CZ Pistol Dislikes - voice 'em


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ArtP
October 16, 2010, 02:52 PM
I'm considering a CZ pistol. Can anyone share a feature or personal preference that they dislike about them? Not made in America? Anything else?

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Wishoot
October 16, 2010, 03:08 PM
I hate em'. They keep multiplying in my safe.

They're too easy to shoot accurately. They're too easy to upgrade. They're too easy to disassemble. I can't figure out how to cause a FTE, FTF or anything.

I think I need to buy a couple more. Maybe eventually I'll get a bad one.

They're very frustrating guns.

Wishoot
October 16, 2010, 03:09 PM
Ok, they are not made in the USA. -1 point.

SharpsDressedMan
October 16, 2010, 03:14 PM
I do not know why the 75B's have a shorter trigger action than the older "pre-B' models. The older, longer trigger actions seemed lighter, and smoother, and just seemed a whole lot more user friendly than the newer guns. This makes me seek out the older pre-B guns, as I like the looks, too. The older ones have no slide "mini-rib", they DO have a rounded trigger guard and spur hammer...other than the more visible sights, the newer guns aren't as aesthetic as the old ones. Still the current crop are very well made, and serve most people well.

Joe Demko
October 16, 2010, 03:15 PM
My CZ RAMI required a trip to CZ Custom and new magazines from CZ USA before it was trustworthy with hollowpoint ammo.

schmeky
October 16, 2010, 03:43 PM
Anyone that recognizes my user name probably knows I'm a big CZ fan, but . . .

Trigger reach is long
DA trigger is heavy
SA typically stinks
Sights are so-so
Not as easy as a 1911 or Glock to modify
Sometimes the finish is not evenly applied
Machining sometimes a little rough
CZ-97 has a large grip frame for smaller hands (CZ-75's are near perfect)

But overall, especially for the price, they are great pistols with lots of potential.

MikePGS
October 16, 2010, 04:01 PM
I don't like that you can't find accessories as easily as you can for other guns. That really is my only gripe with them but for me its kind of a big one.

JDGray
October 16, 2010, 04:05 PM
1. DA reach
2. Hammer cams as you pull in SA
3. Weak springs from the factory

All easy fixes, for a great weapon:)

Onmilo
October 16, 2010, 04:07 PM
No decocker.
Good to have a safety that can be engaged while the weapon is still at full cock so this little annoyance can be forgiven.

Mushy double to single action transition.
Again practice can compensate for a crappy trigger and most handguns have crappy triggers anyway.

It has been reported that barrel wear is greater/faster than comparable handguns so accuracy standards degrade at a faster rate than many other comparable guns.
I haven't shot a CZ enough to offer an opinion in this arena.

Magazines are good, Frames and Slides are good, barrels can be replaced.

swiftak
October 16, 2010, 04:42 PM
Not alot that I don't like about my 75b.

Shadow 7D
October 16, 2010, 04:44 PM
Complicated to put some small parts back in -0 (moral don't take them that far apart, you really don't need to most of the time)

Not made in the usa -1 Made in a country with 3 times the history of firearms manufacture +2 for a net of +1

great product at a reasonable price, with lots and lots of accessories, and great CS....

ArtP
October 16, 2010, 04:46 PM
Good answers, and thank you! I had a feeling the trigger might be an issue.

When comparing the typical qualities we all look for, how do you think CZ's stands up to beretta's and sig's?

68wj
October 16, 2010, 04:49 PM
More of a personal issue, but I never cared for the slide size. I almost have to pinch it rather than grip it to rack the slide. It seemed that immediate actions would be an issue. However, of the few people that I have know that owned them, they had nothing but good to say.

harmon rabb
October 16, 2010, 05:55 PM
The fact a guy I know named Phil likes them entirely too much.

Otherwise they're good :D

The Lone Haranguer
October 16, 2010, 06:10 PM
A couple of lows: due to its low height above the frame, there isn't much slide to grasp for quick racking. And the trigger pull in SA mode is "creepy" and somewhat heavy. The first part of the pull actually moves the hammer back a fraction of an inch before releasing it, a phenomenon known as "hammer camming."

If you look hard enough, you can find shortcomings in any gun.

Sam1911
October 16, 2010, 06:26 PM
The Omega series, which equals the trigger issues others have mentioned x10 without an apparent workaround (yet at least).

tekarra
October 16, 2010, 06:36 PM
Can't think of a negative thing to say.

dairycreek
October 16, 2010, 06:36 PM
CZ's are what they are. Do not mistake statements of personal preferences/dislikes as shortcomings in the gun! CZ,s are excellent guns and I find them to be of the highest, functional quality. Great buys all!

DenaliPark
October 16, 2010, 06:43 PM
I'm considering a CZ pistol. Can anyone share a feature or personal preference that they dislike about them? Not made in America? Anything else?
Not made in America? I see absolutely no merit in that type of objection, particularly in a society that is owned by communist Chinese imports!
I hold CZ's in the same esteem as I do Glock's and Beretta's, which is to say they are one of the best production 9mm's ever produced, anywhere. However, I can come up with several area's that are worthy of dislike.
1. Parts, CZ 75PO1 has some 60 + Parts as I recall, with one vendor(Kansas)getting replacements can be burdensome.
2. CZ's standard magazine floorplates(flat steel)are quite uncomfortable, though there are now nice rubber slam pads available through both CZ, and Mec-Gar at extra cost of course.
3. Long double action first pull of the trigger, as usual, more challenging for some then others.
4. Factory sights are kind of chincy, but there are good options from Meprolight & Trijicon to replace them with.

