Want ya'll opinion on a internet auction problem I "may" have


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catharsis
December 16, 2003, 08:55 PM
So I put a gun up for auction several times without getting a sale. Each time I lowered the asking price. It had no reserve and no "buy it now" option. At one point I edited my auction to include several other guns I may take as a trade.

After a few days I noticed a buyer bid on my auction at its starting price. He never contacted me with question, comments, nothing. Today was the end of my auction and I was preparing to send the buyer an email with instructions on how I would accept payment, etc, etc.

Well I get an email from him before I sent mine. It read something like this:
"I will need the address to send my FFL info. You will need you to send your FFL info to ______________ I will send the XX gun you asked for in your ad when I recieve your info."


Am I wrong for feeling a little peeved? He never mentioned or discussed a trade with me. I was never able to ask him questions about the gun he is supposed to send me--- ie:condition of, pics of, history of, etc, etc.


I wrote him back expressing my concern and am waiting for a reply. The gun "may" be perfectly acceptable but the way in which he went about it seems kinda' crappy. As far as I knew he "BID" a "MONEY PRICE" and not trade. If he would have corresponded with me through email and allowed me to discuss his offer then this would be a completely different situation. Had there been prior correcpondence and agreement for a trade then I would have shut my auction down and continued with the transaction.

Whats your opinion and recommendations on this situation?

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CZ 75 BD
December 16, 2003, 09:03 PM
or pics and specs on the proposed trade for approval. The golden rule says he who has the gold makes the rules and you have the gold in this case.

nico
December 16, 2003, 09:08 PM
I agree with CZ. It kinda sounds like the guy might be trying to scam you. Anybody with half a brain would have the common sense to know that somebody's not going to buy something used that they've never even seen pics of. I'd have him send you pics and info about the gun he wants to trade before you send your gun.

jamz
December 16, 2003, 09:16 PM
Either a scam, or the guy is confused about which auction he won. Hopefully the auction site will still have the auction page that you can refer to. (well, Ebay does, anyway not sure about the site you used).

I'd just insist that the guy was mistaken, and reference the text in your auction.

catharsis
December 16, 2003, 09:19 PM
I e-mailed him:


Thank you for your bid on the XXXXXX. I do not however remember agreeing to a trade with you. I would think you would have wanted to contact me to discuss if the trade would be accepted.

For instance, I would have wanted to know "at least" the condition and history of the gun, if it was going to be a SA or DA version, and to see pics. The gun "may" be exactly what I'm looking for but I would think it were courtesy to have prior contact with me before finalizing the deal.

Please email back with a response.





His response:

Your auction stated the guns that you would trade for so I placed a bid assuming that a trade would be acceptable as payment. You did not state in your ad to contact you prior to bidding for a trade. It says you are willing to trade for one of the following... I have a XXXX double action 9mm in excellent condition that is one of the guns you noted in the ad. I never considered that a trade would not be accepted from the way your ad is written.

Bill Hook
December 16, 2003, 09:33 PM
Don't confuse the issue with BS like trades during an auction.

If you want money, then an auction or listing the gun on a trader/for sale forum is in order. If you want trades, then an auction DEFINITELY IS NOT the way to go.

I'd give him the option to pay or just release him from his obligation and go about it in a more logical manner next try. You really confused the issue, so you bear some culpability here; the buyer doesn't know how you wanted to procede unless he's psychic.

thumbtack
December 16, 2003, 11:23 PM
I placed a bid assuming that a trade would be acceptable as payment.

You should reply to him and say "you the old saying about assuming don't you"

Redlg155
December 17, 2003, 12:50 AM
Sounds like the entire deal got off on a bad start.

I'd insist on payment in cash. On most auction sites the buyer would be in default because he did bid a cash price and did not follow through with the deal. Therefore you would not be penalized in the transaction and could re list the item.

If he has trouble understanding the rules of the auction, what makes you think he understands the grading system for firearms? I'd bet his excellent isn't what you think as excellent.



Good Shooting
Red

MoNsTeR
December 17, 2003, 10:36 AM
He bid cash, he pays cash.
I'm sure the auction site's rules stipulate that his bid is a binding contract.

