[Vector]

I use to own a compact .45 ACP for my primary CC, and even though it was not the easiest to conceal, I made do.
Now all my weapons are too large for casual clothing in a warm climate, so I'm thinking of getting something smaller. While a 9mm is a decent weapon(already have one), I'm thinking of getting a larger caliber for greater stopping power, yet I need to keep it small enough for casual clothing.

So what is the collective knowledge/opinion of the THR CCW crowd?

[DoubleTapDrew]

You may want to look into the Kahr PM series. They make very small carry guns in 9mm, .40 and .45.
Here's a link to the .45 on their website: http://www.kahr.com/PA-1_45acp_pm.html

[avs11054]

I've read a lot of posts about bigger guns being hard to conceal. I live in phoenix where 90% of the days I wear a t shirt when I go out. I'm 5'9, 180 lbs, and I carry a glock 22. I use a leather galco iwb holster, and wear it at the back of my pants. The only time it ever shows is if I have to bend down to pick up something. Other than that, I have no problem keeping it concealed. And obviously a 40 cal with a 15 rd mag has no stopping power issues or lack of ammo issues either

[snubbies]

Might try the COLT New Agent in 45 ACP

[Afterfire]

Have you considered a .357 snubby, powerful and concealable.

[DeepSouth]

KAHR PM45

I love mine, carry it everyday in my pocket.

http://i313.photobucket.com/albums/ll388/hsmom22boys/Billys00/MyFamily366.jpg?t=1286986528

[VinnAY]

XDm is a fantastic weapon but the handle given the ammo capacity is IMO tougher to conceal. It can be worked with but I prefer a 5" 1911 for the grip size/angle, just feels better. I do still carry my XDm though, I really care little if it prints a bit.

[9mmepiphany]

I would think the Kahr PM45 would be your obvious choice...for about $250 less, you could look at the CW45 if the extra .5" each way isn't an issue for you.

I would pick the Kahr over the sub-compact 1911 for reliability and over the revolver for thinnest and controlability

[Vector]

I would think the Kahr PM45 would be your obvious choice...for about $250 less, you could look at the CW45 if the extra .5" each way isn't an issue for you.

I would pick the Kahr over the sub-compact 1911 for reliability and over the revolver for thinnest and controlability
I know very little about Kahr, but someone locally suggested a .40 by them, and someone else who overheard jumped on them saying "Kahrs were crap" and known to have jamming issues. They also said .40 ammo was more expensive and harder to find. Needless to say they were very opinionated, but not having knowledge to counter it, I've had a seed of doubt placed about Kahr.

[Corporal K]

I carry a Glock 23 in a Cobra belt holster. It's been a great rig for me. It concealed well under a long untucked t-shirt or polo shirt. I run alongside my kids while they're on their bikes and it hardly moves. 13+1 of .40

[brboyer]

I use to own a compact .45 ACP for my primary CC, and even though it was not the easiest to conceal, I made do.
Now all my weapons are too large for casual clothing in a warm climate, so I'm thinking of getting something smaller. While a 9mm is a decent weapon(already have one), I'm thinking of getting a larger caliber for greater stopping power, yet I need to keep it small enough for casual clothing.

So what is the collective knowledge/opinion of the THR CCW crowd?

Now all my weapons are too large for casual clothing in a warm climate
Then you're probably doing it wrong.

I'm thinking of getting a larger caliber for greater stopping power

9mm is a perfectly capable SD round.

[Mudinyeri]

I've read a lot of posts about bigger guns being hard to conceal. I live in phoenix where 90% of the days I wear a t shirt when I go out. I'm 5'9, 180 lbs, and I carry a glock 22. I use a leather galco iwb holster, and wear it at the back of my pants. The only time it ever shows is if I have to bend down to pick up something. Other than that, I have no problem keeping it concealed. And obviously a 40 cal with a 15 rd mag has no stopping power issues or lack of ammo issues either
I see this a lot too. While I don't live in Phoenix I do like Under Armour Heat Gear T-shirts (the looser-fitting ones, not the skin-tight stuff). The fabric is very light and tends to drape much more than the average cotton T-shirt. With that said, I have concealed a full-size pistol in a CrossBreed SuperTuck holster under such a shirt on many occasions.

