[Black Majik]

Just curious.

What are the differences between the Wingmaster Light Contour and the regular wingmasters?

I believe its only the barrel that's different, correct?

If so, what's the difference?

Thanks :)

[Sven]

Dunno, but my barrel is marked light contour, and I love it. 26" and I'm breaking 20-22 out of 25 every round or trap (only have fired 200 shots in my life).

[Black Majik]

Hehe.. thanks Sven,

I guess I'm in the same position as you (didn't want to admit it in my initial post). I also have LC Wingmaster in 28", but I didn't realize it until I came home to clean the gun. So I bought a gun not fully knowing all its features ;)

Im guessing the barrel is lighter in weight than other wingmasters?

Silly me, I actually thought the wood stocks were lighter in color than other wingmasters. At least that's what it looks like on their website. Amazing how I then made myself believe that my shotgun had lighter woodstocks than other Wingmasters... :uhoh: :o

[Dave McCracken]

The Light Contour barrel is the only difference. The difference there is that the barrel is made as in days of yore, before lawyers got involved. The new LC barrel here runs 4 oz lighter,even with Remchokes, than the fine old trap barrel that came on the 870TB. Best guess, an LC barrel runs 6-8 oz lighter than a similar standard barrel with Remchokes of current productions. The thread on comparing 870 barrels has more input on this.

On 870s, the barrels are interchangeable. Not sure about 1100s and 11-87s.

Sven, good on ya.

[Fastlane]

I now have 500 to 600 rounds through my shotgun and I still can't hit the barn with it and that is with me inside the barn. Sven is breaking 20 ot of 25. I am going to take up a new hobby mabe knitting ant suggestions. :)

[sm]

I'm partial to certain shades of green and gray...could use a new scarf to go with my waxed cotton coat. Same color sceheme for pot holders...Truck interior is blue cloth...seat covers might be nice...:D

Fastlane, I know you have checked archives, you have BA/UU/R...so yell out if you have a question.

If you have Brister's Book, that might help. It may hard to find any work by Misseldine , but that's whom I read and I still think his methods are sound. I do admit I'm not as familar with the new authors/shooters.

Get a smaller barn...aim small, miss small .;)

Seriously we will help best we can. First thng comes to mind is gun fit. With an uloaded gun and eyes closed, using proper techninique ( gun to face) mount the gun 3 times on the 3rd time open your eyes...what do you see?

If you are 'seeing' down the rib straight and true that is good. If "seeing" the back end of receiver then the comb is too "low" and you will raise your head to compensate..."look up and see a bad shot". It is probably something just minor that is giving you a hard time. Just one example, but you get the idea.


Sven, nice shooting sir!

[Fastlane]

Yes, I BA/UU/R and do a lot of research on this site. I realy enjoy it here and appreciate all the help that I receive. I think most of my problem is with my shotgun. Ok everybody can stop laughing now. :). I have an 870P that is my primary HD weapon. My house has very narrow hallways so the 870 is almost perfect for what I purchased it for. But with a 7 pound triger pull and 18" barrel it is not so perfect for trap. So I am looking for a used 870, found a nice one for $300.00 plus tax. I might buy that one but still looking.

[sm]

Fastlane,
I would consider trigger pull needs to be less, say around 4 #, would help right off. Good triggers do make a lot difference as you know.

Now getting another SG is always good. :) You know this, but for those that may not, with a longer bbl the "apparent lead" is shorter. If the loads are the same and the short and long bbl pattern the same ( bore/choke) then it is easier to see hits many times becasue of less apparent lead.

IF the trap range will allow and you have patterened the gun for effective range see if you can gain permission to get closer to trap house. OR hit the skeet field and ask permisson to shoot Low 7 for a bit. To get the "feel" of the gun and targets. When you start hitting consistanty the old human computer will kick in and the computer will remember what it did for future targets. Then move to High 1 and repeat. Many times just repeptition of powdered target instills that confidence, and re-set the old human computer.