Beav
December 17, 2003, 11:14 AM
Did you put anything in the ad stating that anyone interested in a trade must contact you instead of bidding? Otherwise, I agree with Bill Hook, you probably confused the guy.

spenny
December 17, 2003, 11:25 AM
plus, id get his gun in hand and check it out before sending yours.

bottom line he bid cash, there's no check box on any auction site to change the payment to a trade, payment in chickens or anything other than money

my .02
spenny

uglymofo
December 17, 2003, 11:27 AM
I agree with Bill Hook also. This could be a newbie's first foray into internet auctions or trades via auctions. It may never have occurred to him that he could inspect yours, and you, his, via email and pics. Before I had a paid email account, I bought guns sight unseen because there was just no way for me to receive pictures (Hotmail account storage space is too small for picture transfers). In my mind, I took a possible chance paying for the gun to inspect it, expecting that if it didn't meet my expectations, I'd send it back for a full refund less shipping. (Duh--I didn't know shipping was so expensive til I sold a gun via internet.) He may figure on a standup trade and inspection after the fact at both ends.

The "cash" onus may be on the buyer by the auction site's rules, but your offer to trade changed all that. Perhaps the moderators should have caught it and saved the situation, but in any case, because you offered trades, "cash only" certainly wasn't a firm condition of the sale. If it were me, I'd flat let him out of the deal if he wants out.

Nathanael_Greene
December 17, 2003, 11:48 AM
This sounds like a misunderstanding on the bidder's part; it seems to me that if he wanted a trade, he should've made that clear in an email to you up front. Even if you were willing to accept his gun as a one-for-one trade, there's still the issue of auction listing fees, etc.

If it isn't an honest misunderstanding, he's trying to scam you outright.

Archie
December 17, 2003, 11:49 AM
Talk to the guy a little more and don't do anything hasty.

Is the gun he offering something you want? If so, then determine the condition and features and agree on the trade.

Or, if it is unacceptable, then explain why.

I would never assume I could trade without some haggling. Nor would I assume I could offer a bid of $XX and then present a trade in lieu of cash.

On the other hand, if you mentioned a trade in your ad, he seems to be following that lead.

I bet you can work it out. Continue to talk.

Bill Hook
December 17, 2003, 12:05 PM
Let me reiterate here. Since this was a misunderstanding on how to go about things, on both ends, catharsis, as the seller needs to make himself clear that he really wants cash rather than a trade. If the buyer will agree, then it is settled. However, if the buyer doesn't, then the language of the auction, which mentioned a provision for trade, makes it incumbent upon catharsis to do the honorable thing and release the buyer, no matter what he thought the buyer "should've known."

One reason why auctions are bad for trade is they stipulate a FIXED cash value rather than a range of values, which makes Saxonpig's points all the more pertinent and the likelihood of agreement slim between parties.

catharsis
December 17, 2003, 04:14 PM
Here are the last few emails we sent each other:


> Excellent condition is relative to what "I" think. My auction has the
>benefit of pics and a detailed description of the gun. I don't know how you
>read the ad but several people knew well enough to email me "first" and
>discuss the trade. As far as I knew, you "BID" a MONEY" price and not a
>trade. HAd you contacted me previously and discussed it with me this
>situation may be completely different. The XX gun may very well be completely
>acceptable to me but the way you handled it was wrong IMHO. I was prepared
>to accept the "BID" of $450.00 since you "bid" money.


His response:


Your thought process baffles me. You should not post items you are willing
>to trade for and then try to back out after the fact. Your ad, as written,
>is totally misleading compared to what you are doing now. You make a lot of
>assumptions about accepting a "BID" as cash when your ad clearly states what
>are acceptable trades as well. It doesn't say to contact you about trades.
>It didn't say that you wouldn't accept a trade as payment. IMHO you are
>trying to mislead people with the way the ad is written. I would not have
>"BID" a cash price for this heavily altered gun. IMHO it's not worth $450
>cash which is why I was willing to trade my XX.



My final response:

Well I guess we are at an impasse. Gunbroker rules basically say if you "bid" cash you "pay" cash. Although I, as well others who have e-mailed me, understood my wording of the ad I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say you "could" have misunderstood it.

Here's how I look at it. Lets say I put an ad up for a professionally modified Vette: ie- nice after market wheels and tires, nice chromed bumpers and other odds and ends. It did happen to have a key scatch along the door but otherwise in great condition. I offer a cash price or what the blue book value is of the car, not even considering the really nice aftermarket mods and money I put into it. I also offer a "possible" trade for a Mustang or Camaro. I leave my address and phone number on the ad.

