Springfield 1911 ejects casing into forehead


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franko07
October 13, 2010, 05:19 PM
I have a springfield champion 4" Gi lightweight that when i got it was having problems with ejecting the cartirage and when i asked the guy at the range he told me it was from limp wristing(didnt believe him) so i got on here and read about extractor and such learning how to adjust and tweak, after filing a very small amout off the extractor it now ejects everytime but now it shoots the case right into my 4head. how do i go about repairing this problem so it goes to the side.


i would have just done a search but its a very specific problem and didnt know how to search it.

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DonRon
October 13, 2010, 05:27 PM
Move forehead, if that fails then have the ejector adjusted by a qualified gunsmith.

Walkalong
October 13, 2010, 05:37 PM
Ejection Perfection (http://www.brazoscustom.com/magart/ejection%20perfection.htm)

Mac's Precision
October 13, 2010, 05:46 PM
The fix is a bit hard to verbalize but i'll try. If you don't understand fully DON'T make modifications until I am able to clarify.

The extractor shape should be such that it holds the case up on the breech face and tensioned such that it will hold it when snapped in and shaken about. It mustn't be too tight as you will have feeding issues.

If it is extracting properly, then the location of the spent brass in flight is primarily controlled by the shape of the ejector and extractor tension. It should be (when viewed from the left side) slightly (just a few degrees) undercut on the bottom 70% of the face. The upper 30% should have an angle filed on it to control when the case rotates up. That upper angle may have a SLIGHT chamfer on the right side toward the ejection port to encourage the case to flip more effectively to the right.

Here is a link to a picture...(all the way at the bottom) of a correctly shaped ejector. See if yours looks like this one.

http://www.brazoscustom.com/magart/ejection%20perfection.htm

Hope that helps
Cheers
Mac.

W.E.G.
October 13, 2010, 05:50 PM
Colt Series 70
Para Ordnance P14
Springfield Armory 1911 clone
Ballester Molina

They all bounced brass off my forehead.

Also several other 1911's (one was a Smith and Wesson) all did it.

That's the dirty little secret the 1911 fanboi's didn't tell you.

Oh yeah, sure you can "tune" the gun so it is less likely to frag your face - so long as its tuned "right" and you use just the right parts and tools, and you use just the right ammo, etc., etc.

If this is such a chronic problem, maybe somebody can explain to me why the extractors and ejectors aren't "tuned" before the guns leave the factory?

Did I mention these things only hold 8 or 9 rounds, and they are big as the dickens and heavy as a boat anchor?

I watch other shooters at the range when they have a 1911. The ones who are shooting factory guns and factory ammo are all getting fragged in the face and down the shirt collar.

I still have the Springfield gun.
Very pretty to look at.
It only nails me square between the eyes every third or fourth magazine.
If I would open my mouth, I wouldn't even have to police brass.

franko07
October 13, 2010, 06:11 PM
cool, ill look into the extractor a little more, i had figured that was the problem since it decides where it hits to push the spent case out.

i just bought the gun so i could have a project, i like working on them and i have a sig p239 and lcp for carry so that isnt a problem.

NMGonzo
October 13, 2010, 06:23 PM
Mine only do when I limpwrist.

Mac's Precision
October 13, 2010, 06:45 PM
"If I would open my mouth, I wouldn't even have to police brass."

Uh....so does passing them through your digestive tract give them that new shiny brass look?

Cheers
Mac.

franko07
October 13, 2010, 06:48 PM
on ejectors is there a good tuned one i can put on it or do i have to tune it to the gun?

xXxplosive
October 13, 2010, 06:50 PM
Every once in a great while my Series 70 Combat Commander sends one back that bounces off the crainium..........limp wristing maybe ? I have a lowered ejection port and the gun tuned very well.....Hmmmm.

Full Metal Jacket
October 13, 2010, 09:55 PM
pretty much standard on a GI model. the ejection port isn't lowered to allow the shells to eject more to the side.

VA27
October 13, 2010, 10:01 PM
I had a LW Commander that would bounce 'em off my forehead. The LW guns had a different ejector. I put in a GI ejector and it cured my problem.

