I Guess I Really do want a 1911 after all!


PDA






Too_Pure
October 18, 2010, 05:35 PM
I went to a local range that rents guns today fully expecting to confirm my decision to make a P220 Equinox Carry my 2nd gun purchase. The purpose of this gun is to carry concealed, and my M&P 40 will stay in the house.

I was surprised that it didn't really feel that great to me. The grip felt a little awkward in my hand, and the kick felt like more than I expected. And that was not the carry version, so I can only expect it would increase. I wondered if it was because it was my first time shooting .45. The guy at the gun shop said he switched form .40 to .45 because he found the kick more manageable. So I must be nuts..?

And finally, I did not shoot 10 rounds well with it at 10 yards. I mean, I wouldn't want to be the sillhouette on the target, but I can do much tighter groups with my M&P .40, which I am used to and have some practice with.

So then I decided to try what I thought I'd eliminated, a 1911. The only brands they had for rent were Sig and Springfield. I opted for the Springfield because it was a compact version and that is what I would get, the Sig was a 5". It felt better in my hand, I shot better with it... still not like my .40 but predictably, 10 rounds down and to the left. Easy to fix with practice.

I was surprsed that I liked the 1911 better. So now I am back at square one, needing to pick the right 1911 for me. I have considered Kimber, but have read some scary stuff about reliabilty. I also considered S&W, and have read some great things. I am looking preferably in the < $1000 range, but have a habit of expanding the limits I set just a little ;).

Because this is going to be a daily carry gun I want something that will work when I pull the trigger. I don't want to wonder.

So I thought I'd tap the wisdom and knowledge of this community for some good advice. I've been reading on here for a while, posted one reply in another thread the week after I got my M&P. Thanks for your help.

If you enjoyed reading about "I Guess I Really do want a 1911 after all!" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Zundfolge
October 18, 2010, 05:41 PM
1911s are basically the girl with the curl in the middle of her forehead.

When they're good, they're very good but when they're bad they're horrid.

Unfortunately "good" when it comes to 1911s usually means "expensive" (but not always so).


Your best bet for a reasonably priced 1911 is to find a gently used one from someone you trust who has worked the kinks (if any) out of it.

Russ Jackson
October 18, 2010, 05:46 PM
Everyone should own a 1911....Russ

Sky
October 18, 2010, 05:48 PM
If you could shoot the Metro Arms American classic ll in one of it's many flavors you might figure you found your 1911. There are plenty of good 1911s around but for price and quality myself and a few friends think it can't be beat. For $1000 you could buy 2 and still have money for ammo.

ThePunisher'sArmory
October 18, 2010, 06:01 PM
Ive been looking at the Kimber Custom II's the last 2 weeks. The problem with some of these 1911s is that people demand them to be built to such tight tolerances that the slightest amout of dirt or lack of lube effect it. The accuracy gained is not worth the lack of reliability. Especially in a handgun. If I can hit a 6" piece of steel or larger from 25ft its good enough for me. I'm still sold on the Kimber though because of its trigger. Unless anyone has a better example around the $800 mark......?

G27RR
October 18, 2010, 06:27 PM
If yo want compact, look at the Colt Defender. It's easily under $1K and mine works great.

http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n634/G27RR/Colt1911s.jpg

Too_Pure
October 18, 2010, 06:28 PM
That is exactly what I have been reading. I am really liking this little number, though (with Crimson Trace grips): http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson2/upload/images/firearms/zoom_lg/108296_01_lg.jpg

ThePunisher'sArmory
October 18, 2010, 06:44 PM
Now that is too sexy Too Pure. I did play with a couple S&W 1911 at the shop today. Pretty good triger. Very equal to the Kimber just a bit heavier. Its got all the bings and buzzers you would want. It was just a bit too pricey for me at $999.