You call me up and only say:

"I have that much money, be at your house tommorrow".

I expect you to show up with the cash to "pay" for the vehicle. Well you not only show up without the cash, but show up at with a purple and pink Mustang with shag carpet seats and rusted out engine. You say:

"I said I "had" that much money but didn't say I was going to pay for the car with the money. Your ad also mentioned a trade for a Mustang and so here it is. I'd like your Vette now".


Most would have called and said:


"Wait, instead of cash I have this Mustang I'd like you to consider." I would then ask you about it and probably ask to see it. Hell, if you didn't call me and JUST "showed up" with a vehicle instead of cash, I would have "at least" think you'd let me take a look at it before I agree to a trade.



XXXX, I have to say, when you bid on this item I looked at all your feedback. I noticed ALOT of negative feedback and was actually a bit worried about how this deal would end up. My fears have been founded.

Since I have a bad taste in my mouth about this whole ordeal I think we can do it like this .

1) You PAY me what you bid in accordance with Gunbroker rules.

2) You back out of the deal and I send negative feedback.

3) I release you from the bid, and you do a fair and just thing, and pay my Gunbroker fee to place the ad, and I don't give negative feedback.

4) I release you from the deal, eat my loss, and we exchange no negative nor positive feedback.

Those are my options to you. I am now not willing to do any "deal" or "trade" with you.

Have a good day,

Bill Hook
December 17, 2003, 05:12 PM
Option #1 or #4.

Stop giving folks options, though, as the "option" to trade is what started this mess to begin with. My folks operated restaurants for many years and it became quite clear to me early on that too many options made many people uncomfortable, confused, and, often, angry. Options also made it difficult because it made preparations more complex/time-consuming for the vendor.

Mike Irwin
December 17, 2003, 05:17 PM
You ultimately, as the seller, have the right to refuse the transaction if you're not happy with it.

uglymofo
December 17, 2003, 06:12 PM
Damn, why do I bother to post?? Bill Hook speaks for me again. Bill, where do you shoot? I need a partner..;)

Stop with the options already. You're putting yourself in a situation very similiar to critiquing a student while teaching. If you see 7 things a student's doing wrong and you list them all, they'll either forget all but one or two of them, or blow you off as hostile or 'maliciously picky' (the old "he doesn't like me" syndrome). If you give them 2 pieces of advice in the correct tone of voice, their world is small, and they'll love you for seeing their errors.

In my opinion, you are the lead here. Reduce your choices and offer them--just tell him you've rethought this, and this is what you'd like to do--blah, blah, blah. Hopefully, you'll choose #4, because he's not gonna choose #1; he's already stated he didn't think your altered gun was worth $450. Tell him (if you agree with me) that you've reconsidered and #2 and 3 aren't right because in a fair proposal, you'd have some downside, too, and there is none for you in options 2 and 3. I'm sure he's got a bad taste in his mouth too. (As far as his already negative feedback goes, your reference to it is both a low blow and unrelated to this exchange; if you don't wanna deal with folks with any negative feedback, say so in your instructions to begin with--that would have given you a big 'out'.)

You can't "enforce" the auction's rules and make him pay; you set a condition that he could trade, and that changed this from an auction to a side barter in an auction. Even if the auction site were to side with you and ask him to pay cash, that wouldn't be right because he went into the exchange expecting to fulfill the transaction under a condition you set; he hasn't violated any of your conditions, since you didn't specify in the instructions that it was required that he discuss a tradable item with you. I know that's a pretty obtuse view and interpretation of a trade scenario, but they were your instructions, and his conduct has been within your instructions. I'd offer to mutually drop it by agreement, no feedback from either side. I know that with this path there's a monetary loss on your end, but I'd say, look in the mirror in the morning, head up and a little wiser. It's a small fee; be happy you weren't selling a house (people do trade property).

Bill Hook
December 17, 2003, 06:28 PM
Somewhere in Dixie, but not close enough to Oxford, MS.

uglymofo
December 17, 2003, 06:31 PM
Well, damn...I's just hopin'. Last gasp---any chance you shoot at Pascagoula?

Bill Hook
December 17, 2003, 06:34 PM
Not even close to the Gulf, unfortunately.