Big Bill
October 16, 2010, 06:50 PM
I can't think of ONE thing about my CZ 75BD that I disklike in any way. It's perfect for me just the way it came out of the factory. It's the best 9mm I've ever owned.

mookiie
October 16, 2010, 07:00 PM
I have a CZ52 which I dislike. I will tell you why. It is too small for the kick it has with the original military plastic grips and wants to jump out of your hand. Because of how small it is I do not get very good accuracy out of it almost every. If you put a can at 25 yards I will hit it but it may take two shots. I did get some beefier grips for it and it is more fun to shoot now but it still seems to have to much kick for how light and small it is.

gwnorth
October 16, 2010, 07:42 PM
I really like my P-01, but it would be nice if there was less initial slack in the DA trigger takeup. That's really my only complaint about it.

2ac
October 16, 2010, 08:20 PM
I too did not like the slide in the frame on the P-01 I had. With tiered and sweaty hands immediate action drills were very difficult.

LopezEL
October 16, 2010, 09:19 PM
They are great guns... but just like their Dan Wesson counterpart, they are not the great value they used to be. I remember having bought CZ 75s brand new for around $400. Now they cost as much as a Glock, Beretta, etc.

viking499
October 16, 2010, 09:39 PM
trigger

powwowell
October 16, 2010, 09:52 PM
I sold a P01 because: 1) the trigger made my trigger finger sore, 2) slide was difficult to rack, when compared to other 9mms I own and 3) the DA trigger reach was long.

Gelgoog
October 16, 2010, 10:24 PM
CZs are great guns for the price. however the undervalued CZ price due to cheap eastern european labor is going the way of the do do. Now with their prices on the rise I do not think the CZ is as good of a value as it once was. Sure they make good guns, but while my P-07 duty at $375 is a nice gun, its not so nice at $599 (which is what they are running now).

At the new pricing I think I will look elsewhere.

David E
October 16, 2010, 10:55 PM
But overall, especially for the price, they are great pistols with lots of potential.

But how much more money does it take to reach that potential?

Exactly.

TexasGunbie
October 16, 2010, 11:08 PM
Which CZ are you talking about? I wouldn't get a polymer CZ because to me Glock is the King of polymer.

I have a CZ 75 P01.
I will give you both good and bad.

Good.
1 So far very reliable, feeds everything. Ran about 4000 rounds through it and still strong.

2 SA trigger is great.

3 The gun is beautiful, very good looking.

4 Love the look of the slide.

Bad
1 Some people complain the slide is hard to pull back, I don't have this issue. But my friend can't pull the slide back, so I am aware that the slide can be a negative.

2 Some complain there is no decocker... my CZ has a decocker though.
Even if there isn't a decocker, there is a safety, so carry it locked and cocked like a 1911.

3 DA trigger is long, which is the point of a DA trigger. Well if you chamber the round and drop the hammer, then you deal with the DA trigger. Even so, after the first shot, it's SA, so what you got to worry about?

I think CZ is among the best 9mm full metal handguns.

ol' scratch
October 16, 2010, 11:21 PM
I don't like the trigger in my 75B, but I guess there are aftermarket parts. GREAT pistol otherwise.

Furncliff
October 16, 2010, 11:22 PM
CZ75b...Out of the box trigger is gritty and generally poor. The poor man's fix is to pull the trigger 5000 times. It worked for me, although the double action pull is fairly long, at least it's smooth now. Next time I'll have someone massage the new trigger and I'll go with the SAO.. I've broken roll pins three different times. It would be difficult for me to part with it.

I love the Kadet conversion I bought on a whim, and I use it a lot.

I bought a freshly Duracoat'd CZ82 recently. My daughter really likes this one. I guess when you do one of these paint jobs you have to take it all the way down. That may be the cause of all the problems I'm having (slide locks back every shot, when it sometimes does cycle correctly, the hammer follows). But I like it and I'll keep after it till it runs right.

Trigun
October 17, 2010, 12:03 AM
The only thing I didn't like my CZ is too good to be true and the cheapo plastic grips. I sold this baby several moons ago and now I am after a CZ 75B SA.

http://i47.tinypic.com/2c0ajc.jpg

TexasGunbie
October 17, 2010, 12:07 AM
Oh yeah... the take down is not as simple compare to other handguns.

Stasher1
October 17, 2010, 12:55 AM
They are great guns... but just like their Dan Wesson counterpart, they are not the great value they used to be. I remember having bought CZ 75s brand new for around $400. Now they cost as much as a Glock, Beretta, etc.

x2

I had a P01, 40P, and 40B and paid less than $300 for each of them. They were great values at those prices, but at their current prices...not so much.

FWIW, I'm also blown away by the price of new Dan Wessons. I bought a brand new pre-CZ PM7-S from a dealer back in '04, I believe, and it was a little over $500. Hell, the retail on the CBOB's when they were first released was less than $700. CZ takes over, Bob Serva leaves, and the price goes through the roof.

Philo_Beddoe
October 17, 2010, 01:10 AM
Their triggers often need work.

I sent mine to CZ custom for their trigger job and now its the best DA/SA i have felt lol.

Also my trigger return spring broke after about 10000 rounds but that was a real cheap fix.

GunTech
October 17, 2010, 01:20 AM
The take down is about as easy as it gets, assuming you can get two lines to line up. :) No take down latch to deal with.

Trigger definitely is long and sloppy.

I hate the painted finish. Wish they had a nice blue or black oxide.

I prefer the old rounded trigger guard.

Other than that a brilliant pistol if you like all steel guns. 9mm is like shooting 38 wadcutters compared polymer guns.

Too bad the price has gone up so much.

labhound
October 17, 2010, 02:01 AM
The CZ 83 is a great .380 but the grip screws tend to loosen and if slightly over tightened the cheap plastic grips will crack!

