Hardware Store


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sm
October 16, 2010, 03:19 PM
Some of the best weapons come from Hardware Stores.

Granted the old mom-n-pop hardware stores are getting fewer and fewer, and granted many of those left do not sell guns or ammo anymore. Still, even today your franchised hardware store is chocked full of weapons.

Keep in mind: You are the weapon, the world is your toolbox- me
YOU have to have mindset, and skill sets, along with some thinking, and this includes "thinking-outside the box."

So besides the obvious items, such as flashlights, batteries, and pocket-knives, we have:

Canes, door stops, wasp-n-hornet spray, padlocks, bells, door locks, alarm systems, smoke detectors, carbon-monoxide detectors, fire extinguishers, brake-cleaner, water bottles, coffee thermos's, window locks, lighting, cast iron skillets, grills, LP tanks, charcoal, Coleman Lanterns, Oil Lamps (lamp oil, and wicks), matches, glow sticks,...

Anything from items one can carry on person everyday, to items being kept in a vehicle, to home/office use are available in a hardware store. Items even folks in restricted settings can legally have, possess and use.

So how can these items be used?
What other items are available at the hardware store?

Steve

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mesinge2
October 16, 2010, 04:44 PM
My favorite "Gun" store is Crowder Brother's Hardware store.
Its a little mom and pop store that has been here for 35 years.
I have bought more guns at this shop than anywhere else.

MattTheHat
October 16, 2010, 05:46 PM
Canes, door stops, wasp-n-hornet spray, padlocks, bells, door locks, alarm systems, smoke detectors, carbon-monoxide detectors, fire extinguishers, brake-cleaner, water bottles, coffee thermos's, window locks, lighting, cast iron skillets, grills, LP tanks, charcoal, Coleman Lanterns, Oil Lamps (lamp oil, and wicks), matches, glow sticks,...

Anything from items one can carry on person everyday, to items being kept in a vehicle, to home/office use are available in a hardware store. Items even folks in restricted settings can legally have, possess and use.

Add an animated coyote and some Acme labels and the effectiveness of what you're describing is illustrated in each and every episode of the Roadrunner cartoon. :)


-Matt

jimmyraythomason
October 16, 2010, 06:14 PM
At one time the only "gun stores" we had were hardware and feed-n-seed stores. They had guns and ammo and would always be willing to trade. Then they stopped carrying guns and only stocked ammo and accessories. After Wal-Mart came to town in 1980 they stopped carrying it all. Now all we have is WM or we must drive 60 miles to the nearest "gun store". I miss those days greatly!

joshk-k
October 16, 2010, 06:24 PM
Out of curiosity, could you explain the use of a doorstop as a weapon? I assume you're talking about a wedge-shaped thing, either rubber or wood.

JOsh

TimboKhan
October 16, 2010, 09:26 PM
A doorstop in and of itself isn't a great weapon in any way that I am aware of, but flipped around and used from the inside, it can be an excellent last line of defense for someone trying to get into your house or room.

TimboKhan
October 16, 2010, 09:33 PM
A doorstop in and of itself isn't a great weapon in any way that I am aware of, but flipped around and used from the inside, it can be an excellent last line of defense for someone trying to get into your house or room.

Gordon
October 16, 2010, 09:52 PM
Well I remember seeing those "Gopher/Stump remover" steel cans full of flash powder with a 6" cannon fuse coming out of the small juice sized and red painted tin cans! Now that there is some weapon at hand! First thing I ever saw a sign with must be 18 to purchase on them . This was in Marrietta Ga. in 1953, even then at 7 YO I lusted!

joshk-k
October 16, 2010, 10:07 PM
TimboKhan: Thanks, got it. Using a doorstop as a doorstop makes a lot of sense!

