[Blackhawk]

Be it known that at approximately 11:40 AM CST today, 12/16/03, the first Rohrbaugh R-9s was delivered to its owner.

There's only one word for this gun: WOW!

It is, without a doubt, the finest example of workmanship and metal crafting I've ever seen, and that's without getting into the superior design features.

More later. I've got things to do.... :D

[9x19]

Well!!

I must say, I'm a bit surprised at your lack of enthusiasm.

:neener:

[WonderNine]

I hope it shoots as good as it looks. Question, do they make their own magazines? If not, what markings are on the mags?

I was just looking at a Kel-Tec P3AT a half hour ago and noticed that Mec-Gar makes the magazines, that kinda took me by surprise.

[Black Snowman]

Most gun manufactures don't make their own magazines since the metal folding/forming equipment involved is drasticly differant than the equipment needed to machine a firearm. Mec-Gar is the largest OEM supplier IIRC.

[USGuns]

Pictures please!!!

[WonderNine]

Most gun manufactures don't make their own magazines since the metal folding/forming equipment involved is drasticly differant than the equipment needed to machine a firearm.

Ah thanks. I knew alot of firearms makers contract their magazines out, but I didn't know that was the reason why.

Pictures please!!!

Yes, what's going on here? I thought you were told to have pictures here by 12:30 sharp!!! :D :D :D

[Hellbore]

Anyone know what the price on these is gonna be, and when normal people can buy them? :)

[Wildalaska]

Anyone know what the price on these is gonna be, and when normal people can buy them?

Unfortunately, they seem to be lacking in customer service. Ive got a decent market for them, and as the largest dealer in the state, we were hoping to stock them.

But, never got an answer to my many emails. O well, hopefully the people who manage to get them will get better service.

WildczramiAlaska

[WonderNine]

Haha Wild, I guess I can understand your frustration. The RAMI isn't really a true pocket pistol though. How about Wildkahrpm9Alaska?
;)

[Dave R]

I'm not gonna believe it until I see a range report on THR.

[Sean Smith]

Not too bright if they are blowng off a major dealer that wants to sell their stuff. Guess they want to stay vaporware... :D

[Mike Irwin]

What was the final delivered price?

Kept going up, IIRC... way up.

[Wildalaska]

How about Wildkahrpm9Alaska?

Ya know Ive never realy liked the Kahrs...dont know why,they are good guns, sort of a visceral thing I guess...just like I like the looks of CZ75s but dont like the gun, or P7s, or why the only full size Colt I like is the new blue series 70...

Then again, my wife has dark hair, so I find myself peekin at blondes (when I can without gettin caught)...when I had a blonde wife I like dark girls, etc

WildchangeableAlaska

[Jeff OTMG]

GOT MINE!!! #101 as promised. First shots fired at 15:00 CST.

Dealer price is $756, MSRP $900. If you want one order one and put down a deposit. There are THOUSANDS of these on backorder already and as production ramps up they will come out faster. There should be about 50 delivered by the end of the month. They are all bought and paid for. Rohrbaugh is not going the distributor route, they had single orders for over 500 guns last year and this year.

[Correia]

Ok guys, now we want range reports! :D

[USGuns]

Jeff OTMG: First shots fired at 15:00 CST.


What, and no range report yet?!?! ;) Was it what you expected? How was the recoil? Any malfunctions? Quality?

[New_comer]

Finally! Thats quite a long wait! ;)

Now we want range reports! :D

[12GA]

Come on! Throw us a bone! :banghead:

[45R]

http://www.usualsuspect.net/forums/images/smilies/useless.gif

[Alan Fud]

I had one on order but cancelled after the delivery date slipped by more than six months.

I'll be interested in hearing what's the recoil and if there are any malfunctions before I re-order it again.

Give us dirt ... :D

[Sven]

No Rohrbaughs for California, not for a while anyhow.

[Blackhawk]

Here's a bone or two, but sorry they're just small ones.

The trigger travel (measured from the finger pressure point) is 0.575". I haven't put it on the trigger scale yet, but it feels like about 7-8#. The trigger has no palpable overtravel at either extreme.

For a racking test, I asked a couple of nubile blondes to try it since the average female seems to have trouble racking new autos of the 9mm variety. Neither of them had any trouble.

I removed the right grip to eyeball the trigger mechanism. It's incredibly simple and stout. Doesn't look like this design is going to have any trigger problems! It's very comforting to see the much touted (by ME!) compression main spring. The fit and finish on the inside is just as gorgeous as on the outside.

I'm going to laser bore sight it against the sights and test other dynamic functioning with a Laser Blaster as well as do the rest of my typical incoming gun tests and inspections before round one ever goes down range, but Eric Rohrbaugh told me that it's already been test fired with at least 2 full mags.

I don't like the European style mag release, but I never have liked them on any gun.

Oh, there is no manufacturer's indicia on the mags. It came with 2, and the only marking other than some "standard ammo only" text on the mag itself is the Rohrbaugh crest on the floor plate.

Gotta go. More later....

[Alan Fud]

Does that mean that +P ammo can't be used?

Also, are there more than one type of sights offered with it?

[Jeff OTMG]

No malfunction, I just put a dozen rounds through it. Figured if Blackhawk transferred his first at least I could be the first one to send some lead downrange.
I did find out that the two guns that I got sent to Hollywood were fired with live ammo. The movie gun guy picked up two of his old Navy SEAL buddies on his way over to have the guns blanked out. They stopped at a range and put about a box through them. They complained of recoil. The 124 gr load I fired did recoil more than the 115gr, but nether was heavy. There was a sharpness to the recoil in the backstrap, but, although much lighter, the Rohrbaugh is far more comfortable to shoot than my S&W 940.

Mine is an R9S, if you get the sighted version, then this is what you end up with. At some point I will probably have mine altered with a black Novak rear and dovetailed ramped front in black. I have never been fond of silver sights.

[Bladeandbarrel]

For 1K I was hoping for decent, dovetailed sights.

[Bren]

New pocket nine $900 ,,,,

Not enough left over for a CAMERA,,,,,,


NOT SO PRICELESS! :p

[Jeff OTMG]

The sights were programmed in later. The pistol was never intended to have sights. If you want a high quality pistol with dovetailed sights buy a Valtro, Rock River, Les Baer, Wilson, or Brown, all over $1000.

[Bladeandbarrel]

All my pistols have sights OTMG. Even my J-frames and Kel-tecs.

My $450 SA XD has dovetailed sights.
And $350 CZ-75B

They aren't $1000 pistols...


As far as never intending to have sights, well who cares.
Any pistol worth its salt should have functional sights. Period.
I can hit a man sied steel silhoutee with my P-32 at 75 yards pretty regularly by virtue of the crude sights. I wish it had better sights...I might be able to hit the target in the head....

All I am suggesting is that for $1k, a dovetailed, black or tritium front would sure be nice.

[WonderNine]

Hmm, I still think I'm gonna get an MK9...

Like having sights. Like the beefyness (inspires confidence). And like the ability for +P+ ammo.

I thought the Rohrbaugh was supposed to be rated for +P+ ammo?

[Sven]

Photos?

[Newton]

PHOTOS !!!!!!!! :cuss:

In the meantime try this

http://www.rohrbaughfirearms.com/product/prod_set.html

[Spackler]

I don't see the appeal, especially for $900.

[MrFreeze]

I can see the appeal, but for my application it just doesn't make sense. There are enough options out there for me that the pistol fits a need I don't have.

More important than that, though...maybe the pistol will lead to a new breed of lighter, smaller, well-built pocket pistols. Only time will tell.

Travis

[45R]

http://www.rohrbaughfirearms.com/product/product_head.gif

[slh02]

I like the looks of the gun and appreciate the apparent quality and size (or lack there of), but I just can't get over the heel mag release. I understand the need for it I guess, but I just can't stand heel mag releases...

[ABBOBERG]

I don't know what the big deal is about the Rohrbaugh. They take John Brownings design and chop the barrel down to 2.7". Is someone going to be making special ammo for this gun with half the powder in it? Or do any of you guys out there care about the immense, deafening "woof" of the other half of the powder burning outside the barrel?

I'd be very curious to see the velocity and accuracy of various types of ammo shot in this gun.

Another interesting result would be the foot-pounds of recoil in this gun, especially with Cor-Bon ammo.

[USGuns]

:rolleyes:

[dhoomonyou]

Whatever.

[Blackhawk]

It's been 24hrs already and STILL no range report and pics ........ you 2 guys are FIRED! Fine with me.

Let me know when my severance check's ready, and I'll tell you where to send it. :p

[Pebcac]

For 900 bills, I just don't see the appeal, either. Seems like Kahr already covered this ground, and managed to include +P, for a good chunk less.

Maybe when production ramps up prices will drop to what they really should be IMHO. Still, I'm glad to see a new gun manufacturer out there making a quality firearm.

[concerned citizen]

I think some of you folks are missing the point of what this gun is.

It is designed to be a self defense pocket pistol, very much like what the seecamp is designed for only with the punch of 9mm.

I would buy one in a heart beat!

[Hellbore]

....But it probably WON'T have the "punch of a 9mm" because the barrel is too short for the powder to fully accellerate the slug! Doesn't anyone else think this will be a problem?

Someone needs to post velocity results. A 9mm bullet travelling too slowly because of a super short barrel... Is that going to have any better stopping power than a smaller slug? I doubt it.

I'm willing to carry a slightly-larger gun that has a long enough barrel to get good velocity.

Come to think of it... How long of a barrel is needed in order for all of the powder to burn inside rather than outside the barrel?

I just checked and the RAMI only has a 3 inch barrel. This Rohrbaugh is 2.7 inches. So maybe the RAMI will have the same problem?

Does .40 S&W need an evel longer barrel than 9mm?

[MrFreeze]

But it probably WON'T have the "punch of a 9mm" because the barrel is too short
Interesting point, but I don't think it will be too much of an issue. KT's P11/P40 barrels are approx 3.1 inches, and the Kahr PM9/PM40 have 3.0/3.08 inch barrels respectively. Compare that to the barrel length of the Taurus CIA Model 650 .357 and the semi's have a 50% longer barrel! :D

Travis

[Correia]

I don't know why it is, but the Rohrbaugh has seemed to generate more negative feelings than any other new gun that has come along.

Price. It is expensive. But as far as I can tell dealer cost is pretty reasonable and near what you would pay for a stainless Sig or less than you would pay for the fancier models of HK. It is way less than a production custom 1911. It seems to be a reasonable price point, especially since it is being built by a small start up company and is supposedly of very sound design and construction.

Are they supposed to give them away? Is an all metal gun with a higher level of fit and finish supposed to sell for the same as Kel Tec? Come on guys, they have to make their money the same way as everybody else.

Velocity loss? Sure it is a very compact gun. Apparently I'm one of the few folks on here who has handled one. It is extreamly small, much smaller than the Kahr. Velocity loss will be consistant with any other gun with a short barrel. The only comparable guns of this size are in .32 or .380, so you are still ahead in the ballistics department. Same argument holds for .38 and .357 snubbies, but those seem to be the most popular carry guns there are.

As for carrying a bigger gun for better ballistics, there are trade offs for everything. I carry a full size 1911 daily and I imagine that some folks on here would think I'm nuts. Personally I think that carrying something like a Kel Tec P32 as your only gun is not enough. But that is my personal opinion. This gives you something that small but with a large jump in power.

Lack of sights? Agreed, I like sights on everything. The Roahrbaugh's going for a certain market so they went with the smallest sights they could put on it. Seems reasonable to me. Pretty much anything I buy is going to have to have its sights replaced with XS sights to please me anyway, so I suppose I can complain about every new gun because it doesn't already have my favorite sights on it. :p

Recoil? Sure I bet it will have tons. See my comment about the .357 snubby above. This isn't an IPSC or plate gun, this is a drop in your pocket and insert it into the bad guy's belly button gun.

I've never seen the company claim to be the be all end all super duper fill all your needs gun. I've never heard any hype from them at all, so thats why I'm just so surprised about the amount of animosity towards these. It strikes me as weirdly disproportionate. I'm guilty of bashing new guns, I bash the heck out of the FiveseveN but that is because FN has hyped the crap out of it and after playing with it I think it is hunk of junk. :)

If you don't like them or don't want them, don't buy one. I'm sure that Rohrbaugh will sell every single one that they have the ability to produce for the forseeable future.

[Bladeandbarrel]

Lack of sights? Agreed, I like sights on everything. The Roahrbaugh's going for a certain market so they went with the smallest sights they could put on it. Seems reasonable to me. Pretty much anything I buy is going to have to have its sights replaced with XS sights to please me anyway, so I suppose I can complain about every new gun because it doesn't already have my favorite sights on it.

What folks fail to realize is that it would have been a lot easier tio have the R-9 come from the factory with dovetail front sights already in place. then your XS sights would drift right in...as it is now, you are looking at a gunsmith installation, and it wont be cheap.

[Correia]

Like I said, that was one thing I was in agreement with. It costs me $30-$45 to get a dovetail cut.