Walkalong
October 13, 2010, 10:21 PM
That's the dirty little secret the 1911 fanboi's didn't tell you.That's funny. None of my 1911's hit me in the head with brass. Maybe I am doing something wrong. :D

Don't let the 1911 detractors bother you franko07.

franko07
October 13, 2010, 10:33 PM
That's funny. None of my 1911's hit me in the head with brass. Maybe I am doing something wrong.

Don't let the 1911 detractors bother you franko07.


it wont, i bought this gun as a project not as a carry. i want to make it retartedly accurate and 100% operational all the time to my liking and then i will consider throwing it in the truck every once and a while.

i bought the GI because i liked its style.

HOOfan_1
October 13, 2010, 11:18 PM
Maybe your gun thinks the brass is that headache medicine "Head On"

DonRon
October 13, 2010, 11:24 PM
A thinking 1911:eek: Now I have heard everything!

Chuck Warner
October 13, 2010, 11:40 PM
The first thing in 1911s of all sizes that should be checked before all else is the spring.

The shorter guns generally should be changed at 1000-1500 rnds and the 5" guns should be changed at 1500-2500 rnds. These intervals should be reduced with hotter loads.

You would not believe how many guns have passed through my hands for extractor work that merely needed fresh springs. Clean, assemble properly with a fresh recoil spring, Then evaluate your problem. I had this exact scenario with a lady customer whose gun started doing this at Gunsite a week ago. Hers got so bad it busted her Bushing while at gunsite.
:)

1858
October 14, 2010, 12:06 AM
I watch other shooters at the range when they have a 1911. The ones who are shooting factory guns and factory ammo are all getting fragged in the face and down the shirt collar.

Not me! My factory 1911 sends cases (reloads or factory ammunition) about 10 feet to the right roughly perpendicular to wherever the muzzle is pointing. The cases don't get anywhere near my head.

:)

vikz
October 14, 2010, 12:30 PM
Colt Series 70
Para Ordnance P14
Springfield Armory 1911 clone
Ballester Molina

They all bounced brass off my forehead.

Also several other 1911's (one was a Smith and Wesson) all did it.

That's the dirty little secret the 1911 fanboi's didn't tell you.

Oh yeah, sure you can "tune" the gun so it is less likely to frag your face - so long as its tuned "right" and you use just the right parts and tools, and you use just the right ammo, etc., etc.

If this is such a chronic problem, maybe somebody can explain to me why the extractors and ejectors aren't "tuned" before the guns leave the factory?

Did I mention these things only hold 8 or 9 rounds, and they are big as the dickens and heavy as a boat anchor?

I watch other shooters at the range when they have a 1911. The ones who are shooting factory guns and factory ammo are all getting fragged in the face and down the shirt collar.

I still have the Springfield gun.
Very pretty to look at.
It only nails me square between the eyes every third or fourth magazine.
If I would open my mouth, I wouldn't even have to police brass.
7 to 9 rounds is not enough???

longhair75
October 14, 2010, 01:12 PM
Maybe this is the reason for the gang banger "sideways grip"

essayons21
October 14, 2010, 01:33 PM
The first thing in 1911s of all sizes that should be checked before all else is the spring.

The shorter guns generally should be changed at 1000-1500 rnds and the 5" guns should be changed at 1500-2500 rnds. These intervals should be reduced with hotter loads.

This.

I picked up a 4" Springer used that had quite a bit of custom work done. The extractor had been tuned correctly, but the cases came straight up and back, usually hitting me in the arm, not quite making it to the forehead. Also having problems with failure to extract every 20 rounds or so. Adjusting extractor tension dropped this to every 75 rounds or so. A new Wolff 18lb spring eliminated all problems, gun now puts brass where it should, 10ft or so to my right.

wojownik
October 14, 2010, 03:09 PM
My Springfield 1911 also ejects the brass into my forehead. But I kinda like it. I'm funny that way. :p

fastbolt
October 14, 2010, 03:51 PM
The only time I can get one of my 1911's (4 Colts and a SW1911) to eject an empty case at my face is when I either reduce the stability of my grip and wrist lock, or use too heavy of a recoil spring.

Yes, as an armorer I've slightly tuned the occasional internal extractor. The current standard external SW1911 uses a 3rd gen .40 extractor that's already been beveled at the factory (see below).