I've shot some trap,but more skeet,5 stand,and S/C,and yes I've done so with 18.5 bbl. I prefer 28" bbls on all SGs for hunting, clays and all. Even in O/U , SXS, it's what I like as far a balance and all.

The truth is I can mount and swing a 30 -32" bbl just as fast and smooth, as anyone with a short tube... usually faster and for darn sure smoother, only because I have shot a few shells downrange.

HD is a different application I know, but once the hits start coming the good shooter can use short or long tubes, just longer may get him there quicker. That is why an old trap /skeet shooter can transition quicker to a short tube...you get to point you can shoot darn near anything and make it work.

Hey main thing is your getting out and may get another SG. Trigger job and re-visit that pattern board...it's something simple , it's jsut remembering all this simple stuff and at the same time that gets me into trouble. :p

[Fastlane]

Thanks for all of the information. I will put it to good use. :) Still need a 2nd shotgun. Just because... :)

[Black Majik]

Thanks Dave for clearing up the Light Contour issue. Seems like this discussion has become quite informative.

Keep em' coming, its a good read :)

[Dave McCracken]

Work on, Fastlane. You've barely started...

Suggestion, read the thread on Why We Miss. Most common reasons are stopping the swing, lifting the head, misreading the line and flinching in its myriad forms. Flinching 101 shall be along shortly.

Use the lightest loads you can find, take it one step at a time.

And, I'm not going to try to talk you out of getting another 870, perish the thought! But, your first move should be getting 3 lbs or so honed off that trigger by a qualified smith. NOBODY shoots their best with a 7 lb trigger. And that's ANY kind of shotgunning.

You're welcome, BM. Glad to help.

[Fastlane]

Dave on an HD weapon do you want a light trigger pull? It is a very smooth trigger with no creep. Being new to shooting I would hate to have a shot go off before I want it to.

[Black Majik]

Yeah, fastlane, might wanna get a new 870 w/ a longer barrel...


May we suggest 870.... Wingmaster.... Light Contour?... :p


Hell we can start a WM LC club then.. :neener:

just joking. :)

[sm]

LOL !
I couldn't blame you if you did start a club.

Fastlane, on the trigger , I appreciate your concerns, nothing wrong with thinking things through. A tough, hard, gritty trigger can be used, however, using the human computer again, in learning the "awful trigger " impedes the learning process. You will find the same principle applied to a Handgun for CCW. Yes we want a crisp trigger, we want it "safe" ( 1.5# triggers only belong on target guns, no carry or defensive stuff). Naturally we keep fingers out of the trigger guard-correct?

The awful triggers causes one to jerk, flinch, and if that is not bad enough there is a millisecond of delay anyway b/t target aquired and pulling...in this time the target is perhaps moving, so one ends up shooting where it "was" and not where It "is" ( SGs on moving targets I only focus on leading edge...I don't care about the rest, and I sure don't care where it has been...I'm swinging through to where it will "be", when my shotstring arrives). All these milliseconds add up. Now perhaps the target is still but I'm having to shoot on the move? Same delay of trigger and locktime applies. I don't want a delay while I'm running for cover,or, easing around the corner to provide cover for family membrs seeking cover -not concealment. It can get serious quick.

With a good clean crisp 4 # triggers even in a defensive situation, the advantages adds up. A very smooth aquisition, finger THEN goes into trigger guard, and the human computer does not have anything to deter/impede the sucess of hitting what intended. The subconcious will NOT delay with "long, hard, creepy, gritty..." we don't have time for it...we don't want it.

It comes with practice and training,its that simple. Dave has great 101s that address these practices and training. Gun fit, includes trigger to me. Once the gun becomes fitted it is better and extension of the shooter. I harp on gun fit, and not just shotguns, but in a "serious situation" I want things as simple and effective as can be. It is said that 10% of shooting is physical, the gun itself, FIT, ammo reliable everytime in that gun, even the type of shoes, vest...etc. 90% is mental ( training and practice. Take care of physical, get it right and leave the darn thing alone first thing. Then BA/UU/R ( practice and train.