Isher
October 17, 2010, 01:21 PM
I've just realized how d**ned hard it is to write any dislikes about CZ pistols. I have yet to shoot one which is less accurate than I am, have never had one break or FTF, have found that the triggers smooth in nicely with dryfiring/shooting etc. etc. The rest lies in your style of shooting and what aesthetics you like.

One thing I think most people are unaware of is that CZ makes pistols in all steel, alloy frames, polymer frames. In finishes of glossy blue, satin nickle, stainless, polycoat. In calibers of 9mm, .40 S&W, .45 ACP. From fullsized weapons down to the little Rami. No other manufacturer that I know of offers this range of choice, and the quality is consistent from end to end.

Take a look here:

http://czcustom.com/cz-ub-usa-factory-pistols.aspx

I knew this would happen. Started off to write dislikes, and ended up in likes...............

Isher

leadcounsel
October 17, 2010, 01:58 PM
I could offer two stock improvements.
1) Having a dual decocker/safety instead of either/or as standard or optional
2) Supplying a metal guiderod (trivial correction)

Other than that they are about as perfect and affordable as you can ask for in a handgun.

jmr40
October 17, 2010, 02:08 PM
When they were selling for $300 they were a great range gun. They were never a great choice for a SD gun, especially at over $600 now.

Heavy gritty SA triggers, extremely long trigger reach in DA.
Factory springs are always suspect and should be replaced.
Many problems with extractors.
Too heavy for a carry gun.
Narrow slide and tiny ejection port make it very difficult to clear malfunctions.
The safety lever is an improvement over the Browning, but not as good as 1911.

The grip feels good in the hands, but is the only gun I've ever seen where the beavertail curves down instead of up. It digs into the web between the thumb and trigger finger when firing.

They are among the most accurate pistols made, but have too many negatives to be seriously considered for SD. Still make a great, but overpriced range toy.

GunTech
October 17, 2010, 02:48 PM
I am always amused by the 'too heavy' comments about the CZ. This is a fairly recent complaint that comes about because of the plethora of alloy and polymer guns now available. The Cz-75 (all steel) weight about the same as a Browning HP-35 and less than a 1911 full size. Of course I assume we are talking about a steel from 75 (2.2 pounds), since a P-01 is only 1.8 pounds, 6 ounces more than a GLOCK 19.

I shot and carried a CZ-75 for many years - my first was a ATF form 6 Canadian import before the Czech import ban was lifted. Heavy, yes - but no different than the 1911 I carried for years and the latter is not considered overly heavy by many. And very, very reliable.

GunTech
October 17, 2010, 02:52 PM
Isher, thanks for the link. Going to order a Glossy Blue!!

sprice
October 17, 2010, 03:20 PM
small side difficult to rack and not a lot of aftermarket parts.

buckeye8
October 17, 2010, 03:55 PM
My CZ-75B is a nice gun, but not without flaws. With less than 200 rounds through it, the nickel on the slide rails is peeling/flaking off. I called CZ with my concerns, and they said this is normal and expected, because something about the way they do the nickel plating. Supposedly whatever coating they put on before the nickel is not applied to the rails, which will cause some pistols to lose the nickel on the rails quickly. Has not affected function, and CZ says it will not, but it is definitely corner cutting, and nobody likes to see the finish gradually flake off of their gun, even if it is "normal".

Also, the triggers are pretty sloppy in general. I didn't understand this until I had more handgun experience, but the CZ 75B trigger is not very impressive compared to other guns, even those at or under the CZ price point. The Omega trigger system CZ's are better.

I can carry a full-size 1911 more easily than my CZ-75B. It is a thick, heavy gun, ill-suited for carry. It is, however, extremely accurate and has been reliable. Mine still serves nightstand duty.

I loved the size, weight, reliability and accuracy of the CZ P-07, but sold it because it was gradually wearing small holes in my body with its sharp edges, and the lack of quality holsters made for it made the problem difficult to remedy. The lack of an aftermarket for the P-07 in general was frustrating. Oh, and lest I forget, a month after I bought the P-07, the white sticky strip peeled off of the front sight for no apparent reason. Apparently a common problem. When companies go so obviously "cheap" on such an obvious part of the gun, I am the type who can't help but wonder what other small parts they might have cheaped out on.

Overall, I like CZ's, but I am not as "into" them as I was when I first got into handguns. As the prices continue to go up, they seem like less and less of a value compared to other $500-$600 guns. The P-07 makes a viable alternative to the Glock 19 when priced at $400, but if the price continues to rise, there is no reason to choose CZ over Glock/M&P/XD, especially once you factor in maintenance, parts replacement, aftermarket upgrades, and holster selection. Spare mags alone will run you $50 apiece once you factor in shipping costs.

I think I am moving out of my CZ phase, like a lot of folks seem to do once they gain a certain amount of handgun experience. They are good guns, but not the amazing steals I once thought they were. And their shortcomings become more apparent to me as I become more refined and discerning as a gun owner. I'm not saying don't buy them. I'm just saying don't drink the CZ "kool-aid". You aren't getting a $1000 gun for $500, so don't go into it thinking you are.

pfraser
October 17, 2010, 04:15 PM
Slide is small and ejection port is tiny. Recipe for disaster if under stress when a failure occurs.

AKElroy
October 17, 2010, 05:20 PM
CZ Pistol Dislikes - voice 'em

Ummmm......Nope. I got nothin. Ohhh--The name is hard to pronounce hence the abreviation.

Pilot
October 17, 2010, 06:05 PM
I can't really think of nay except I prefer the old style rounded trigger guard over the newer squared off one. However, I have a 75B and PCR which have the newer trigger guard so its just an personal, aesthetic issue which does not keep me from buying, shooting and carrying them.