[Sean Smith]

Come to think of it... How long of a barrel is needed in order for all of the powder to burn inside rather than outside the barrel?

For a 9mm? About a foot.

[Blackhawk]

Mine, like Jeff's, is an R9-s. I laser bore sighted it to see how close the sights were relative to the bore axis. That revealed a very nice secret about the sights. True, they're silver sights with the rear one having a groove and the front one being a short blade. However, if you use them like normal sights, you'll shoot low. If you place the blade on target so it's just at the top of the arc the rear of the slide makes, they are dead on! IOW, place the blade at the top of the groove of the rear sight, and they're perfectly aligned with the bore. It makes the sights more like a revolver than the tiny sights of, say, a P-32.

I field stripped it a little while ago, and I have a few observations:

1. The interior of this gun is even more impressive than the exterior! The recoil spring system is pure genius. It uses 2 recoil springs, but they're not just double springs. They comprise a two stage, two spring system, and that's why it's relativly easy to rack yet able to handle 9mm in such a short space. This is where the money is!

2. The fit and finish of the interior is every bit as excellent as the exterior. The parts are very well made with no tool marks or other blemishes.

3. The skill level to field strip it is relatively high and requires strong hands. It's not going to be a gun that the average gun store clerk can demonstrate on your whim. However, the skills to do it are quickly learned once you understand how the precision parts fit together. Once I had it figured out, it only took 20 minutes to get it back together, but 19 of those were spent looking for the assembly pin, which mysteriously ran off while I was admiring the recoil assembly.

4. The assembly pin is never going to fall out. It's a roller bearing slightly rounded on both ends, which is the absolute favorite of mechanical designers to use whenever an indestructable pin is required AND the design can be made so the pin floats. The rounded ends cause the pin to recenter by movement of the slide should there ever be any axial force on the pin, which is very unlikely.

5. The precision fit of all the parts tends to keep the gun clean. After 2 mags, there's just a trace of burnt powder in the ramp area of the slide. I doubt if these guns will get cleaned very often if ever by the average owner because field stripping is almost a gunsmith level task and, like stainless PPK series guns, it's just not necessary for the 25 rounds a year crowd. This gun is designed to be totally reliable and ready, so I've got a feeling that most of them will spend far more time being ready and carried than being fired.

I pulled out my De Santis Nemesis holster that I bought for my P-32. The Rohrbaugh fits perfectly in it, much better in fact than the P-32. The Nemesis is tight enough that you can hold it upside down and shake it without the gun falling out. It doesn't even pretend to hold a P-32/P-3AT in anything resembling upside down by comparison.

The Rohrbaugh is palpably bigger than the KT mousers in addition to being heavier. It's a bit wider (which makes the Nemesis work) and the arrangement of the grip makes it MUCH more comfortable to handle, especially with the carbon fiber grips. The rake of the grip fits the hand much better so the gun feels like it's much bigger than it actually is. All of this contributes to it being much more comfortable to shoot than the lesser powered KT offerings.

All in all, if they get rid of that rotten heel mag release, this gun is going to be the perfect CCW and SD pistol. Of course, they're also going to have to get rid of the lawyer who's been leaving his tracks all over the internally contradictory and overly cautious manual. The barrel seems to be beefier than a P-11 (which I'll verify later), and there seems to be no reason to worry about +P or +P+ ammo from a safety standpoint, especially since the short barrel won't allow damaging high pressures to develop anyway.

A nice accessory will be a finger rest or extended mag combo for the HD oriented owner. I may modify one of the Kydex finger rests I have to see if having one makes anywhere near as much difference as it does on the KTs. I don't really think it will because the Rohrbaugh is just a much more comfortable gun to handle than the KTs. It's also a natural pointer, and I'll report more on that later after the Laser Blaster testing.

Regarding pictures: I'll take and post them when I'm ready, but they'll be of the internal parts and various views from different perspectives. For example, the back of this gun is absolutely gorgeous with its faired close fitting hammer and contrast with the anodized frame. The muzzle end is also, plus it's intimidating because that hole looks gargantuan probably due to your size perspective getting messed up due to the smallness of the gun. Funny enough, the P-3AT has the same size muzzle, but it looks like a toy in comparison. Maybe it's because the Rohrbaugh's barrel has a much heavier wall thickness. Anyway, be patient regarding pictures. Then again, what else can you do...?

[Bladeandbarrel]

Mine, like Jeff's, is an R9-s. I laser bore sighted it to see how close the sights were relative to the bore axis. That revealed a very nice secret about the sights. True, they're silver sights with the rear one having a groove and the front one being a short blade. However, if you use them like normal sights, you'll shoot low. If you place the blade on target so it's just at the top of the arc the rear of the slide makes, they are dead on! IOW, place the blade at the top of the groove of the rear sight, and they're perfectly aligned with the bore. It makes the sights more like a revolver than the tiny sights of, say, a P-32.


Oh great, the rear is silver too.....and an unconventiaonal sight picture to boot......

Why couldn't they just have the small novaks for the Colt .380 installed from the factory? Duh.

[Blackhawk]

I've got to admit that all this griping and moaning by some of you about something you've never even seen is getting on my nerves. Maybe you can go to a bar and order a beer to cry into. :banghead:

[Grump]

a very nice secret about the sights. True, they're silver sights with the rear one having a groove and the front one being a short blade. However, if you use them like normal sights, you'll shoot low. If you place the blade on target so it's just at the top of the arc the rear of the slide makes, they are dead on!

I'm holding off on believing this until you fire it. Place any revolver upside-down on a tabletop, on the sights, and look where the bore is pointed. Handguns sights point above the bore so the barrel rotation during bullet accelleration launches the bullet at the target.

IOW, if your handgun's sights point where the bore points, recoil torque will put the bullet above your point of aim.

[Bladeandbarrel]

Blackhawk, if you are referring to me, go fly a kite.

I have been "seeing" the R-9's for two years now.

[Blackhawk]

Grump,

I bore sight all my guns to learn the fixed sights, then aim accordingly, and hit where I aim if I don't screw up otherwise.

The 9mm round has a tendency to climb, which you can see on a manufacturer's ballistics graph. Seems that it's about 1" at 50 yards and not getting back to POA until about 100 yards.

Anyway, the "rotational torque" theory sounds rational, but I can't say as I've ever noticed it.

[ajacobs]

No bullet climbs once it leaves the barrel unless you know something about gravity that I don't. Those arc's only have to do with where it is zeroed in.

[Blackhawk]

It's not due to gravity. It's due to aerodynamics.

[Blackhawk]

Blackhawk, if you are referring to me, go fly a kite.

I have been "seeing" the R-9's for two years now.

In that case, Anthony, why would you think I was referring to you?

[coverdog]

Any gun is worth what someone will pay for it, just like anything else. I just want a report after you guys run a few hundred rounds through them. By the way when are these guns going to the range to get shot?

[gbelleh]

I am also surprised by the negativity so many are expressing about this gun. I think it's great that we have a new offering out there. I may be interested in one once they're proven to work well.

I don't really understand why so many people get mad over price. Why do people get mad because a P7 costs $1300 or a Rohrbaugh costs $900? Not too many seem to get angry about the cost of a Les Baer, Wilson, etc.

[ajacobs]

Blackhawk what is different about a 9mm that is has enough of an aerodynamic difference, espeically since the bullet is spinning and any force that would generally pull it up when the bullet is oreinted one way would also pull it down when it is rotated 180 degrees, to pull it up as opposed to every other caliber that goes down.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/grav.html (http://)

I am not doubting you I just don't know why. Maybe I should have started another thread. I know as well as anybody that looking at it from purely one perspective (gravity) leads to a limited point of veiw.

[9x19]

I've got to admit that all this griping and moaning by some of you about something you've never even seen is getting on my nerves.

Now you know how we've felt with all your praise for the past 22 months about something you'd never seen! :neener:

Get over it... we did! :evil:

[Bladeandbarrel]

Q-Do the guns shoot to point of aim?

A-Well it all depends where you aim, you see these sights are new, improved and different.....blah blah blah

[12GA]

Blackhawk, I appreciate the interim report and am looking forward to further reports.:D

[Blackhawk]

ajacobs,

There was an extensive thread about it on TFL.

It has to do with the center of gravity of a 9mm bullet being aft of its midpoint causing the angle of attack to be slightly positive. Aerodynamic lift results until the velocity decreases below the critical point.

The most dramatic effect is when you hand a 9mm to a champion IDPA shooter who never shoots anything but .45's. He won't be able to figure out what's happening at different ranges. :D

[Blackhawk]

Now you know how we've felt with all your praise for the past 22 months about something you'd never seen!I never praised the gun before yesterday because I'd never seen one. I've praised the concept because that's what I wanted to build or have somebody else build. I figure it would've cost a fortune to set up another machine shop, get all the approvals, run through several iterations of the design, and the opportunity cost of foresaking what I do for beans otherwise.

As it is, I probably paid 1/1000 of what, in another life, I would've been willing to pay for a perfect pistol. The only gig on this one, so far, is the heel mag release, which does interfere with my draw from pocket concealment and make speed reloads clumsy -- so far anyway.

So is a pistol worth a $mil? Depends, doesn't it? It's only money....

[WonderNine]

It has to do with the center of gravity of a 9mm bullet being aft of its midpoint causing the angle of attack to be slightly positive. Aerodynamic lift results until the velocity decreases below the critical point.

The most dramatic effect is when you hand a 9mm to a champion IDPA shooter who never shoots anything but .45's. He won't be able to figure out what's happening at different ranges.

Could you point me toward that thread? I don't remember ever reading it, maybe I have some stupid comments in it, but I always assumed that the only reason people thought a bullet rises is because the scope is higher than the muzzle.

What is critical speed for a 124gr. 9mm?

Funny thing is, the fixed factory sights on my Browning P35 (1982 Belgian model) are regulated for 100 yards. Depending on how close I shoot, the front site has to sit deeper in the rear site groove. Deeper as I shoot closer. At my typical 25 yard shooting distance it's three quarters of the way in the groove. Not very accurate offhand, but ok from a benchrest.

I was doing this the other day about halfways down is good at 50 yards. Kinda goofy, but good for a combat setup I guess.

I am thinking of replacing these sites someday, but I do like them for their durability and I don't really want to cut into the slide.

[Blackhawk]

WonderNine,

Search TFL for "Blackhawk aerodynamic[s] arrow 9mm gravity lift". I participated, and those are words I'm sure I would have used. Seems like it was one of those great threads, and it was a big one as I recall.

[MrFreeze]

For an intelligent discussion on the "rising" of a 9mm:

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=128636

Travis

[fiVe]

Blackhawk,

You've said the grips are comfortable. How much of your hand fits? Is there room for your pinky? Would the grips work for stubby-type fingers?

R/fiVe

[Will Fennell]

Blackhawk,
While I agree with Anthony, and knowing him I HATE to do that, that I would have liked to see this pistol with proper sights, its YOUR pistol, and as long as you like it, all is well. But.....

Bullets don't rise above the line set by the axis of the bore. They may, and usually do rise above the line of sight, but not above the line determined where the bore points.

If you have made a scientific discovery otherwise, myself[shooter], and ballisticians the the world over will be very interested.

Back to the R9....amn, I wish they would have put decent sights on that thing. The smaller and wimpier the sidearm, the MORE important sights are......

[PCRCCW]

Ill agree with Grump on this one..the "rising" bullet theory is the POA/POI the guns makers and designers have to compensate for the recoil/torque the gun is experiencing as the bullet passes out the muzzle............

Shoot well..........

[Blackhawk]

fiVe,

Do you have or have access to a P-32 or P-3AT? I'll describe how they fit my hand. When squeezing the grip tightly, all the pressure is applied to the backstrap and the inner pads of my middle and ring finger, but only half of my ring finger engages the grip. There's NO pressure on the palm of my hand or those two fingers contacting the left side of the grip. Furthermore, KT uses a pointy checker pattern on the sides of the grip that's like a bunch of sharp little pyramids digging into your skin. On the backstrap and front of the grip, KT uses vertical grooves. All in all, the KT grip is probably the least likely to slip if you had to grab the gun with a hand immediately pulled from a can of axle grease. The problem, for me anyway, is that there's no way I can describe a tight grip on a KT mouser as anything but painful.

Now I'll describe the Rohrbaugh grip, subjectively again, of coruse. The backstrap and front of the grip are totally smooth and curved. The grips themselves are contoured so that a cross section of the entire butt of the gun is more oval shaped than the KTs. Consequently, my palm and fingers make much more contact with the grips themselves so that when you increase the pressure, it's evenly distributed. No matter how hard I squeeze, I can't make it painful. Technically, the length of the front of the grip is the same as on the KT's. However, the Rohrbaugh trigger guard curves up allowing the middle finger to be higher up on the grip. The net result is that it's worth another quarter of my ring finger being able to be on the grip. Since the "half-in-the-middle" of a finger is what does all the work, having 3/4 of my ring finger on the grip means that it's essentially fully engaged. My pinky doesn't engage the grip at all.