JOsh

Sky
October 17, 2010, 12:29 AM
True Value at Harlingen, Texas; Jerry says he has $300,000 worth of guns, ammo, and firearm related stuff. Certainly has a large selection of pistols.

tasco 74
October 17, 2010, 01:08 AM
good ideas here.... a few years ago i bought an ax handle to keep in the car if i needed some help..... took it home and cut off the slotted end where the ax head and wedges go makes a real nice persuader right next to my car seat....... i have a heavy chain dog choker collar i'd like to make some sort of mace out of....... been thinking about putting an inert pineapple grenade on the end of it.......

blindhari
October 17, 2010, 01:56 AM
If part of an axe handle makes a nice persuader, think of the arguments you could win if you bought the whole axe and sharpened the head??????

blindhari

TimboKhan
October 17, 2010, 02:22 AM
Add an animated coyote and some Acme labels and the effectiveness of what you're describing is illustrated in each and every episode of the Roadrunner cartoon.

Obviously you were having some fun, but let me hit some of the uses of what ol' SM is talking about for those that maybe don't get it. Let me first quote him so I can try and hit on each one a little bit.

Canes, door stops, wasp-n-hornet spray, padlocks, bells, door locks, alarm systems, smoke detectors, carbon-monoxide detectors, fire extinguishers, brake-cleaner, water bottles, coffee thermos's, window locks, lighting, cast iron skillets, grills, LP tanks, charcoal, Coleman Lanterns, Oil Lamps (lamp oil, and wicks), matches, glow sticks,...

1. Canes, padlocks, fire extinguishers, water bottles, Thermos bottles and skillets all make excellent impact weapons. Don't believe me? Have a buddy crack you in the head with a bottle full of water. Then, enjoy the dazzling pain and possible loss of consciousness!

2. Wasp spray, fire extinguishers both make decent chemical repellents. I don't know about the brake cleaner, but I guess it would work.

3. Door-stops, door-locks, window locks, CO2 and smoke detectors, alarm systems and fire extinguishers all help to keep you safer. In this application don't think of them as weapons necessarily, think of them as defenses. Same with lighting. If your house is a pit of darkness (drive around your town and notice how many are) consider that additional lighting is worth every penny you spend. You don't have to make your house or lot look like it is part of a Skid Row concert, but if you can cast some light into the shadows, you are doing nothing but helping yourself. Improvised weapons aside, If you can't afford lighting, or like me live in a condo where the association frowns on unauthorized additions, this is an excellent time to go buy a good quality and powerful flashlight. Scan your yard and drive before and while you walk to your door. Nobody will think it's weird and it very well may be the thing that keeps you safe. Remember, it ain't just humans you have to worry about. Stray dogs and other beasts roam the nights too, friends.

4. SM will have to tell you where the grills, LP bottles and the rest come in, because I am not sure if there is another use other than that they let you cook if your electricity or gas go out. Chemlights, oil lamps and matches are all pretty obvious in their usefulness.

Keep in mind, SM is talking about improvising and adapting, not replacing obviously superior tools. You would be a fool to trade a Glock for a skillet or opt to carry wasp spray in lieu of pepper spray. On the other hand, if you have spent some time thinking about it, that skillet or can of Wasp-b-gone may be all you have at hand when an attack presents itself.

To his list, let me add some obvious things: Hammers, crowbars, tool handles all make excellent impact weapons. Screwdrivers are good at stabbing. Shovels are good distance tools as are some rakes. Axes and hatchets, drywall hammers, all good. Most hardware stores sell inexpensive video monitoring. Hey, if your paranoid enough to stash a gun away to defend yourself, your paranoid enough to understand the smarts behind having a surveillance system in place. After all, you might want to get a look at whats coming down your hallway, up your stairs or kicking your door in before you charge headlong into danger. Don't discount anything! When I was a little kid, my dad kept two very angry German Shepherds at bay with nothing more than a loud voice and a big stick for long enough to reach the pistol he kept in his truck and shoot them dead. Those two dogs weren't screwing around either. I got nipped a little (but not a lot. Thanks Dad!), and my Dad literally shot the one dog as it was ripping into his leg. This was back in the 70's when the fuzz was a little more lenient about men protecting their families, but it happened right in the middle of town, not out in the boonies or something.