Zundfolge
October 17, 2010, 06:14 PM
One thing that has kept me from getting a CZ75 compact .40 is that you just can't find flat baseplate magazines for them ... what is the point of getting a compact if the stupid plastic baseplate makes the grip almost as long as a full size?

Here's what you get:
http://www.czub.cz/upload/cz-big/CZ_75_COMPACT_40.png

Here's what I want:
http://images.yuku.com/image/x-png/87f154d3d578aae7b7173abc516ea2784e74ad9.x-png

Sam1911
October 17, 2010, 06:32 PM
The Omega trigger system CZ's are better.OMG! Tell me you didn't just say that!

I'll have to respectfully disagree. I've polished and slicked up my Omega 75B extensively and changed springs to as light as I dare go. The SA pull is still creeeeeeeeeepy (and long) but the DA pull has become a joke among my shooting community.

One longtime Beretta (and CZ!) shooter asked to try mine. After bringing the hammer about 1/2 way back -- three times -- he gave up, set it down, and said he'd "better not."

My inquiries so far into improvements and/or gunsmithing have been fruitless. Apparently even Angus & Co. don't know how to fix the Omegas.

GojuBrian
October 17, 2010, 06:42 PM
I love Cz75b's, they are just awesome overall.

The dislikes I had with mine:

1. Trigger
2. Sights
3. Slide serrations (too little)

Other than that it has great potential. The only other 9mm I would want is a Browning Hipower. :)

rattletrap1970
October 17, 2010, 07:07 PM
I must have gotten an oddball, I picked up a CZ52 in an estate auction and it has a very nice trigger. One of the better triggers on most of my guns. I will admit it is snappy to fire, but I have no problem shooting it single handed. You just get used to it. It's not the prettiest gun I own but I like the styling just the same, I find it very representative of where it was made, the circumstances, the use and the times. It is utterly reliable and easy to work on (for me anyway, I have the armorers course).

Shadow 7D
October 17, 2010, 07:54 PM
yeah, but there is a difference between a military design CZ 52 and the civilian line of the CZ 75, an actually the correct nomenclature would be vz. 52

ckone
October 17, 2010, 09:57 PM
Sight options and their aftermarket in-general is limited, otherwise they're fantastic.

True that their out-of-the-box triggers aren't usually the greatest, but if that's going to be mentioned it's only fair that I share the other side of that coin: after a trigger job they can easily rival the best triggers found on top-shelf $3k+ 1911's, and while not as easy as a Glock, they're easier than most anything else and they're fairly easy to work on yourself (the decocker versions are indeed trickier though).

gb6491
October 17, 2010, 10:05 PM
Machining sometimes a little rough
That is certainly the case with my 75B (although it's pretty much cosmetic).
Regards,
Greg

1SOW
October 17, 2010, 10:19 PM
All versions of the CZ75 problems: Beside the trigger pull when new, the service and treatment at the CZ Custom Shop is awful. If they would stop providing such excellent service @ offerring so many trigger,sight,grip and other options; I wouldn't keep going back to improve a gun that already shoots way better than I ever will.

It was also true that it took almost $18 in spring changes and some polishing work to make the DA/SA trigger really smooth and light and the gun's performance flawless.

schmeky
October 17, 2010, 10:46 PM
but have too many negatives to be seriously considered for SD

With all due respect, I have never seen anyone post a comment like this. I have several semi's that have been 100% reliable; 2 of them are CZ's. I would bet my families life on a CZ-40B, the other is my SP-01 with a 40 S&W top-end. In thousands of rounds, never a bobble. Ever. My CZ-97 is stone axe reliable and I count some under powered reloads as a malfunction, otherwise 4,000+ rounds with -0- malfunctions (out of 6,000+ fired).

Seriously.

The biggest negative IMHO is the trigger. The good news is it can be improved to an incredible degree. However, the Omega, well, uh, sorry, but that's a question CZ answered that no one asked.

Isher
October 17, 2010, 11:00 PM
Speaking of reliability............ found this in my archives.

February 2003

The P-01 is now a NATO classified pistol and issued the NATO stock number NSN 1005-16-000-8619.

The CZ P-01 is the culmination of several years of exhaustive design and testing. Ceska Zbrojovka has always had some of the most rigorous testing requirements in the world but, the Czech National police has required that they go even further, the testing regiment for this new pistol was the most demanding anyone has ever encountered. There are almost 20 specific requirements covering everything from accuracy to interchangability, from safety to reliability/durability and everything in between.

The pistol: The CZ P-01 is a Gen 3 pistol that began as a requirement for a lightweight compact pistol that will deliver the accuracy and durability of a full size, full weight pistol. This was no small task, several manufacturers declined to even start the project.

The first thing you notice about this pistol is the M3 light rail on the frame, a first for CZ, the alloy frame is a little wider at the top than a steel CZ 75. This adds strength and rigidity for mounting the light and increasing the accuracy and service life of the pistol. The P-01 also sports enhanced controls as well as a drop free magazine and a lanyard loop.

The pistol was required to pass a wide variety of tests:

The police required that the pistol ensure the highest level of comfort, an extended slide release was added as well as an extended magazine release and the trigger was reshaped to give a more consistent pull throughout the trigger stroke.

The pistol must be 100% reliable in extreme conditions, the following is a list of some of the minimum requirements.

Must be able to complete the following without failure:

4000 dry firings
3000 De-cockings
Operator level disassembly 1350 times with out ware or damage to components.
Complete disassembly 150 times, this is all the way down, pins, springs etc.
100% interchangability, any number of pistols randomly selected, disassembled, parts mixed and reassembled with no failures of any kind including loss of accuracy.