Guyon
December 17, 2003, 06:49 PM
As one poster said, Gunbroker doesn't allow trades. No mention of a trade should have been part of the ad. Like many have mentioned here, this option just confuses the issue. catharsis, even though this guy doesn't seem to know how trading really works, I think you bear some of the culpability here.

uglymofo
December 17, 2003, 06:56 PM
Bill,

Well, y'ever take a notion to shoot in MS holler at me. I'd be pleased to meet with ya. :)

Bill Hook
December 17, 2003, 06:58 PM
Will do. Thanks.

catharsis
December 17, 2003, 07:14 PM
From this last e-mail he sent it sounds like he's threatening me. I think I smell "fraud" from his direction
more than mine. I am almost positive he was going to scam me and probably send me a crap of a gun if I would have been naive enough to go through with it. At now point did he ever really disclose the condition of the gun through pics or text.



So what do ya'll think about this last e-mail I recieved from him:









>We are not at an impasse. You are so full of crap I can't believe it. You
>posted an ad stating EXACTLY what you were willing to trade for and YOU are
>now trying to back out of the deal. There is no mistaking what your ad says.
>You WILL receive negative feedback if you fail to complete the trade as
>described in your ad. Gunbroker rules say nothing about trade as payment
>which you posted. Bidding is a requirement to buy and I am "paying" with a
>trade as you have stated you were willing to do in your ad. If you think I'm
>wrong ask a contract law lawyer. If you say you will take a trade in an ad
>then you better be willing to back that up. You see, no one else thought
>your gun was worth the price you listed it for or else they would have bid.
>I pay for my auctions that I win and I am "paying" per your ad with a trade.
>You should stand behind your ad and complete the deal. Backing out of this
>deal will be reported to gunbroker and I will consider it to be an act of
>fraud.

redneck2
December 17, 2003, 07:20 PM
you set out the guidelines

did he meet them???

looks like after the fact you wanted to throw in some extra stipulations and guidelines

instead of trying to "figure things out" look at the original ad. If he met the guidelines, it's "done deal". If not it's "no deal"

Mebbe you're trying to cover yourself too much. If you don't want to trade, why did you say so up front???

My dad was a farmer. When I grew up, a man's word was gold. I saw deals that involved multi-thousands of dollars on a word and handshake. No papers, no contracts, no laywers.

Just sold a house about 6 months ago. Coulda saved three thousand dollars by going around the original realtor and using a different one. Wouldn't do it. My integrity is worth a lot more than three thousand to me.

Does it make me a hero??? No, just someone I can be comfortable with when I go to sleep at night.

For God's sake, what's the worst that will happen??? You get a gun that's worth a little less that you thought??? Then he's the cheat, not you.

Russ
December 17, 2003, 07:34 PM
I think he would have scammed you. Tell him to shove it where the sun don't shine and be done with it. Even if he was offering a decent gun in trade, he whines too much.

catharsis
December 17, 2003, 07:58 PM
This guy just wants to keep escalating it:



>What's to agree to? You clearly stated in your ad what you would trade for.
>If you didn't intend to do a trade then don't post it in your ads. I will be
>filing a internet fraud complaint against you for false advertising in
>addition to reporting you to GB. You will probably be removed from their
>service.

pytron
December 17, 2003, 08:19 PM
For all this guys talk, I think he's just trying to bully you into accepting his crappy trade. From his negative feedback, my guess would be that this isn't the first time he's tried to screw someone over.

I'd just refuse to sell with him, eat the cost, and leave him no feedback (unless of course he leaves you negative feedback). He can talk about fraud all he wants, when he clicked on "Bid" with a monetary amount, he agreed to pay in US dollars. Since he is not sticking up to his end, you don't have to stick up to yours.

I believe it's your right to refuse to sell to him anyway, regardless. If he had 300 negative feedbacks, would you want to sell to him. I'd just cite his crappy record as reason why you won't deal with him.

My 2 cents, worth all you paid for them.
-Pytron

LifeNRA
December 17, 2003, 08:36 PM
Sounds like he really wants your gun bad. You could go to www.fraud.org and file a complaint against him for not paying. Just forget about it like others have said. Or save all his emails and send them to the auction site asking them to look into harrasment. Maybe he will get kicked off. I just dont think I would let him bully me. I understood your auction. Someone bids a dollar amount that is what I would expect to be paid. He should know better and I think he does.

