I don't understand people like this.


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hometheaterman
October 11, 2010, 01:42 PM
I'm sure you all have friends like this too. Anyway, it seems like I often have either friends, or people that I talk to every once in a while that run out of money and have to sell guns. Every time I ask about buying them, they give me an almost new price. For example a friend had a Remington 710 with a $50 scope he had added to replace the factory scope. He wanted $300 for it and finally told me he would take $250. I told him I'd give him $150 which I thought was more than fair for a Remington 710. He told me no, that if he couldn't get close to what he had in it, he'd just sell it to a gun shop. Now keep in mind that often times gun shops want to give him about 1/3 of what I am offering. So instead of him making more off of it, and me getting an okay price, he'd rather sell it to a gun shop for 1/3 of the price I offered, and me not get it for a price that according to him "is a lot less than it's worth". This is just one instance. I have 2 or 3 friends that constantly do this. They get ripped off all of the time by shops, but refuse to sell to me, or any other person that wants to buy it, unless they want to pay near retail for it. They'd rather get 1/3 of what we are offering than sell it to me or anyone else for a pretty good price for both of us.

The other thing one of the guys is famous for doing is refusing to sell the gun to me, or anyone else for a fair price, yet he will trade it with his local "ffl" buddy and get totally ripped off. Like for example he traded a Ruger 44 magnum carbine lever action in perfect shape straight across for a NEF single shot .243 with a $30 Tasco from Walmart. The gun is full of rust, scratches on the stock, and just looks plain worn out and beat to hell. I wouldn't have given $100 for the .243 single shot. Yet he traded a $600 gun for it. He could have just sold me the gun for $450-500, and gone and bought a brand new NEF single shot and still had $150-200 in his pocket. Yet for some reason he refuses to do this, but is always eager to trade this "ffl" and get ripped off.


Anyone else run into people like this? If any of you are like this can you explain why? I just don't get it. I'd want to get the most money I could get for something, and I wouldn't care if it was the shop, or a person that got a deal.

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TheWarhammer
October 11, 2010, 01:49 PM
It's pride, plain and simple. They don't really want to give up the gun, and selling it to someone they know would be a constant reminder. Even though they get hosed by the gun shop, they don't have to hear about how much fun their friend had at the range with THEIR gun.

mbogo
October 11, 2010, 01:52 PM
They just cannot stand the thought of you enjoying their gun.

Offer to go with them to the gun store next time, and then discreetly offer him $25 more than what the gun store offers him.

mbogo

fastbolt
October 11, 2010, 01:52 PM
The pride & constant reminder thing? That could be quite likely.

Also, sometimes it's simply best not to do business with many friends.

Good friends, okay. Casual friends, not so much.

As you age you can really start to tell the difference between them.

TexasGunbie
October 11, 2010, 01:55 PM
Some people have rules about not selling anything to friends.

Last time I sold a car to my friend, he spread rumors about how I don't change oil, and I switched out the brake pads etc... Keep in mind this is no race car, just a good old 2005 Toyota Corolla, so I don't gain anything from swapping out anything from this car... But yeah, from now on, I rather sell to dealer or trade it than sell to a friend.

If you have a lot of friends that won't sell things to you, then maybe you appear to them to be someone that will give them trouble down the road?? Just a thought, means nothing more :).

hardworker
October 11, 2010, 01:55 PM
If they're good friends tell them you'll buy it from them and let them buy it back from you for exactly what you paid them for it when they get the cash.

hometheaterman
October 11, 2010, 01:59 PM
Well, I have several friends in the same group that will sell stuff to me so I don't think it's that none of them want to do business with me. Unfortunately, most of them are the ones that don't waste their money, so don't need to sell stuff quickly at good prices. The others always try to sell their stuff to me before going to a gun shop, but they always want me to pay near retail of a new item, for a used one, which I'm not going to do. So instead of selling it to me cheaper, they sell it to a gun or pawn shop. It's not just me though, a couple of the other guys in the group we hunt with are the same way as me and would love to pick up some of these things, but they won't sell them to them either unless they want to pay near retail.

