[yy]

How did the 1911 evolve into the highly modified collector's item of today? One gets the impression from reading the posts on THR that a 1911 out of the box must go through modifications costing more than its retail price before it warrents a spot in the collection?

I mean, don't we like 1911's for their reliability/"stopping" power?

[Standing Wolf]

The model 1911 is one of the last guns I'd ever choose for reliability. I happen to have a very reliable Kimber first series, but most of the others I've owned and shot and known of have been veritable paragons of unreliability.

[dukeofurl]

There's pros and cons to every gun

The 1911 is both the gold standard and headache - depending on who you may talk to.

In my Kimber, the series 2 safety wasnt the best perforning with me, the extractor was not tuned right, and it resulted in complete and utter insanity with me.

However - some people swear by their 1911's because they shoot them exceptionally well.

I happen to be a glock guy. To each their own.

[Delmar]

I do own my 1911's for their stopping power and reliability. I have 4 Colts, all series 80, all blued and ranging from a Trophy Match to a 1991A1 Compact (officer model).
The least reliable was the Trophy Match, and that is because I assumed you could run anything through it. You can, and the pistol dosen't seem to mind, but the Elliason rear sight pin does. I replaced it with a solid pin and will not run anything stronger than factory ammo through it.
The Government model, Combat Commander and the Compact seem to digest everything I feed it. No failures to feed or eject except with some questionable reloads. The Government model is right at 100,000 rounds with only spring changes and a barrel bushing.

[444]

Well..... This has been covered many times on this board, but I own 3-4 1911s that have been completely reliable right out of the box. I have shot all of them extensively including IPSC, IDPA, formal training classes along with a heck of a lot of plinking, target shooting, hunting etc. The one that I have shot the most was absolutely bone stock including the original stocks until recently when I replaced the stocks. Now this doesn't mean that over the years I haven't worn out parts: springs, extractors, ejectors etc. There was a time when I was fired a couple thousand rounds a month in practice when I was heavily into action pistol shooting. I wore out parts just like any other mechanical device that is being heavily used.
I have owned other 1911s that I no longer have for one reason or another, but all were reliable. I did get one lemon out of them all: A Springfield Armory "loaded". It too was reliable although it wasn't accurate. I sent it to Clark's. Now it is super accurate but it is only reliable for about 100 rounds due to the very close tolorances since it had the accuracy job.

So, I don't agree with the statements in your post based on my experience which isn't the most extensive, but certainly not just wild speculation.

[Willard]

When I was 21 and broke I bought an Essex framed GI parts .45, and it ran and ran and ran. in fact, it still runs.

I also have a Norinco .45, box stock, and it runs just fine, too, as does my Night Officer Colt.

If folks spend as much on a .45 as they do a H&K or Sig they'll get just as reliable a weapon.

Now a $200 FedOrd? Maybe hit or miss.

[BigG]

yy: I think there is a lot of hyperbole on the internet and folks who complain do so loudly and often. That said, there are a veritable smorgasbord of aftermarket 1911 parts and folks seem to buy them. shrug.

I just read a story of a guy who was wondering what was wrong with his new name brand 1911 type. As his tale unwound it turned out he had all sorts of aftermarket parts in the pistol, to include slidestop, magazines, and recoil springs. What is wrong, imho, is he shouldn't have tried to fix something that wasn't broke. :(

[Archie]

In the original government issue or commercial configuration, the old Colts never had a problem working. Never.

The first "reliability" issue was invented in the minds of people who did not use them, did not know much about them and did not care about them. The revolver users. Usually city cops who hadn't any experience with anything other than their duty weapon.

(Even Bill Jordan and Elmer Keith owned, used and liked them, although they wouldn't ever admit it in print.)

The second "reliability" issue came in the 50s and 60s resulting from "match" guns. 1911s with tightened tolerances, shooting light loaded wadcutter ammunition would sometimes malfunction in a match. These were not duty guns, but the problem was ballyhooed out of proportion by the revolver only crowd. By the way, my Jim Clark wadcutter gun just doesn't malfunction until I've run over one hundred rounds without cleaning; and these were the 'dirty burning' loads. With the bullseye loads, I've gone several hundred rounds without cleaning. Bob Chow guns seem to keep chugging along.

Then came the "Combat League" modifications. The good examples by Armand Swenson and Austin Buelert and Tim LaFrance and others of that ilk would work without much comment. But there were many other makers who were not as meticulous. Some of those guns were modified wrong, and would be touchy. Or the victim of a poor magazine.