Rail Driver
October 18, 2010, 06:48 PM
RIA 1911 Tactical CS: $450+shipping/transfer. I've had no problems with it aside from a few issues feeding the last round from a new magazine (cleared up on its own after running through 30 or so rds with the faulty magazine).

http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/131/l_0b48977eff6e482ca898cd1c3617815a.jpg http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/118/l_2ebb6f00be724ee3b74130104bc0e0d4.jpg

http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/136/l_a66b31b8a4f242d1a6e97e64716f9343.jpg

ScratchnDent
October 18, 2010, 06:53 PM
My <$800 Smith & Wesson has been excellent, except for the grief meted out by the purists who see the external extractor as sacrilege. :)

ichiban
October 18, 2010, 07:34 PM
I have a government S&W 1911PD and recently picked up a commander size. Outstanding firearms and I have had absolutely zero issues with either gun.

flusher
October 18, 2010, 07:42 PM
Get yourself a pre 70 Government, like this 1951

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l75/p0838/Img1664.jpg

Jed Carter
October 18, 2010, 08:24 PM
My 1911 for carry is the SIG RCS It is a commander length slide on an officer size frame. It also has Novak night sights, a definite plus for a CCW. Runs flawless and shoots great, carries well and imprints less than my CZ PCR.

tincanhunter
October 18, 2010, 08:55 PM
These http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=196138304 are great little pistols for carry. I had one and really liked it. I'd still have it, but the opportunity came up to do some trading for a Les Baer Thunder Ranch Special.

BTW - 1911's are very addicting. You buy one, you WILL want others in your collection.

foolsgold80z
October 18, 2010, 09:02 PM
Gaahhhh!!! I've been bitten by the 1911 bug too.
I'm a traditional sort of guy though so it's going to be a Colt.

Zerodefect
October 18, 2010, 09:04 PM
http://www.kimberamerica.com/products/pistols/compactprocarry/pro_tle_II/

twofifty
October 18, 2010, 09:44 PM
Too Pure, I guess you've already considered that your new choice is SA only, not DA/SA like the Equinox.
What condition do you plan to carry your 1911 in?

Too_Pure
October 18, 2010, 10:56 PM
Condition 1 or 3. What do you suggest?

Thanks all for your feedback.

I am totally afraid of Kimber. I have spent a lot of time reading reveiws today and there is just too much negative feedback on them. I am more and more leaning toward the S&W, and I am biased because I am very happy with the one I have. I also like that lifetime warranty.

Since I am unable to actually shoot either I have to rely heavily on other's reports.

What is the deal with Kimber? I would be pretty upset (or pretty dead) if my new $1500.00 gun failed on me first time out with it. I've read many stories of them malfunctioning.

Zerodefect
October 18, 2010, 11:04 PM
Condition 1 or 3. What do you suggest?

Thanks all for your feedback.

I am totally afraid of Kimber. I have spent a lot of time reading reveiws today and there is just too much negative feedback on them. I am more and more leaning toward the S&W, and I am biased because I am very happy with the one I have. I also like that lifetime warranty.

Since I am unable to actually shoot either I have to rely heavily on other's reports.

What is the deal with Kimber? I would be pretty upset (or pretty dead) if my new $1500.00 gun failed on me first time out with it. I've read many stories of them malfunctioning.

Cocked and Locked. In a good holster.

Deosn't hurt to completely take apart the gun and put the pins on the outside, use your frame as a sear/hammer jig to check how they interact. Making sure they are postive or nuetral, and safe. You can also assemble the gun with the grip safety missing to check to see if the sear moves at all with the safety on. For piece of mind, never hurts, of course this was all done at the factory most likely anyway. A cocked and locked 1911 is probally the safest pistol I own.

The problem with Kimber is they make a good $800 gun. (Give or take the Series II safety) But they also charge $1500 for that same exact gun with gaudy checkering, bling, ambisafety, etc. They come with poor mags. And I've noticed that the machined finish on the outside of the barrel is a bit rough. Takes a while for it to fit. The gun smooths out eventually. A legit and measureable breakin. I just polished the barrel down a little, but not the end that fits the bushing. And polished the recoil rod to reduce friction. I removed my Series II FP safety and switched to Tripp and Wilson mags.

