223 four deer ?


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jetsfan-24
October 10, 2010, 08:05 AM
which would b a better four deer federal 55 grain barnes tsx or federal 60 grain nosler partition i know their a little small four deer but it,s four my 11 year old little girl and i,ll b backing her up with a 257 weatherby mag

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BHP FAN
October 10, 2010, 10:01 AM
I'd take the heavier bullet, but for only one deer....seriously, a buddy's wife uses a mini 14, with a five shot mag. works just fine.

courtgreene
October 10, 2010, 10:50 AM
I peronally look forward to using a .223 FOR deer. I just got some winchester super-x 64grn cartridges FOR it. I have bigger rifles, but I want to actually try it so that I can weigh in on the vast expanse of threads on this topic. (Don't judge me unless you have tried it please.)

timney t
October 10, 2010, 11:23 AM
i've heard .223 is just fine as long as your not using the really light stuff. Federal makes a 60 grain partition just for deer. should work just fine for those light skinned game.

here is a link on the reviews
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=891153

Art Eatman
October 10, 2010, 11:24 AM
Generally, 50- and 55-grain bullets are for varmints, and expansion is more important than penetration. The heavier bullets, 60 grains to 70 grains, work better as deer loads.

I figure I'd be picky about my shots, going either for the neck or for a cross-body heart/lung shot. No angling shots on a deer that's quartering away, for sure.

HGUNHNTR
October 10, 2010, 11:53 AM
First off its "for" not "four". Four is the #4.


Secondly, either of the two bullets should be OK. I have had excellent success witht he Winchester 64 Gr. Powerpoint. Federal also makes a similar bullet in Federal flavor.

FLAvalanche
October 10, 2010, 01:44 PM
First of its "for" not "four". Four is the #4.

Umm...don't point out somebody elses spelling problems while making one of your own.

blackops
October 10, 2010, 02:15 PM
Umm...don't point out somebody elses spelling problems while making one of your own.

And you shouldn't critique any of those errors utilizing "Umm" in a sentence or forgetting the apostrophe in “elses“ (else's).:neener:

IMO, a 223 is too light, but considering this is for an 11 year old girl, that's quite understandable. I would recommend utilizing the heaviest bullet and positioning her as close as possible for the shot.

HGUNHNTR
October 10, 2010, 02:37 PM
That was a typo, not a spelling error.

R.W.Dale
October 10, 2010, 02:45 PM
Either of those bullets are excellent choices. Just pick the one your rifle shoots best.
The tsx will likely penetrate deeper and be more accurate and the partition will likely cause a bit more dramatic wound channel. IMO a 6 one way half dozen another situation.

A great read featuring the 60g partition
http://www.shootingillustrated.com/Ammo/Rifle/Bullethitsbone.html

Generally speaking when folks make comments on bullets based purely on weight they're going by knowledge that may be decades out of date. A word of warning though, after you witness firsthand what premium .22 bullets will do to deer your weatherby might find itself very very lonely come next season.

ZeroJunk
October 10, 2010, 02:53 PM
Generally speaking when folks make comments on bullets based purely on weight they're going by knowledge that may be decades out of date.

I understand your thinking. But, if the 55 grain bullet is better than it was decades ago, wouldn't a heavier bullet be better also?

R.W.Dale
October 10, 2010, 03:18 PM
Depends on what's being compared

Solid copper to solid copper sure (if your bbl will shoot em)

Solid copper to partition however is a much murkier comparison.

Today's solid copper bullets are almost like shooting bullets that weigh 30 grains more than they actually do compared to older lead cored projectiles.

My point is the bullet dark ages are long over. Today we have more bullets than ever to choose from and in many cases manufactures offer many different bullets running the full spectrum of terminal ballistic performance in the same weight.

Saying x bullet is for y critters because it weighs k grains today isn't gonna cut it in a discussion about terminal bullet performance and doing so just shows how far behind the times you are.

daorhgih
October 10, 2010, 03:38 PM
Is this an "expanding" bullet? "Oхoтничий" translates as "hunter", as in great-white-hunter. Does anyone have experience with this rd in deer, and in hog? 50gr seems fast and light. Thanks.

essayons21
October 10, 2010, 07:50 PM
We actually just had this discussion in Reloading

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=547805

FLNT4EVR
October 11, 2010, 09:45 AM
Try the Winchester 64grn Power Point loads. Winchester developed them specificaly for deer hunting with the .223.

ZXD9
October 11, 2010, 11:20 AM
62gr Barnes TSX worked great this weekend for my son. 2" exit wound and visibly broken bones.

CSA 357
October 11, 2010, 07:46 PM
you will need a 50 clip!

S&Wfan
October 11, 2010, 09:58 PM
Lots of deer have been killed with .22LR bullets too . . . but shot carefully in the ear. The .223? I don't like to track wounded deer for hours . . . but a .223 bullet will kill 'em. Not the best or most humane choice though.

22-rimfire
October 11, 2010, 10:12 PM
Choose the heavier bullet. I'm not an advocant for using the .223 for whitetails. But it works with good bullet placement.