When I say "full-size" I mean one of the following:

Springfield XD45 Tactical
Springfield XDm 9mm 4.5
Springfield XD40 Service
Glock 19 (OK, maybe this one isn't 'full-size')

I'm 5' 10" and about 170. What am I doing right that these people are doing wrong?

[Vector]

Then you're probably doing it wrong.



9mm is a perfectly capable SD round.
Your post is suppose to help in what way?
I clearly said I do not find my current handguns to be concealable enough in the warm weather, yet you say I'm "doing it wrong". Well maybe I am based on the type of clothes you might wear, but for what I wear at times nothing I currently own will fit the bill.
Regardless of that fact, I said I want to up the caliber. So telling me a 9mm is a capable SD round again does not offer me anything. I am not knocking the caliber as I do own one. I just prefer a .45 or maybe a .40, though I have never owned that caliber. No matter what the round I will have it will be high quality hollow point ammo. I know people who carry 380's and feel fine with those, but I'd prefer something larger yet concealable.

Any positive or informative suggestions are welcome.

[Quoheleth]

I really, really love my Ruger SR9c. I'm 6'4", 300lbs, and carry it every day in a High Noon Split Decision at my 7-8:00 position on my left hip. With 10+1 9mm+P I don't feel undergunned at all. If I really am concerned about where I'm headed, I can also carry the full-size 17 round mag as backup.

This gun is spooky accurage, recoils negligibly, had a smooth trigger and is thin enough to be extremely comfortable to carry every day, IWB, with slacks and tucked-in polo or sport shirt, but big enough that I don't mind shooting it as a range gun.

I cannot recommend this highly enough as a consideration.

Q

[9mmepiphany]

I clearly said I do not find my current handguns to be concealable enough in the warm weather, yet you say I'm "doing it wrong". Well maybe I am based on the type of clothes you might wear, but for what I wear at times nothing I currently own will fit the bill.
I think what he was trying to infer was that you might reevaluate your style of dress. Granted I wouldn't live in Southern FL, due to the climate, but most of us who carry all the time have made compromises in dress to accommodate concealment.

A stiff belt and holster, tightly cinched around your waist, under an oversized shirt will usually conceal anything reasonable

[Magoo]

I opted for a Kahr PM40. I think the manual said it required 200 break in rounds, but mine took closer to 400. I think you could argue either way that it's either too much money in ammo to break in or that it gives you plenty of time to get familiar with your carry weapon.
I found the Agrip stick-on takes a lot of the bite out of the recoil and I like the purchase it gives me on the small frame.

A friend has the PM9 and his has been 100% out of the box.

[geekWithA.45]

.....

[brboyer]

Your post is suppose to help in what way?
I clearly said I do not find my current handguns to be concealable enough in the warm weather, yet you say I'm "doing it wrong". Well maybe I am based on the type of clothes you might wear, but for what I wear at times nothing I currently own will fit the bill.
Regardless of that fact, I said I want to up the caliber. So telling me a 9mm is a capable SD round again does not offer me anything. I am not knocking the caliber as I do own one. I just prefer a .45 or maybe a .40, though I have never owned that caliber. No matter what the round I will have it will be high quality hollow point ammo. I know people who carry 380's and feel fine with those, but I'd prefer something larger yet concealable.

Any positive or informative suggestions are welcome.


Sorry, too many phone calls distracted me from completing my post.

Define "concealable enough"
What is your normal attire?
What type of holsters have you tried?
What belt are you using?

I can wear dress slacks/shirt/tie or shorts/polo or jeans/t-shirts and use the same holster/firearm.