The low end Kimbers are a good buy, the high end Kimbers are not. I've noticed no perfomance increase in any of the fancy Kimbers over the simple TLE.

I'd take a K over a S&W or SF. if your looking to spen $1500+ look towards DW, LB or EB.

Rail Driver
October 18, 2010, 11:05 PM
I carry my 1911 loaded, chambered and cocked, with the thumb safety on.

Personally I would NOT carry a gun I had never shot. It's always a good idea to go out to the range and familiarize yourself thoroughly with your carry piece before you carry it. That requires live fire.

I would, however, be angry if I just dropped $1500 on a gun and it didn't work as it was supposed to. I like my RIA.

sdj
October 18, 2010, 11:38 PM
+1 on the commander sized SW1911PD.

shtr45acp
October 19, 2010, 12:06 AM
Hard decision. Colt ser 70 or before, even the ser 80's are ok with a little tlc and extras added after purchase. IaI M6000 were great lil .45's...really good fit for something from overseas and at a great price. Combat commanders are great ones too. Good luck...expect to add a few bucks to overall price 'cause you're prob gonna want it set up "your way". Ask around at the range and places like this.

dcarch
October 19, 2010, 12:10 AM
The "problem" with Kimber is that there are enough of them made that inevitably, malfunctioning guns crop up more often. Think about it. When was the last time you heard of an Olympic Arms 1911 that malfunctioned? But then again, when was the last time even you heard of an Olympic Arms 1911? :) I think a lot of people get "gun shy" about all the junk they read on forums. Shoot the guns you like, find the one that works best for you, and run with it. If you happen to get a lemon, call the company's CS (and hope it's not a Taurus or Para.) I personally like Kimbers very much, and would trust my life to a Custom II any day of the week. Go with whatever floats your boat.

MICHAEL T
October 19, 2010, 12:40 AM
get a Colt defender or a LTW Commander I have both and their great carry pistols

The LTW Commander weights about same as the Defender But you have a larger pistol
longer barrel 4 1/4" to Defender 3 inch

easyg
October 19, 2010, 10:14 AM
Because this is going to be a daily carry gun I want something that will work when I pull the trigger. I don't want to wonder.
Sounds to me like you already have a reliable carry pistol....why not your S&W M&P40?

If it's too big for concealed carry then why not look at a S&W M&P compact .40?

Think about it....do you really want to carry a handgun with a manual safety but rely upon a house gun with no manual safety?
You're already used to shooting the M&P so there's a chance that you will forget to disable the safety on a 1911 style carry gun when you're life is on the line.

Just something to consider.

Good luck,
Easy

ForumSurfer
October 19, 2010, 10:39 AM
We want what we want.

If you like a 1911 that much, you'll get it one day anyway.

Springfield makes some good ones. You can customize it to your liking later. Same thing with a Colt defender.

I'd recommend running a minimum of 100 rounds through those rentals because you can't get a feel with just ten rounds.

YMMV

Too_Pure
October 19, 2010, 11:57 AM
Sounds to me like you already have a reliable carry pistol....why not your S&W M&P40?

If it's too big for concealed carry then why not look at a S&W M&P compact .40?

Think about it....do you really want to carry a handgun with a manual safety but rely upon a house gun with no manual safety?
You're already used to shooting the M&P so there's a chance that you will forget to disable the safety on a 1911 style carry gun when you're life is on the line.

Just something to consider.

Good luck,
Easy
I've thought this myself. There are a couple reasons. The M&P is pretty bulky. Double stacked magazines. It has rails that I will mount a light on and keep it there, which will serve me well in the most likely middle of the night scenario at home. I'm more concerned with a manual safety while carrying. Now that those two practical concerns are out of the way I am fully willing to admit that I just love 1911's. The look. The feel. The history. So when I choose a gun to have pressed against me all day, every day, that is what I want, a 1911. Nothing against my M&P. It is a great gun. I will probably never get rid of it and always take it to the range with me.

Marshall
October 19, 2010, 12:14 PM
How about a Springfield Loaded Champion or a Loaded Lightweight Champion?