Safety requirements:

Drop test
1.5 meter (4.9”) drop test, this is done 54 times with the pistol loaded (blank) and the hammer cocked. Dropping the pistol on the butt, the muzzle, back of the slide, sides of the gun, top of the slide, in essence, any angle that you could drop the gun from. This is done on concrete and 0 failures are allowed! A failure is the gun firing.

3meter drop (9.8”) 5 times with the pistol loaded (blank) and the hammer cocked, This is done on concrete and 0 failures are allowed! A failure is the gun firing.

After these tests are complete the gun must fire without service.

The factory contracted an independent lab to do additional testing on guns that previously passed the drop tests. These pistol were dropped an additional 352 times without failure.

The pistol must also complete an environmental conditions test:
This means cold, heat, dust/sand and mud.
The pistol must fire after being frozen for 24 hours at –35C (-36F).
The pistol must fire after being heated for 24 hours at 70C (126F)
The pistol must fire after being submerged in mud, sand and combinations including being stripped of oil then completing the sand and mud tests again.

Service life:
The service life requirement from the Czech police was 15,000 rounds of +P ammo!
The pistol will exceed 30,000 rounds with ball 9mm.

Reliability:
The reliability requirements for the P-01 pistol are 99.8%, that’s a .2% failure rate.
This equals 20 stoppages in 10,000 rounds or 500 “Mean Rounds Between Failure” (MRBF)
During testing, the average number of stoppages was only 7 per 15,000 rounds fired, this is a .05% failure rate, a MRBF rate of 2142 rounds! Over 4 time the minimum acceptable requirement.
The U.S. Army MRBF requirement is 495 rounds for 9mm pistols with 115 grain Ball ammunition.

Heritage:
The P-01 is based on the CZ 75, the most used pistol in the world. Over 60 countries use it as the standard side arm of their Armies, National police forces, National security agencies or other Law enforcement organizations. No other pistol can make this claim.

Just might barely be sorta OK for SD, kinda, maybe.

Isher

Strahley
October 17, 2010, 11:17 PM
I don't like how small the slide is, hard for me to get a good grip on it when slingshotting

benderx4
October 18, 2010, 12:20 AM
I don't like how gritty the CZ triggers are.

jmr40
October 18, 2010, 12:51 AM
Isher,

Those stats are not comforting to me at all. An expected service life of only 30,000 rounds!!! There are numerous accounts of Glocks, Browning Hi-Powers and 1911's exceeding 200,000 rounds.

7 stoppages in 15,000 rounds seems high to me. The Army set the bar pretty low if they expect a malfunction every 495 rounds.

The CZ may be acceptable for a SD firearm, but when you combine the $600 price tag, narrow slide, tiny ejection port, and heavy steel frame there are simply many, many better choices for SD purposes.

The added weight, great accuracy they achieve as well as the ability to shoot single action make for a great range toy.

I've owned several CZ's, but no more. I'm not into shooting games at the range and found that other designs are better suited for serious personal protection.

Someone mentioned the Browning. They are one of the best pistols ever, far superior to the CZ in every way, except price, but are being phased out also. If the BHP cannot make it, the CZ won't either. Steel framed pistols will soon be as extinct from law enforcement and military use as the do do bird.


Despite CZ's carefully worded deceptive ads CZ pistols are rarely used except in a few third world country's and by a few guys on the internet. There is only 1 gunshop within 100 miles of here who carries CZ pistols and you cannot give away used ones.

Pilot
October 18, 2010, 09:05 AM
If the BHP cannot make it, the CZ won't either. Steel framed pistols will soon be as extinct from law enforcement and military use as the do do bird.


CZ now makes a complete line up of lightweight alloy framed pistols such as the CZ-75D PCR and P-01 and polymer framed pistols like the P-07 and SP-01 Phantom.

CZguy
October 18, 2010, 10:31 AM
I've owned several CZ's, but no more. I'm not into shooting games at the range and found that other designs are better suited for serious personal protection.


Would you care to expound on this? I'm pretty happy with my PO-1, and RAMI as self defense guns.

rbernie
October 18, 2010, 10:54 AM
Can anyone share a feature or personal preference that they dislike about them?I don't like the magazine brake (although that's easily fixed) that's on on many of their models, the extractor spring tends to be a bit whimpy, and the stock sights could be better.

Other than that, they are as satisfying (if not more so) as any other service 9mm DA/SA pistol. Certainly, the trigger on the (pre-Omega, which is all that I have experience with) CZ's is no worse than on the 92F or the P226/P229 pistols.

Madcap_Magician
October 18, 2010, 11:08 AM
My biggest complaint is that they don't make a compact .45, only the CZ97.

MrIzhevsk
October 18, 2010, 11:14 AM
^ you could always go with a witness or jericho in .45. Well, good luck finding a Jericho anymore. :neener:

dcarch
October 18, 2010, 12:25 PM
Only the fact that their .45, the CZ 97, is a little to big for my hands. (and I have big hands.) Other than that, Ilove 'em. I wish they'd make more of their guns in .40, though.

bg226
October 18, 2010, 12:32 PM
1. Slide Profile is bad.
2. Trigger is bad.
3. Weight

Steelshooter101
October 18, 2010, 05:33 PM
I have as many rounds thru my CZ 75 D as my custom Hi Power and have had the Hi Power Back to browning for broken front site blade, broken extractor, cracked chamber and cracked slide. Never once for the CZ. The CZ seems to be able to feed any ammo with no problems.