03Shadowbob
October 12, 2010, 06:11 AM
I like to use the Winchester Ranger 62gr for whitetail. I used them this past weekend with great success.
106 yds neck/spine shot on a doe. DRT.
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s113/BJCWALL/Deerhunting2010002.jpg

125 yds on a small buck with spine shot. DRT
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s113/BJCWALL/Deerhunting2010011.jpg

griff383
October 12, 2010, 09:09 AM
I think shot placement is key with a .223. If you know the anatomy of a deer then you should be able to make an itelligent decision and make the harvest quick and painless.

jimmyraythomason
October 12, 2010, 09:23 AM
I think shot placement is key with a .223. If you know the anatomy of a deer then you should be able to make an itelligent decision and make the harvest quick and painless. This is very true but you can leave out this "with a .223." and it would STILL be true.

d2wing
October 17, 2010, 09:52 PM
2 years ago I shot a 14 pt 200+ lb buck with a 55 gr psf. One shot to the lungs. A game warden told me he uses a .223 to kill big game for wildlife reseach. It is plenty if you are a careful shot and don't take long shots. Not only for bullet placement but bullet performance as well. It is not legal in all states. I am considering a 6.8 SPC upper for more power.

Speed Trap
October 17, 2010, 10:08 PM
Shoot the TSX. A lot of deer are killed in Texas with a .223 and the TSX. And, this is from somebody who knows...

W.E.G.
October 17, 2010, 10:13 PM
Deer?

I say nuke them from orbit... just to be sure.

stsimons
October 18, 2010, 09:22 PM
http://www.haluze.cz/fotky/big/kanon-2.jpg1.980747.jpg

Don't you know? You need at least a 700 Nitro express, and you have to stalk them to within 25ft so you can throw it hard enough to kill them with a head shot.

Sunray
October 18, 2010, 10:17 PM
First look into the legalities of using a .223 in PA. Semi-autos are not legal for deer hunting in PA.
The bullet has to be made for deer sized game. Like Art says, most, 55 grain bullets used in factory ammo are varmint bullets. Those are not suitable for deer.
The rifle your daughter will be using matters too. The rifling twist has to be fast enough. And your daughter has to be able to hit a 9" pie plate, at 100 yards, every time.

2ndAmFan
October 19, 2010, 05:13 AM
My 02: Can't say I'd use a .223 for deer at all, but I know people have and do take them that way. For a young, inexperienced deer hunter I think a 30.30 is a better choice, as is a 7.62 by 39 mm. Neither of these rounds produce significant recoil and they are more likely to produce DRT kills than a .223. I sure wouldn't like to chase around the countryside after a deer that would have dropped on the spot and stayed there if I'd used a more suitable weapon.

jimmyraythomason
October 19, 2010, 07:23 AM
I sure wouldn't like to chase around the countryside after a deer that would have dropped on the spot and stayed there if I'd used a more suitable weapon. I only had this happen once. I was using an 8x57mm. All the rest had to be tracked down. They were all taken with 30.06s. .308s, 7mm/.08. Caliber does not garantee a DRT situation.

bikerdoc
October 19, 2010, 07:30 AM
In Virginia .24 is the lowest caliber allowed, precluding the use of 223.

Me, a Marlin 1894c in .357 with 180 gr bullet works great out to 100 yds

2ndAmFan
October 19, 2010, 09:43 AM
Hi jimmyraythomason: Believe me, I know caliber doesn't guarantee a DRT situation, but I know shot placement makes a big difference and jmho a larger caliber, without getting into sizes that turn deer into instant sausage, decreases the chances of having to chase a wounded animal all over creation, as long as I do my part. Few things can make a hunter feel worse than losing a wounded animal.
Of the 4 deer my friends and I took during the last year, all were DRT. The first 3 fell to 30.06, the last one to an SKS.
None of these shots was more than about 80 yds, not so much because we can't hit anything farther away, but because the terrain where I live is very rocky and brushy with lots of trees, hills and ravines. It's not very common to even see a deer much farther away than that, let alone get a clear shot at it.

jimmyraythomason
October 19, 2010, 09:54 AM
I have helped track heart/lung shot deer over hundreds of yards. Deer with their heart shot out by 30-30 win. and 30.06 that ran almost a 1/4 mile before expiring. I shot one small doe with a 30.06,150grn bullet that completely eviscerated her. I tracked her until it got dark then started to rain so I waited until morning to resume the search. I found her around noon(strictly by chance since the rain had washed away all sign). The shot ,from behind,traveled the full length of the body and ended up in the chest. The heart and lungs were non-existant. The lttle deer had crossed a stream and two barbed wire fences.