Again, none of these things is a good replacement for a solid, reliable firearm, a good sharp knife, pepper spray, tasers or any of the other actual weaponry you might own or advocate. All of them will do nicely in a pinch.

tasco 74
October 18, 2010, 02:49 AM
i thought it was a little strange of me to look at weaponizing all sorts of items but i guess others do as well..... i get a kick out of going into some offices and there's a little sign banning weapons..... then i get inside and almost everything i see can be used as a fighting tool...... i am the weapon anything at hand just might be a tool.............................

Gord
October 18, 2010, 03:52 AM
A doorstop in and of itself isn't a great weapon in any way that I am aware of

In a pinch, I imagine that a doorstop palmed pointy-end out and hooked at somebody's temple would do a reasonable imitation of a kubaton. I don't know if it would be able to cave in the skull, but I certainly wouldn't want to get clocked by one and find out.

As sm is always so fond of pointing out, you are the weapon. Anything that can be used to stab, slash or increase your blunt impact force (i.e., pretty much anything, period) is a viable weapon - or at least a time-buyer - if the S hits the F.

We like to comment on pointy sticks, but would you rather be bare-handed or have one of those? Would you want somebody else trying their damnedest to introduce said implement into your ribcage?

InkEd
October 18, 2010, 11:37 AM
The hardware store has a vast supply of potential improvised weapons.

Don't tell the Democrats. I don't want to have make a lawnmower 922 compliant.

lemaymiami
October 18, 2010, 12:17 PM
The standard powder fire extinguisher is a potent "entry denial" tool. Many years ago I had an instructor that simply said, "chalk 'em". At CQB distances a faceful of fire extinguisher will put anyone out of action (and leave them readily indentifiable for anyone responding). Hardware stores have lots and lots of items that aren't going to be used the way the maker intended...

-Hurry November!

sm
October 18, 2010, 03:42 PM
TimboKhan,

Thank you for posting your reply, clarifying the use of hardware store items.

lemaymiami,

I thank you as well. We see many posts from college students, not knowing what to do, especially from those with CCW permits/licenses and having to deal with restrictions on campuses.
Well, the fire extinguisher is a requirement in not only College, also any school setting and "campuses" from hospital to corporate. One heck of a impact weapon of course, but the neat deal is the "reach" it has, and how it will incapacitate person(s) allowing one to evade/escape a situation.

Re: Door Stop.
I go w-a-y back with these, being mentored as I was. Back in the day, restrooms were on the outside of gas stations and ladies especially were encouraged to use one of these door stops to keep themselves and kids safe.

In traveling, and staying in roadside cottages, hotels and motels, again having something more than the normal door lock, was a good suggestion. Used in conjunction with a chair offers a bit more security.

These door stops can be wooden ones,( homemade or store bought), or rubber. Still even today, these rubber ones bought at "dollar" stores, are "disposable" if you will. Some restrooms are not that clean, so once dropped, let it stay, and maybe someone else will have the smarts to employ it when they use that restroom.

Speaking of doors, one needs to pay attention to how doors open and close ( in or out of hallway) and the handle/knobs/locks.
Take for instance these doors with the long handle, one pushes down to open door.

While many use a Allen head type "set screw" and this is how it can be locked, one can use a screwdriver, instead of the right size Allen Wrench to lock a door. Say bad guys in a school setting, and locking a door off a stairwell.

Swiss-Tech 6-in-1 tool will do it, as well.
So one is evading bad guys, or wants to make sure their floor is not accessed from the stairs, a door stop will work if one does not have time to use a Allen Wrench, Swiss Tech, or Screwdriver, or whatever to "lock" the door.


