whats the deal with 9mm 1911's being so rare.


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Kingofthehill
October 16, 2010, 07:26 PM
It seems like their quite popular and there are only a few manufacturers out there making them.

Also, when you do find the 9mm 1911 and even used, the price is just about what it originally sold for.

Why aren't these guys making more of them in 9mm configurations?

I have a Springfield Loaded 9mm and an STI Trojan but am always on the hunt but they are so hard to come across.

Whats the deal with the 9mm 1911? What am i not seeing?

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Mooseman
October 16, 2010, 08:19 PM
I would hazard a guess that most folks see the 1911 as a 45 platform and every other caliber as being a niche. I think manufactures make products that they feel are in demand by the average gun owner. You'll find lots of folks here who love 9mm, 10mm, 38 super, etc. 1911s but we tend to be more into the hobby than the average Joe. Personally I think the weight of the 1911 lends itself very well to 45 but is a bit heavy for the smaller 9mm but that's just my feeling.

gwnorth
October 16, 2010, 08:40 PM
I'd agree, the real mass demand for them just is not there. Far, far more gun owners thinking "9mm" immediately turn to a Glock or one of the other, common on the gun store shelves, makes and models. Most have no idea what a 1911 is, in any caliber, and are not interested in learning.

Folks on these kinds of forums represent gun enthusiasts, and I'd hazard at a guess make up less then 5% of the actual gun owners (maybe even less then 1%, given estimates on the number of handgun owners). The makers of 1911's know that within their niche, the .45acp still rules as most sought after, and 10mm and 9mm as marginal market share. Just like the even rarer .40s&w 1911.

yeti
October 16, 2010, 09:21 PM
1911 = .45 acp
P 35 (BHP) = 9m/m Para.

harmon rabb
October 16, 2010, 09:41 PM
Who the heck wants a 9mm that holds like 10rds when you can have one that holds 17-19rds? I think that's the issue with a 9mm 1911 ;)

Shipwreck
October 16, 2010, 09:46 PM
Well, I have a fairly expensive 9mm 1911. And, I love it.

It's awesome to target shoot with, and it's really sweet looking...

But, admittedly, while I've been tempted 1 or 2x to use it as a carry gun... The 10+1 limitation compared to other 9mms of the same size is an issue.

But to shoot, it's really light on the recoil in the 1911 platform.

wanderinwalker
October 16, 2010, 11:19 PM
gwnorth:
I'd agree, the real mass demand for them just is not there. Far, far more gun owners thinking "9mm" immediately turn to a Glock or one of the other, common on the gun store shelves, makes and models. Most have no idea what a 1911 is, in any caliber, and are not interested in learning.

Folks on these kinds of forums represent gun enthusiasts, and I'd hazard at a guess make up less then 5% of the actual gun owners (maybe even less then 1%, given estimates on the number of handgun owners). The makers of 1911's know that within their niche, the .45acp still rules as most sought after, and 10mm and 9mm as marginal market share. Just like the even rarer .40s&w 1911.

I think this is a good assesment of the market in general. We (gun boarders, competition shooters, hobbiests and enthusiasts) are a small minority of the overall picture of gun owners. There are many things in the firearms world we like and appreciate but are just not mass-market items. The 10mm auto, 6.5mm rifle cartridges, 9mm 1911s, .45 ACP revolvers and .22s that costs more than half a week's pay all float to the top of my head in the enthusiast niche.

And also, for most people a ".45" means a 1911. The idea that it may not be made by Colt, or be a .45 just doesn't hit. A Rock Island 1911 is "just like a Colt .45" to many, not simply a "1911-pattern .45" like it would be to those reading this board. Of course, my Glock 17 would be a "Glock 9mm", a GP-100 would be only a ".357 Ruger" and on and on. You probably get my drift by now.

But don't think the manufacturers think they are making too-few 9mm 1911s. If they can sell all they make at a price-premium, they're going to be happy to only turn out a few without creating an over-stock.

swinokur
October 16, 2010, 11:27 PM
There are 9mm 1911's?

:evil::uhoh:

BlayGlock
October 16, 2010, 11:55 PM
They are so rare because they are so awesome and those who have them do not get rid of them. They have gotten much more popular since ammo cost have skyrocketed.

Springfield Custom Shop Build

http://i687.photobucket.com/albums/vv239/BlayGlock/Springfield%20Custom%20Carry/SpringfieldCustomCarry004.jpg

http://i687.photobucket.com/albums/vv239/BlayGlock/Springfield%20Custom%20Carry/SpringerCustomCarry001.jpg

ugaarguy
October 17, 2010, 12:06 AM
Folks on these kinds of forums represent gun enthusiasts, and I'd hazard at a guess make up less then 5% of the actual gun owners (maybe even less then 1%, given estimates on the number of handgun owners). The makers of 1911's know that within their niche, the .45acp still rules as most sought after, and 10mm and 9mm as marginal market share. Just like the even rarer .40s&w 1911.
I think that hits the nail on the head.