Average Joe
October 18, 2010, 06:35 PM
They cost too much to shoot, because every time I go to the range, I just can't stop shooting it....

okc-zee
October 18, 2010, 06:54 PM
I bought a PO1 3 yrs. ago...I currently own 4 9mm's and to me,It's by far the best 9mm I've ever come across....absolutely flawless...I've had 2 buddies go out and buy CZs after shooting mine...

sniper4usmc
October 18, 2010, 08:48 PM
I dont like tool marks on slide,and brown spots on the barrel..

rockheadd
October 18, 2010, 10:29 PM
I'm not a hardcore pistolero like many guys posting here, but I think it's a fine pistol, at least the 75B is.
I have three semi-autos that I feel are the finest semis ever produced: Ruger Mark I .22, Czech 82 9x18 and the CZ 75B. Why the best? Because every single time I pull the trigger they all three go bang and the round goes where I am aiming. The 75B had eaten every dirty, stinky el cheapo type of 9mm I've fed it, and it has NEVER failed through over 3500 rounds. The Czech 82, same story only that little beauty I bought used (At least it was carried a lot) and it's had well over 5000 rounds through it. The Mark I has had brick after brick of .22s put through it, taught both daughters to shoot with it and it has only failed to fire a couple of times, but they were all rounds from the same 500 round box of stinky ammo. It has to have fired over 10,000 rounds.
So, what's wrong with the CZ's? The 75B is considered heavy, the trigger won't get you into the Olympics and the finish isn't all shiny. What's right with the 75B? They go bang, very accurate, will eat anything you feed it.
I paid $395 for mine NIB and felt it was a screaming deal. If I were to do it all over again, for $475+....I'd go with the P-07 as it's slightly more refined, lighter, a little shorter. Before the price went up, they were a no brainer great buy. Now....I'd have to shop around, but why when I'm perfectly satisifed with my 75B...

CZguy
October 18, 2010, 11:04 PM
I dont like tool marks on slide,and brown spots on the barrel..

As a general rule I don't either..............if you were making a comment about this topic, then I don't understand your point. :confused:

Isher
October 18, 2010, 11:30 PM
Hmmmm

The dread "brown blotches". Researched that quite a while back, when I noticed them on one of mine. What they are, apparently, is some kind of surface oxidation from the process of hammer forging the barrels. Four ought steel wool with a little bit of kero removed the problem in about the same time it took to disassemble the gun. Permanently.

But, by all means, if that is the kiss of death for CZ's in general...........!


Isher

easyg
October 19, 2010, 10:29 AM
I once had a CZ 75B SA .40.....

The slide was kind of difficult to rack because it is small and rides inside the frame instead of over the frame.

The sights were a bit on the tiny side.

The trigger had a rather long pull and a very long reset...not a good thing.

Marshall
October 19, 2010, 12:00 PM
I once had a CZ 75B SA .40.....

The slide was kind of difficult to rack because it is small and rides inside the frame instead of over the frame.

The sights were a bit on the tiny side.

The trigger had a rather long pull and a very long reset...not a good thing.

That's the only CZ I would have interest in. But the same drawbacks you listed have kept me away. And, I'm not fond of their huge trigger guard.

Gord
October 19, 2010, 12:20 PM
I have an Omega and haven't had any trigger issues yet - knock on wood.

My griefs:

- The Omega and SP-01 beavertails are the only ones that don't dig into my hand with a high grip. A standard 75B would be blister city for me.
- The safety is too damn far forward and too damn small, compared to a 1911's. Nearly impossible for me to engage or disengage without shifting my firing grip on the gun.
- There's not much of an aftermarket or a holster market. Be forewarned.
- The slide is noticeably more difficult and slower to manipulate than a standard outside-the-frame slide. If you're into competition, this would probably be a much bigger drawback for you than it is for me.

millertyme
October 19, 2010, 01:46 PM
I've never met an affordable pistol with a great or even better than good trigger. Easy solution and probably just as cost effective - go out and shoot it. Even if the trigger itself doesn't improve, at least you'll become more familiar with it and will learn to work around it. I was very fortunate to find a used one that had been smoothed out and some of the other mentioned inadequacies resolved, specifically the hammer camming and the often mentioned gritty trigger. The DA on mine is awesome with a smooth pull to a clean break, and the SA is crisp with little creep, a clean break, and is fairly light at about 2-1/2#. But, even if you aren't as fortunate as I was to get a nicely broken in model (for a steal, I might add), just go out and shoot it. It will either (a) smooth out after several hundred rounds, (b) you'll get used to it and won't notice it over time, or (c) you can spend the money to get the shop to work on it and make it feel like a gun you've owned for years. I prefer to shoot mine.

millertyme
October 19, 2010, 01:49 PM
The slide was kind of difficult to rack because it is small and rides inside the frame instead of over the frame.

That's why I prefer the 9mm. I can use the forward cuts on the slide to rack it.

Big_E
October 19, 2010, 02:10 PM
I don't own one, but I have shot a few and handled too many at gun shops.

I don't like:
Not the great value they used to be.
The black enamel (IIRC) looks kind of cheap to me and older ones I have handled seems to wear easily. Would love to park one of these.
It's harder to find accessories for. Like grips.

These pistols are about to become a whole lot more popular. They are one of the featured sidearms in the new Call of Duty: Black Ops game.

dcarch
October 19, 2010, 03:11 PM
They are featured in COD? Cool! Buy one now before the price skyrockets!

CZF
October 19, 2010, 06:11 PM
It might be the 75 Machine Pistol in COD: BOPS

You can see the forward grip in some of the trailers.

I guess we will know for sure next month")

GIJOEL
October 19, 2010, 06:46 PM
The only thing I can say is that what the trigger feels like out of the box isn't what it will feel like after getting broken in, everything CZ that I have owned has started off extreamly tight. As far as the barrel wear goes I know that they run tight, my CZ 452 (.22lr rifle) and my p-07 required me to use smaller cleaning jigs. There barrels are hammer forged, as far as I know thats the best way to make a barrel.

SleazyRider
October 19, 2010, 07:09 PM
1. I object to spending additional money to improve the trigger of my 75B---or any gun, for that matter. You mean to tell me that in this day and age of CNC a reasonably good trigger can't be produced right out of the box?