Except for being shorter, the Rohrbaugh's grip is every bit as comfortable as the best M1911 I've ever had. It's all solid and non compliant unlike, for example, the rubberized grips of a Taurus PT-145, which, IMO, has the most comfortable grip of any pistol I've ever handled.

One of the problems in shooting the small KT's accurately is that you MUST have a tight grip on them because recoil changes your grip a bit. However, since a tight grip is painful before the first shot, you tend to relax it a bit while aiming, etc. When you add a finger extension to them, your pinky gets into the action letting you maintain a tighter grip, and accuracy improves dramatically. I'm sure that a finger extension will make the Rohrbaugh SEEM to give you a better grip, but I'm not convinced that it will have much if any effect on accuracy because the tightest grip I can put on it is still comfortable.

HTH

[Blackhawk]

I wish they would have put decent sights on that thing. The smaller and wimpier the sidearm, the MORE important sights are......
Guess we'll just have to disagree on that too, Will. This ISN'T a sidearm. It's a pocket pistol. The difference is that a sidearm is what you use to fight your way to a real weapon or as a last resort when your real weapon is just a memory. A pocket pistol is something that you have in a stealth condition to use when nothing else is available, even retreat.

Sights on a pocket pistol are good for bragging rights at the range. My favorite trick shot is between the eyes of a silhouette target at 50' with a P-32. However, I can guarantee you that if I ever NEEDED to use the P-32, the sights wouldn't play any part in the situation. They're good for learning how to point shoot, and that's about it. Pocket pistols are for up-close-and-personal encounters.

A sidearm should be good for sighted shots out to 50 yards, maybe even 100. With the necessarily short sight radius of a pocket pistol, any "accurate" shot at that range can only be described as "lucky."

Because of its comfortable and consistent grip, I'm confident that the Rohrbaugh is going to be a natural pointer, so the sights are even less important. (The P-32/P-3AT KT's are not natural pointers because they're hard to grip.)

So here's the bottom line: Dovetailed sights interefere with a stealth draw from a pocket, period. Considering all my gripes about the heel mag release on the Rohrbaugh interfering with my pocket draw, I SURE don't want that compounded by protrusions on the other "side" of the gun! As for ANY sights on a pocket gun, I'd rather have them and not need them than the other way around, but their major purpose is just to help you learn how to accurately point shoot the gun.

[JackDRipper]

Blackhawk could you post a picture of the Rohrbaugh and the P3AT when you get a chance? I would really like the see the size comparison of the two. Thanks,
JR

[Blackhawk]

Jack,

When I can carve out several hours, I plan to take the whole panopoly of photos, external, internal, and comparative. They'll be posted on a separate thread.

Meanwhile, I'm sure Jeff's taking a bunch of pictures of his, and I'm sure he'll be making them available before long. Since I got the first delivered gun, maybe I should let him put up the first photos, especially since that's the type of thing he does for a living. :D

[Missouri Mule]

....45R said!!!!

are these a commercially produced pistol?

Where to buy?

where to see...a.k.a. fondle ( PC version) !:D

[Andrew Wyatt]

the bullets don't rise because of aerodynamics.

the bullets rise because the barrel rotated upwards in recoil.

[longeyes]

"The skill level to field strip it is relatively high and requires strong hands. It's not going to be a gun that the average gun store clerk can demonstrate on your whim. However, the skills to do it are quickly learned once you understand how the precision parts fit together. Once I had it figured out, it only took 20 minutes to get it back together, but 19 of those were spent looking for the assembly pin, which mysteriously ran off while I was admiring the recoil assembly."

Uh-oh...

[Blackhawk]

Andrew,

Maybe we should have an election to settle it. :rolleyes:

[Bainx]

Hey, it just dawned on me....with the price of these things, if I could sell just a couple dozen, I could send my daughters thru college!:D

[Blackhawk]

There's some REALLY bad news ahead for you, Bainx! :what:

You must not have checked what the cost of college is lately. That amount would cover ONE student for about ONE year less such pesky details as books, meals, clothes, housing, and stuff like that. But that's only if you could get the full retail price without having to pay anything for them yourself.

Or, were you considering something like a trade college of some sort...? :D

[Correia]

Ppffsssss.... Pay for college? Maybe buy her books. Bainx I sure hope you have a good investment plan! :D

[Doug S]

4 pages of posts & no real range report yet. Are you guys waiting for the weekend to put these pistols through a good function test? They may look like a jewel, but do they work?;) Enquiring minds what to know. I'll admit, I don't mind looking at pistols, but that said I'd much rather shoot the stare.

[mini14jac]

Congrats Blackhawk!
You've got to feel like Ralphie on Christmas morning!
Now be careful and don't shoot yer eye out!

I've gotten guns before, after waiting for a year or so.
It's really great when they meet all of your expectations.
The NAA Guardian didn't.
The PM9 did.
I hope that little work of art is everything you've been looking for in a pocket pistol.

When we started discussing the gun here, I thought "There's no way I'd pay that much for a gun."
Since then, I've bought the two most expensive handguns I've ever owned!:(

So, who's to say I'd never plunk down cash on a Rohrbaugh.

Looking forward to a full range report, with pics.

And I'm always glad when another American company starts producing fine firearms, whether I'm interested in the guns or not.

[Andrew Wyatt]

Andrew, Maybe we should have an election to settle it

Physics (in this case the specific portions dealing with recoil and ballistic external ballistics) is not up for debate.

All guns recoil, even 900 dollar pocket pistols. in doing so, the muzzle rises. this launches the projectile at a higher angle than the barrel was originally pointing at. That's why snubby sights depart so much from being coaxial with the bore.

[ajacobs]

I certainly agree with you andrew but it appears you and blackhawk are talking about 2 different things. I believe what blackhawk is saying that regardless of the recoil of the gun while the bullet is still in the barrel thus the need for the angle of sights, that if you had a peice of paper at 1 meeter and at ten meters and the bullet exactly impacted the x at one meter it would be higher than the x at the ten meter point by a measurable distance.

Now this is the first I had ever heard of it and I certainly haven't studyied it enough to know if he is right but what I assumed is that given gravity it would be lower.

[Blackhawk]

ajacobs, you're right. Keep in mind that all the factors have to be within narrow parameters for the phenomena to occur. The 9mm 115gr FMJ just happens to fall within them pretty well so as to be a good demonstrator.

Andrew, I was being sarcastic. Of course elections don't have any effect on physics, but dogmatic statements without foundation are useless, except in politics.

[Blackhawk]

mini14jac, thank you. I'm enjoying the pistol immensely! :D

[greg531mi]

Thank you Blackhawk for your reports, I am wondering what trigger pull it has? My Pony as you know has a lousy one, but I never had a problem with the mag release, or the slide catch/take down lever, like some. My Autauga has a nasty mag release on the grips, you need uncut fingernails for that one. My Jennings has one like the R-9, it catches but is simple, and it works.
The Colt Pocket 9 had problems with the springs, but I heard Wolf make better ones like the R-9 with progresive springs. Must be supplying them to the R-9, I guess...
What do you see in problems?
I feel that a $1000 gun, is well worth it if it shoots and cyles all the time. HK's, Kimbers, and others cost that much. The problem I see here, is like Seecamp, too many dealers out there will be selling them for twice retail. Supply and demand...
The other thing I like about the gun, is that it is American made and owned, and that the company is devoted to making a quality product. Too many times, they care only for profits and not quality.
You told us that you are reviewing this gun for various magazines, and I for one am glad, that a objective writer like you, will be doing the review, too many in the business, are not objective.
Another American success story, we hope. Maybe the other American
manufacturers will look again, at pocket pistols...

[Blackhawk]

Hello, Greg,

I haven't put it on the trigger scale yet, but my "calibrated" finger tells me 6-7 pounds when I'm refreshed and 7-8 pounds late in the day when I'm tired. It's very smooth with no staging and a nice release without perceptible overtravel.

The way the whole gun is made and designed plus the robustness of the parts leads me to believe that this will be one of the most reliable and trouble free guns ever made. The mechanism is technically simple, and there are no compromises on the parts themselves. If you've ever had the pleasure of examining the internal workings of a Walther PPK, you'll have an idea of the elegant design, construction and craftsmanship this pistol has. The PPK has, however, a much more complicated design.

So far, my only two complaints are the heel mag release, but I'm convinced that I'll never like any variation of them as long as I live, so I have to confess a general bias against them. If there's anybody who likes them, I'd like to know why. The other complaint is about the manual. I don't have the final version, but the one I have seems like it was written by a lawyer with a heavy "DON'T" helmet on. It's internally inconsistent and not very well written. For example, it calls the action a combination of locked breech and blowback. That's like being half pregnant. The action is locked breech, period. Again, I'm from the old school of tech writing, and I know that they're very hard to do right and the copy MUST be vetted through technical and EDITORIAL experts, so my bias may be aligned against it as well.

I'd like to see Rohrbaugh provide an assembly pin alignment tool to facilitate field stripping because even though a person with strong hands can do it, I don't think the average owner will be able to without resorting to some way that will mar the finish. However, any such tool I can think of right now would probably scare a prospective buyer off!

I'm already looking forward to getting my next two R-9s! I NEED at least three of these guns! I really, really do! :D

[NJ3]

I'd like to see Rohrbaugh provide an assembly pin alignment tool to facilitate field stripping because even though a person with strong hands can do it, I don't think the average owner will be able to without resorting to some way that will mar the finish. However, any such tool I can think of right now would probably scare a prospective buyer off!

Blackhawk

I know you've waited a long time for this pistol, so it's great that you finally have it. But I am disappointed to read that field stripping is a bear. From what I've read at Rohrbaugh Firearms (http://www.rohrbaughfirearms.com/product/prod_set.html) this was not to be the case, "Mechanism is simple and easy to dissemble and reassemble so the proper maintenance can be done by anyone, and so that functioning reliability can be maintained." I just can't visualize how a locked breech pistol can be so complex to field strip. That fact may scare off prospective buyer's also, not that I would be turned off by that alone. Is it just the size of the pistol that is the issue in field stripping? I can wait for more reviews and detailed pictures of the R9 to see the procedure. The R9 is an interesting pistol and I read all the information that I can find on it, maybe I'll have one in the future. But right now my PM9 suits my needs for a small 9 mm.

[Blackhawk]

It's not complexity that's the problem with field stripping. Here's the sequence:

1. Pull the slide back about 3mm so the larger hole on the left side is aligned with the assembly pin (which does not travel with the slide).

2. While holding the slide in that position, use a 1/16" diameter punch or dowel through the hole in the right side of the slide to push the assembly pin out the left side of the slide.

That IS very simple, but holding the slide aligned while repositioning the gun to use the punch in the hole in the right side WITHOUT the slide moving is easier said than done. Once you do it a few times, it becomes easy, but it's not going to pass the "weak novice" test, IMO.

The best solution I can think of is to install a slide lock and move the holes in the slide so they align when the slide is locked open. That would make field stripping every bit as simple as the average self stuffer. The only external tool that would be needed is something to push the pin out. Racking the gun is very easy compared to what you'd expect for a full 9mm in a gun this short, but as I said, a couple of young blondes were able to rack it the first time, and I find very few females who can even rack a P-11 or P-3AT.

The slide lock would cure another "problem" in states that require gun locks. The Rohrbaugh ships with one of those cable locks that goes through the magazine well and out the top of the slide. Using it or removing it is also a three hand job. However, Rohrbaugh could "cure" the gun lock by using one of those finish destroying gizmos that come with Kel Tecs -- the ones that go in the trigger guard behind the trigger.

So at this point, I want to see two modifications: (1) a slide lock; and (2) a grip magazine release. Both, IMO, are essential for market acceptance in the intended genre. Fortunately, there's plenty of frame metal available to install an automatic slide lock (no external release), and there's plenty of space to install a mag release button right in front of the grip in the back web of the trigger guard. Neither would affect the width of the pistol at all, and at worst, the left grip may get a cutout if the mag release button was made in its simplest form to just move perpendicular to the grip.

[alamo]

That sounds easier than taking the slide off a Seecamp or an Autauga. That can be a bit tricky till you get the hang of it.

[Blackhawk]

I just got a call from Karl Rohrbaugh! (They are reading THR! :D )

1. The manual. It's going to the printer next week, and sure enough, there are lawyer tracks all over it based on "due caution" about warnings that you can shoot yourself or somebody else with a gun. All that junk is to prevent being sued from not giving owners notice of that fact. DUH! We do live in a highly litigous society where nobody wants to take responsibility for their own actions, however. Regarding the locked breech/ blowback faux pax, that's the kind of screwup that happens when amateurs get on a word processor....

2. They have no inquiry from WildAlaska, either by email or telephone. WildAlaska, just call them and identify yourself as WildAlaska! They're waiting for your call. Better yet, send Eric an email identifying yourself, and maybe the communications failure can be resolved. Eric's email is ecrone@optonline.net (will somebody please PM him with this info? TIA)

3. The mag release catching on the draw is being fixed by eliminating the seam catching gap (which will also make the gun "shorter"). Couldn't get him to commit to an American style grip release. Their internal research based on interviews with LEA's, etc., showed that the bigger concern was the mag being released when sitting on the gun, etc., and that can't happen with the heel release. Oh well, but I'm not giving up on that!