[Vector]

I keep seeing Kahr recommended, so obviously none of you are experiencing the jamming or feed problems described by that critic of them then?

If I were to go with a Kahr, I might consider the P45 as the PM seems to be very pricey.

[Mudinyeri]

Both of my Kahrs, a CW40 and a PM9, have been reliable since their first round. The CW probably has close to 1000 rounds through it now. The PM maybe 500. Neither is a fun range gun, but they are reliable and concealable.

The PM is "pricey" for a reason ... it's a great, lightweight, relatively high-quality gun.

For the OP, my response which was somewhat along the lines of brboyer's response was meant to suggest that you might want to re-evaluate or look at things from a different angle or consider a different carry setup. I'm not suggesting that you NEED to carry a larger pistol either in size or caliber (although you seem to want to carry a larger caliber), merely that you might be able to carry a gun you already own but just haven't come across the right way to do so. No disrespect intended.

[Ledgehammer]

Fwiw I see a lot of cw40's in the used gun case at my local shop, usually 4-6 at a time. I don't see any cw 9's. Just something to check out at your local shop. It doesn't necessarily mean anything, but it's worth asking. Maybe they upgraded or mabe they went back down to a 9 because 40 cal in that size handgun has got to be a handful. Of course ymmv - how ya doin?

[DasFriek]

My main gun is a 5" 1911 i carry 80% of the time.
The rest of the time goes to my SA XD SC .40 which is smaller and lighter, Just not thinner which isnt an issue imo.
Those are my two ccw guns but i want a few more.
I want a small .380 like the Sig P238 i sold and regret.
A 3" 1911 in .45
A used PM45 but id say a PM40 may be easier to handle.

But when it comes down to it i like to shoot alot and id love a small .380 sized 9mm that didn't cost $600 so i could hit the range with it as much as i want.
But not a Keltec so that leaves only the $600 PM9. One day ill find something that will fit.

[9mmepiphany]

Maybe they upgraded or mabe they went back down to a 9 because 40 cal in that size handgun has got to be a handful

If I saw that, I say it was the later.

I've know several folks who have gotten the .40, "because it was more power in the same sized gun", only to discover that there really isn't any free lunch.

The .40's steeper pressure curve and inertia , compared to the 9mm, especially in a polymer frame (because everyone wants less weight) does cause the guns to jump around a bit.

[hawkeye10]

:) I am also a big Kahr fan. Right now I have two, a CW9 and a P380 but I have had several others. I did have some issue's with my P380 but have worked through them. I think my next gun will be a PM40. Don

[Vector]

merely that you might be able to carry a gun you already own but just haven't come across the right way to do so. No disrespect intended.

I have only taken umbrage with one poster who did not offer anything other than unuseful remarks.
In your case I understand what you are saying and have no sense that you meant anything negative. I have worn loose clothing to conceal before, but if I am wearing shorts with a tucked in polo it is hard to conceal any of my full size handguns. If I wear cargo shorts, I'd like a small enough gun to fit into one of the pockets without being easily detected.
---
On a side not, I'm getting the impression that several feel a compact .40 has more recoil issues than a .45 :confused:

[Mudinyeri]

If I saw that, I say it was the later.

I've know several folks who have gotten the .40, "because it was more power in the same sized gun", only to discover that there really isn't any free lunch.

The .40's steeper pressure curve and inertia , compared to the 9mm, especially in a polymer frame (because everyone wants less weight) does cause the guns to jump around a bit.
If I had it to do over again I'd probably go CW9 rather than CW40. However, in addition to the CW40, I also own an XD40 SC. Neither one is going to be my favorite range gun but I have no problem spending a half day with either of them at the range. I've done full-day classes with the XD.

As was mentioned earlier, YMMV. :D

[9mmepiphany]

On a side not, I'm getting the impression that several feel a compact .40 has more recoil issues than a .45

You're getting the correct impression

[MrWesson]

m&p40c or m&p9c

Both are a little larger than a glock 26/27 but carry 2 extra rounds.

