by keeping competing companies they have a relationship and history with around to domestically build important products in the future.)
But that courtesy it typically extended to the larger ones, the smaller contractors simply are left to collapse.

You can have a contract canceled as a contractor for no reason by the military with little recourse. If they order 5 million of something and you build a facility and obtain all the material to create 5 million of them and they cancel it, you are stuck.
If you are building some unique thing and there is a change in projected costs because a new issue pops up and you don't have the personal phone number of important people in Washington, you can get instantly canceled even if everything else is going great.
The military is a very lucrative client if things work out, but it also has higher risks with less recourse than most clients in the civilian economy.


For all these reasons it is very dangerous to loan money to a military contractor. Unless they are one of the larger established contractors that can continue paying for the loan even if they end up screwed on an individual contract, and will likely succeed with another contract soon in the future.

Tinpig
October 11, 2010, 06:18 PM
Hope Home Depot doesn't want our military to protect their buildings if there's ever an invasion. Might go against their policy.

Home Depot is not anti-military. They give discounts to veterans and active duty, and they have an extremely positive hiring policy with regard to former military.

Tinpig

Old Fuff
October 11, 2010, 06:55 PM
Apparently Home Depot is an innocent party in this mess. They took the application and approved it. But Citi Bank is the outfit that actually issues the card, and they were the one that rejected the application. After that there was nothing the manager at the local Home Depot could do.

On the other hand, If Home Depot catches enough flack for what Citi did they might get a different credit card provider.

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