CoRoMo
October 11, 2010, 02:04 PM
Yep. A guy I used to work with wanted out of his Glock. Not really the type of person that I call 'my friend'. I told him I'd give him $400 for it, if he couldn't sell it for the price he was asking. I think he wanted five or six hundred dollars for it back then. He said that he'd rather hock it than to sell it for that. I told him not to expect $400 from a pawn shop. He either didn't believe me, or he didn't care, so he hocked it for less.

Same guy wanted to sell the late 90's Camaro that he'd had since he was 16. He wanted retail price, but I told him that if he couldn't get that for it, call me because I will definitely give him $X,XXX (I don't remember the offer). He ended up selling it for a good bit less than I was offering.

After both of these occasions, I followed up with him to see where we were at in regards to the items he wanted to sell. After he told me that he had sold each, and then the prices he'd gotten, I asked why he didn't just take my offers, which were higher. He stammered around in search of a thought, and ultimately had no answer for me.

Some people.

hometheaterman
October 11, 2010, 02:08 PM
That's pretty much exactly the type of things I've experienced.

ny32182
October 11, 2010, 02:14 PM
If these folks' money habits are bad enough to where they are regularly buying guns and then "running out of money" to the point where they have to sell the gun to buy ramen noodles, then I don't know why you'd expect them to be any smarter about it selling them on the back end.

I've bought from, and sold to my friends. If anything it may be one of the only cases where you probably get to actually shoot it before you buy. I consider it just like any other "used stuff" deal though, after the transaction is complete I wouldn't hassle or expect to be hassled about any issues that could potentially come up down the road. If I had a "friend" do that I would not do any more deals with them.

Guillermo
October 11, 2010, 02:14 PM
I have had a friend not want to sell me a gun for different reasons.

One fellow and I were in a pawn shop. He saw a like-new 3 inch J frame and was offered 320 out the door.

I told him that if he didn't take it, I would. (around here that gun is 425 minimum). He was not so sure because he was unfamiliar with J frame prices.

He will not sell it to me because he can sell it for a nice profit but would feel bad about making money on me.

chevyman097
October 11, 2010, 02:20 PM
I would imagine some people choose to sell it at a cheaper price out of spite. The "well if they wont give me what I want they wont get it at all, Ill show them" attitude.

Would hardly call them friends.

CoRoMo
October 11, 2010, 02:23 PM
Or they just can't admit that they are/were wrong.

RX-178
October 11, 2010, 02:25 PM
It's a simple reason, and I don't mean this as an insult to anybody involved.

Some people just do not know how to conduct business with other people. That's the plain truth. People who are content with being employees, with their livelihood given to them by an employer. There's nothing WRONG with that, and I'm certainly not trying to imply that there is. It's just the fact that these people generally never have had, and never will have experiences on how to conduct a business transaction with another person.

These people, so as to make themselves feel more competent, impose upon themselves strict and often nonsensical codes of conduct for selling an item, or even worse, try to apply typical social stigmas to it.

The first of these, and what most of you are encountering, is the notion that if you can't come to an agreement with a person the first time, it's somehow shameful or improper to approach them again.

CoRoMo
October 11, 2010, 02:33 PM
...if you can't come to an agreement with a person the first time, it's somehow shameful ... to approach them again.
The nail's head, right there.

Tacbandit
October 11, 2010, 02:40 PM
Deleted...

Tilos
October 11, 2010, 02:41 PM
What hardworker said^;
I've been doing this with the same circle of gun friends for years.
One guy's wife likes to run up debt, unknown to him, until the bill collectors start calling.
I've bought(and sold back) the same gun(s) with him many times.

skipbadger
October 11, 2010, 03:02 PM
It's a simple reason, and I don't mean this as an insult to anybody involved.

Some people just do not know how to conduct business with other people. That's the plain truth. People who are content with being employees, with their livelihood given to them by an employer. There's nothing WRONG with that, and I'm certainly not trying to imply that there is. It's just the fact that these people generally never have had, and never will have experiences on how to conduct a business transaction with another person.

These people, so as to make themselves feel more competent, impose upon themselves strict and often nonsensical codes of conduct for selling an item, or even worse, try to apply typical social stigmas to it.