4. Warm reception on the slide lock. We'll just have to wait and see, but I'm positive that any early guns will be eligible for upgrades as time goes on just as with Kel Tec.

5. I forgot to specefically ask about the +P and +P+ issue, but I'm personally sure that it's another paranoid lawyer concern. Bottom line is if the gun kabooms, they're going to fix it under warranty anyway. Sure as I'm still alive, somebody's going to run all the tests anybody can think of with the hottest ammo available, and I'm also sure that the hammering of the gun won't be any different than when using "standard ammo," whatever that's supposed to encompass in 9mm! :rolleyes: Fact is, with the short barrel, I'll bet a lot of standard ammos is hotter than +P, etc.

6. Since The One And Only Wolff of Wolff Gun Springs was a major player in the design and manufacture of the recoil springs, they're going to be available from them. Karl says he replaces the big spring every few hundred rounds on his personal gun, and it's got 3,000 rounds through it.

7. He wondered who's ever been attacked by ballistic gelatin. I don't know either.... I suggest the watermelon test with three of them plus a P-32, a P-3AT (or other .380 ACP), and a 9mm (preferably a R9-s, if you can bribe somebody who owns one... :D ). Shoot each watermelon once with each gun. Take photos. Choose your preferred mouser.

8. He's going to send me pictures of the "really easy way" he field strips the gun. Maybe I'll have to reconsider my opinion on that, but if an average female can't field strip it "easily", I'm going to be all over the slide lock suggestions with renewed vigor.

As Jeff and others have pointed out, the folks at Rohrbaugh welcome and LISTEN to feedback. Give them feedback about your concerns, not just your praise. They may not have time to respond, but don't think for a second that they're not paying attention!

I've been very successful in my life by being objective, and despite what some of you may think, I'm not a rose-colored-glasses commentator on all things Rohrbaugh. I'll call them like I see them, and I'll pass out orchids and onions as the situation calls for. If there's anything that needs to be addressed that keeps this from being a "perfect" pocket pistol, I want it changed, and this gun is so close to being just that, it's staggering! :D

[Blackhawk]

That sounds easier than taking the slide off a Seecamp or an Autauga. That can be a bit tricky till you get the hang of it. I've never tried to field strip one of those, but some of the gun commando crocodiles get hung up about the quality, etc., of a gun based on whether or not the gun shop clerk can field strip it before their eyes. I've had P-11s that you can't get apart without first firing a few mags through them, and I've heard stories about the near impossiblity of clerks to field strip Taurus automatics, etc.

"Field stripping" is a military concept because that's what's necessary to maintain combat readiness in untidy environments. I've field stripped at the range many times, but it's typically just a cleaning routine at home.

I don't really understand the hostility toward Rohrbaughs unless it's got something to do with some kind of weird jealousy. As Mike says, if one's not for you at the price, don't worry about it. It's just another gun, after all.

I love my Kel Tecs, and one or more is still a constant carry companion. But that's just like my bought-as-junk 4 year old wrecked Ford I bought in high school. Even after I'd rebuilt and repaired it, I didn't really trust it down to the soles of my feet. Same way with the Jaguar XK-E I had. On it, the Brits apparently thought replacing all radiator hoses every 2-3 years was what should be expected, and they also thought an aluminum radiator with a cast iron block "should" give good service for a few years. I've never had a failure with my KTs, but a few things about them would make me nervous if I had to bail out over the Amazon and depend on them for food and protection. The Rohrbaugh just exudes that confident aura that it's going to be as dependable as a rock. Maybe a KT would be more reliable in the jungle, but there wouldn't be any nagging doubt in the back of my mind with a Rohrbaugh. In a similar vein, I never worried in the least about flying Grumman airplanes (affectionately dubbed "Grumman Iron Works" by military pilots), but somehow flying those built by some of the other manufacturers caused part of the brain to keep track of where to put the thing down or how to get out of it.

[Wildalaska]

Blackhawk I just sent an email thanks for your help

WildturduckenAlaska

[Kestrel]

They should NOT change the mag release to an American style. The heel release IS more reliable in a pocket gun. It's more of a pyschological problem to some than one of reality. The heel release can be very fast, if you practice. Also, this gun is not a 1911 speed gun. It's role is different and the heel release is the CORRECT choice in the design. Keep it.

Steve

[Jeff OTMG]

Wildalaska, Karl also said to call. They have an 800 number for you to use and if nobody picks up the phone goes to Eric's mobile phone during the day. Just remember that they are in the Eastern time zone and you are somewhere near Japan. ;)

No last shot hold open, makes the gun wider. If you add an actual slide stop it gets even wider. THINK SEECAMP.

No 'American style' mag release, makes the gun wider. This gun fits nicely in the back pocket, no chance of ejecting the mag when you sit on the button. Less chance of ejecting it while shooting as well. THINK SEECAMP.

This gun was never intended to get you into or out of a firefight. It might allow you to get far enough away to run, so it was never designed with speed reloads in mind. Eric, nor Karl, nor I carry reloads for this gun.

It will not handle +p or +p+. Use RBCD at standard pressure (how's that for a plug). The aluminum frame will not take constant pounding of +p. If they made the gun as big as a Colt Commander and could use a full size recoil system and heavier slide then it could, but to get this small it is standard pressure only. The slide velocities are just too high. I am sure you could run a mag through and carry +p, but a steady diet is a no-no. When they come out with one with a stainless frame that weighs 22-24 oz I am sure it will be fine.

This pistol was designed to be the smallest, lightest 9mm auto available. That means standard pressure ammo, heel butt mag release, and no slide lock. Quit trying to make bigger or being something that it wasn't designed to be.

[9x19]

Jeff,

Quit trying to make bigger or being something that it wasn't designed to be.

You never let us have any fun... :D

So... how's it performing?

[pinepig2]

I'd like to second Steve and Jeff's opinion on not changing to an American-style mag release. I'd purchase a Rohrbaugh for ankle or ballistic vest carry while on duty (it's seems perfect for this role), and would not carry a spare mag. I might occasionaly carry it off-duty in a pocket, again without an extra mag. In either case I would greatly prefer the security and low profile of the heel release, even if I changed my mind about a spare mag.

Last shot hold open would not be a critical feature for me. However, I'd be willing to sacrifice a bit of slimness for a slide catch, given Blackhawk's description of the "field" stripping process. I'd be afraid of marring the gun with a punch without one. An internal catch with a flush button ala the HK P7 would seem ideal for this gun (I love this about the P7). I'm sure HK's patent on this has long since run out. And with this type of catch lever, I believe only a slight change in the magazine design would give you last shot hold open.

What would really kill the elegant design of the Rohrbaugh would be to tack on a slide release lever similar to the Kahr's.:barf:

[Blackhawk]

I'm not in favor of ANYTHING that will make the gun wider or in any way mess with its elegant aesthetics.

I can agree with keeping the heel mag release IF it's pared down so as to not have a gap running parallel to the grip ready to catch anything that may be in the way when you're trying to draw. That gap manages to catch the seams on two of the different styles of pants pockets I've tried to draw the gun from. I don't carry in the back pocket, BTW. Instead of the nicely formed release that came with the gun, I'd rather have it filed down (as Karl suggested) so as to make it considerably smaller and likewise eliminating the gap. Since it moves from front to rear (barrel orientation), grooves would give it as good a grip as you can get with the present release. The added benefit is that the height of the gun would be reduced considerably. What persuaded me is the absence of a need for speed reloads of a pocket gun. If you need more than 7 shots from a pocket pistol, you need backup or air support more than another mag.

There's plenty of room for an internal automatic slide lock actuated by an empty magazine like the P-32 and other guns. PPKs have the same thing. An external slide release is what requires the extra width.

The biggest arguments for the slide lock don't really involve empty gun indication, which is apparent with a "click" when you pull the trigger, and no matter the reason, a click requires racking. They involve field stripping and "locking" the gun to comply with certain states' laws. Karl's photos may reveal how a weak person can easily field strip the gun, and I hope that's the case. I don't live in a state that requires gun locks, but I sympathize with those who do. The "standard" gun lock requires 3 hands, but an easy and inexpensive solution to that is a Kydex pocket holster with holes drilled behind the trigger so a padlock can effectively lock the trigger. Think I'll make one just to see.... :D

[meltap]

I think a few people may have lost sight of what the R9 represents, mainly an always” or “mouse” or “vest pocket” gun in a REAL caliber with real sights, something that can be carried with ZERO chance of detection with shorts and T shirt in hot weather while still allowing fairly FAST access. I would rather have a 1911 or a Glock or a M4, but sometimes that is not possible. And even with a 1911 or Glock, I still like to have an “always” as a backup/hideout.

I have been on a 20-year quest for an “always” gun that shoots and hits like a real gun. The problem has always been that anything that was small enough was a joke, power wise. Until the last 1970s, the only things that were in this size were the 22s and 25s such as the TPH, TP-22 or the colt/browning 25s. In the 1980s and 1990s we had 32s of similar size, mainly the Seecamp and eventually P-32. Recently, we have had the p-3AT in 380, still with marginal sights and only throwing a 90g bullet at roughly 900fps that will not both expand and penetrate.

The R9's 2.7" barrel should be able to throw a +P 125 Gold Dot at about 1100fps (occasional use only), which is in the real gun category IMHO. If it works, if it is fairly durable, and if its ergonomics are good enough, this will be a large step up from the P-3AT and way ahead of where “always” guns were 20 years ago.

1. I would almost rather not have a slide stop - one more thing that can go wrong - this puppy is a at the nasty end of current technology as it is- adding complexity seems to be asking for trouble.

2. I would rather have a heel mag release - thumb mag releases sometimes become depressed in the pocket (as Blackhawk has pointed out).

3.I have spent far more on custom pistols. Canceling the cable and cell phone for a year would just about cover the cost. Or just sell a few "safe queens."

There are two remaining critical questions:
1. Does it always go bang when you want it to? 100% reliability and sufficient durability as essential.

2. Does it not go bang when you do not want it to? Safety is essential in an "always" gun

I am patiently looking forward to the range reports for the first 2000 rounds.

[Blackhawk]

Welcome to THR, meltap! :D

Actually, Karl Rohrbaugh pointed out the advantage of the heel mag release to me vis-a-vis the accidental release in the back pocket. I just reported it. Another advantage of "this" mag release is that even when it is disengaged, the mag won't fall out. The spring tension of the release against the mag tube keeps it in place, so if you don't intend for the mag to come out even if it is released, it won't. You guys are doing a good job of selling me on the heel mag release! :D

Karl's got 3,000+ rounds through his, but his range report may not be given the awe it should because he's an "interested party." We also have to keep in mind that if any bugs were found, he was the perfect person to fix them!

Unlike many new products rushed to market, these guns were thoroughly wrung out over the last year when the first prototypes were made. The last major redesign came about in about May when the barrel and slide were extended by about 1/8" to accommodate a more robust recoil spring assembly. You have to think about that for a minute. There were hundreds of people, not to mention investors, crying for the gun to be released -- a gun representing not only the fortune of the brothers but 6 years of their lives -- yet something wasn't "quite" right, and the only decision acceptable to them was to delay the gun's release until everything was perfect. Maybe there is, but I don't know of ANY other company that wouldn't just dump the "final testing" onto the buyers.

I personalize it. They didn't want ME trusting MY life to a gun with THEIR name on it that wasn't 100% ready to do its job! I had the same confidence in Martin-Baker ejection seats, but MB was paid for perfection through government contracts, but these guys paid for it themselves with their "everything." I have no choice but to admire and respect that!

Karl told me he replaces his big recoil spring every 250 rounds. The manual says to have a gunsmith (qualified, by implication) inspect it every year, I presume to test the springs plus clean and lube it. Again it reminds me of those Martin-Bakers. Every few flying hours, they were required to have thorough maintenance inspections just because ANY failure to perform was unacceptable.

Will the gun go 2,000 rounds on +P ammo without changes of the recoil springs? I'm POSITIVE it will, but a range report to that effect would have little if any real value. A range report of one going through 3,000 rounds of standard ammo after having its springs changed 10 times would be valuable because it assures me that the NEXT time the trigger is pulled it's going to go BANG, and that's what I really care about.

A certain degree of owner skill is necessary to have confidence that the next couple of times you pull the trigger on, for example, a Kel Tec that it's going to fire. They won't run dry, and they must be broken in. Higher serial numbers are desired among them because you "think" KT's progressively improved the manufacturing process.