2ndAmFan
October 19, 2010, 10:08 AM
Well, I know this goes against what a lot of the experts say, but I try to nail deer in the head, preferably to take out the base of the skull to knock out the central nervous system. This isn't as big a challenge as it sounds when you're within 100 yds of your target. I'm not interested in traipsing around up and down hills and ravines looking for a wounded deer, and in TX, if your deer runs and crosses onto someone else's property you cannot go after it without the owner's permission either. Not a lot of people will give permission since they figure they just have to find the deer and they've got free venison. I've seen too many deer run a few hundred yards or more after being heartshot, so I get close and aim for the head.

jimmyraythomason
October 19, 2010, 10:11 AM
I'm not interested in traipsing around up and down hills and ravines looking for a wounded deer, and in TX, if your deer runs and crosses onto someone else's property you cannot go after it without the owner's permission either. Nor do I. It is also the law here in Alabama (ALL land is posted by law).

jimmyraythomason
October 19, 2010, 10:13 AM
I try to nail deer in the head, preferably to take out the base of the skull to knock out the central nervous system. Excellent spot. All legal calibers(and some non-legal) will give DRT results from such a shot. CNS shots are the only garanteed DRT,regardless of caliber.

Tacbandit
October 19, 2010, 11:09 AM
Quote: from blackops
"And you shouldn't critique any of those errors utilizing "Umm" in a sentence or forgetting the apostrophe in “elses“ (else's).
IMO, a 223 is too light, but considering this is for an 11 year old girl, that's quite understandable. I would recommend utilizing the heaviest bullet and positioning her as close as possible for the shot."

Or maybe forgetting the . in .223 ?

jimmyraythomason
October 19, 2010, 11:13 AM
Or maybe forgetting the . in .223 ?
Why? If this child can shoot it well and the proper deer weight/type bullet is used,I see no problem with this choice. DON'T give the girl a cannon she's too afraid to shoot.

Tacbandit
October 19, 2010, 11:32 AM
Jimmyraythomason... my post was only in reference to the fact that the post I quoted had mistakenly referenced ".223" as "223"
I don't have a problem with that caliber as a deer round...It's not my first choice, but if it's what you have, and it's legal...take your best shot. I was just making the point that we can get a little too critical about things that don't really matter. I'm sure the OP didn't come on here to get grammar lessons...or any of the other posters, either...:scrutiny:

Vlad357
October 19, 2010, 11:40 AM
If your daughter can hit what she shoots at reliably, and you are there for any needed backup shots, go for it. It will be a great experience for her! I started mine out on a .243 and mounted the first buck they shot which they still have on display in their homes many years later. I have used my single shot heavy barreled Rossi .223 with 55 gr Remington Ultramax sps to drop a few deer when the opportunity presented while out coyote hunting. Shots were within about 100 yards right behind the shoulder and while none of the deer were “DRT”, none took more than a few steps before piling up.

jimmyraythomason
October 19, 2010, 11:44 AM
Sorry Tacbandit,I misunderstood your post. I for one don't care about the correct grammar as long as I can understand what's being said.

Tacbandit
October 19, 2010, 11:54 AM
No problem, JRT...I just like to see us keeping it "High Road"....

jimmyraythomason
October 19, 2010, 12:13 PM
My sincere apologies Tacbandit! I read your post yet again and your meaning jumped out at me! I had completely mis-read your comment! I guess I only saw what I was expecting to see and saw it wrong.

d2wing
October 19, 2010, 07:38 PM
My duaghters used a SKS 7.62x39, 30-30 lever action and .243 bolt action. Of those the SKS was hard for them to handle as it was front heavy. The 30-30 worked fine but kicked some, the .243 was ok. An AR wasn't legal then but is now. I used one after shoulder surgery and was happy with it. I am pretty sure they would have liked it best. Low recoil, easy to handle, accurate and in my experience, just as effective as any of those cartridges.

Hangingrock
October 19, 2010, 09:50 PM
Tell you honest the .223 would be a big step up for a lot of people in this neck of the woods. As a kid I recall that the 25-20 (generally considered a varmint and small came cartridge) was used by some of the old timers to take deer. Shot placement often allows what I consider marginal to be acceptable dependent on circumstance.

tommyintx
October 20, 2010, 01:11 AM
Bullet construction and shot placement, combined with velocity are all that really matter. I don't believe there's anything on the planet that could survive a good hit from a 22-250 with a TSX.

Go for the 53 grain TSX. It's very accurate, and the bullet has a great design. I've tested 20+ rounds into water barrels and all had uniform expansion, and 99%+ weight retention.

janobles14
October 20, 2010, 01:16 AM
read the newest Field and Stream. petzel tackles this topic pretty well. in a nutshell he says what everyone here always says...everytime...repeatedly.

tough bullets in higher weights, under 200 yds, placed well = dead deer.

dawson55
October 20, 2010, 10:30 PM
My daughter shot a doe last year at 222 yards. Using a 50 gr tsx. Didnt go anywhere.

Tacbandit
October 21, 2010, 11:08 AM
Again....It's not my preference for a deer caliber, but a capable one, none the less. Many deer have been harvested with .223 rounds in various configuration. It can be done, for sure.

MYREDTAIL
October 22, 2010, 01:50 AM
When in doubt about a 223.win A head shot will alway's do the trick, expecially if your a meat hunter & not worried about, the horne's etc.

Art Eatman
October 22, 2010, 10:43 AM
Since this is the umpteenth go-round on this subject, let's give the poor old horse a rest...

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