Bill Hook
December 17, 2003, 09:02 PM
Well, you did make it sound like you were threatening him when you mentioned negative feedback to begin with. I would void this transaction IMMEDIATELY and not leave any feedback on him if he didn't do the same on me. If he does, then I'd reciprocate in kind.

E-mail accounts and new IDs at GB, AA aren't too hard to do - I had to do this once when a guy didn't think I was the right kind of person to buy his gun, since I wanted to shoot it rather than hang it on the wall and he blocked me from bidding after I inquired about bore condition, etc. :rolleyes: Therefore, you can write this account off, if need be, since it doesn't sound like you have a reputation built up.

Stop responding to him and just let it happen as it will. Your issue is with GB now.

Mike Irwin
December 17, 2003, 09:22 PM
Hey Catharsis,

How about posting a link to your ad so we can review it ourselves?

WonderNine
December 17, 2003, 09:42 PM
catharsis,

The guy's a complete idiot. He's trying to defraud people on gunbroker. There's a ton of idiots like him on there. If you don't leave negative feedback on this ******bag I'll be disapointed with you! That's how they keep their behavior up....because of gunbroker's screwed up feedback system. Seems they only disable the accounts of the worst offenders. Like people that have 10 F's and 1 A.

The idiots with half negative feedback are bidding and selling away.

catharsis
December 17, 2003, 09:59 PM
Current Bid $450.00 No Reserve! Started at $450.00

Quantity 1 # of bids 1 Bid History

Time left Auction has ended

15 minute rule

Winning Bidder ******* A(91)



Oh and here's his feedbak:

Feedback Summary
Negative Feedback
(Low score is better)


Past 30 days: 1 out of 8 (12%)
Past 60 days: 4 out of 17 (24%)
Past 90 days: 6 out of 31 (19%)
Past 120 days: 10 out of 53 (19%)


Total Feedbacks: 91
Positive Feedbacks: 78
Neutral Feedbacks: 0
Negative Feedbacks:13
------------------------------------
Positive feedback 86%



"F: My wife says the $50 I refunded was blackmail to "take no further action or leave no negative feedback". We disagreed on the gun's condition. I'll never do business with this person again."



"F: This is the second item he bought from me using buy now on 10/22. As of 11/5 still no payment. Many excused but no money. Seem to be a pattern."


"F: Auction ended on 10/22/03, still no payment as of 11/05/03. Many excuses then I checked his feedback. Seems to be an on going problem"

"F: Non paying bidder, problem from the start. Used buy now then wanted a discount when I refused he "lost" his payment in the mail. Avoid this bidder."


"F: Beware of this bidder as you can see from his feedback he has lots of problems.Look at picture of auction trigger not broke!"


"F:Took 4 emails for response and 8 days to mail ck. Ck'ed his poor feedback and didn't want to deal with this BUM & retn ck. Deserves this F along with all his others. Gun sold to 2nd bidder"


"F: Pressured me into changing terms of sale on item he bought from me on another site. I refused, said I would NEVER do business with him again on ANYTHING! Recomend he be banned from GunBroker"


"F: Seller never completed auction sale, said that gun had sold locally and was not his fault. You are there, who should take responsibility? Me? He said he will post poor feedback on me in retaliation"


"F: BUYER IS THREATNING, CANNOT READ DESCRIPTION, VERY UNREASONABLE AND CHILDISH"


"F: He advertised the gun wrong. I had to drive 460 miles to appear in court to defend myself. And then he wanted to sell me another gun, so unstable an individual."











Here you go Mike: as it is written:

"willing to trade" in my opinion does not mean "will trade" for one of those guns no matter the condition.




This is a blued, slightly customized Series 70 Colt Combat Commander. I am not the original owner. There is slight cosmetic damage on the Right Hand side of the slide.

This Colt has an 80 prefix serial number and is guessed to be manufactured in the late 70's early 80's. The 80's prefix does not mean it ever was a series 80 gun. It never did have the firing pin safety and does NOT have the series 80 firing pin safety system.

Custom parts include: Black Micarta "thin grips" with silver Colt medallion inserts. King's extended slide stop, custom thumb safety, Ed Brown match extractor, and Micro ajustable rear sight. Both the Chip McCormick "long" trigger and original Colt "short" trigger will be included as will the original 7 round Colt magazine. Note: the Colt magazine does not function well and probably needs a new mag. spring. With the 200 - 300 factory FMJ rounds I personally put in the pistol, I used my Wilson Combat 7 round mags without a hiccup.