I'll be EXTREMELY surprised and disappointed if anybody reports any functional failures with a R9 out of the box. Mine was clean and lubed and ready to load, rack and fire. James Bond would be happy to just load and tuck it away before setting out on his next mission to save the world.... :D

[coverdog]

So when are these guns going to be shot instead of just plugged constantly?:D

[Sven]

Yeah, with all due respect, there seems to be a lot of talking and very little SHOOTING or PICTURE/MOVIE TAKING going on here, which is a little suspicious. ;) ;)

[Blackhawk]

Sadly, not all of us are blessed by living in venues where we can just step outside and blast away.... :(

[tomkatz]

I've been reading/enjoying this thread for days now, and I for one am very excited about aquiring one of these guns. I put off buying the kahr pm9 waiting for this gun, the pm9 just never seemed quite perfect to me. I am a kahr guy, I own several steel kahr guns, but the more I read here I think the rohrbaugh just may be the bug for me.
Anyway, I look forward to the first range report, and congrats to jeff and blackhawk for being the first to own these beauties ;) .....tom

[Blackhawk]

This aren't the pictures I was going to post, but they illustrate several of the points already made in this thread.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=677529

This is with the gun in a DeSantis Nemesis holster:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=677533

This is opposite a P-3AT:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=677544

This shows some of the fine machine work. Note the machined curves:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=677559

This is a close up of the mag release:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=677560

Muzzle view:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=677564

View from the back of the slide:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=677568

Right rear quarter view:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=677570

[Blackhawk]

Hammer cocked just before release:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=677577

Chamber locked. The hole is where the "punch" to push the assembly pin out is inserted:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=677582

Assembly pin halfway out:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=677585

Pin out, slide assembly removed:


http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=677589

Closer view of recoil spring assembly:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=677594

The heavy spring and cap come apart easily:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=677597

Guess what this is:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=677603

[USGuns]

Thanks for the pics Blackhawk.
I can't quite make it out, what does the inscription on the left side of the slide say/mean?

[WonderNine]

Wow, that's a steep feedramp.

I can see why they want to modify the heel mag release, it does stick out too far. I do prefer a heel mag release on a pocket gun though. I wish the smallest Kahr's had this type of mag release.

Looks like it says " Farmingdale R.D."

[Blackhawk]

"Farmingdale, N.Y."

The inscription on the opposite side of the slide, also at the front, says: "Rohrbaugh R9-s" in that same script.

The serial number is on the frame on the right side under that script when the slide is in battery.

[Blackhawk]

You can't quite see the feed ramp. The picture is deceptive. The feed ramp is highly polished and not nearly as steep as it appears in the picture.

I haven't got the macro focus figured out on my camera yet to get a good shot of the feed ramp, but it wasn't for a lack of effort! :D

[NJ3]

Thanks for the pictures Blackhawk. I understand the field stripping issue's now.

Fit and finish appear to be first class, much nicer than my PM9. :uhoh:

[Bren]

Blackhawk, the pic of it next to the Kel-tec should be followed with ANY QUESTIONS? :D

Damn, I've owned darn near every "pocket nine" but this one truely is. The price and the "unknown" still has me on the fence cause I've had them slivers before! :p

Thanks for the pic's! Bren

[Sven]

A picture is indeed worth many words.

[9x19]

Sadly, not all of us are blessed by living in venues where we can just step outside and blast away....

Man!

A nice place in the country should have been your first purchase! :D

If you didn't spend so much on pocket guns... blah blah blah... :neener:

Nice pics... and we're still hoping it actually works! :evil:

[meltap]

Blackhawk: do you know what 9mm ammo was used for testing by Rohrbaugh? Are any particular 9mm commercial offerings listed in the manual?

This small of a 9mm is necessarily going to have serious timing constraints between slide velocity and mag-spring-preasure differences between the first and last round. There will likely be some rounds that will handle extreme circumstances better than others (e.g., pocket lint, very cold weather, no lube). Of course I clean and lube my pieces regularly, but murphy's law is always in the background.

While ideally the R9 will work 100% with every 9mm spec offering, I would be happy with only one good one that works 100%. If you or others are going to go to the trouble of doing reliability testing, it might make sense to do those tests with rounds that are most likely to succeed.

[Blackhawk]

I don't know what ammo they use for testing, and there isn't any factory recommend ammo listed in the manual. Basically, use any standard pressure factory ammo.

I'll be surprised if the gun is ammo sensitive.

[Blackhawk]

The price and the "unknown" still has me on the fence cause I've had them slivers before! Bren, that normally would have been my position. However, I spent a bunch of years in the machining and metal fabrication business as a designer and manufacturer so I could identify with the problems they faced. Since they weren't going to use any shortcuts or gamey materials or exotic methods (like attaching steel rails to plastic or aluminum frames), I felt comfortable with the design.

The only decision point for me was how well they actually made their product. Something like they were making from the materials they were using simply won't work if it's not done right.

I have to admit being hacked about something, though. This gun COULD have been made more than 35 years ago by Colt, S&W, Ruger, and other well known manufacturers. None of them did or even attempt to. I'm just glad I've lived long enough for these few guys in New York to act on the dream that MANY of us fence sitters have had for a very long time. I'm also glad they put THEIR money where MY mouth has been in advocating such a gun for such a long time. As for price, I look at it as a Korth quality gun built under a no compromises design at 1/5 the price.

[meltap]

Blackhawk wrote: "I have to admit being hacked about something, though. This gun COULD have been made more than 35 years ago by Colt, S&W, Ruger, and other well known manufacturers. None of them did or even attempt to."

Four things have changed in the last 35 years that together make a big difference:

1. Better steel and alloys - Were materials available in 1965 that could handle the pressure and pounding with a barrel this thin and with a slide this short while still producing a piece of this weight?

2. CAD - someone could have eventually developed the design, but the R&D costs would have been much higher precluding company success. How much did Rohrbaugh use CAD vs just a ton of R&D trial and error? A good finite element program might have been used to simulate dynamic barrel pressure as the slide unlocks simplifying the design process. And a good CAD program might have been used to simulate feeding operations with different springs, greatly reducing development time and prototyping.

3. Super-quality NC machining. Think about what it would cost to have a 1965 high-paid tool&die machinist make a set of slides and frames to these specifications. The cost of the piece would be way too high to market successfully.

4. Hardly anyone had CCWs in 1965, so there was little market preasure for such a piece, again precluding company success.

[mini14jac]

Blackhawk,
Thanks for the great pics.

The recoil assy. is almost a duplicate of the Colt Defender system.

Is it just an optical illusion, or is the Rohrbaugh almost the exact same size as the P32?

Can you put them side by side, and get a photo from the rear, to compare thickness?

I'm hoping the Rohrbaugh will shoot Winchester White box ammo.
That's the main 9mm I shoot.

[mini14jac]

Everything meltap said is right on the money.

CAD and CNC machining are probably the two things that make this gun possible.

Colt now has the Defender, which is a 22.5 oz .45 with a 3" barrel, and it's reliable.
But, the engineering involved was minimal, as it is still a "cocked and locked" 1911-style gun.
(Don't get me wrong. A gun this size, that is light, shootable, and accurate, is awesome. It's just not an "always gun".)
They were headed in the right direction with the Pocket Nine, but chose to steal the technology instead of paying for it.

Ruger may eventually make CCW guns, now that Bill is gone.
If they can get over the whole "way over-built" thing.
Time will tell.

Kahr could have made this gun, but I read somewhere that they couldn't get alloy and titainium prototypes to hold up like the polymer does. :confused:

Glock obviously doesn't understand the concept of Concealed Carry. :rolleyes: :confused: :banghead:

S&W is doing some great things with ultra-ultra-light revolvers, but don't seem interested in new technology, lightweight autos.

Keltec will probably come out with a (long overdue) single-stack 9mm, maybe even at the 2004 Shot Show.
But, it will be polymer.
I've got several polymer guns, but I like steel/alloy guns better.

The CCW market has really exploded in the last 5-10 years, but manufacturers have seemed reluctant to invest funds in the research and technology required to produce carry guns that are small, shootable, reliable, and durable .

Hats off to ya, Rohrbaugh!:D

[Blackhawk]

meltap,

1. Yep.

2. No biggie there either. All CAD systems do is enable amateur designers to come up with professional results or make a professional's job easier. There's still no substitute for a designer's vision. Take a look at turbine AC engines of the '50s. No CAD systems existed then.

3. Again, hearken back to those turbine AC engines, radial AC engines, AC insntruments (including gyros), or even mechanical chronographs, etc. In our modern day arrogance, we tend to think that the old timers didn't know how to do anything. On the contrary, they were absolute geniuses by comparison.

4. I bought my first CCW in 1965. It was a MAB .32 semi-automatic. CCWs were common, and society was more polite because of them.

[Blackhawk]

mini14jac,

It's NOT an optical illusion! The R9 is a bit wider. The P-3AT's is about 0.750" (0.845" at the assembly pin) and the R9's is about 0.810". The WONDERFUL grips on the R9 make the overall width about 0.880", but I'm ecstatic about the tremendously improved comfort.

BTW, my P-3AT in its Kydex holster combination is 0.990" wide and my R9 is 0.987" wide in its Kydex holster combination! :D

[Blackhawk]

CAD and CNC machining are probably the two things that make this gun possible.

Can't agree there. All CAD does is make the design process more efficient, therefore more economical. Likewise with CNC machines -- they're nothing more than automated machine tools, and they require a HIGHER level of skill to run them EXCLUSIVE of programming. They can make thousands of substandard parts before the problems are noticed. How many of those parts will make it into guns? That, in essence, is the QC problem Kel Tec has had. All tooling (bits, mills, etc.) wear, and there's no compromise with having superior inspection systems and skilled people in place to tend the output of CNC machine tools.

With investment castings, MIM, etc., you can make more complicated parts than can be made on either conventional or CNC machine tools, but I'm not alone in NOT wanting any such parts in a CCW. (BTW, they've been around since the '60s too. Sintered Metal Alloy parts....)

[ABBOBERG]

Are you implying that Rohrbaugh is NOT using any MIM parts in their guns?
If they did, this could greatly reduce the selling price!

[Lightsped]

That R9 looks like a cool little gun. Without going back through and reading all the pages of this thread, I'd like to find out where I can get a R9 and how much they are going for?

[Blackhawk]

Are you implying that Rohrbaugh is NOT using any MIM parts in their guns?
If they did, this could greatly reduce the selling price!

To my knowledge, they are not using any MIM parts. I've looked them all over without detecting any indication of them, and I've asked the Rohrbaughs in times past.

As for as using MIM parts providing any greater economy, that's a false assumption. The upfront tooling costs are substantial, even though the per part cost is nominal. It's like saying an injected plastic part costs $1 compared to its metal counterpart that costs $3 without regard to the $100,000 mold cost to make the plastic part and has to be replaced after 50,000 parts! (The mold cost alone would be $2 per part.)

Here's the dilemma: A LOT of the value of the gun is in the handworking. It's NOT a mass production gun, it's more of a custom gun built to Rohrbaugh's specifications by them (kinda like Rolls Royce of old). If volume goes up to the level that justifies MIM parts (strictly from a cost standpoint), then either one of two things will happen (1) lower QC standards, or (2) employing lesser skilled personnel to get the guns out the door because skilled workers are scarce and it takes a long time to train them. The constant example of that is Kel Tec, and Kahr has again proven the principle as have Colt, S&W, and others. Kel Tec mass produces guns, and it relies on its customers to do the final QC. I'm happy with that and don't hesitate for a minute in buying any KT product. However, I wouldn't be happy giving my wife one for protection or setting out on a "save-the-world" mission with a KT just because of the niggling doubts....

[Bren]

I've owned the Colt pocket nine and lets just say I will not be looking to Colt to make a quality "pocket 9mm". :rolleyes:

I happen to agree with Blackhawk that a gun like this could have been made long ago,,,,, all we had to do was,,,,, ask John Moses Browning. :D

[Jeff OTMG]

Don't look to Ruger to have made a competing design as it is not possible in their political environment.

There are no plastic, MIM, or cast parts in a Rohrbaugh. The only stampings are in the magazine. Every part, even the trigger, hammer, and hammer strut is machined from a forged billet.

I have been to the range three times with mine already and it is a sweet shooter. I hope to be done by next weekend.

[Alan Fud]

Thank you for the pics and report on this gun. Posted by Blackhawk: ... I haven't put it on the trigger scale yet, but my "calibrated" finger tells me 6-7 pounds when I'm refreshed and 7-8 pounds late in the day when I'm tired. It's very smooth with no staging and a nice release without perceptible overtravel. ... How would you compare the trigger pull next to a Kahr? Lighter? Heavier? About the same?

[Blackhawk]

It's been too long to remember a Kahr trigger except that the one I tried was unremarkable. I pay a lot more attention to triggers now.

By my relatively crude measurement with a digital scale that measures in 1/10 pound increments, my R9's trigger breaks at about 7# measured at the finger pressure point on the trigger. Jeff will probably put it on an accurate trigger scale though.

[mini14jac]

My point about CAD systems was that 30 years ago, CAD existed, but the software was probably $20,000, and you needed a $100, 000 computer to run it.
(Ballpark numbers.)
Now, a small firm like KelTec can buy quality CAD software for $500 and run it on a $500 computer.
It puts more technology in more hands.
Klegren or Rohrbaugh can innovate, and try things they want to try.
The big company, with the expensive computer system, and the big government contract didn't have quite as much freedom.
They most likely had a spec sheet for the aircraft engine, that left little room for them to try their ideas.

