Owner's Manual Question?


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Ala Dan
December 16, 2003, 07:11 PM
Seasons Greeting's to All-

T'was just wondering, what Manual Of Arms do you
THR members find the most useful; with all the necessary
information for the proper use of the weapon purchased?

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

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Nightcrawler
December 16, 2003, 07:50 PM
You mean like a printed manual, showing proper manipulation of the weapon?

'Cause when I hear "manual of arms", I think Port Arms, Left/Right Shoulder Arms, Present Arms, etc.

Interesting unrelated note regarding the manual of arms. I was able to actually salute an officer once this summer, by holding my weapon in the "present arms" position, as is technically proper to do when carrying a weapon.

It's interesting for two reasons. Number one, outside of the occasional drill and ceremonies, it's almost unheard of. Number two, I did it with a 16 pound light machine gun. :D

ajacobs
December 16, 2003, 09:09 PM
I find it odd that it has not come up often for you, are you active or in the reserve/NG?

Ala Dan
December 16, 2003, 09:12 PM
Update:

Folk's I meant to say the Manual Of Arms that is
suppose to be included with the sale of each new
firearm.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

ajacobs
December 16, 2003, 09:24 PM
I am sorry ala dan, I got caught up with my other thoughts. I have not found one useful in terms of USE of the firearm. At the most they contain limited sighting information. Never have I seen full take down instructions, a list of yearly maintance, mention of changing the recoil springs after so many rounds etc. I may have been soured by the first 50 or so I have read as I haven't really read to much of the later ones.

P95Carry
December 16, 2003, 09:32 PM
Most I have and have seen .... devote perhaps half or more to safety. Now that is both necessary and laudable but ... once you ''know the rules'' ... you don't need em over and over!

The remainder usually seems to be maintainance stuff ... and Ruger give an exploded usually IIRC. In that respect they are quite useful... and also they give a full parts list with numbering. On balance i think they score pretty high.

Actual useage etc never seems to appear ..... meaning shooting technique but I guess that wouldn't.. other than refering to sight picture stuff perhaps..... and adjustments of same.

Ala Dan
December 16, 2003, 10:18 PM
Hello!

Att: ajacobs, No sir I'm not a member of any active
reserve component; nor am I on active LEO status, at
the moment! :( But hold the phone, cuz that could be
changing after the New Year? :uhoh:

I tend to agree, that most Manual Of Arms
cover over half the booklet with safety issues; which
certainly is very important. But, I was wondering who's
manual is most informative? Would it be the high
dollar firearm's such as SIG-SAUER, H&K, GLOCK, SMITH
& WESSON, BROWNING, ETC; or the cellar dwellers such
as LORCIN, BRYCO-JENNINGS, CLERKE, and RG?

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

P95Carry
December 16, 2003, 10:32 PM
I guess I've certainly not seen all ... by any stretch of the imagination but ... I do think Ruger makes a very fair job of it.:)

I believe also, Wetherby do OK too.

Tamara
December 16, 2003, 10:37 PM
Interesting unrelated note regarding the manual of arms. I was able to actually salute an officer once this summer, by holding my weapon in the "present arms" position, as is technically proper to do when carrying a weapon.

Ah, yes, but have you cracked off a good (and obscure) rifle salute from "Order Arms"? (...and how would it be done with a SAW? :uhoh: )

BigG
December 17, 2003, 08:49 AM
The vast majority of them are nigh unto worthless old pal. Mostly lawyer talk and all that. I like the little Colt Automatic Pistol manuals but I dream of somebody giving a bound illustrated and informative manual with a high dollar firearm. :(

Werewolf
December 17, 2003, 10:24 AM
The only thing important to me in the manual that comes with any firearm I purchase are the instructions on how to break it down for cleaning and maintenance.

In some cases instructions on loading and unloading the weapon were useful as what the manual stated wasn't what I expected so I follow the manual.

The most infomative of all the manuals I've gotten was the one that came with my Win M94. The Glock and Ruger manuals are OK. The Saiga manual provided just the minimum amount of information necessary for basic field stripping but didn't even cover break down to a level necessary to clean the gas tube or how to adust the front sight. The Stoeger manual I've got for my SXS Shotgun is a total joke and a waste of paper (lucky for me I knew how to break down a SXS like the Stoeger I bought). The manual I got for my Marlin 25N is little better.

Most of the rest of the printed matter in manuals is just company CYA.

The safety stuff is useful for a user that is totally new to firearms and since a company has no way of knowing whether what they're selling is a buyer's first or 100th weapon I suppose they are obligated to put it all in there. Hell to be honest usually once a year or so I'll break one out and read all the safety stuff just as a reminder and maybe if I've gotten into a bad habit a slap in the face needed to get out of that habit.

sm
December 17, 2003, 10:58 AM
Ala Dan,
Hello Sir,
I"ve been thinking about your question and after some replies I believe the older Manuals were more informative. Less laywer talk and more info for owner.

My '74 Super X model 1 for instance, though it has multiple languages, was written very well with pictures for take down, putting back together, maint/inspect. Parts ID easy with mfg part #'s. Gun Safety rules, were included, of course.