Buyer will pay shipping and provide signed copy of FFL information. I request payment be made by money order or other certified funds. Please no personal checks. ****willing to trade for one of the following 1)Glock 30 or 19 2)HK USP compact 9,40,45 3)Browning/FN HighPower 9mm 4)CZ 75 Single or Double action 5)Sig 220 or 239 6)Berreta 92FS or Vertec

WonderNine
December 17, 2003, 10:04 PM
Looking at the feedback, the guy's an idiot.

Anyone with less than 95% A+'s = idiot in my opinion and I don't bid on their auctions. Sure, stuff happens, but if someone is enough of an ??? to get several people leaving bad feedback on them then they have no business being on gunbroker.

WonderNine
December 17, 2003, 10:10 PM
I think this says it all.

"F: BUYER IS THREATNING, CANNOT READ DESCRIPTION, VERY UNREASONABLE AND CHILDISH"

I think you should leave feedback mentioning that you had the exact same experience with him as this guy did.

And with gunbroker's screwed up feedback system, he's got all those F's and still has an "A" :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Mal H
December 17, 2003, 10:11 PM
catharsis - Why all the secrecy and blanked out names? It was a public auction.

http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=14239730


Note this caveat from the operators of GunBroker: Bids are not to be placed lightly - you must make sure that you have resolved any questions or issues with the seller before your bid is placed.The bidder did not resolve the issue of whether or not his trade would be acceptable. No right thinking person would reasonably expect you to accept a trade blindly. You should make a preemptive strike and send a message to the GB staff explaining that you cannot complete the deal and give the reasons.

WonderNine
December 17, 2003, 10:13 PM
OMG that guy's a diptwat.

He's bid on stuff of mine before. I looked at his feedback and was glad he wasn't the high bidder when all was done.

catharsis
December 17, 2003, 10:17 PM
Hey Mal, just trying to be civil and not cause an even bigger fuss. I figured no need to post names.

catharsis
December 17, 2003, 10:44 PM
Asper GB rules and regs:




1. Bidding. Placing a bid on an item is an irrevocable offer to buy the item(s) at the price in the bid, provided the bid is a winning bid at the time of the close of the auction. A winning bid is a bid that is the highest bid on an item, or in the event of a tie, the bid placed chronologically earliest. In the case of a reserve price auction a bid is only a winning bid if it meets or exceeds the reserve price on the item. In the case of a Dutch auction there may be more than one winning bid depending on the quantity of items available and the number of bids placed.
Placing a bid constitutes entering into a binding legal agreement with the seller to purchase the item(s) at the winning bid price and in accordance with the terms stated in the item listing and the rules of this site. You must resolve any questions about the item by contacting the seller of the item prior to placing a bid. Do not place a bid until you are sure that you understand what you are bidding on and, if necessary, have received a response from the seller of the item regarding any questions you may have.

Once a bid is placed it may not be cancelled or retracted without the permission of the seller. The seller is not obligated to grant permission to retract or cancel a bid, and it is not the duty of this auction site to request permission from the seller for a bid retraction or cancellation. Any bid cancellation must be worked out between buyer and seller without assistance from the auction site.








5. 'Side Deals' / Non-Winning Bidders. Any transaction made between a non-winning bidder and a seller is a 'side deal' and is outside the scope of this auction site and its rules. Our Privacy Policy prohibits us from providing contact information for users involved in a 'side deal'. Buyers and sellers involved in a 'side deal' cannot post feedback and cannot use the auction site's problem resolution tools. Our Fraud Insurance does not cover 'side deals'. We provide absolutely no assistance of any kind for buyers and sellers involved in a 'side deal' in any way in the event of problems.

Mike Irwin
December 17, 2003, 10:59 PM
Even more telling is if you look at the feedbacks left on those people who have left negative feedback on this guy.

Bill Hook
December 18, 2003, 12:00 AM
Okay catharsis, while I think trying to trade is a bad idea in an auction, it sounds as though you have a real loser there, so leave all the negative feedback you want. However, I'd only do so if he did the same to me, since it is a 2-way street.

nico
December 18, 2003, 12:14 AM
I agree with bill. I'd void the auction and not post any feedback unless he does first. If he does, give him negative feedback and try to get in contact with the gunbroker people to have the issue resolved (they can remove negative feedback if it's bs right?)