I am not going to share, using a small door stop under the legs of a pinball machine for "body english" defends one from having to buy the pizza and sodas. No, I would not do that on this forum. I might share how drink coasters are used, if the bribe is good enough though.
Do not let Larry Ashcraft get wind of this post...*wink*

1858 E.REM
October 18, 2010, 03:59 PM
My first gun was a single shot Winchester 12 gauge it hat a long barrel
walked in to the hardware store bought a hunting license, duck stamp, shells and the Winchester shotgun it cost $50

My next purchase was a Winchester 32 Special lever action rifle when i was in the service
bought that at Sears for $50 on time got my payment book
that was the start of my credit rating, the store reminded me more of a hardware store

Both guns were in very good condition and are long gone

mike2010
October 20, 2010, 10:53 PM
Wasp spray a self defense deterrent is an absolute MYTH! Police departments worldwide use pepper spray because the inflammatory effects of this agent work on those which cannot feel pain (very important). The inflammatory effects of pepper spray cause eyes to close involuntarily and produce a loss of breath sensation. Pepper spray has been proven effective on deterring and incapacitating aggressive, combative, intoxicated and drug induced individuals for over 20 years.
To date, no human testing has been conducted on WASP spray and itís a violation of federal law to use in self defense. There are many home defense pepper spray options which will deploy up to 25 feet and unlike WASP sprays, these pepper sprays do not require the user to be as accurate because their spray pattern will cover an entire doorway. Pepper spray is a safe, proven option which is trusted and relied upon by police officers worldwide. Stick with pepper spray!

jimmyraythomason
October 21, 2010, 06:22 AM
violation of federal law to use in self defense. If I'm in my garage and get attacked by man or beast and the wasp spray is the only thing in reach...guess what. If my grand children are in danger of being attacked by anything and I am holding a can of wasp spray...guess what. I live in Alabama. Want to guess what the odds are of being prosecuted for improperly using wasp spray for self defense? You would have a better chance of convicting a dog of jaywalking. Use what you have,waspspray is better than a roll of ribbon.

sm
October 21, 2010, 04:12 PM
Wasp spray a self defense deterrent is an absolute MYTH!

In all due respect, I would like to address this statement.

I come up before pepper spray, internet, gun forums, glocks and the list goes on.

The reality is, some areas do not allow mace, pepper spray, and so many other "weapons" be they firearms or "non-firearms". Keep in mind also , those under the "legal" age, according to laws, statutes and jurisdictions.

So some correct basic fundamentals, have always been, and "should" always be.

Don't go where trouble is, leave if trouble shows up, and have the mindset and skill-sets to effectively deal with the situation.

Not everything defaults to gun. And not everything defaults to using what the police, military, team walrus or the great pumpkin uses either. Though I will share, there are some folks "we don't speak of" that have always known, and still practice, knowing how to use what is available, to stop a threat.

I did not type "kill", I typed "threat".

Now there is a reason, I do not get "certifications" or other pieces of paper that says I can "instruct". Yes, I have spent the hours, taken exams and so forth on some stuff, and when it came time to become "whatever", I said no.
I have my reasons, which has something to do with Mentors & Elders, and some promises I made to myself and them.

You see, not being an "instructor" or "certified", I come in handy. I can say, suggest, and share things, where these others might get flack from those that pass out certs and diplomas and whatever else.

Damn right, I have, and will continue to suggest for instance, a 17 y/o high school girl, who drives to school, and then after school goes to check on grandma, have amongst things, wasp spray/brake cleaner in her vehicle.

She is underage to have a CCW obviously, as are guns, knives and even "pepper spray" is not allowed on her campus ( which according to the school, includes parking lot).

Now this young lady, has had some training, and has spent hours upon hours honing skill sets, such as awareness, "reading the room" , evasion, defensive driving, offensive driving, assertive driving, and evasive driving. She has "grit", and she for sure has "mindset".