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/fastbolt/sw1911extractors.jpg

The Performance Center models and the Pro Series Subcompact 3" use what they call an oversize extractor, which allows the hook to ride a bit lower on the case rim. There's been some rumor of an extractor revision for the standard SW1911 line, but I haven't heard any final details. If I were to make a wild guess, I'd wonder if they might change the extractor to have a hook profile similar to the M&P, where the hook is larger top-to-bottom and engages lower on the case rim. It requires a slight twist and turn to seat the M&P extractor in the extractor recess, instead of just slipping it straight in as with the current 3rd gen part. No big deal. S&W is always looking for ways to refine their products. The standard SW1911 extractor was originally used by the PC when they were making the SW1911 line after all, (before moving it over to regular factory production), but then the PC started using a larger one in their 1911 models. Go figure.

I've also been able to get a couple of other.45's to toss empty cases my face by either relaxing my grip/wrist lock or using a really heavy recoil spring, too, such as my Ruger P90 (heaviest spring sold by Wolff) and my G26 (stock spring with relaxed grip).

Sky
October 14, 2010, 04:12 PM
Hummm my cheap Metro Arms American Classic ll 1911 has never hit or spit brass at me; but I do speak nicely to it.

franko07
October 14, 2010, 05:30 PM
The first thing in 1911s of all sizes that should be checked before all else is the spring.

The shorter guns generally should be changed at 1000-1500 rnds and the 5" guns should be changed at 1500-2500 rnds. These intervals should be reduced with hotter loads.

You would not believe how many guns have passed through my hands for extractor work that merely needed fresh springs. Clean, assemble properly with a fresh recoil spring, Then evaluate your problem. I had this exact scenario with a lady customer whose gun started doing this at Gunsite a week ago. Hers got so bad it busted her Bushing while at gunsite.

this was a Brand spanking new pistol

fastbolt
October 14, 2010, 06:52 PM
It's not impossible to get a defective recoil spring, or one made at the wrong end of the normal tolerance which fails quickly.

Some attention to a reasonably firm grip technique and a locked wrist, coupled with a fresh recoil spring, might offer some further insight into the situation.

Just my thoughts.

Chuck Warner
October 14, 2010, 07:44 PM
Since its a new gun, check for proper orientation of the spring. Open loop to the muzzle, closed loop on the guide rod. I would still change the spring to be safe, then look at further options if this doesnt resolve it.

I reread your post and see that your extractor is now tuned as well. Try a different one if you can

franko07
October 14, 2010, 08:03 PM
i just tried to get in contact with springfield to order new springs for the guide rod system and i will order another extractor and ejector as soon as i figure out which one to get.

also i am a machinist and can enlarge the ejection port on my mill, is this somthing reasonable or am i not going to be able to approach it that way?

im open to suggestions on both the extractor and ejector

fastbolt
October 14, 2010, 08:30 PM
You know, if a new recoil spring doesn't do the trick, why not just have Springfield correct the condition under warranty?

Beats trail & error if you aren't experienced with the nuances of working on the 1911 platform.

Curiosity is all well and good, but it's really easy to screw up things and make new problems once someone starts dabbling with the 1911. The old "fix it till it's really broken" syndrome.

Just a thought. Might be something easily diagnosed and addressed by Springfield under their warranty. Might save some frustration.

franko07
October 15, 2010, 04:24 PM
after i emailed the problem to springfield, they told me to send it to the custom shop for a lowered and flared ejection port for $65 and that they couldnt warranty it because it was a common problem with the GI series guns.

so i dunno what i want to do about it at this point yet, somthing tells me to send it in and get them to do it but then again im kinda hesitant.

fastbolt
October 15, 2010, 04:53 PM
A common problem with their GI series models? :scrutiny:

I've handled and fired older Colt GI configured .45's with the smaller ejection port and wasn't being pelted with empty cases. Dunno what to tell you. Personally, I'd expect more from them in the way of customer support and warranty coverage, but then I'm used to some other firearms manufacturers.

I don't have enough time logged with Springfield guns to offer an overall opinion, aside from saying that I've seen more satisfied Springfield owners than Kimber owners among our folks.

However, recently one of the other armorers brought me a sear from a new Springfield. The sear nose looked like someone had tried to turn it into a file. It was very rough and notched across the whole top.

I hope you can get your situation resolved to your satisfaction at some point.

If the $65 (plus shipping?) modification does the trick, it might be a better long term resolution than the frustration of putting up with it or trying to resolve it yourself.