Madcap_Magician
October 19, 2010, 12:26 PM
If you're new to 1911s, I would try a stock one first, to learn on. That way, you can save up money, keep shooting the stock 1911, and eventually figure out what customized features you really want on it. That'll have you wasting less money early on expensive guns with features you end up not wanting.

Rock Island, Citadel, Iver Johnson, Remington, Springfield GI or Mil-Spec are all close to stock guns for $450-$600.

Too_Pure
October 19, 2010, 12:36 PM
I just read this Kimber review. A glowing endorsement.

http://www.americancopmagazine.com/articles/Kimbertrio/Kimbertrio.htm

Any opinions on this model? I live and shoot in the desert and it just looks right to me.

Yeah, I got some freetime at work lately . . . ;)

Too_Pure
October 19, 2010, 12:38 PM
If you're new to 1911s, I would try a stock one first, to learn on. That way, you can save up money, keep shooting the stock 1911, and eventually figure out what customized features you really want on it. That'll have you wasting less money early on expensive guns with features you end up not wanting.

Rock Island, Citadel, Iver Johnson, Remington, Springfield GI or Mil-Spec are all close to stock guns for $450-$600.
Heh. That might keep me from always wanting to buy a new gun.

youngda9
October 19, 2010, 12:56 PM
Get a M&P compact. Much lighter than a 1911, much more magazine capacity than a 1911, no safety to learn if you don't want to practice thousands of draws to ensure that you'll click it off during a stressful situation. And it'll be cheaper, and give you less headaches in the long run, than trying to find a reliable 1911...which I hear can be hard to do especially aroung the $500 price range.

Plus its the same platform you're already using. The full sized mags can be used on the compact as well. And you can get it in the same caliber as your FS M&P.

SwampWolf
October 19, 2010, 02:06 PM
My recommendation is for a Smith 1911-I like their Model 945 even better, but it's a touch more pricey. :( I'm big fan of the 1911 platform, but because ,imo, any 1911 should be carried "cocked and locked" if being toted as a self-defense piece I feel this mode of carry requires a bit more training for most people.
Actually, you apparently have passed on the pistol I carry concealed most often: the SIG Carry model. The single-stack mag configuration makes it comfortable to carry in an iwb holster and no safety lever makes it quick and simple to get into action. Though lacking "high" capacity in comparison to an equivalent pistol chambered in 9mm, the 220 is reliable, accurate and packs a big caliber punch without producing repeat shot compromising recoil.

dcarch
October 19, 2010, 03:14 PM
Hey Swamp Wolf, you got a 945?! Sweet! I've been wanting to see one for years. You need to start a new thread about it, complete with pics. Rock on! :D

CDW4ME
October 20, 2010, 04:17 PM
I have three 1911 pistols that fit your budget.
Kimber Ultra Carry II blued model with night sights, was about $880. I added skate board tape to the front strap.
Kimber Ultra stainless TLE II. about 1,000 has night sights, checkered front strap.
I also have a XSE Colt Lightweight Commander, cost about $950 (these are OTD prices) and I added night sights for another $120.

Summary: Kimber magazines did not work for me, last round failed to feed with "factory" Kimber magazine. I had the exact same problem with the Colt. Problem solved by using Tripp magazines.

The stainless Ultra Carry would randomly lock open when shooting hollow points; turns out bullets were contacting the slide stop causing it to lock open. I filed away the slide stop a little at a time with a file until the problem disappeared.

I'm happy with these pistols now. I've got about 500 - 600 rounds through the Kimbers and about 300 through the Colt. They should have come with a magazine that worked, but they didn't. Kimber sent a replacement, but it was just the same and demonstrated the same problem. I didn't even bother contacting Colt, I bought two Tripp magazines and installed 7 round Tripp spring & follower kits in the mags that came with the Colt; guess what... the "Colt" magazines worked fine with those replacement kits.

I stayed away from Springfield because they put an internal lock on their 1911's but not on their XD series, makes no sense. Why stick an internal lock on one of your semi-autos but not the others? It's not advertised on their website either. I hate internal locks. Although the IL on the Springfield can be removed, if you get aftermarket replacements for the parts involved, I don't like it on principle and wouldn't buy SA because of it.