In the "old days" only big companies could afford CAD systems.
Of course, there were always "draftsmen" using pecil and paper, but the process of modifying a design, or changing a design took days or weeks, compared to the few minutes it takes now.
The technology is cheaper now, enabling more people to try their hand at bringing a product to market.
The more people that you have trying something, the higher probability that someone is going to be successful.

How old is the anodized aluminum technology in the Rohrbaugh?
I'm asking, because I know that aluminum guns have been out for years, but how long has the current technology been available?
(The '70s maybe?)
Smith and Wesson came out with a "ground breaking" aluminum 5 shot revolver in what.....? the '50s?

We've got to remember that the companies that did come out with small, light autos, for the most part, put unreliable guns on the market.
This generated bad press, so the market was limited to people who were willing to spend money to get the guns to work.
(Early Walther .380s, TPH .22 are two that come to mind, but there are others.)
Many of these guns were also not very accurate, and painful to shoot as well.

I think with KelTec, Kahr, Rohrbaugh and others, we are seeing companies build on the successes of the ones that came before them, while avoiding the failures.

Quite possibly, these guns couldn't have been built until someone came up with the dual-recoil spring assembly. I know Seecamp has some of the recoil patents, but I'm not sure who else.

Could one of the "giants" have come out with this gun 20 years ago?
Probably.

Two things really came together at the same time to drive the current wave of carry guns we have now:
1. The AWB- no guns with more than 10 rounds on board.
2. Multiple states started passing "Right to Carry" laws.

We just happen to be at the "sweet spot" of concealed handgun manufacturing right now.
(Kind of like being alive when cap-n-ball technology replaced flintlock, or cartridges replaced the powder horn.)

Whatever the reasons, I'm glad these guns are here now. :D

If one of you guys get a chance, I'd love to see side-by-side photos of the R9 next to a PM9.

[harrydog]

I was pleasantly surprised when I received both a phone call and email from Eric Rohrbaugh a couple of weeks ago to tell me that they would indeed be making an all stainless steel version of the R9 sometime next year (They DO listen to input from potential customers). I'm on the list for one of them. I think that should eliminate any concerns over using +P or +P+ ammo that anyone might have. I'm really impressed that they're using 17-4 stainless rather than the more common 4xx series.
I wonder if the Rohrbaughs have gotten one of these guns into the hands of one of the gun rag testers. As skeptical as I am regarding their reviews, a positive report would surely do wonders for sales.
Looking forward to some range reports from Blackhawk and Jeff OTMG.

[Blackhawk]

I've figured out 2 independent ways to make field stripping easy enough for anybody (especially with #2) to do WITHOUT the need for a slide lock:

1. Relocate the accessory pin access holes in the slide toward the rear so that the slide only has to move back just half the diameter of the pin to line up. It will provide exactly the retention advantages of the present arrangement, and if there's a downside, I don't see it. My wife can't, but everybody else I've tried this on can easily move and hold the slide into that position merely by holding the pistol in their left hand by the back of the gun with the thumb underneath the grip and the fingers around the top of the slide. Simply squeezing the left hand easily moves the slide back far enough leaving the right hand free to manipulate the 1/8" punch type removal tool.

2. Make a plastic or non-marring accessory that hooks into the front of the trigger guard with "cams" to contact the front of the slide on each side above the recoil guide hole and below the muzzle and that curves around the top of the slide to terminate with a finger hole at about the middle or front of the ejection port. By holding the gun with the left hand more-or-less as described in #1, the owner's trigger finger goes into the finger hole, and when the hand in contracted, the slide moves back to align the accessory pin holes. That won't mar the finish and will allow easy removal of the pin.

The accessory of #2 could be of much lighter construction if #1 is implemented. With the #2 accessory by itself, there's NO need to make any changes to the pistol itself to accomplish the objective of enabling any owner to field strip the gun. Since one accessory is already needed (the punch type tool to push the pin out), another one provided by Rohrbaugh or an independent supplier isn't any big deal.

[tiberius]

Blackhawk,

Have you fired it yet? If so, do tell. I saw on the .380 thread that you were carrying it so I assume that you have and I know lots of us are interested.

Thanks

[Blackhawk]

No, I haven't, and believe it or not, I'm dithering about it!

The gun I would like to own the most is the only existing .45 ACP Luger toggle top. There were only 2 made by Georg Luger, and the other one was destroyed in testing by the Army. If I got my hands on it, would I shoot it? Its value as a collector's item would plummet!

If I got by hands on any historical firearm, would I fire it? Not if I wanted to preserve its je ne sais quois that makes it historically valuable.

Should I ever get such an opportunity, I've always hoped that I'd have enough restraint to avoid corrupting a value I don't understand by doing what comes naturally.

My R9-s is the very first one deliverd to a customer. Since then, it's unfired. It was fired before that at the factory, going through 2-3 magazines without any malfunctions, but it hasn't been fired since the historic event of being the first one delivered to a customer.

I have absolutely no qualms about carrying it and it working should the need arise. After dry firing and hand cycling plus a LOT of inspection, I have absolutely no doubts that it will work perfectly.

So, is this a museum piece or collector's item I have, or is it a gun to shove several thousand rounds through in an attempt to "prove" it?

Jeff's been to the range 3-4 times with his, the second one to be delivered, and he's wringing it out for an article he's writing (not to mention having a lot of fun).

I've even been thinking of keeping it in my safe deposit box at the bank. There might as well be something in there I think is worth having.... :D

(BTW, I've already made plans to get a few more of them....)

[NMGlocker]

I hope your not serious about carrying a firearm you've never personally shot.
If so, you have more faith in your fellow man than I do.
Trust but verify.

[P95Carry]

Hats off to the brothers ... and, this has been a most interesting thread to follow.

I look forward to report data from Jeff eventually.:)

[Blackhawk]

I hope your not serious about carrying a firearm you've never personally shot.
If so, you have more faith in your fellow man than I do.Done it before. Carried a S&W revolver in combat tours in Vietnam for 2 years and never fired it. :D

It's not a matter of faith in my fellow man, it's a matter of faith in myself to assess mechanical devices, especially guns, etc. I've never been surprised by one of my guns going off or by one not going off.

Besides, what does firing a gun prove about the next time you need it to shoot? Just because a lightbulb worked when you switched it off doesn't mean that it will work when you switch it back on, does it?

Seriously, if this thing does get relegated to being a "museum piece in waiting," I obviously won't be carrying it. Right now, I'm carrying it to get a feel for how R9s carry more than as the sole means of survival in the asphalt jungle outside my door. Everybody, especially me, really enjoyed the show-and-tell today where they got to handle it, etc.

I don't have the demeanor of being a potential victim either. I've been carrying going back more than 40 years, and I've never been in any situation where a CCW could have justifiably come into play. I avoid crowds and events like Mardi Gras where trouble is likely to be, but if it finds me, I'll just do what's necessary.

If I decide to keep this one virginal, when my next Rohrbaughs show up, I'll take out all my pent up desire to fire this one on them. I'm not Karnak, but I predict that there are plenty more Rohrbaughs in my future.... :D

[pinepig2]

Speaking of the future, what does the future hold for Rohrbaugh? I'm specifically wondering what their next model might be like (I'm predicting the company will be successful). I think the R9 looks terrific as a pocket gun, and I wouldn't want to change it. For me, however, I'd be more interested in something similar but with a 3.0" barrel and a grip long enough to accomodate one more round. Maybe that would also add enough mass to the slide to high allow higher pressure ammo. Oh yeah, and dovetailed sights (again, I wouldn't change the R9/R9s at all).

[NJ3]

Speaking of the future, what does the future hold for Rohrbaugh? I'm specifically wondering what their next model might be like (I'm predicting the company will be successful). I think the R9s looks terrific as a pocket gun, and I wouldn't want to change it. For me, however, I'd be more interested in something similar but with a 3.1" barrel and a grip long enough to accomodate one more round. Maybe that would also add enough mass to the slide to high allow higher pressure ammo.

I know a stainless framed one was mentioned in this thread as the next model, that should hold up to +P and +P+ ammo. The weight of an all stainless model would be less desirable for pocket carry though.

[Blackhawk]

No telling, pinepig2, but they've hit a resonant chord with their R9 so they'll still be innundated trying to fill the orders for a long time to come. I've wanted a small gun just like this for much longer than I can remember, and apparently it hits MANY other people as being "just right" as well.

I'd much rather Rohrbaugh stick with what they know and can EASILY handle with the personnel they have to facilitate slowly adding staff at a rate they can train them to maintain the exceptionally high quality and workmanship that's evident on mine.

Over expansion or too rapid expansion has killed or crippled way too many companies that started out producing great products. Kahr is an example. They started out with a great design, but by the time they figured out the trigger needed fixing with the "Elite Trigger," they had several models, and that required adding a bunch of staff. Unfortunately, the new staff wasn't quite "with the program" on quality or customer service. Kahr's reputation has taken such a beating that it may never overcome it. Same way with some other big name manufacturers.

If Rohrbaugh quality ever slips or they ever make compromises on parts or processes or turn control over to some money grubbing "experts", they'll take a hit on their reputation. Then the ghosts of their ancestors will rise up and make their lives miserable for dragging the family name, honor, and fortune into ridicule. I don't see that happening. They're much too smart and focused. I've known them for a year and a half, and they're not greedy with delusions of grandeur that they're going to corner the firearms market. What they do, they do very well, and they and their products will enjoy similar accolades to those bestowed on Browning, Colt, Luger, Maxim, Henry, and other notables in firearms history. And that's my prophecy about the Rohrbaughs and their company.

[pinepig2]

Good post, Blackhawk. The LAST thing I'd want to see are any changes to the company that would affect the quality of the final product. When I first learned of this gun, I thought "ahh, a higher quality alternative to Kahr." If Kahr caused their QC issues by releasing too many different models early on, then I will be content with just one from Rohrbaugh.

[Kestrel]

Does this thing have a magazine disconnect? Key lock-out device?

[Bren]

Just for the record, "#2" (Luger in 45acp) has already been shot several times. :p

Shoot it or lose it! :evil:


Sooooooooo Jeff, how is it grouping? Any problems? Peaves? Bren

[WonderNine]

Kahr's reputation has taken such a beating that it may never overcome it.

Nah, you're thinking of Kimber.

[greg531mi]

What's on my wish list, a pocket 45!!!

The difference in weight between a Colt Pony and a Stainless Mustang, it is a big change. The aluminum frame cuts a lot of weight off the gun. Anodzing is just a surface treatment, heat treating makes metal stronger.
As being a CNC machinist, just permently laid off from Bosch, :mad: , this gun can be massed produced, on CNC equipment, we had 1000 CNC operators at Bosch, making fuel injectors, but it takes time to train people, millions of dollars for equipment, tooling, training etc...
People think you can start production quickly, but that takes time and lots of money.
I just wish that more manufacturers would produce what the people want. Amen

[Blackhawk]

Does this thing have a magazine disconnect? Key lock-out device?Neither!

[Black Snowman]

Does this thing have a magazine disconnect? Key lock-out device?
No, it's a real gun. There's no room for the extra bulk, weight, and room for potential failures in a gun like this, especially in this size.

If they do develop a new model, I hope they can do it after making back the money they've already laid out. It's very difficult starting a new business and there's still a lot of things that could go wrong for them. I know I'd like to see a particular new gun from them . . . well, actually I'd like to develop it and make money off it myself but I don't know if I can pull it off or if I'm willing to take the risk to do it.

We'll see in both cases :D I wish them the best and it sounds like they've make a great product that deserves to succeed.

[Blackhawk]

Just for the record, "#2" (Luger in 45acp) has already been shot several times. No doubt. But if I get my hands on it, I'm not going to the one who breaks it.... :p

[Jeff OTMG]

Grouping: A buddy of mine that works at the local range fired a 1" group offhand at 5 yards with it yesterday. I have the target and will post the pictures with the article.

[Blackhawk]

Point shooting: Any SD gun has to be a good pointer, IMO. You can't count on the luxury of being able to take aimed shots due to the exigencies of stress, body position, adrenaline, and cognitive dissonance. A gun that has a chance of being a good pointer has to have a good trigger and fit your hand so that you grip it the same way every time and under extreme conditions. A gun you have to "adjust" your grip on just won't do, and one way to test that is to grip it loosely, aim, then look away and tighten up your grip as much as you can and see how much your aim has drifted. A drifting aim when you increase your grip pressure indicates that the grip doesn't really fit your hand. If the tight grip hurts or your aim's drifted more than a tiny bit, the gun's not going to be very good for point shooting.

I've already mentioned how comfortable the R9 is to grip. The level of comfort is initially high, and no matter how tight you squeeze, it remains high. No pain or even discomfort.

(I practice point shooting and eschewed aimed shots with handguns for decades only getting serious about them in the last few years so YMMV. A GREAT point shooter you may be familiar with is Bob Munden.) IMO, the R9 is a natural pointer. My aim only shifts an inch or so on the squeeze test.