Extremely reliable and with custom backstraps fit most anyone.
http://www.hogvalleyproducts.com/images/lipseys/filec9379bb807f547fab95c660ca18f6a6a.jpg

[MICHAEL T]

I pack a Colt defender most time jeans and T shirt Good holster and good belt The little 1911's conceal fine. If you going to carry you pretty well leave you shirt out . A defender with proper holster should work in cargo pocket. But that really a bad place to carry. Primary Pistol should be waist area. faster to reach. Not buried in a pocket.

40 has a lot more snap in recoil than 45 acp
I had a CW9 Kahr Wife grabbed it first day She has it now

[gofastman]

40 has a lot more snap in recoil than 45 acp
its velocity is also less affected by shot barrels than the .45

[Magoo]

I've not shot a PM45 and can't comment on its recoil. I will say that my PM40 is not "fun" to shoot and would not be my choice for a range gun. I didn't buy it for a range gun. No I don't shoot it as well as my steel 5" 1911 .45s (much less felt recoil), but I shoot it well enough at the ranges I carry it for.

Like the OP, I wanted a larger caliber than 9mm, and after handling everything I could get my hands on, I chose the PM40. I agree that pocket carry is not ideal, but one of my criteria was that the pistol be pocketable. Again, the PM40 was the best I found.

[Sevenfaces]

-I feel like I'm becoming a broken record here-

But if you still want the .45 acp in a small package, I recommend you at least look at a glock 30. for a short, light gun it has little recoil. Like others have mentioned, the .40 is snappier than the .45. I even had to sell a Ruger I had because I didn't like the way it felt.

If you don't feel like you need the 9+ rounds a G30 offers, I would suggest a Defender style 1911. Honestly though, you can't go wrong with a 9mm either.

[JEB]

i use a supertuck holster with 5.11 operator belt (im no mall ninja, but for $30 ya just cant find a better belt IMO)

for a semi auto, im rather fond of glocks. with the above combo they all seem to disappear with ease. if i am concealing with just a t-shirt, i usually opt for the G27.

for a revolver i only own (and am VERY fond) of a ruger sp101. small and light enough that its not a pain to carry, but still heavy enough that .357 rounds arent a pain to shoot.

[Vector]

On the pocket carry issue, I typically do not want to carry like that. If I think the need for ccw is high, I'll go with a holstered larger caliber in clothing that will conceal it. However for a casual jaunt in summer heat, I'd like to have something with stopping power that can fit in a pocket.

[Vector]

If Kahr is one of the better cc out there, what would be a fair price for a lightly used P45 with a Crimson Trace laser sight?

[orionengnr]

I have been carrying for about six years now.

I have been through probably 25 "candidates"...Glocks, XDs, a bunch of J-frames, some 1911s, and so forth.

I currently own three Kahrs, and I am not a "fanboy". My PM9 had the barrel peening issue that many of the early ones did. Kahr fixed it for me, right first time. I carried it for better than three years, and it is an absolutely reliable and accurate weapon.

I bought a P45 and have been carrying it for the last year and a half. Again, it is a 100% reliable and accurate weapon. I would carry either with confidence...but I am a .45 guy, so I'll stick with the P45.

A few weeks ago I bought a PM45. I have read good and bad, and this one is a bit ammo picky. It works fine with my two favorite carry rounds, Winchester Ranger 230 gr JHP +p and Cor Bon DPX 185 +p.

Some of the lower-priced target ammo was less cooperative. I will put some more rounds through it before I carry it, but I think it will work out fine.

Sure is a teeny .45acp. :)

[mongo4567]

My two favorite carry guns are a Kahr PM40 in a FIST IWB holster and a Keltec P3AT in an Aker pocket holster. Neither are range guns, they are both small and light for the caliber....much easier to carry than other options. I have one friend that hates my PM40 after shooting it, it's not for the recoil sensitive. They have both been 100%.