The first of these, and what most of you are encountering, is the notion that if you can't come to an agreement with a person the first time, it's somehow shameful or improper to approach them again.
This^^^

I see it all the time in enterprise wide, corporate sales. Low level employees think someone has to win and someone has to lose. And if they don't think they are winning, they won't play, even if it means selling for less (or paying more) somewhere else.

Folks smart enough to understand that it is best to strive for a win/win deal usually rise up the ranks of companies (and life). Others try so hard to "stick it to the man" that they end up sticking it to themselves.

youngda9
October 11, 2010, 03:05 PM
If these folks' money habits are bad enough to where they are regularly buying guns and then "running out of money" to the point where they have to sell the gun to buy ramen noodles, then I don't know why you'd expect them to be any smarter about it selling them on the back end.

^^ THIS.

Poor decisions chasing poor decisions.

They don't sound vary smart to me.

Russ Jackson
October 11, 2010, 03:19 PM
Here is how I handle it. We both go to the gun shop. Clerk gives him a price and I would add 10%. Or you can loan him 10% less than they offerd him and tell him the gun is yours in 60 days if he doesn't pay you back by then. I use similar methods to this with some of my sub contractors. I got sick of loaning them money. Now I have a few guns and a couple guitars....Russ

Jonah71
October 11, 2010, 03:20 PM
I have a couple of friends who are always complimenting me on my old revolvers and don't seem to understand what " not for sale" means. So after they refuse to listen, I sometimes ask a lot more than a fair price knowing they won't spend that much. I'm always amazed to hear them say, "Well you don't want to sell that very bad do you?" !!

hometheaterman
October 11, 2010, 03:29 PM
Well, that's often not the case with what I'm talking about as it's not me approaching them to purchase their gun, scope, or other item. It's them approaching me saying they need money and have to sell it.

I did have one friend that did come back to me after a few months and agree on the price I'd initially offered him. It was a more than fair offer as I really wanted his item, and I told him long before he ever had to sell it that I wanted it if he ever went to sell it. He called me the first time he needed money and tried to get me to come up about $75 from what I wanted to pay. I told him nope. About a month later he called me and told me he needed money again and he would take my offer. That's about the only time I've had that happen. I have one other friend that sometimes tells me what he needs to sell if I'm around.

The rest of them either don't want to deal at all like the ones mentioned above, or they are like me and don't blow their money on a bunch of crap they don't need and then have to sell off all of their stuff to pay bills.

SharpsDressedMan
October 11, 2010, 03:45 PM
It's great to be able to sell or buy a gun from a friend, with the stipulation to "if ever" buy it back for the same price...that is a friend helping a friend, EXCEPT......when you never get a chance to buy it back. Either the friend keeps it, or sells it before you ever get the money again. I have been involved in many friend gun deals, and often there is a bit of a rub. Either the friend low balls you, or buys it and sells it for a quick profit, instead of pointing you to the deal. Or they buy it and the pain begins when you realize you should have kept it, and you can't for Adam talk them into selling it back. I had a neighbor sell a bunch of guns, most of his favorites, in a quick-get-cash thing to bail out his wife's gambling. I told him I didn't have the money, but bought them anyway, and told him I would probably sell them. So many months later, he particularly wanted an EAA Witness .45 Compact back, that I had sold to my son-in-law for the "good deal" price. SIL didn't want to sell, and the neighbor was bummed. Sometimes it might just be better to let a friend get beat up by the pawn shop or gunshop.

MrOldLude
October 11, 2010, 03:47 PM
The common thread I'm seeing is that you people have lousy "friends."

russ69
October 11, 2010, 03:59 PM
A buddy of mine bought a box of bullets. He tried them and didn't like them so he asked me if I wanted them. Sure, I'll take them. I pay the price marked on the box, then he adds up the sales tax! Geese, I was doing him a favor because I thought I might use them.
The poor fellow doesn't really know the value of a friend vs. the value of an item. His life is filled with transactions that have gone "wrong".