Keep switching stuff, adding doo-dads and whatnots , especially while learning will really really slow one down,or get them dead. Get it right (physical) and leave it alone. That 90% stuff will keep you alive.

After one expends a bunch of rounds it is easier to transition. I said 'easier',... look a how much time is spent to train and "re-program" LEO, and such when a new platform, or even something as simple as a sidesaddle is put to use.

Dave posted pics of his SGs no long ago, HD, SD, "Serious Situations" Trap, skeet, hunting...take a peek, you might be surprised as to what you see. Our esteemed mod has BTDT and more experience and knowledge ( as do many members on this forum) than I have in my pinky finger.

" Repeptition becomes habit-habit becomes faith".

[Dave McCracken]

Fastlane, H*LL yes! A heavy, nasty trigger is no safe substitute for good trigger discipline.

One of the good things about the BA/UU/R approach is one learns good trigger discipline IF the training is decent.

Smooth and creepless is nice, but light is important also. I'd rather have one crisp and heavy than light and nasty, but light and crisp is attainable.

BM, the LC barrel is a definite advantage for most folks, but having the extra weight of the standard barrel may be a good idea for some things. Waterfowling, turkey, deer with buck, etc, come to mind.

[Black Majik]

BM, the LC barrel is a definite advantage for most folks, but having the extra weight of the standard barrel may be a good idea for some things. Waterfowling, turkey, deer with buck, etc, come to mind.

Honestly to tell ya the truth, I still find my shotgun to be a little heavy to shoot extensively. But I still shoot somewhat average into the 20's on the trap field. I've yet to try it out on the skeet range.

I guess its a small payoff though, I still shoot well with it so I guess that's all that matters. I just see it as the weight absorbing the recoil, which w/ light target loads the shotgun recoils just as much as my dad's 20 ga. 686 onyx pro. Both on light target loads. But his gun feels significantly lighter also @ 6.3 lbs.

[Dave McCracken]

Your 870 should run about 7 lbs or a few oz more. If it still feels heavy after a few more trips to the range, practice mounting at home. sm's 25 at first, add more as you go is good advice.

Or, start off the day with free weights. 5-10 lbs weights for curls, lots of reps. Go slow and build up.

[Black Majik]

LOL.

The 28" LC weighs in @ 7 lbs. But I guess compared to my dad's gun it feels significantly heavier. No problem though, doesn't bother me that much to shoot.

Its just too fun that I forget about it :)

[Fastlane]

Looks like my 870P will have a trigger job done. Will have them adjust it to 4 pounds. Thanks again for all input.

[Dave McCracken]

A coupla things..

First, thank you sm, we were writing about the same time and I just noted your post.

S'funny, outside of some DA pulls on revolvers, most triggers fall into 3.5 to 4.5 lbs here, at least on the serious stuff. One ML goes 2, the 94 goes 5 something.

Next,BM, use yours more and the weight will become just right. I don't adapt all that well to large weight changes, another reason I shun the subguages.

Fastlane, factory specs run 3 1/2 to 6 lbs. 4 is very workable, 3 3/4 or 3 1/2 are gifts of great worth. Do yourself a favor. Go through a COF or shoot a round of trap, skeet, etc. Get the trigger done, then repeat the COF or round a few times. Bet you'll grin and say something like "Eureka!!"...

[Fastlane]

Thank Dave will take your advice. But a couple more question what is COF and what is the best way to determine trigger pull? The scale I used out of my fish tackle box is not that accurate. So i'm not sure that my trigger pull is really 7 pounds. Again thanks everyone for your help.

[Dave McCracken]

Course Of Fire is what COF means here, Fastlane.

My method of measuring triggers is something like this. MAKE SURE THE SHOTGUN IS EMPTY FIRST,then...

Take a can and tie some string to it, about 18" oughta be plenty. Make an S shaped hook from a coat hanger or similar wire. Tie the hook to the other end. Set the hook on the trigger and let the can dangle. Add weight until the hammer drops. Weigh the whole thing on a kitchen scale and write down the weight. Repeat a couple times and take an average.

HTH....

[Fastlane]

Sounds good thank you..