Greg528iT
October 15, 2010, 04:55 PM
Let them do it. If in only because they can refinish the slide to match. Unless of course your machine shop has a parkerizing station? ;) If it wasn't an exposed part, you might get away with cold bluing pen and keeping well oiled, but still that sounds like a problem waiting to happen.

franko07
October 15, 2010, 04:59 PM
this is the email i was sent


Hello Frank,

Thanks for the email. We can offer lowering and flaring the ejection port through our custom shop. That is a $65 service and will help with the ejection trajectory. Unfortunately shells towards the shooters head is a common characteristic of the GI model.

Please contact our custom shop at customshop@springfield-armory.com or at 800-617-6751



Thank you and have a great day!

Penne Bormann

Customer Service Rep.

1-800-680-6866, Ext 8972

Springfield Armory

Email: penne@springfield-armory.com

ir3e971
October 15, 2010, 06:49 PM
fastbolt is right on target. I fix many things myself. However, I was in your shoes about a year ago. After several efforts, I made a mess of the ejection issue.

Long story short...

I should be getting my 1911 back on Monday from SA. Fixing it yourself (perhaps) can be frustrating, and pricey if you screw up. (I did).

franko07
October 15, 2010, 07:02 PM
thanks for the advise, as said in the email that they could fix it for $65 it turns out that the custom shop wont honor that price and want $90 to do this plus $45 to refinish the slide plus a $30 service charge. im thinkin i will just get the defense service for $350 if i cant get them to deal with the warranty issue. should have upgraded the first time

1858
October 15, 2010, 07:44 PM
I think this is another example of you get what you pay for ... which seems to be particularly true for the 1911 platform. All of the 4" Kimbers come with a deep "scallop" cut at the rear of the ejection port but they cost quite a bit more.

http://128.171.62.162/hawthorn-engineering/thr/pistols/kimber/photos/kimber_pro_raptor_ii.jpg

:)

h2o4ever
October 15, 2010, 07:48 PM
hello, i also have a sa champion gi that does the same thing.At first it was one or two out of the mag but now it is like every one or every other one.Ihave read that a lot of people has the same deal going on so i thought it to be normal.But it sure would be nice to shoot my gi without getting beaten by cases. I have had it several yrs. now so i dont know if it is still under warr. or not.

franko07
October 15, 2010, 08:00 PM
now that i have detrermined that it wont get done under warranty, i am looking at getting it to be more accurate, i was lookin in the custom sheet and was wondering what yall would upgrade and keep the look the same.

i have determined i need to start with the 1911-a1 defense package which includes
1. Deburr pistol internally
2. Tune extractor & ejector
3. Recut barrel throat & polish feed ramp
4. Install custom match bushing
5. Check headspace
6. Install new recoil spring & firing pin spring
7. Tuned 4.5 lb. trigger
8. GI Models: Lower & flare ejection port; install extended ejector
9. Refinish as needed (Additional charge for some finishes)
10. Reliability tuning
11. Inspect & test fire for function


i would also like to get the front of the grip checkered but i dont know much about the DPI's and such.

Jackal1
October 15, 2010, 08:01 PM
I did not read all the posts... not enough time... but FWIW the SW1911's supposedly have a tendency to shoot ejected brass at the shooter's head for the first hundred rounds or so until the gun breaks in. After breaking in, the gun ejects just fine.

ir3e971
October 15, 2010, 10:30 PM
Frank,

For my GI I did the following:

Installed Novak sights and had the ejection port flared. Did this with Novak.

The pistol has always been 100%, and accurate. Probably have three thousand rounds through it. I just got sick of getting ponged with brass.

I Tried installing a new extractor and tuning it, and an extended ejector, only to have it converted to a pistol that spit cartridges out like a popcorn popper. Then the ejector incident happened... (broke one of the legs off in the blind hole...).

I was just sick about it, and I sent it back to the mother ship for repair. Figured that they built it, they can probably fix my screw up.

While there I had them put in a match bushing, and install new ejector and tuned extractor, as well as reparkerize the lower parts (it is somewhat dinged up, as well as having a flat mainspring housing from an S&W that did not match)

It put me out 230.00 total. However, it arrives Monday, and I will be glad to have it back in the stable.

Good luck.

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