Okay, the next obvious validation of the R9 as a pointer is testing it. For that, I mounted my LaserBlaster (a laser toy that fits into the barrel and "fires" a momentary red dot at whatever the muzzle's pointed at when the trigger's pulled). From 7 yards, I was able to easily hit COM every time, a doorknob about 1/3 of the time, and a face size area about 3/4 of the time. None of these were aimed shots, and every one was picking up the gun from a table while looking at the target, then firing as soon as possible without even glancing at the sights.

This gun, ladies and gentlemen, friends and foes, and curious felons and wannabes, is a natural pointer! :neener:

BTW, Eric told me they were shooting golf balls consistently with one of the early prototypes. No sights at all. Easy for me to believe! :D

==================
edited a couple of typos....

[Missouri Mule]

Sounds like a pistol I wwould carry alot "WHEN" I get my New MO CCW.....

When they get affordable. ~$1000 HOLY COW!

I don't have that kind of change laying around.... reckon I could sell two or three of my soon to be legal truck guns! WOW!

[NMGlocker]

This gun, ladies and gentlemen, friends and foes, and curious felons and wannabes, is a natural pointer!
You *think* it's a natural pointer, based on a laser bore sight.
But you actually have no idea whether it will actually fire to that POA because you've never personally fired a live round thru it.
BTW, Eric told me they were shooting golf balls consistently with one of the early prototypes. No sights at all. Easy for me to believe!
Sounds like you *want* to believe all you've been told, after all you spent a lot of money to risk being dissapointed.
The pistol has the potential to be an excellent BUG or CCW, but cheerleading doesn't impress me. I'll have to wait until someone actually fires a substantial amount of rounds thru one before I'm impressed.
Long term durability and reliability can only be tested by live fire tests, not mechanical engineer observations.

[Blackhawk]

You *think* it's a natural pointer, based on a laser bore sight.
But you actually have no idea whether it will actually fire to that POA because you've never personally fired a live round thru it.

Actually, I think that based on decades of experience in point shooting handguns, depending on an old, but reliable, manual method of determining how an unfired gun will point, and recently supplementing that with a new laser gizmmo I've only had for about 2 years. The manual method has kept me from being disappointed by buying a Glock among others. The Laser gizmo is wonderful for training (and confirmation).

Experience tells me that I have an excellent idea of how this gun points.Sounds like you "want" to believe all you've been told, after all you spent a lot of money to risk being disappointed.
What I spent is nominal, and buyer's remorse isn't an affliction I suffer from.

BTW, you're not obligated to read my opinions.... :rolleyes:

[Lightsped]

I received my Rohrbaugh info and pricelist today along with a letter that was personally written to me. Very quick response considering I just requested product info a day or two ago.

That kind of service impresses me big time. The letter did state that they had a updated product info/pricelist coming soon. I hope to remain on their mailing list. I am kind of interested in the Carbon Fiber finish.

The Rohrbaugh seems like a very cool gun which I will try acquire before too long.

[Mr Jody Hudson]

I LOVE my Keltecs; 3 in .380, 3 in 9mm and 1 in .40...

I guess there is merit in having one of these Rohrbaughs...

Although I am very happy with my P11s and my 3ATs!

I suppose that I will end up with one of these fine new Rohrbaugh pistols eventually... perhaps soon if I am able to arrange the logistics.

I had decided previously to get one of these. Now, I'm ready to send the money!

Good thread, good debate, good info and great and convincing pictures and information from Blackhawk.

THANKS!

[Mr Jody Hudson]

I am perfectly happy with the heel safety in a pocket gun, in particular, and have been the happy owner of many Walther TPHs over the years.

However, I see that the magazine release of the Rohrbaugh should be more in keeping with the fit of the TPH to make it a good pocket gun. I look forward to that design change or to the prospect of modifying mine... when I get it.

[Blackhawk]

Jody,

I found some pictures of a Walther TPH that give a pretty good view of their heel mag release here: http://www.fjvollmer.com/New Folder (34)/walther__tph_22__97.htm

Something like that on an R9 would be ideal! A close approximation could be done during manufacturing without much trouble either. Good call.

[Mr Jody Hudson]

I plan to send my deposit tomorrow as per Erics request.

I have been on the list for over a year. I know they are VERY busy!

BlackHawk and anyone else, from your experience is there a minimum that is acceptable to Rohrbaugh? I want to make certain that I'm over the minimum. Eric did not say.

I emailed yesterday to ask if I was still on the list and he responded today! I just don't want to overload him and I've never ordered anything like this before. Those with experience in such matters, please advise.

I can easily imagine that they are getting several hundred emails per day at this point! And, trying to run the business.

[Blackhawk]

Jody,

If you don't already have an FFL you deal with, go to http://www.gunsamerica.com/transfer.cgi to find one convenient for you. Your FFL sends some paperwork and credentials to Eric and will receive, log, and transfer the gun to you when it arrives just like the transfer you'd have to do in a store. Needless to say, a large deposit will get more respect than something that's just a PITA to account for on the other end.

I sent my money along with a letter identifying my FFL and a letter to my FFL saying what was going to arrive and from whom along with all of the Rohrbaugh contact information. The transaction went as smooth as a Rohrbaugh trigger, but I'd suggest trying to have everything happen close to the same time.

From the responses I've seen and am sure will be provoked by Jeff's article, I'm sure initial demand is going to be very high for this gun. Everybody who's seen mine wants at least one!

[Mr Jody Hudson]

Thanks,

Should I send more than half for deposit, in your opinion.

[Blackhawk]

Having been on both ends of such transactions, I'd just send the whole amount and mark it as "payment for..." in the memo field of your check.

You can work the psychology aspects from your end, but the business aspects from the other end are both psychological and practical.

"Deposits" have to be accounted for separately from "sales," and that's a bookkeeping nuisance. Secondly, something that's "sold, paid for, but not delivered" puts a strange kind of pressure on the manufacturer to get it out the door. In a production business, there's nothing quite as satisfying as products being shipped. Everything about the design, production, delivery AND customers is very personal to these guys. Treat them the way you'd want to be treated if the situations were reversed.

[turtle]

Do you know if they're planning on submitting the gun for testing for California? Or whether it will require modifications to be sold in California?

[Blackhawk]

Welcome to THR, turtle! :D

I don't know for sure if they're planning to submit it for testing, but doesn't CA require both a slide lock and a magazine interlock (so the gun won't fire if the magazine's removed)?

Both of those would require modifications to the gun, and both of them would violate the design criteria that the gun be functionally as simple as possible with no extra doodads or jimcracks that could interfere with the gun working in that split second it needs to in a self-defense situation.

I'm now sold on the heel magazine release (not relevant to your question), but I'd like to see the release trimmed so it doesn't protrude so much or make a gap that can catch seams when the gun is drawn from a pocket. Otherwise, I'm not in favor of any modifications to the design with the possible exception of moving the assembly pin access holes in the slide a bit to make field stripping easier.

The CA market is a big one, and I'm sure they're attracted by it, but silly requirements that preclude a gun like this and others from being sold there should be addressed through the political process by Californians pressuring the Legislature to be sensible. Otherwise, if companies like Rohrbaugh and Kel Tec play the silly game to comply with CA's silly games, the anti-gunners in the Legislature are just going to push for more and even sillier requirements like those in NJ did to require "smart" guns when the first viable smart gun is produced. One such stupid requirment might be that any gun sold in CA must occupy a volume of not less than 231 cubic inches and weigh not less than 5 pounds.

Sorry for the rant, but that's one of my hot buttons. :fire:

[turtle]

Thanks... Unless something's changed recently (possible), I think the California requirements involve internal safeties (and testing) to make sure the handgun won't fire if it's dropped. The NAA guardian doesn't have a slide lock and it's on the approved list.

It's understandable if a company doesn't want to (or can't afford to) subject themselves to California's special requirements. I suppose that's what the people passing the laws would really like.

[Blackhawk]

If one of those "required" safeties involves a firing pin or hammer block, then the Rohrbaugh won't pass because it doesn't have one. yxguy over on www.KTOG.org set up a rig for a KT P-11 to fall on its muzzle, and found that from way more than the 4' requirement, it would fire, and it's also a true DAO like the Rohrbaugh.

If the requirement is that it not fire from a certain height, such as 4', I'm sure the R9 would pass. If the requirement is that PLUS a mechanical contrivance, then it won't. The only thing that would make sense is for the law to require the gun to pass the drop test.

Maybe they are going to submit it for testing when and if they catch up on their order backlog! :D

[Jeff OTMG]

They need a new rule in Ca. Don't drop your pistol. Pass a law, they have so many already one more won't hurt.

[Andrew Wyatt]

all a gun needs is to pass the drop tests.

[Mr Jody Hudson]

Thanks Blackhawk,

Your point is so obviously correct. I took $500 deposit to my FFL today and then called him back later and told him to just send full purchase price and that I'd bring the rest that he needs in the morning. I think he may have sent everything today, if not, I'll see him in the morning and get the transaction completed from this end.

[Sven]

Mr. R called me and said he has some very good news for California folks interested in getting one of these... developing...

[Sven]

OK - the update: the Rohrbaughs should be available in California by Spring.

Cha-CHING!

[Blackhawk]

Good news for you left coasters. Now, if the rest of us in the middle could just get them by spring too.... :D (I need at least two more myself....)

[turtle]

That's great news! I think I'd really like one of these (assuming the reports from the range are positive). Do you think it would be better/faster to try to get one through a local dealer or just order one directly? Suppose they'd take California orders early? I wonder what year the delivery would be if you don't already have an order in.

[Blackhawk]

For the time being, there AREN'T any dealers, AFAIK.

It's not much of a risk, IMO, but a dealer has to buy the gun in anticipation of selling it to some potential customer. IOW, the dealer has to put money up before a sale is made. AFAIK, Rohrbaugh is NOT going the distributor route, and that's where most dealers get their guns.

Rohrbaugh will send paid for guns directly to your FFL, and you can pay the FFL fee directly ($15 for one I found on GunsAmerica.com). So, you order the gun and deal directly with Rohrbaugh, which sends the gun to your FFL for transfer to you. IMO, that's the fastest possible way to get one.

Call or email Eric directly from the info on http://www.rohrbaughfirearms.com/ (go to the contact page that has all the contact info).

[turtle]

Thanks. Are the sights snag-free? Or if you're concerned about that, do you think it would be best to go with the non-sighted model?

[Blackhawk]

The sights are snag free. I greatly prefer the sighted model, personally.

[JackDRipper]

For the time being, there AREN'T any dealers, AFAIK.

Impact Arms lists the Rohrbaugh R-9 Pistol for $945.00 . JR


http://www.impactguns.com/store/rohr_r9.html

[Blackhawk]

That's GREAT news, JR!

I wonder how many other dealers are signed up.

[Jeff OTMG]

Sprinco USA is a dealer, in fact another Rohrbaugh was sold this weekend at the Dallas Market Hall gun show. Mine was on display.

[Blackhawk]

I just noticed that there are 4 Rohrbaugh dealers now.

Take a look at http://www.rohrbaughfirearms.com/dealer/dealer_set.html

[meltap]

is the $950 price what we send to Rohrbaugh in addition to any FFL fee or is there a dealer price as well?

[Blackhawk]

meltap,

I believe JeffOTMG said the dealer price was $756 earlier in the thread, but that presumes that a dealer is involved in your transaction.

I'd just contact Eric Rohrbaugh for the amount to send if I were you. Maybe they've got dealers set up in Idaho already!

The FFL fee doesn't go to Rohrbaugh in any case. It goes to whomever you use as your FFL transfer agent locally, and that's who sets the fee.

[Blackhawk]

Hey Jeff.

It's been a month now. How's your range report and article coming along, or have I not been paying enough attention again? :D

[greg531mi]

I handled Jeff's gun at the Indy 1500. Nice piece and light! As light as my pony and maybe a little larger, but not that much. The quality is outstanding!! Would be my dream gun, if I had a job!!!
Thank you Jeff for showing it off...Greg

[greg531mi]

:D

[greg531mi]

Jeff let me dry fire his gun, and it was about what a Seacamp or my Autuaga trigger is, about 7 lbs. He said that he fired 200 rounds threw his gun, got flawless feeding, and was getting about 1 1/2 groups at 21 feet, (he held his pointer finger and thumb together to form a circle!!), it looks like a slightly overgrown Seacamp. He did slip it in his back jean pocket, and it did fit easily. Just examining it, was my highlight of the Indy 1500 gun show!!!

[Pendragon]

Ooooooo!

There is a dealer in SATX!

I must go investigate.

This could possibly get me to buy a non SA/1911 autopistol - no small accomplishment.

I was thinking of an LS-9, but this might be better...

[jungleman]

I have a colt pocket nine and a kahr Pm9, don't think i want to spend that much money for this pistol

[Blackhawk]

Pendragon,

Congratulations on your relocation! Did you find a good position?

Let us know what you find out about the Rohrbaugh dealer there.