2. The slide of my 75B sure is slippery to "slingshot."

3. Magazine brake.

4. Painted finishes of my CZ-82s.

But I love 'em, especially the CZ82s!

Nomad44
October 19, 2010, 07:24 PM
I only have one.... Nice overall design, very solid. Cons, I only have 1.

Full Metal Jacket
October 19, 2010, 07:38 PM
every gun has dislikes.

if you're searching for the "perfect gun", it doesn't exist.

GunTech
October 19, 2010, 11:01 PM
Those stats are not comforting to me at all. An expected service life of only 30,000 rounds!!! There are numerous accounts of Glocks, Browning Hi-Powers and 1911's exceeding 200,000 rounds.

Other than the GLOCK, I'd like to see some citations for this round count. We were scrapping out 1911 frames after about 50,000 rounds due to frame cracks. MTBF was stated as 25k rounds. My wife's agency was seeing Sigs with frame cracks at around 20-30,000 round and were replacing guns about every 5-6 years (they are going to GLOCKS).

30,000 round service life is probably typical of any alloy framed major caliber auto.

1SOW
October 20, 2010, 12:22 AM
9mm 75B: well over 23K rounds - shoot light loads, most 124/125 gr JHPs

-Mag brake: Fixed with a hammer and anvil at about 300 rds, personal preferences, --free
-Replaced sights at about 3K rds, F.O. front, larger black rear, personal preferences-- $80
-Replaced 3 springs for personal trigger/ammo preferences @ 3K rds-- $20
-Replaced grips with aluminum grips @ 3k rds , personal preferences -- Home made, free
-Rear sight broke @about 19K rds-- free replacement by CZ Custom Shop
-Slide stop broke @ about 20K rounds --$30 for new improved version

Re Hammer camming: fixable with optional hammer (with different hammer hooks).
re Grips: numerous options available in plastic, rubber, aluminum and cocobola hardwood
re Sights: Several options available in fixed or with adjustable rear
re Mag Brake: Optional drop-free mag brake available or flatten the 'bend' that retains the mag when released.

I'm not selling CZs. In the just finished USPSA National Match CZ came in second to a Glock followed by three S&Ws, a Beretta, and more in the top 10. These were all accurate reliable pistols in a tough run&gun competition.

My personal preferance is for a steel/alloy gun with a hammer that can be fired DA/SA or SA when cocked and locked. I own a 100% reliable Sig DA/SA but prefer the CZ.

Broken Anvil
October 20, 2010, 04:02 PM
CZ doesn't make a 10mm..........yep, that's it.

schmeky
October 20, 2010, 04:41 PM
"Sometimes" I can't get all my rounds in the same hole :rolleyes:


http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/7061/img0841o.jpg

tescrex
October 20, 2010, 04:53 PM
Despite CZ's carefully worded deceptive ads CZ pistols are rarely used except in a few third world country's and by a few guys on the internet. There is only 1 gunshop within 100 miles of here who carries CZ pistols and you cannot give away used ones.

Couple points. First is that there is no longer such thing as a "third world". The term was used to describe the three worlds during the Cold War by the West. 1st = Capitalist nations, 2nd = State Socialist nations, 3rd = Periphery. Even by using the classic definition, you'd still be off as all the slavic and State Socialist nations would be the 2nd world. Small niggle, but it's an interesting little fact.

I don't know where you live, but here in SW Washington State, they carry them at Cabelas, and 3 of 4 local gun stores. I also see tons of them at our recurring gun show at the Puyallup fair grounds.

As to the thread, in my local shooting group there's been an SP-01 (friend's) and a P-07 Duty (mine). The P-07 duty has been the most reliable handgun even over a P226 and an XD-9. I've put at *least* 3k rounds through it, about 1k of which were slightly dirty reloads, and I've not had a single malfunction. Even a friend who chronically limpwrists hasn't had a malfunction while shooting it. The gripes in the group have been a not great trigger on the SP-01, the small slides, and a couple malfunctions with the SP-01.

SharpsDressedMan
October 20, 2010, 05:34 PM
Oh, you know when you ask for criticism, you are going to get some counterpoints, too. I just spent the afternoon shooting my 1976 production short rail CZ75. Almost sacrilege to fans that would put it in a safe and just take it out and fondle it every now and then. But, I discovered that it did indeed shoot well when I first got it, and it is a complete guilty pleasure to shoot it. I have done nothing to it, but today found out that the original numbered magazine, which did NOT get the recent upgrade of Wolff springs that three other mags did (their springs come in packs of 3) started to balk, and caused feed jams. Well, it IS 34 years old. I grabbed another, re-sprung magazine, and voile, fed like a champ! This gun required no sighting in at all, has a rich blue finish, and the classic good looks. It is one of the few guns that I have been able to put into play, as-is, with everything "right". I will not blame the magazine.....a little age does it's thing to each of us. Easy fix. The fit, the feel, the performance. It is all there. I like my Walther P99, and my Browning HP's, and my later CZ75 (the longer rail pre-B model), but this one has it all. Simple and elegant. It may someday break a slide stop, and I may even see if a good smith can modify a current, stronger slide stop to look like the original, as a backup, but that is all I can see that would ever take down this pistol. It is "easy/deadly" at 25 yards. http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m247/matquig/DSC05742.jpg

KaceCoyote
October 20, 2010, 05:45 PM
my factory rubber grips were horrible. I'm looking for a replacement now.

I want a CZ in 10mm. I want a compact framed CZ, in 10mm with a light rail, decocker and night sights.

The 97B is bleh.