WonderNine
December 18, 2003, 12:37 AM
nico, they aren't going to edit anyone's feedback unless it contains profanity or personal info according to the rules.

He's probably had more than twice as many people not leave bad feedback over dealings with him over fear of retaliation. It seems like in transactions I watch, feedback is rarely left by anyone. A month after an auction has ended and nobody gave anybody feedback. Maybe one in 5 deals. This type of guy is the reason why auction sites get a bad rep.

I used to never have people fail to give me feedback, but recently I've had to remind almost every person I've dealt with to do so and sometimes then they don't either.

Randy63
December 18, 2003, 09:19 AM
catharsis
I spend quite a bit of time searching the auction sites. I also sell guns to upgrade my collection from time to time.

A couple of weeks ago I was just clicking around and saw bnormal2's feedback. I immediately put him on my blocked bidders list. I would not want this guy bidding on anything I was auctioning. It's obvious this guy is a first class A-Hole. You'd have to have rocks in your head to proceed to deal with this goof.

So what if he leaves you a negative. Consider the source.

Randy

Mike Irwin
December 18, 2003, 10:45 AM
It would be nice if you could, as a blanket action, block any potential bidders who have a feedback satisfaction rating of under X percent, with you choosing the number.

WonderNine
December 18, 2003, 01:43 PM
It would be nice if you could, as a blanket action, block any potential bidders who have a feedback satisfaction rating of under X percent, with you choosing the number.

I'm going to send Gunbroker support an email suggesting they add that very feature.

You know what, I actually don't have anyone on my blocked bidders list, but I think it's time to start doing that. I forgot all about that feature.

Mike Irwin
December 18, 2003, 01:53 PM
I've never put up anything for sale on any of the auction sites.

I'm strictly a consumer. :)

catharsis
December 18, 2003, 03:30 PM
Wondernine---

Problem with automatically blocking bidders with X% is that you never know if someone like bnormal is bringing the percentage down. I noticed that alot of the guys that had perfect score all of the sudden dropped into the low 90's once they recieved an "F" from bnormal.

For instance, me, I would have a failing grade of 50% if bnormal sends me negative feedback. I had one good sale and one go bad. It's not "completely" fair to judge based on percentage. I like the idea of looking at feedback, then comparing it on the overall record of the bidder/buyer, and then even going as far as checking out the feedback on the guys who gave bad feedback like what we did above.


No method is failproof and even the best buyers/sellers can have auctions go bad for whatever reason. I do believe that "overall" checking out and researching the people you deal with is the most fair way.

I did not take that advice and I also was not careful enough to anticipate people like bnormal. I will indeed not stray from the rules next time, or at the very least, choose my words better to not let even the biggest scammer be able to twist them to his "supposed" advantage.

WonderNine
December 18, 2003, 03:53 PM
I've never put up anything for sale on any of the auction sites.

I'm strictly a consumer.

Don't you ever have stuff you get tired of, or don't want anymore? Or need money? :D

Randy63
December 18, 2003, 06:06 PM
Originally posted by catharsis:
Problem with automatically blocking bidders with X% is that you never know if someone like bnormal is bringing the percentage down. I noticed that alot of the guys that had perfect score all of the sudden dropped into the low 90's once they recieved an "F" from bnormal.

For instance, me, I would have a failing grade of 50% if bnormal sends me negative feedback. I had one good sale and one go bad. It's not "completely" fair to judge based on percentage. I like the idea of looking at feedback, then comparing it on the overall record of the bidder/buyer, and then even going as far as checking out the feedback on the guys who gave bad feedback like what we did above.

I never block a bidder just because of a percentage of feedback. It's the nature of the feedback I take into account. I wouldn't automatically block you because you have one A+ and (potentially) one F. I would take the time to check the feedback of the guy who gave you the F. It would be easy for to see that an F from bnormal2 doesn't carry any weight (for me at least). An F from a first rate seller/buyer on Gun Broker would give me pause though.

Once in a while I throw an S&W revolver on Gun Broker. If you are so inclined feel free to bid on it!:) I'd also have no problem bidding on a nice pre war S&W you might offer for sale!

Randy

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