[Snubshooter]

129124I have 2 Kahrs a PM9 that I pocket carry all the time and a P45 both with black slides and nite sights. The PM9 shoots everything no problem, I have a couple thousand rounds through mine. The P45 is very ammo sensitive (I think it has a short throat) I have not found any reloads that it likes but it seems reliable with factory stuff, I tried 5 different factory SD loads all worked well.

[Sig88]

Maybe a nice j-frame? I got a 442 and its a pleasure to carry and not bad to shoot either.

[M&PVolk]

I will be the lone detractor of Kahr in this thread. I stay very far away. My experience with a CW40 is the worst single gun I have ever had. It malfunctioned and broke in so many ways, I cannot even begin to list them and their customer service was horrific. If you really want a Kahr, I would recommend going with their all steel guns, as I have heard they are of higher quality overall.

FWIW, I believe the perfect carry gun arsenal should have at least one small frame revolver in it for just the scenario presented by the OP. .357 and .38+p are great calibers, and they can be had in very light weights. Additionally, the cylinder is the biggest thing to conceal, and it is on the belt with a very slim and easy to conceal grip shape.

[Hashshashin]

I carry a S&W 640 in my pocket. Thats five rounds of a hollow point .357 magnum. I don't worry about having a gun with 13 rounds & an extra clip for my carry weapon (thats more of a home defense handgun, but then I prefer a 12g shotgun for home protection anyhow). If I have to pull out my weapon I assume my target is going to be in close proximity to me (3-8 yards) & if I can't get it done with 5 shots of the aforementioned rounds then another 8 wont help of a lesser or equal power.

It fits in my front pocket, easily accessible for me & the pocket holster conceals it. Think about a small snub nosed hammerless revolver (even a .38 Special will get the job done nicely with the correct ammo)

[Utahusker]

If you don't mind a little extra weight and like all metal guns, the Sig p239 in .40 might be a good choice.

[josephbw]

On a side not, I'm getting the impression that several feel a compact .40 has more recoil issues than a .45

Before you dismiss the .40 caliber, try to find an XD40SC to shoot. I think you will be pleasantly surprised with the recoil and the ease of getting off a second shot quickly. Mine has been absolutely reliable, fun to shoot, and accurate.:)

[JCools]

Get a belly band holster.Wear it over a tank top (wife beater),and under your T-shirt or polo.I wear mine up around my belly button. It conceals my .38sp and even my ruger 9mm just fine. I don't use it for my sigma 40ve, cause of safety issues.

[mljdeckard]

What's too large? I carry a full-size steel 1911 year round in a Crossbreed Supertuck, including 100+ degrees.

Comfort is relative. A lot of it is in the mind of the carrier. Take a belligerent anti gun person, (I always imagine female with I say this, but it's probably politically incorrect,) and have them put on a Kel-tec in any method of carry you can imagine, and they will swear it feels like a tumor.

On the other hand, take a guy who turned 21 46 days ago, just got his permit in the mail, hang a Desert Eagle under his left arm, and he will swear he doesn't feel it.

There's a big difference between what you CAN carry and what you WANT to carry.

[TheWorstKind]

I have been wanting to ccw my full-size Sig P220 for some time, but was hesitant due to its sheer size and weight. Well, I finally took the plunge. I invested in an inexpensive Blackhawk IWB nylon holster, and tried it all weekend in a crossdraw position at 9 o'clock, going on 10 (I am right handed). The weapon concealed easily, and the position was very comfortable in all kinds of postions from walking to climbing stairs to sitting for hours in a car. I am sold.

[herkyguy]

I've found that exploring options with holsters is just as important as the gun itself. just upgraded to an XD CC 9mm from .380 pistol for IWB because of a good holster manufacturer.