[incursion]

I shot Jeff's Rohrbaugh today. I think it's very prone to stovepipes because of its weight, so don't flinch when shooting it! The quality is amazing. The recoil was very manageable. I definitely plan to get one of these bad boys. Thanks again Jeff! Sorry about your M96.

[Texas Bob]

:( Will "someone" please give us a "range report." Incursion, did you experiance "stovepipes" while shooting or did you witness this happening to others?:confused:

[incursion]

I experienced them while shooting the gun myself with Blazer ammunition. I'm pretty sure it was operator error.

[Jeff OTMG]

After he experienced two consecutive stovepipes, I fired the remaining three rounds in the mag without problem. I think that it was a problem with the Blazer and possibly limp wristing. Shooting the gun with regular ammo, except for the nearly 20 year old white box, no more problems were encountered.

[Texas Bob]

:banghead: So....... Jeff When are we going to get a "range report?" Don't hold off, rember what happened to the Kahr PM9. I believe it was Wiley Clapp(sp?) that got his hands on one of them and "sold" a three page range report, with pictures, to Guns&Ammo, Handguns, and The American Rifleman, all within a 60 day period. Is "this" happening again?:evil:

[incursion]

Rohrbaugh called my house on Friday, but I was at work. However, my dad took a message, and they said that they are having issues with the magazine baseplate falling off during firing. They're doing some R&D to remedy the problem, but it will probably take a month.

[Mr Jody Hudson]

I look forward to getting mine. However, I look forward, even more, to Rohrbaughs having the bugs worked out. I anticipate a great little pistol when it is ready.

[NJ3]

I should have the $$$ for one in a month or two, hopefully they'll have that issue solved by then.

[Wildalaska]

Ive got 4 coming (one sold), Eric said about 2 weeks

WildpocketpistolheadquartersAlaska

[P95Carry]

Ive got 4 coming (one sold), Eric said about 2 weeks That will be my baby ... :)

I'll try and be patient!:p

[Jerrywahid]

Well...I saw the R9 for the first time on the Rohrbaugh website last night. I was very interested and I thus sent a message to Rohrbaugh via their website. After that I found out that they cost about $1000 and I got pretty discouraged. That is alot of money. Then I got a call on the phone today from Eric Rohrbaugh. He discussed the gun in detail and answered any and all questions I had. He seemed genuinely concerned and interested in providing me with information. I was very very impressed. Someone who takes the time to call potenial customers when I know he must be busy...Like I said...I was impressed. He says that the guns carry a lifetime warranty. I am seriously considering saving up the cash to get one of these. I thought that since Rohrbaugh was good enough to call me I would try to give them a good word on here. Time to start saving pennies. Lots of pennies.

[P95Carry]

Jerry .. apart from having found the gun to be quite impressive, in design and proportion .. I feel too that there is enormous integrity behind the product. Eric and Co are taking a big gamble here .. and I sincerely hope it pays off for them.

I have read enough now to feel that tho it is very high priced .. I shall hopefully not only like the gun but, can be pretty confident that I shall have excellent customer support too.

I could buy two guns for this price ..... but somehow I think it will be worth it.

[Jerrywahid]

I could buy two guns for this price ..... but somehow I think it will be worth it. Yes, plus, you can only really use one at a time:D

Reading more of this thread I think I might wat to wait for the stainless model. I've always wanted an all stainless gun. Hmm... I wonder what, if any, the price difference will be....

I definitely need one of these:D

[Kestrel]

I don't know that I would ever get one, myself, but I'll tell you this. It sure impressed the heck out of me that Eric Rohrbaugh printed out all those good postings about Blackhawk, when he had the stroke and FedExed them to his wife.

That's a good deed.

Steve

[Jeff OTMG]

Jerry, the all stainless gun will be much heavier so keep that in mind.
P95, Seecamp is releasing the Seecamp in .380 and the first two one dealer got were nearly $1000 each. More than a Rohrbaugh, heavier than a Rohrbaugh, more expensive than a Rohrbaugh, and only a .380.

[P95Carry]

In that case Jeff .. I shall look forward even more to getting my Rohrbaugh!:p

[12GA]

Did I miss the range report? :confused:

[arinvolvo]

I still havent seen a range report on these things...makes me feel like people have been having buyers remorse.:p

[P95Carry]

I haven't dug back but IIRC in this thread way earlier on .. there are many references to performance etc. No time to check right now.

[Mr Jody Hudson]

Eric made my day, this evening. He called to tell me that mine will be on the way in a few weeks!!!

He called just as I was going into a meeting where about 60 women were waiting for me!!! They saw me outside the window and on my cell phone and I just kept raising one finger (wait a minute) as Eric chatted and gave me the good news!

I finally went in and one of the ladies said "that must have been a very good call - you had a BIG smile on your face!) I told her it was a very good call... :D

[P95Carry]

Jody ... I too was called by Eric ... that was this morning, after I had dropped him a line thru his site. Ken (WildAlaska) is getting mine initially ... so by time it gets here it'll be well travelled!

Eric said mine should be on the way North in about a month .... of course, I am impatient as heck but .. am impressed that he followed up my communication so quickly. Had a good chat with him, and will wait as long as it takes.

[Mr Jody Hudson]

That is excellent. I think an important part of these guns is the intense interest that Rohrbaughs take in us, the customers as well as the intense care they take in getting the guns right!

This sort of corporate, company, family oriented service and attention to details is sure to make this company and these guns a bench mark of the industry!

I am proud to be a part of this! And, I found out about it all HERE on THR!

[WonderNine]

P95, why is yours going to WildAlaska first? Custom work? :)

[P95Carry]

P95, why is yours going to WildAlaska first? Custom work? W9 .. Nope .... nothing so exciting! All the custom it has is all it will have ... ie. ''as issued''.

I am getting mine thru Ken because I knew he had three or four on order after the Vegas Shot Show ... and so thought that might move things along a bit!! Trying to be sneaky, that's all :p

I sure will look forward to it I must say and will do some range write-ups hopefully too. I am hoping this will become a daily friend as carry ... just the matter then of finding the right holster. May have to see if one our custom holster dudes on THR can do the necessary.

[curt]

man i sure wish more people were writing about shooting this gun! With summer approaching i would surely like a reliable pocket 9, but frankly i am not convinced it is doable in a package this small. When i start reading about folks putting several hundred rounds through one with no malfunctions i'll be looking to buy one.

BTW eric and his crew sound like good folks, i wish them luck.

[Jeff OTMG]

P95, I spoke to Eric this AM and heard about your deal. Sure your gun has to go across the country TWICE, but it beats waiting 3 or 4 months. The guns have been selling so well that they are working weekends to get them together and are considering hiring additional personnel. They are also going to be featured on the cover of American Handgunner later this year and I think that we all know what that is going to do for demand to a company that hasn't bought a line of advertising, thus far it has all been word of mouth. All I can say is that I am glad I got mine when I did.

[Wildalaska]

Spoke to Eric last night, he said my four will be here at the end of the month, barring any other hitches (which I can relate to)...

P95 has his...I got two more then for sale (although looks like one will be gone later today), one I told Eric I was going to shoot the hell out of and post a range report...

Ah the fun of gun production. Anyone wonders about pricing, I will show you our insurance rates. Eric can relate to that I bet :0

WildineedadayoffAlaska

[P95Carry]

Jeff ... Eric has been ever so good at staying in touch . remarkable for a guy who is so incredibly busy.

Off topic but I asked this on the ''Blackhawk Update'' thread .... is there any more news of Bob .... just hoping that things are still, if awful slowly - moving in the right direction.?

[BHPshooter]

I just finished reading this entire thread. (whew!) Although this pistol is WAY out of my price range, Eric Rohrbaugh sounds like one hell of a guy. :cool:

Imagine, for a minute, if JMB got on the phone to chat about your 1911 or Hi Power. That's essentially what's happening to the fortunate souls who are (or will be shortly!) owners of a Rohrbaugh pistol.

That is SO COOL. :cool: :D

Here's to Mr. Rohrbaugh. ;)

Wes

[Compliantguy]

Which Rohrbaugh model comes with a silver aluminum frame and sights? Or do all of the Rohrbaughs have aluminum frames? Also, how much are these going for and, how long is the waiting list? Thanks.

[P95Carry]

I have the ''matching'' version on order .. so all looks ''silver'' but IIRC the frame can be some dark finish. The waiting list is quite long ... maybe several weeks for a brand new order. Cost is listed I think in region of $950.

Best bet for you is .... go to http://www.rohrbaughfirearms.com/ and find the contact page ... if you send Eric your questions he will I am sure get back to you quite fast. He is a very helpful and pleasant guy.

[ABBOBERG]

Sounds like a quite a few people are chomping at the bit for range results on the Rohrbaugh. While I can't vouch for the accuracy, reliability or recoil of this pistol, I did some barrel velocity testing in my shop. Using a spring-loaded bolt, bench mounted jig (simulates a semi-auto), I tested a 2.7" barrel and a 3.85" barrel firing 9mm W/W ball ammo. I got an average of 1032 ft/sec (272 fpe) with the short barrel and 1132 ft/sec (327 fpe) with the long barrel. I also compared the barrels by shooting the same ammo into a block made from 4 sheets of 3/4" baltic birch plywood. The 2.7" barrel shot went through just over 3 sheets, the 3.85" just poked through the fourth sheet.

I think the key here is to find what kind of hollow point ammo that the Rohrbaugh can use to produce enough expansion (versus penetration), and that will have to be someone with enough time on his hands to do the gelatin tests.

[Waste of Money]

I personally believe this Rohrbaugh is one of those internet hoaxes being spread in order to gather data for someone's term paper.

There's no way in hell this pistol exists!! How do I know you ask? Ok. Answer this question..."If you were to rant and rave about some new product for months in which you would kill to get your hands on one. You actually acquire one of the first 100 off the assembly line. You spend good money for it. Would you then not use it?" :confused:

C'mon! Stop perpetuating this fallacy. I'll even provide the money for the first box of ammo through this weapon. Just shoot it or shut up! :cuss:

It's time for a RANGE REPORT or time for a new story ...


:mad:

[P95Carry]

http://www.rohrbaughfirearms.com/contact/contct_set.html

Drop a line to Eric with your doubts ... why don't you. :)

It takes an inordinate amount of time and work to bring something new to the market place ... and the company is working about flat out.

This thread is long but a full read would be useful if not already done. In approx one month I intend after taking delivery of mine ... to shoot the hell out of it!:p

[incursion]

I shot it along with 2 of my friends that don't know much about guns on January 23, 2004 in Liberty Hill, TX. It does it exist and is not vaporware!

[grandpabob]

Anyone seen any reviews on the Rohrbaugh?

What is the trigger pull?

Reliability?

[harrydog]

I think there will be an article in the August issue of Swat Magazine. The Rohrbaugh will be on the cover. I think American Handgunner and others will be having articles sometime after that as well

[Mr Jody Hudson]

I really enjoyed shooting mine; Eric let me test it, although I have not received it yet.

I was VERY impressed with the accuracy and can't wait to find the MOST accurate ammo for it. I will most likely use only fmj... depending on geletin tests. IF www.AmmoLab.com is interested, I will furnish David with the gun and ammo for testing.

The workmanship, finish, mechanical fit and ALL were absolute TOP quality. However, Eric is still wringing mine out, final testing after final testing to make CERTAIN that the little world class pistol - is worthy of his Family Crest; which is engraved upon it.

I look forward to getting mine... when it is done... and only Eric and company will decide that!

There are no vapors in what I shot and I've already decided to get another one, even before getting my first one... My second serial number is reserved until it is placed upon a pistol for me... and then I shall have two.:D

[P95Carry]

Hey Jody! :)

Yep .... pretty much what you said .. I am chomping at the bit now .. wanting to have the little pup here .. and like you, will be checkin out ammo .. hopefully too doing some chrono figures etc.

Not sure about getting a #2 yet!:p

[Wildalaska]

I have one of the Shot Show demo Rohrabauhgs in the shop right now(unforetunately a non firing piece but otherwise functional)...
Everyone who fondles it is impressed...

Personally I think they are awesome. Im trying to figger out a way to sneak one past SWMBO

WildstainlesspocketgunAlaska

[dwestfall]

Are there any pics comparing the Rohrbaugh to a Kahr MK9?

[P95Carry]

dwestfall .... best I can do short term is post a pic we took at the March shoot ... this is an R9S (mine or Jody's...... I forget) .... a P32 (or P3AT) and a P-11.

Might give some idea for now. :)


http://www.bedford.net/design/shoot3/march_pa_shoot/comparison_s.jpg

[azrael]

Ok I sent them another e-mail...HOPEFULLY I can get a "pattern" for the R9 before they are all delivered...Gotta get me some of that "STAINLESS POCKETGUN" money...lol

Grrrrrrrr I HATE being out of the loop!!!:fire:

[DDGator]

Yep, we have a dummy gun too. Pretty neat little package. I think it could definitely fit into my collection.

Duane
Sales@KDHolsters.com
www.KDHolsters.com