I, was the one, that shared with her about wasp spray. The advantage of wasp spray, over brake cleaner is, includes "reach" and "foam".

In a live drill we did, I showed her how during some "car-jacking" and "bump-n-grinds", "bump-n-runs" and so forth, the wasp spray will "shoot" a long distance, to hit the windshield, and other glass, and foam, thus impeding visibility of attackers, therefore giving her time to take various actions, in order to stop the threat.

Now, when she is in a safer setting, the wasp spray will assist LE in finding the vehicle(s) as it will any individuals that might have that wasp spray on them.
Akin to some sprays having a dye, that shows under black-light. Sprays have odors and the like, which can be difficult for criminals to explain to officers asking questions.

--
Criminals know all about this stuff. The reality is, some models of criminals have more "training" time, than folks reading THR, and other sites.

Don't ask, still I have assisted with police cadets, and new recruits. I have played the bad guy. I think like a thief. Oh I can be a very very bad "model of certain criminals".

I took out three, new recruits, with all their gear, using hardware store stuff. A $1 can of spray paint, for instance, allowed me to reduce visibility of windshield, drivers glass, and my "shiv" were (a) toothbrush type brush, I sharpened the end of the handle, (b) screwdriver, and (c) small pry bar.
[They wore protective face masks btw, suggested strongly ].
I even took the "un-marked" car of one recruit.

Awerbuck shares:[paraphrase] it does not matter what make, model or caliber of weapon one has, they have to access it, and be able to employ it quickly and effectively.
This applies to any "weapon", not just a firearm.

Think out of the box.

Gord
October 22, 2010, 11:20 PM
it’s a violation of federal law to use in self defense.

Cite? :rolleyes:

That has got to be the singular most ridiculous post I've seen on THR. That is saying a lot.

InkEd
October 22, 2010, 11:38 PM
Look no further than prisons to see people make weapons out of ordinary things.

I recall in grade school, we used to sharpen the sticks from Popsicles on concrete. We just thought it was fun to make them sharp and throw them in the mud (like people do
with knives.)

Almost anything can be a weapon if needed as one.

hso
October 23, 2010, 01:00 AM
http://www.epa.gov/oecaagct/tecom.html
it’s a violation of federal law to use in self defense

That has got to be the singular most ridiculous post I've seen on THR.

Maybe and maybe not. From the EPA website Title 7 Chapter 6 Subchapter II 136j(a)(2)(G)- "It is a violation of federal law to use a pesticide in a manner inconsistent with its labeling." BUT 136 "Definitions" says at (ee)"To use any registered pesticide in a manner inconsistent with its labeling
The term “to use any registered pesticide in a manner inconsistent with its labeling” means to use any registered pesticide in a manner not permitted by the labeling, except that the term shall not include
(1) applying a pesticide at any dosage, concentration, or frequency less than that specified on the labeling unless the labeling specifically prohibits deviation from the specified dosage, concentration, or frequency,
(2) applying a pesticide against any target pest not specified on the labeling if the application is to the crop, animal, or site specified on the labeling, unless the Administrator has required that the labeling specifically state that the pesticide may be used only for the pests specified on the labeling after the Administrator has determined that the use of the pesticide against other pests would cause an unreasonable adverse effect on the environment,
(3) employing any method of application not prohibited by the labeling unless the labeling specifically states that the product may be applied only by the methods specified on the labeling,
(4) mixing a pesticide or pesticides with a fertilizer when such mixture is not prohibited by the labeling,
(5) any use of a pesticide in conformance with section 136c, 136p, or 136v of this title, or
(6) any use of a pesticide in a manner that the Administrator determines to be consistent with the purposes of this subchapter. After March 31, 1979, the term shall not include the use of a pesticide for agricultural or forestry purposes at a dilution less than label dosage unless before or after that date the Administrator issues a regulation or advisory opinion consistent with the study provided for in section 27(b) of the Federal Pesticide Act of 1978, which regulation or advisory opinion specifically requires the use of definite amounts of dilution."
Since EPA is only addressing environmental/agricultural use EPA does not prohibit self defense usage. That all said, use of wasp spray in self defense may land you in a lot of civil and potentially legal trouble since it isn't designed for less lethal use as a self defense spray. Of course ya gotta be alive to worry about that.