[Vector]

Before you dismiss the .40 caliber, try to find an XD40SC to shoot. I think you will be pleasantly surprised with the recoil and the ease of getting off a second shot quickly. Mine has been absolutely reliable, fun to shoot, and accurate.:)
What is the reason someone would buy a .40 over a .45 if the recoil is greater?

[9mmepiphany]

Larger magazine capacity and shorter, front to rear, grip.

More choices in operating platforms

[Girodin]

I've found that exploring options with holsters is just as important as the gun itself. just upgraded to an XD CC 9mm from .380 pistol for IWB because of a good holster manufacturer.

I agree with that. The same gun in one holster may be deemed inadequately concealed and rather conspicuous while it seeming disappears in another holster even with the exact same clothing. I have really come to appreciate the value of a quality holster.

Another thing when people talk about what does or doesn't conceal, is that people often have different ideas of what constitutes concealed. Some people are talking about (and may have very good reason for requiring) no hint what so ever that they have a gun and zero chance that anyone will ever get any indication that they are. Others don't worry about slight bulges or printing or exposure of lifted shirt. I know I find myself falling into both ends of that spectrum depending on the circumstances, namely where I am going.

[Vector]

I agree with that. The same gun in one holster may be deemed inadequately concealed and rather conspicuous while it seeming disappears in another holster even with the exact same clothing. I have really come to appreciate the value of a quality holster.

Another thing when people talk about what does or doesn't conceal, is that people often have different ideas of what constitutes concealed. Some people are talking about (and may have very good reason for requiring) no hint what so ever that they have a gun and zero chance that anyone will ever get any indication that they are. Others don't worry about slight bulges or printing or exposure of lifted shirt. I know I find myself falling into both ends of that spectrum depending on the circumstances, namely where I am going.
That is exactly what I mean. I presume the state law only requires it to be out of sight, not completely undetectable. So my personal goal is is no detection whatsoever.

[mick53]

I didn't have time to read all the posts on this so I don't know if anyone has mentioned the Bersa UC .45.

I had one for a couple of years and sold it. It was one of those, "I wish I didn't sell it," pistols.

It's a very small .45 and was always reliable after the first 100 rounds or so.

Some pople knock Bersas. I've owned several and never had a lemon.

Here are the specs:

.45 Specifications

• Model: TPUC45
• Caliber(s): .45 ACP
• Action: DA/SA
• Capacity: 7+1
• Barrel Length: 3.6”
• Front Sight: Interchangeable Sig Sauer type
• Rear Sight: Interchangeable Sig Sauer type
• Finishes: Duotone or Matte Black
• Grips: Checkered Black Polymer
• Construction: Alloy Frame/Steel Slide
• Safety: Integral Locking System, Manual, Firing Pin
• Weight: 27 oz.
• Length: 6.8”
• Height: 5.1”
• Width: 1.45”

[orionengnr]

^^^^Wow. "Very small .45"?
My Kahr PM45 is 17.5 oz, P45 is 18.5 oz, and Kimber UC II is 24 oz.

[CeeZar]

IMHO concealability is more about a good holster than the gun. You can get all the physical specs on gun size from the manufacturer's websites. There are a great many guns that are very similar in size. I carry a CZ 75 PCR which is a doublestack compact year round including in shorts and a t shirt. The key is the holster, crossbreed supertuck that keeps it nice and tight against my body and is very comfortable with a good belt.

[Vector]

I was starting to look for a Kahr P45 based on many of the posts here. However looking at this article regarding reliability, I am now having second thoughts.

http://www.kahr.com/PA-1B/review_SWAT0510.html

RELIABILITY
The PM45’s initial reliability was unimpressive, with numerous failures to feed and eject. However, the PM45 manual clearly states, “The Kahr pistol must run through an initial break-in period before achieving fully reliable feeding and functioning. The pistol should not be considered fully reliable until after it has fired 200 rounds.” My pistol certainly needed the break-in period.

What say you Kahr enthusiasts?