Anyone know anything about lugers?


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TIMC
October 18, 2010, 06:54 PM
I have a P-08 luger that is double date marked 1915/1920 I picked up quite a few years ago that is a great shooter but I have never thought much about it until recently. I have done a lot of searching on the web and not really found anything about it.
On the top strap it has (bfy) and 11 is stamped on all the parts. There is a German militaery proof on the right side of the receiver that matches the 1914-1918 production years.
I think the bfy is the code for Mauser but I am not sure but I have no clue what the (11) stands for.
Any info would be appreciated.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v369/timc/P08luger.jpg?t=1287438422
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v369/timc/Lugerpic6.jpg?t=1287438750
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v369/timc/Lugerpic5.jpg?t=1287438750

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groundhog34
October 18, 2010, 07:06 PM
The byf does indicate that Mauser manufactured the pistol. Could the 11 be the number of the Mauser factory or the section manufacturing the pistol? Maybe Mauser had more than one plant or production line.

rocky branch
October 18, 2010, 07:10 PM
You have a mixed numbered piece,
The byf toggle train is from a later mauser pistol.
The 11 is the last two digits of the number of the pistol it came from.
Yours is also reblued-could be a Russian rework. Grips are replacement as well.

The 1920 is a Weimar property mark, indicating use after WW1.

You have a great shooter as originals are getting so expensive, many collectors don't shoot them for gear of breaking a numbered part.

TIMC
October 18, 2010, 07:55 PM
You have a mixed numbered piece,
The byf toggle train is from a later mauser pistol.
The 11 is the last two digits of the number of the pistol it came from.

The only way that could be is if they restamped everything because the 11 is stamped on the frame and takedown lever as well. I guess anything is possible.

The Lone Haranguer
October 18, 2010, 08:05 PM
The "1920" stamping looks curious. Compared to the "1915" stamp, it is uneven in depth and the spacing of the numerals, as if it were added later.

TIMC
October 18, 2010, 09:32 PM
I have read different stories about the double date codes so I am not really sure what it means. Some say it was an arsenal refinish date, some say it was an inventory designation number for captured pistols.

Trebor
October 18, 2010, 09:49 PM
There's a dedicated Luger forum out there. Those guys would know google up Jan Luger Forum and it should pop up.

jonnyc
October 18, 2010, 10:02 PM
The date of the pistol is 1915. The 1920 is really just a military property mark, it doesn't really show the date for anything. It was to prevent soldiers from taking their pistols home in the early 1920s. It was a crime to have military property at the time.
Can you show a pic of the numbers on the left side of the pistol?

TIMC
October 19, 2010, 10:42 AM
Can you show a pic of the numbers on the left side of the pistol?

Here is a pic of the left side.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v369/timc/Lugerpic7.jpg?t=1287496617

jonnyc
October 19, 2010, 03:43 PM
OK, what I believe you have is a pistol that was re-worked by the East Germans or Russians, and the non-matching bits were renumbered to match. The functional serial number for your gun is now #211, and some bits were XXX'd out and restamped to match. Does the left grip have a "bullseye" on it?

TIMC
October 19, 2010, 06:46 PM
OK, what I believe you have is a pistol that was re-worked by the East Germans or Russians, and the non-matching bits were renumbered to match. The functional serial number for your gun is now #211, and some bits were XXX'd out and restamped to match. Does the left grip have a "bullseye" on it?

Thanks for the info!

Both grips are plain with no markings.

tekarra
October 19, 2010, 09:37 PM
May I suggest you visit www.gunboards.com for starters.

Ohio Gun Guy
October 19, 2010, 09:47 PM
I'm not sure, but I've not heard of the russians re-matching/force matching serial numbers on captured guns. In my opinion, that is looking like a ww1 luger reworked for the 2nd go around by the germans. - Just my guess.

TIMC
October 19, 2010, 10:49 PM
All I know is she is an interesting old gun. I don't think it has any great value but it is a nice shooter. I ordered a new set of grips for it and a reproduction holster. Next to get a couple of extra mags.

Shoot66
October 20, 2010, 04:09 AM
No doubt the 1915 is the production year by Mauser. From what I have heard, IMHO the 1920 stamp is a proof of an after-war armourer`s inspection and re-issue for the post WW I republicīs police use.

rocky branch
October 20, 2010, 02:03 PM
Mauser never produced a Luger before the late 30's.
Johnny C gave the best definitive response.
Byf pieces began in 1941, I believe.
Originally, the ejector, take down and safety levers would be a gold strawed color.
Wood grips as well.

1920 signifies the pistol was taken into Weimar service post WW1.
It is a property mark, not a date or an inspection.
1915 was the date most of this piece was made, probably by DWM.
It has most of the features of the typical Russian or E German rework.
These were imported in laarge numbers in the 80s.
The renumbering is strange, but not a huge issue.

I have accumulated Lugers over 50 years and no expert, but I do manage to learn a thing or two.
Go to the Luger forum and you'll find more than you ever wanted to know.

Pieces like yours are going for 500-700 as shooters.

jonnyc
October 20, 2010, 08:55 PM
Just about everything I know about Lugers came from the Lugerforum.com

TIMC
October 20, 2010, 09:24 PM
Lol just about everything I know about Lugers came from this thread!

Onmilo
October 20, 2010, 11:07 PM
I'm gonna go out on a limb here, because I am not a Luger expert.

The gun looks like a VOPO East German Police Luger.
Does it have an import stamp on the underside of the barrel?

TIMC
October 21, 2010, 02:25 AM
The import markings are on the left side of the frame.

Onmilo
October 21, 2010, 10:13 AM
Look at the import mark carefully, they usually denote the country of origin.

Another possibility is a Finnish rebarrelled/Rebuilt Luger, they also used black plastic grips as replacements.

Not all, but many or most VOPO Lugers have East German made replacement magazines marked "1001"

All the Russian import Lugers I have seen have replacement wood grips and are hot dip blued, i.e. everything on the gun is reblued, frame rails, small parts, barrel bore,,,

To me these Lugers are far more interesting than the expensive all matching with all matching accessories, taken from a dead Nazi Lugers.

jonnyc
October 21, 2010, 08:36 PM
I agree, my current Luger being a "Russian Capture". Mine has the black plastic grips with angled grooves. I like them better than any wood Luger grips I've shot with. In addition, you can't beat the historical aspect of a "capture" Luger.

Ohio Gun Guy
October 21, 2010, 11:05 PM
There was at least one guy, who didnt want that to be a "Capture" luger...

Jim K
October 22, 2010, 01:58 AM
The post-68 import mark does not have the country of origin; it has the importer's name and address and the caliber (if not marked on the gun).

The gun was made in 1915, by DWM for the German army. The receiver was numbered with a four digit number that is now obliterated. The grip frame number (on the front, under the barrel) would have had the same number plus maybe a letter suffix, and the last two numbers would have appeared on all the major parts.

The receiver, as part of its original pistol, was again accepted into government service in or after 1920. (The date is that of the law that banned civilians from owning millitary weapons; putting it on the gun showed that it was legitimate government property under the Versailles treaty. It would also prove, if the gun were later found in civilian hands, that it was stolen, not a "bringback".) The byf toggle could not possibly have been part of the gun at that time.

At some point, someone put that receiver on another gun and re-numbered it to match the other parts. The byf toggle, and maybe the other parts, came from a much later WWII era pistol.

Unforetunately, all that history doesn't add up to much in dollar terms. As a mismatched, "shooter", it would probably bring $600-700.

Jim

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