Thanx, Russ

Corporal K
October 11, 2010, 04:01 PM
I offered to buy my buddy's 92F for $450. He declined but sold it a year or so later for $380.

However shortly after he declined my offer, I bought a 92F that was in much better condition than his for $450.

I came out ahead, but I don't rub it in. I just always found that little exchange to be odd.

Coal Dragger
October 11, 2010, 04:05 PM
Life is too short to spend hanging around with stupid people. Get a new friend.

jnyork
October 11, 2010, 04:14 PM
[QUOTLife is too short to spend hanging around with stupid people. Get a new friendE][/QUOTE]

What he said. You do not have friends if that is how they are, you just have acquaintances.

Rusty Shackleford
October 11, 2010, 04:18 PM
I have a buddy who's done EXACTLY that. He needed money really bad one time, and had a nice Remington 870 that he was thinking of selling. When he told me the pawn shop offered him a $65 loan with the gun as collateral, I almost choked on my coffee!

This thing was basically new! He didn't even have a whole box of shells through it! I told him I'd buy it for more than twice that, but he wouldn't do it.

I told him later that I was kind of offended that he wouldn't sell it to a close friend and make more money, and instead practically GAVE it to a pawn shop. He told me that at the time, he thought he could go back to the shop after he got his paycheck to get it back. Of course he was so behind on other bills that he didn't have enough money to finish paying his other obligations when the paycheck came... so the pawn shop got to keep his LNIB 870 for $65...

I told him that if he had sold it to me, he could have bought it back whenever he felt like it. Instead, he let the pawn shop hold it as collateral on a two week loan. When he couldn't pay them back in two weeks they kept his 870.

You can't fix stupid. No matter how hard you try. People who are ALWAYS in financial shape like that are just not good with finances. Most of them will keep getting suckered like that for the rest of their lives.

...he had the gall to ask me to cosign on a loan a few weeks ago for a new car. I told him I knew how he was with money and that I couldn't do it.

Sauer Grapes
October 11, 2010, 06:37 PM
I guess I'm lucky, none of my REAL friends are into guns. All of my casual friends are from the gun club. If they have something to sell or I have something to sell, we haggle prices, if it doean't happen, no big deal.

If one of the guys wants NIB price I just say, no thanks. I know they aren't going to come down to where they need to be.

One guy at the club was selling a LNIB M&P9. He was asking exactly what he paid for it with tax. I told him in a polite way, you know, I can buy that new for about $90.00 less than you want. He bought it from a shop that iis notoriously high on their prices.

He's a nice enough guy, but he always thinks he's right and everybody else is being unreasonable.

hemiram
October 11, 2010, 07:12 PM
I used to have a friend who I, against my better judgement, loaned money to, holding a almost new Kimber custom 1911 as collateral for the loan. The agreement was if he didn't pay me the $700 I loaned him in 3 months, it was mine, and I would sell it, as I have no fondness for the 1911 platform, and Kimbers on top of it. Three months later, I needed the money for taxes, and I called him and he didn't have anything, not even $20, so I went ahead and sold it to a local guy, a mutual aquaintance, for $1000. I was doing my "friend" a favor, and he got super PO'ed when it got back to him I had made money on the deal. Now, if someone needs money, I either buy something and tell them I'm going to sell it, or if it's a good friend, I just give it to them and tell them to pay me when they can. So far, no bad feelings and I've gotten every penny back, eventually.

oneounceload
October 11, 2010, 07:49 PM
They get ripped off all of the time by shops

That has NEVER happened to your friends - not if they WILLINGLY sold their gun for what they considered to be a fair price - same thing regarding "gouging" - if two people agree on the "mutual consideration". then neither got ripped off - just because YOU do not think it is a good deal for them, doesn't mean they do think it is

stchman
October 11, 2010, 07:56 PM
I have a buddy that sells his guns without even giving me the opportunity to buy them.