Too_Pure
October 20, 2010, 11:09 PM
What about the Pro Crimson Carry II? It seems to be in the price range and readily available, online at least.

I am having a hard time finding any gun shops that have these in stock. Honestly, I trust S&W and have read almost only good things about them. It seems to be a mixed bag with the Kimbers.

If anyone knows of a shop in the Phoenix/Glendale AZ area that has these please let me know.

Too_Pure
December 9, 2010, 05:25 PM
Finally got it...:D

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5204/5242645401_3f06ca4d18_b.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5009/5242645359_9aea74e23b_b.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5002/5242645223_34a93fd017_b.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5085/5242645195_4e177a0a64_b.jpg

NMGonzo
December 9, 2010, 05:29 PM
Get yourself a used Rock Island and see if you like the platform.

I had 9 different types of auto pistol and I am down to only two now, one being a 1911 type.

BlayGlock
December 9, 2010, 05:45 PM
Everyone should own a 1911....Russ


Russ, you have shown yourself to be an erudite man of letters with such a statement. So provacative, so profound, so completely correct.

Confederate
December 9, 2010, 07:37 PM
Today's 1911 is excessively expensive and is not anywhere near as reliable as today's autoloaders. I like that they have hammers and aren't striker fired pistols, and I like more modern pistols such as the second and third generation S&W autos. I had, and liked, the Star BM 9mm pistols, but they were the same 1911 design and as such, weren't as reliable as other, more modern, autos.

I don't know of any 1911 pistols that are ultra reliable out of the box. I see them jamming frequently on various ranges. I hardly ever see a Beretta, Glock or S&W jam.

ohwell
December 9, 2010, 07:53 PM
1911's to me are fussier. Everyone should have at least one but the new age autos are at least for me easier to shoot well and easier to carry. One other thing to think about, if its going to be your carry gun and you ever have to use it or even pull it and point it at someone your most likely going to lose it for a while or maybe forever so tying a lot of money up in a carry gun can be risky.

BlayGlock
December 9, 2010, 10:02 PM
I don't know of any 1911 pistols that are ultra reliable out of the box.

You must not have shot very many then.

robctwo
December 10, 2010, 01:17 AM
Nice choice. I like the two tone myself. Now you need to reload to feed the beast.

John Wayne
December 10, 2010, 01:30 AM
I have the exact opposite problem--I think 1911s are one of the best looking guns, have an awesome market for accessories, are a classic design, etc...

but they just don't feel right to me. I can't shoot them worth a damn. I don't even like the trigger! I picked up a Sig 220 Compact and it felt great. Would probably have bought it if not for the weight, price, and 6 round capacity.

Hope you find one that works for you though!

orionengnr
December 10, 2010, 09:05 PM
What is the deal with Kimber? I would be pretty upset (or pretty dead) if my new $1500.00 gun failed on me first time out with it. I've read many stories of them malfunctioning
Kimber sells more 1911s than anyone, by a fairly large number. If a small percentage of them malfunction, that is still a fair number of guns. And the internet is a funny place. I see the same guys on different boards, bad mouthing Kimbers time and again...makes it seem like a larger problem than it maybe really is.

They are fairly pricey, which brings out the bashers ("reverse snobs", if you will).

I have owned about 25 1911s in the last 25-ish years, and I have really good luck with Kimber. I've owned eight so far, and never had an issue with any of them. On the other hand, I've had trouble with Colts, Springfields, Paras, Charles Daly, even a Les Baer and a DW. All are long gone with the exceptions of the Baer (got it working right) and the DW (working on it because I want to own a functional 10mm).

Take what you read with a grain of salt, try to shoot a few of everything, and see what appeals to you. Nothing wrong with buying used, especially if you can try it first.

I have my Eclipse Pro on my hip as I type this. I've been carrying it since the weather cooled off, shoot it at the range regularly, and put a few IDPA/Steel Challenge type matches through it over the summer. Works with everything from 200 gr SWCs to 230 gr+P JHPs.