The "reliability" problem has always been a modification problem. I've seen poorly made guns, copies of the 1911 design that were "improved" and thereby lessened at the factory. Still, I have several 1911s in my inventory right now. They all run without a hitch with the proper ammo. (My handloaded wadcutter loads for the Clark gun; hardball or Federal Hydra-shok for the duty guns.)

It is amazing that the 1911 has been so modified and still works at all, let alone passably well.

I've shot and watched other people shoot 1911s for over thirty five years now. They work very well for those who pay attention. Sort of like manual transmissions and lace up shoes.

[Ky Larry]

Amen, BigG. Most of the complaints about the 1911 are caused by people trying to"fix and/or improve" the pistol. They take their pistol to a local "gunsmith" (gun butcher) or try to work on it themselves. Or they try to add after market parts. When the pistol doesn't work they blame the pistol instead of their own stupidity.

yy, remenber that the stuff you read here is the same stuff you hear at the gun shop or shooting range. Just because somebody says something doesn't make it true. The world is full of gunstore commandos. In America, every bozo has an equal right to be full of bull s***, me included.

[BigG]

Ky Larry, or as WildAlaska always says, "Your opinion is as irrelevant as mine." :D

[Sunray]

"...modifications costing more than its retail price before it warrents(sic) a spot in the collection?..." What? Are you talking about a vintage 1911 that is highly collectable or a current production 1911A1 Colt Government model that isn't? Any aftermarket "modification" will ruin any collector value in a heart beat. Then its only value is as a shooter whose value will go up but nowhere near as fast or as much as a collector grade 1911.
My Colt Government 1911A1 and some series, 70 I think, works just fine. Shoots a one hole group, if I do my part, at ISU range. It's never once given me any grief that I didn't cause. So whoever told you they aren't reliable is confused or has never owned one.

[Sean Smith]

I've owned 3 stock Colt 1911s that were reliable (2 old Delta Elites & 1 new 01991). They objectively worked as well or better than any trendy modern design I've owned has. That includes Glocks and Sigs, by the way.

I've also owned 2 customized Colt 1911s that were reliable (the 2 old Delta Elites later in life :D ). Lots of people have slack-jawed retards at the local strip mall dremel-rape their guns, then wonder why they don't work and blame it on the design. Let's just say that I didn't, and the results spoke for themselves. Loudly. ;)

Bottom line is, I like the 1911 design because for me it makes a better practical weapon.

[Majic]

The original design fed it's recommended ammo was and still is as reliable as any other brand on the market today. The pistol just readily lend itself to customization. When you modify anything beyond the scope of it's design you can expect problems. If all the cool factors where left out and people shot the original design then there most likely have never been a discussion like this today.
The 1911 was designed as a combat pistol, not a match pistol. Today people seem to want it to perform both jobs with absolutely no problems. That's a tough request of any product, to perform 2 different duties and produce excellent results in both fields.

[dsk]

The 1911 design itself is extremely durable and reliable. It's not John Browning's fault that so many 1911 makers cut corners these days. The reason why so many new 1911's don't work out of the box is because they're shipped to us half-finished. It's now up to the end user to finish-profile the feed ramp, adjust the extractor, secure the plunger tube and polish out the tooling marks.

[BigG]

Dana, sort of a beta version, huh? :D

In all fairness, I have bought a trunkload of Colt's Pat FA Mfg Co hardware and have never experienced the half-finished syndrome. All weapons and mags work as designed, Sir! The other marques I'm not willing to take a chance on but I'm a bit of a purist in the area of horse pistols. :cool:

[Delmar]

Don't know that I would do any modifications to an original 1911, but some of the mods done in "horseyland" Colt I find to make a good shooter a little more versatile. The larger, teardrop shaped thumb safety I do like as it makes wiping the thing on and off easier, without being too large.
I'm in favor of the notched barrel feed ramp. I like shooting lead SWC's and my early series 80 was not always 100% reliable with them, especially the 155 grain. And yes, the dremel tool came out with some of the eraser bits to polish the feed ramp on the frame-not "dremel raped", but polished only with no angle change at all. Problem solved. The notch in the new barrels seem to work with all bullet shapes.
The taller sights help my aging eyes stay competitive with the young whipper-snappers without tearing my holster up, and the only thing non-stock is a set of wraparound Pach signature grips.
I really like the trigger press on my GCT, and its the smoothest I have ever had on a stock Colt. The sear on my Government models has that sprue mark right in the center of the working surface, while the GCT is notched-don't know if that has anything to do with how it feels, but I am quite tempted to order some for my other pistols. My oldest series 80 also had some rough edges on the firin pin safety levers, so I took a fine toothed file and smoothed them out. It's the only one which came like that, with the rest of them just fine as is.

[yy]

I want to thank you all for the clarification. Some of you are just impressive. Thank you very much.