VinnAY
October 11, 2010, 08:04 PM
And it could always be that people are just trying to nicely dodge you if they happen to believe, as I do, that business transactions between friends are a recipe for disaster at some point. I don't sell amongst friends, its bad business, if you will. And I tell them that.
If everyone else did so, perhaps we'd not have a thread about why Johnny won't sell me his gun but acts all coy about it.

lwknight
October 11, 2010, 10:16 PM
Its not just guns!
There was a fellow comrade firefighter that had a good plow who let me use it in my garden. He had no use for it at all but wanted it back home at the end of the day so I had to work hard all day. Thats all well and good so far.

When I returned the plow I told him that I wanted to buy it if he ever wanted to sell it. He said " Nope , its not for sale! ) Less than 2 weeks later , I saw his plow at a tractor dealers lot and confirmed that it was the same plow.

I would have given a good price for the plow and I know that the dealer did not give him squat because the dealer had it for sale for just over what I offered in the first place.

I got no use for that guy after that. I'm still mad every time I remember it.

Hanzo581
October 11, 2010, 10:25 PM
No offense but your friends don't sound very smart. And if they were your "friend" they would give you the opportunity to buy first if they knew you were an enthusiast.

grymph
October 11, 2010, 10:43 PM
Some people have rules about not selling anything to friends.

Last time I sold a car to my friend, he spread rumors about how I don't change oil, and I switched out the brake pads etc... Keep in mind this is no race car, just a good old 2005 Toyota Corolla, so I don't gain anything from swapping out anything from this car... But yeah, from now on, I rather sell to dealer or trade it than sell to a friend.

If you have a lot of friends that won't sell things to you, then maybe you appear to them to be someone that will give them trouble down the road?? Just a thought, means nothing more .
__________________

I agree completely with this response. My wife wanted to sell our house to a lady she works with. This woman is one of her bosses. I have no idea why she would want to sell it to her because the woman is a huge B...h. Anyways, we did and i know that the first thing that does wrong with the place is going to be blamed on us. Our supposed neglect or wear and tear. I worry about my wifes job all the time. If she isn't happy there for whatever reason, her marriage, the kids, things that could be unrelated, it could even subconsciously be taken out on my wife.

TNboy
October 11, 2010, 10:47 PM
Most of you sound like you have really crappy friends. I've ditched all of those.

grymph
October 11, 2010, 11:42 PM
oops

mdug59
October 12, 2010, 12:22 AM
Its probably lead poisoning...effects the brain

Prion
October 12, 2010, 08:41 AM
I just went to the gunshop and asked what they would give me, granted they're fair, and sold it to my buddy at that price.

Glad he has use of it and glad to give him a good deal.

I'd rather get less and sell it to a friend.

Those other guys don't sound like great friends, more like petty scrooges at best.

kwelz
October 12, 2010, 09:25 AM
No matter how hard we try to change it, the human mind is not always logical. Pride often gets in the way.

mack
October 12, 2010, 11:03 AM
I have people I do business with and then I have friends - they are not the same and never will be. If a friend needs money, I don't buy something from him or loan him the money - if I have it - I give him the money without expectation that I will ever be repaid - if he needed money and I knew about it he would not have to ask for it - I would give it without his having to ask - and a friend would do the same for me, though I would never ask or expect them to do so. There is a difference between family and friends and business - I never do business with family or friends. If a friend insisted on wanting to sell me a possession like a firearm because they needed the money and wouldn't take it otherwise - the only way I would do it - would be to pay their asking price - and then they would recieve their gun back as a gift from me.

natman
October 12, 2010, 11:52 AM
I'm sure you all have friends like this too. Anyway, it seems like I often have either friends, or people that I talk to every once in a while that run out of money and have to sell guns. Every time I ask about buying them, they give me an almost new price. For example a friend had a Remington 710 with a $50 scope he had added to replace the factory scope. He wanted $300 for it and finally told me he would take $250. I told him I'd give him $150 which I thought was more than fair for a Remington 710. He told me no, that if he couldn't get close to what he had in it, he'd just sell it to a gun shop.

Look at the bright side. If your friend had said yes, you would now own a Remington 710.

You're better off.

Ronsch
October 12, 2010, 12:07 PM
I have come to a hard and fast rule over the last 30 odd years of having my own money (since I started working at 14)...I just do not loan, trade, or buy from friends, no matter how good the deal. It is not worth the potential hard feelings that could crop up later.