CDW4ME
December 11, 2010, 07:15 AM
I like the XSE Combat Elite you got. I've got an Enhanced version from the mid-1990's that has an adjustable rear sight, it's a safe queen. Nice looking pistol.

It's apparent that some folks are not reading over this thread before posting.

kyletx1911
December 11, 2010, 08:12 AM
Today's 1911 is excessively expensive and is not anywhere near as reliable as today's autoloaders. I like that they have hammers and aren't striker fired pistols, and I like more modern pistols such as the second and third generation S&W autos. I had, and liked, the Star BM 9mm pistols, but they were the same 1911 design and as such, weren't as reliable as other, more modern, autos.

I don't know of any 1911 pistols that are ultra reliable out of the box. I see them jamming frequently on various ranges. I hardly ever see a Beretta, Glock or S&W jam.
i own 2 used rocks the fs has 5k in the pipe th4 4in rock 3,5k and my colt 80 2k, all are in my edc rotation the full 399.00 the 4in 375.00 the colt used 600.00 the only thing i did
was change the spring to a 18.6. So to say that is unfair, But as far as what kind up to you
but imho dont spend 2k first time out, the 1911 platform is wide open, go a little cheaper
find what you like dont like then change it out

Jonah71
December 11, 2010, 08:33 AM
I've had my "low end" used 2003 Kimber BP Pro for a while now and I love it. Of course I don't know what problems (if any) the previous owner(s) had with it or if any "improvements" were made. But it sure is sweet now. The $500 price seemed a bit high at the time but I don't regret it. I also have to admit....I still want a Colt!

CZ223
December 11, 2010, 08:38 AM
I own 5 Kimbers, 2 Taurus Pt 1911s and, 2 Rock Islands. The XSE is the only Colt that interests me. There are a couple Smiths and Dan wesson on the will have list also.:D

Magnumite
December 11, 2010, 10:28 AM
Alot of myth on the internet. And I've read the product even material bashing. Despite all this rest assured a tight 1911 is as reliable as a loose one. The components stay in relationship much better than a sloppy gun. A reliability test in sand indicated a tight custom 1911 was more reliable than a Glock. This test was done by an unbiased individual with vast amounts of combat, gunsmithing experience and is very highly respected.

I've built and owned probably close to 40 1911's. When set up properly they are highly reliable. All as produced models I've had have been highly reliable, save one SA MilSpec "gunsmithed" by the previous owner.

I will agree the upper end Kimbers are gussied up base models.

thedriver101
December 11, 2010, 12:25 PM
If you're looking for compact, reliable, and 1911, probably one of the best choices would be the Springfield GI Micro. 3" barrel, easy to carry, and reliable from what I hear. Haven't shot this exact model, but I've handled other SA's that put me to sleep in the reliability department. Best of all, they're only $500 ish, so you get another $500 to spend on holsters, mags, and ammo :)

Sky
December 11, 2010, 12:50 PM
I am out of town and yesterday had some LEOs wanting to see my 45 (mertro arms american classic ll) Some of the LEOs taught CHL classes and a few had been a LEOs for over 39 years. They were impressed with the American Classic and a few said they were going to purchase one... Some had been thinking about the purchase of a Kimber but had been turned off with all the problems some of their friends had been having so they were looking for an alt 1911.

I do not own a Kimber and some of the bad mouthing may be from those who can not afford them...I do not know what the deal is only they seem to be getting a bad rep in the field.

jim243
December 11, 2010, 04:13 PM
I do not own a Kimber and some of the bad mouthing may be from those who can not afford them...I do not know what the deal is only they seem to be getting a bad rep in the field.

Only by people that do not own them and have bought Glocks by mistake.

Jim

http://i620.photobucket.com/albums/tt284/bigjim_02/IMG_0789.jpg

Sky
December 12, 2010, 07:47 PM
hahahahehehehe Good answer Jim243!

If you enjoyed reading about "I Guess I Really do want a 1911 after all!" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!