Zundfolge
October 20, 2010, 05:51 PM
I want a CZ in 10mm. I want a compact framed CZ, in 10mm with a light rail, decocker and night sights.
Agreed. I gotta wonder if the CZ 75 Compact .40 (http://cz-usa.com/products/view/cz-75-compact/) could be re-chambered ... and maybe Witness mags modified to work. Maybe use the Witness compact 10mm recoil spring as well.

But frankly just buying a Witness and having it refinished (GOD I detest the "Wonder Finish") and tweaking it a bit would probably be the way to go there. Of course its still not got a rail.

RonDeer10mm
October 20, 2010, 05:58 PM
In 10mm if they had one CZ75B in 10mm:rolleyes:

GunTech
October 20, 2010, 06:18 PM
So you basically want a Bren10? The gun was heavily influenced by the CZ-75, which the great Col Cooper opined was a great gun except for caliber.

http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/a/a7/Pistol_US_Bren_Ten_10x25mm%2C_aka_10mm_Auto.jpg/400px-Pistol_US_Bren_Ten_10x25mm%2C_aka_10mm_Auto.jpg

GunTech
October 20, 2010, 06:23 PM
BTW, Vltor appears to be continuing with their attempt to revive the Bren 10 under the name Fortis.

Here's the last thing Vltor had to say on the project

There has been a lot of talk about the delayed release of the Bren Ten, and trust me when I say we have been listening. We had shut this site down when we turned everything over to Sporting Products, but we feel it is time to get back in touch with everyone and let you get the word straight from the source – I feel that we have not only a responsibility to be the ones that tell you about this, but we have an obligation to tell you why.

Earlier this year, Abrams Airborne Manufacturing (the parent company of Vltor) received a large contract from the U.S. Marine Corps for the M-32A1, Multiple-Shot Grenade Launcher; additionally, we had received other smaller orders for the Grenade Launcher from other DOD and military organizations. Given the critical need and immediate demand for these weapons, we shifted a great deal of our resources towards getting these done.

This brings us up to just a few weeks ago… we were faced with a really tough call, but one that simply had to be made: we were just not satisfied with the one of the castings. After assembly and testing of the production pistols, parts of the pistol design just did not meet our expectations. Keep in mind, we made many changes to the internal mechanism of the new Bren, and the problem that we were seeing is not a quality or material problem, it is simply that we knew that we could make the final product better. So we are.

This is a set-back, but is not a show-stopper… I know that all of the explanations and reasons in the world are not going to please some folks, and we do not blame those of you that are disappointed or even angry. Just think how we feel about this, the Bren has always been a labor of love for us, the only reason we are doing this is because we all here really believe it is something that needed to be done.

I do want to say that from the start, we have never taken any down payments or reserved a serial number – we have not even taken a purchase order from the distributor yet. We are still engaged in this and we have as much desire and enthusiasm devoted to this as anyone – I hope that you can hang in there a little while longer, we are opening the blog back up and it will be the point of contact from here on out.

source: http://vltor.wordpress.com/

schmeky
October 20, 2010, 06:29 PM
SharpsDressedMan,

Your post #92, about that rare, early, gorgeous, glossy blued, most desirable, short railed, super fine CZ beauty . . . . . . I HATE YOU MAN :neener:

armoredman
October 20, 2010, 06:49 PM
I hate CZ pistols, absolutely detest them so much I am giving 3 away on my website for Christmas... :)
Tried 'em all, CZ fits me better and works better than any other.
I would like to see a 10mm CZ 97, factory says not likely right now. I'd also like to see a 97 in 38 Super, highly unlikley. Better if we could get the 92 25 auto subcompact made here in .32 or .380, would be very nice. But more things are coming from CZ...
Oh, as for third world countries, yes, the Phillipene National Police force is a third world country, I guess, just dumped Glock for the P-07.

Shadow 7D
October 20, 2010, 08:05 PM
Um, what about those clones
you can get your witness in all those calibers...

Isher
October 20, 2010, 08:23 PM
SharpsDressedMan -

I DOUBLE DOWN DIRTY HATE YOU MAN.

Feeling the love yet, bro?

Isher

tekarra
October 20, 2010, 08:41 PM
Sharps,
That is one beautiful pistol!

SharpsDressedMan
October 20, 2010, 09:58 PM
I didn't want ALL of them to end up in museums. AND, you only live once; you may as well do it in style.

CZguy
October 20, 2010, 10:02 PM
Couple points. First is that there is no longer such thing as a "third world". The term was used to describe the three worlds during the Cold War by the West. 1st = Capitalist nations, 2nd = State Socialist nations, 3rd = Periphery. Even by using the classic definition, you'd still be off as all the slavic and State Socialist nations would be the 2nd world. Small niggle, but it's an interesting little fact.


While I'm sure that you are technically correct.......every time I'm in one there's just a certain ambiance. :D

Full Metal Jacket
October 20, 2010, 10:32 PM
Here's the last thing Vltor had to say on the project

all those pre-orders taken and no product (or valid excuse). sounds like a ponzi scheme lol



the original Bren Ten was a steamy pile. unreliable, and prone to parts breaking. why anyone would be excited about it's re-release after a failed first marketing attempt is hilarious.

SharpsDressedMan
October 21, 2010, 12:22 PM
It would seem to me that EAA/Tanfoglio/Witness could have easily retooled to produce an exact copy of the Bren Ten, as the Witness 10mm platform had already ired out a few things, with no small one being a working magazine. The new company (Vltor?) should have contracted with them.

tescrex
October 21, 2010, 12:55 PM
@CZGuy - Yeah, I know what you mean. They're now called developing nations if you read the Economist/capitalist economic publications, or underdeveloped nations if you read socialist economic publications. Same thing as what the third world used to be. The third world distinction is important because it has connotation that they're being used by and against the two major world systems.

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