It reminds of a conversation a rep had with a few other folks and me at the local cigar shop. We were discussing the fact that we, the cigar shop regulars, couldn't believe that a certain brand's new Connecticut Shade wrapped (very mild wrapper leaf) cigar, with a toned down filler blend version of that brand's signature full bodied flagship cigar, was now one of the brand's best sellers. We all agreed that it was a very flavorful mild cigar, but this brand made its name on full bodied smokes. The rep then told us that he has to constantly remind himself that we who frequent the cigar shops, hang out, and talk about cigars are less than 10% of the cigar market. He went on and told us that a very well known, and very mild brand, is still a top seller; because most folks go into the shop grab their box to last them a month or so, and go home. The majority of the market isn't looking to broaden their pallettes, nor sit & talk with aficionados in the shop.

We, the folks on THR and other firearms forums, are the aficionados, and we're sadly the minority as well.

There are 9mm 1911's?
Yep, they're called .38 Super 1911s. I think that's another piece of the puzzle. Colt has been making "Government Models" in .38 Super since the 1920s. The Super is the historic small bore chambering for a 1911. I think most non .45 ACP 1911 buyers either step down to .38 Super or step up to 10mm. I don't know the ratios, but from experience, 10mm and .38 Super 1911s are far more common than those in 9mm NATO/Luger/Parabellum.

You can also use that to your advantage on the used market though. In areas where 1911s are more common, I see shops putting less money in those chambered in .38 Super, because a used Super is more difficult to sell than a used .45. Keep in mind that with a barrel & magazine swap you can convert a .38 Super 1911 to 9x19. Hunt a good deal on a Super, and get the new bbl to run it with 9x19. If the frame is a quality forging you can also add a stiffer recoil spring, ream the Super barrel's chamber, and run 9x23 Win if you're feeling adventurous. Last, 9x19/9x23/.38 Super and 10mm/40 S&W also run the same ejector. That leaves you with a top end swap to go between the 9mm family and the 10mm family on a sound 1911 frame.

Sorry for the information overload.

ol' scratch
October 17, 2010, 12:27 AM
Because why have a 9mm 1911 when you can get a Hi Power?

Shipwreck
October 17, 2010, 12:35 AM
Because some of us prefer the trigger on the 1911 - and the layout and design. Plus, why hi powers are customizable, there is tons more stuff out there for 1911s

outerlimit
October 17, 2010, 01:26 AM
9mm 1911's are usually target guns and it's a lot harder to get 9mm up to major power factor than .38 Super and .40S&W though I've heard some people doing it..

And .38 Super has a lot longer history with the 1911 than 9x19.

The Lone Haranguer
October 17, 2010, 09:43 AM
It seems like their quite popular and there are only a few manufacturers out there making them.
If they were more popular - i.e., a demand for them - more manufacturers would make them. :p It reminds me of the various 9mm revolvers - they are introduced, then dropped because no one actually bought them.

I would hazard a guess that most folks see the 1911 as a 45 platform and every other caliber as being a niche.
That is how I see it. It was originally designed and engineered around the .45 cartridge.

AKElroy
October 17, 2010, 09:57 AM
Didn't Magnum PI carry a 9mm 1911? These were very popular in the 80's; I would see them regularly at shows right next to Colt's .45 offerings. Always wanted one.

If I were imprisoned to live in a magazine restricted state, this would definately be my choice.

Jim Watson
October 17, 2010, 10:42 AM
There are more 1911 based 9mms than there used to be.
There is a pretty good present demand from shooters who like the gun type but want cheaper ammunition. The makers have been slow responding to it. Several companies brought out .38 Supers when the market demand is very low.

It isn't the recoil, is isn't the history, it isn't the accuracy, it is the almighty dollar. Why should I pay for .45 ACP or .38 Super when I can get 9mm econo-ball for half the price?

dewalt-2
October 17, 2010, 01:44 PM
I love my Kimber Pro Carry II, it's light, accurate, and reliable. I highly modified mine-Cylinder & Slide trigger/hammer group, Kimber tactical mepro night sights, some SS goodies from Kimber, and Kimber fancy grips. It's a ball to shoot, and much lighter than my 5906 for carry.
My other non .45 is a Kimber Rimfire Target, very fun, and the Mrs. love's it-the only other handgun she'll shoot is my Ruger Bearcat.
1911 is a great platform for any straight wall chambering. You don't see the 9mm's because they move from the shops quickly, and once you've fired one you'll know why.
Fun guns...
http://i999.photobucket.com/albums/af120/Radar-1/001-9.jpg

Quack
October 17, 2010, 02:23 PM
They're not rare, i see them everyday :)

Didn't Magnum PI carry a 9mm 1911?
It was a Star model B. it was used because the gun would cycle properly with blanks (as opposed to .45 blanks), but the gun "character" was supposed to be a .45 ;)

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