JHK94
October 23, 2010, 01:14 AM
I recall in grade school, we used to sharpen the sticks from Popsicles on concrete. We just thought it was fun to make them sharp and throw them in the mud (like people do
with knives.)


Did we go to the same grade school!?! Because we did the same thing ;)

TimboKhan
October 23, 2010, 01:25 AM
Wasp spray a self defense deterrent is an absolute MYTH! Police departments worldwide use pepper spray because the inflammatory effects of this agent work on those which cannot feel pain (very important). The inflammatory effects of pepper spray cause eyes to close involuntarily and produce a loss of breath sensation. Pepper spray has been proven effective on deterring and incapacitating aggressive, combative, intoxicated and drug induced individuals for over 20 years.

Two things: First, SM is talking about weapons at hand. Given a clear choice between pepper spray and wasp spray, I feel certain (though I guess I don't know and don't want to speak for him) that he would choose the pepper spray.

Second, the bigger "myth" is that pepper spray will deter and/or incapacitate a victim. It sucks, to be sure, but it isn't particularly difficult to fight through if you are really determined. I have been pepper sprayed, maced and CS'd on a number of occasions (all training excercises, mind you), and can tell you that while it ranges from mildly irritating to deeply unpleasant, if I were really trying to get after someone none of the three would have stopped me. Slowed me down some, maybe. "Incapacitate" or "deter" me? Not a chance. I will concede that there are a certain percentage of criminals for whom getting pepper-sprayed would be enough to make them go away.

Now, I am not saying it is pointless. That would be dumb. I am just saying that there is a reason cops carry tasers and guns and don't just rely on pepper-spraying people to get their point across.

Gord
October 23, 2010, 01:46 AM
That all said, use of wasp spray in self defense may land you in a lot of civil and potentially legal trouble since it isn't designed for less lethal use as a self defense spray.

mike2010's post was worded very poorly and alluded (at least to me) to there being a specific Federal law prohibiting wasp spray for self-defense usage. Anyway, the underlying premise is still ridiculous:

Of course ya gotta be alive to worry about that.

Exactly. You're probably not going to have the happiest time in front of a jury for beating someone to death with a baseball bat (tennis racquet, pool cue, Shop Vac extension attachment, desk lamp, great-aunt Maude's old photo album) but sometimes, you gotta do what you gotta do with what's at hand, and that's the foundation of this thread.

In that context, exhorting me not to spray someone in the face with wasp spray because wasp spray hasn't been specifically approved for spraying people in the face with doesn't really inspire me to much except feeling really bad for that person's parents and/or children.

JShirley
October 23, 2010, 02:24 AM
I believe ALL aerosols now carry warning labels, since they all can be huffed to make stupid people even stupider.

I'm tough, and I have a high pain tolerance, and I am extremely determined, but the last time I was pepper sprayed, I couldn't see anything for 15 minutes. I *was* still potentially very dangerous for about three minutes- if I could get my hands on you. ;) Don't know what it was about that pepper spray- my vision was affected for almost 48 hrs. The first time, I only had skin irritation after 30 minutes.

Deltaboy
October 23, 2010, 10:08 AM
The Classic Hardward store is a treasure trove of handy things to use to make you home harden and to use in a pinch. This all goes back to our Nations early years when You had to use what you had to survive. My Great Grandparents knew this and taught it to me. When I lived in a cheap apartment in college goodies like doorstops and Nice 8 inch #12 Screws anchored my door in the frame when I went to bed at night. :D

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