Same with the older Remington 870, 1100, even the nylon 66

I found an old S&W manual for a M&P .38 spl, ( model 10, or 64 ) Same deal, easier to read, straightforward, some warranty, legal speak, gun safety, ammo designations. IIRC this was one of the guns I got a box of S&W ammo thrown in with the purchase. ( dates me and the gun) I do recall the model 422 22lr semi auto came with a sighting tool and sighting in instuctions.IIRC some tips on hand placement and trouble shooting ( grip and such)

Older Ruger MKI and MKII bunch thinner than the newer manuals I understand, more info for shooter, sighting in info.

Newer manuals, well not added many 'new mfg' per se, the older Beretta 21 more informative than the newer model 21, info was different on maint, and more legal stuff. Keltec has color pics to better see parts, simple and to the point. Kimber series I pretty good, seems more info less layer speak than series II.

NAA mini revolver. Little gun, but very good on instructions, I had some newbies tell me they wish the other guns they had , had a manual and warranty this good.

Perhaps times have changed, people growing up with guns and being taught, less litigation back then, no internet.

TFL/THR provides more info, in less time, from real people with real experience for instance. Print something on paper to cover the mfg on litigation, the owner will use the 'Net, perhaps to gain info. Probably saves the mfg the salary on persons to answer questions, via phone, fax, snail mai, and e-mail.

Sad..not where we are going, I think we have already arrived. :(

Good question my friend, take care.

steve

hansolo
December 17, 2003, 11:30 AM
I bought a Czech made pistol(CZ75B): not only is the manual in three
languages(Czech, English & German), it has photos to help field strip,
a brief troubleshooting section, and a very clear "blow up" with all parts named and numbered. Not that it matters, but the front/back covers are nice glossy stock and the manual is Model-Specific.


Early this year, I decided to buy a S&W 910s(value line version of 5906).
I have nothing but good things to say about the pistol, but the "manual" is a non-model specific generic "S&W Semiautos," as opposed to generic "S&W Revolvers." Now, I have two S&W's(one revolver)and they are great, but, would it be a big deal to produce "model-specific" manuals?:cuss:

Sunray
December 17, 2003, 01:56 PM
"...the Manual Of Arms that is suppose to be included with the sale of each new firearm..." That's not a Manual of rms. That's just a manual. You have a specific firearm in mind or just in general?
"...full take down instructions..." That's because they don't want to taking it apart. They really want you to send it back to them or to a warrantee station. Liability issues. I've never seen a repair manual for any civilian firearm either. I doubt they are published for public sale. There are lots of factory manual sites, but they're just the online version of the manual that comes, or should come, with a new frearm. Most of the manufacturers web pages have downloadable manuals. But just the user's guides.

Ala Dan
December 17, 2003, 02:04 PM
Greeting's All-

You know, this subject could get real interesting! :)

I have scrounged together three manual's for us
to take a look at, one by one. And in NO particular
order they are:

1) North American Arms "Mini" Revolvers- as my friend
sm has pointed out, a very informative small
paper booklet consisting of 8 pages, from front to back.
It explains the company's excellent warranty on page 2,
with all the disclaimer's, statement of liability, and the
danger's and/or warnings being written in heavy, black
bold-face type. Instructions for use are plain, simple,
and to the point. The last page offers a retail price
part's list; as well as a schematic diagram of the mini's.
The only negative I can find is the fact that the quality
of the paper could be better. Rating: 95


2) Current Smith & Wesson Revolver Manual- a high
gloss manual with about 27 or 28 pages from front
to back. Very explanatory, would be quite easy for
all new revolver shooter's to educate themselves.
Subject's covered are: Safety Instructions and Warning's,
Basic rules of handgun safety, Preparation for firing, Types
of Ammunition and Warning's, Model Number Identification*,
Inspecting Your Revolver, Loading-Firing-Unloading Your
Revolver, Maintenance, Proper Sight Alignment*, Cleaning,
Transportation and Storage, Service-Shipping-Parts, Very
Detailed Schematics (with exploded view and revolver
variation's*), Parts List, Warranty Statement, Extended
Service Policy, International Authorized Service Center
Listing's, and (3) lined pages for your own note's.

*FootNote - Very Useful and Important Information!


Rating: 100, and deservingly so


3) 1995 SIG-SAUER self-loader manual - a very precise,
multi language manual consisting of roughly 83 or 84
pages, and complete with a factory-fired test target.
Some of the material such as safety warning's, warranty
statement's, and liability disclaimer's are written on color
coded (light redish-orange) paper; and quickly would
gain the users attention! For a novice, the lingo might
be difficult to understand; or even a bit misleading? Field
striping diagram is very good and useful for the beginner.
The back cover offers the consumer information on their
affiliation with SIGARMS INC, J.P. SAUER & SOHN GmbH,
and HAMMERLI AG SPORTWAFFENFABRIK with all the
applicalbe address'es, telephone, and fax number's.

Rating: Sorry guy's, but even with the test target
I could only squeeze out an 85


So, there you have it. My thought's, observation's, and
opinion's on these three manual's. If some other THR
members would like to contribute their finding's on this
subject to the rank-and-file membership, that will be
most welcomed.

Respectfully,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

BigG
December 17, 2003, 03:06 PM
Interesting, Ala Dan, my friend. The S&W manual I'd like to see. All the ones I've had were like a single sheet of paper folded up with generic instructions for all revos. The SIG manual (I have one, too) for all the pages is not much good either. :cuss:

I agree that this forum is about the best place to get info about our firearms.

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