If they want to do business, fine, but I keep friendship totally out of it.

hometheaterman
October 12, 2010, 12:51 PM
Yea, that's why I wasn't too bothered by that, as I really don't need a Remington 710, but this happens quite often and sometimes they are selling something a lot nicer than a 710.

CoRoMo
October 12, 2010, 01:03 PM
The few times that I've been offered an unwanted gun from a family member, or just someone that I know (as I posted earlier), I also didn't really want the gun(s) bad enough to pay anything close to the market value. I most always will just tell them to get some quotes from a few pawn shops, and I will out-bid the highest of those.

For the family members who've tried to sell me a gun or two, I've explained that simply HAVING the gun in their collection, might be worth more than the price that they will get for it. For example, they want to sell an old, but working, .38 revolver for $200, but it really isn't going to bring more than $100, unless they can sucker someone into it. I believe it's worth more to just hang onto, than to get rid of it for something like $80.

otcconan
October 12, 2010, 01:17 PM
Well, the saying goes, if you loan money to a friend you will lose both.
I reckon the same goes with buying their things from them.

Now, my two brothers have an arrangement. Older brother sold off all of his guns (because he got married and had kids and his wife didn't want them around) to my younger brother with the understanding he could buy them back at any time, and with the understanding they would keep them at my mother's farm, where both would have full access to them.

That worked out well, but then again, brothers are a little more than friends.

bannockburn
October 12, 2010, 07:47 PM
Whenever I made a deal with a friend about buying, selling, or trading guns, we have always agreed to the right of first refusal. It simply means that if one of us, at some future time wanted to sell or trade the gun, it would have to be offered first to the previous owner. Then if he decided he didn't want it back (for whatever reason), it was okay to sell or trade it with someone else. It's always work fine in every transaction that I have done this way, and I still have all my friends.

hemiram
October 14, 2010, 07:30 AM
My cousin had a 1970 Roadrunner that looked like it just came off the lot. When he was talking about joining the Navy, I told him to call me when he was going to sell it, that I wanted first chance at buying it. His cars always looked brand new, even after many years. It was black with the base 383 4 Barrel. In 1973, it had 10,000 miles on it, and was, as always, perfect, inside and out.

I had heard from his dad that he was joining up and was about to go off for training, and I expected to get called, but all of a sudden, a guy I went to school with showed up driving it. As soon as I saw it, I knew my cousin had screwed me over. I called him up, and he said he just "forgot", even though his dad had mentioned it just a few days before he sold it. To this day, I give him crap about it. I guess he really did forget, but I don't see how it's possible.

jl1966
October 14, 2010, 11:50 AM
Some people are just stupid, no way around it. I am not rich by any means, but I try to be smart about money, and dealings involving it. It amazes me how stupid some people are about finances. Buying stuff they can't afford, then selling it for a loss. I sometimes trade guns with friends, coworkers and aquaintances, assuming they arte reputable, and I dont think they are gonna get in trouble with it. My rules are these.
They set the asking price. If it is to high, I say thanks and walk away, offering to talk the gun around to help them sell it.
If the price is good I seal the deal as soon as possible, after asking them if they are sure they want to sell it.
Tell them up front all sales are final. Too bad if you change your mind tomorrow.
Deal in cash, I appreciate it, and figure others do as well.
Once the deal is done, the item is my property, to do with as I please. Sell, keep, trade, or sell back to them at a higher price than I paid
Be above board and honest, no tricks or misleading tactics, straight up dealing. Usually no hard feelings, and hey if there are, and you did your best to be straight, so what?

doc2rn
October 14, 2010, 12:26 PM
Friends + $$ = trouble

Bottom line someone will always have hard feelings and its best to just avoid these types of situations.

jpwilly
October 15, 2010, 02:04 AM
Let me speculate that the people being discussed are foolish and will probably continue to make poor choices that may cause severe frustration for you due to the lack of judgment especially because you weren't there to capitalize on it.

My experiences with family, friends, co workers, and even complete strangers has been quite different and very positive! I've been blessed.

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