Match Grade Accuracy From a Service Pistol?


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schmeky
October 20, 2010, 10:23 PM
Yep. Attached is a recent test of the CZ-75 in 9mm. Note there are several groups that are 2" or less, with a best of 1.250", @ 25 yards.

The amazing thing is you can still find NIB or LNIB CZ-75's significantly less than $500.00 (they're on Gunbroker).

Wow. :what:

http://www.gunblast.com/CZ-75.htm

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bds
October 20, 2010, 10:46 PM
It was love at first grip/shot with the CZ75 for me.

Great "metal" pistols! :D

Big Bill
October 21, 2010, 12:34 AM
Here's my 10 yard target today using 10 (remanufactured) FMJ 115 gr rounds from my CZ 75BD. There are four holes in the orange center... :D

http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/teagueh/Guns/CZ10yt.jpg

You've seen the target. Here's the gun...

http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/teagueh/Guns/CZ_75_BD.png

piece of meat
October 21, 2010, 12:48 AM
i dont get why these arent more popular, they typically cost less than glock/xd/m&p's, are at least as reliable as those, have ergonomics that blow them all away, and have the rock solid tight fit and accuracy of a $2000 1911.

Big Bill
October 21, 2010, 12:59 AM
SSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! Don't tell anyone. It'll drive the price up.

Isher
October 21, 2010, 01:05 AM
To: Piece of Meat

Sir -

In future posts, please limit your miserable whining to the "CZ Pistol Dislikes" thread.

Very Truly Yrs.

Isher

schmeky
October 21, 2010, 09:14 AM
This gun backs up the recent Gunblast review, my CZ Custom Shop SP-01, so it has an outstanding SA trigger. Shortly after I bought it, I practiced, practiced, practiced, with it, dry fired a lot and got familiar with it.

Then one day, I managed this one-holer. That was all it took. I have never shot any semi as well as this one so quickly. Needless to say, this is a keeper.


http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/1999/img0143.jpg

hardluk1
October 21, 2010, 12:29 PM
I have a Witness Match with a 9mm upper on at the time and a STI guy shot'n a 38 super next to me at the range was check'n it out as we were reloading. I asked him if he wanted to try it . After a full mag at his target he said he was superized that it shot as well or better than his STI did. Told him the price , said he look in to buy'n one. The CZ style guns just flatly do shoot well. But some are just plane heavy pistols.

JohnBT
October 21, 2010, 06:09 PM
Here's the problem I had with that first CZ, my first 9mm. It was a -75B Military model I got about 10 years ago for $340 and it came with 2 15-rd mags.

That led to a new BHP.

Then I bought a Rohrbaugh.

Then I bought a Sig X-5 TAC TB.


And I still prefer the .45 to the 9mm.

Oh well.

schmeky
October 21, 2010, 09:53 PM
And I still prefer the .45 to the 9mm

So do I. Probably 85% of my shooting in the past 2 years has been .45 ACP. I mainly shoot a CZ-97, my Les Baer, Kimber, and Norinco. When I do shoot a 9, it's a CZ though.

All my CZ's have been massaged with the competition hammer, upgraded sights, and typically grips.

ckone
October 21, 2010, 11:08 PM
I haven't had it long, but my DIY trigger-jobed home-gunsmithed SP-01 shooting cheap wallymart Federal Champion has flat out embarrassed my Wilson CQB shooting $$$ Black Hills stuff (bested my buddies Ed Brown too making it look pretty darn average in the process as it a had a few bobbles to the CZ's none, his hands, not mine).

First 50 rounds (before trigger job and better sights, or even really being used to it), groups at 15 yards, each of the headshots were from the draw at 25 yards out-running a 3 second par time:
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f307/ckarp007/90e762fb.jpg

I've been shooting the crap out of it and I'm up to about 2100rds without so much as a hiccup, didn't even clean it until after the first 1100 (it must think it's a Glock 17 which is just fine by me). These guns are so freaking good for the money it's scary.
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f307/ckarp007/de90a5b0.jpg

PO2Hammer
October 22, 2010, 06:36 PM
Nice shooting schmeky!

hardluk1
October 22, 2010, 07:04 PM
The one thing the cz has over the witness is they have a smaller grip as they can't shoot 10mm. I have to rotate to hit the mag release or use my left hand, Need longer fingers. Oh well be both sure do shoot.

schmeky
October 22, 2010, 07:15 PM
PO2Hammer,

Even a blind squirrel can find a nut every now and then :D Definitely a best of, not typical at all for me.

ckone,

You talkin' about those red dots? If you are, man that's more than impressive shooting, that's awesome.

Strahley
October 22, 2010, 07:15 PM
I can't get over how small the slides are. I can't get a good grip on them when slingshotting

PabloJ
October 22, 2010, 11:05 PM
I used to own one of those. Made in Czechoslovakia it came in flat box with orange front cleaning rod, two magazines, manual and test target. Although the gun did not fit my medium sized hand well it shot pretty good but not as well as that link claims. The fit, finish and bluing was superior to FN P-35 made at the same time (ca. 1979). The only militaryish auto that shot that well was monster sized H&K .45Auto that came in big camo cordura case. Using Federal pistol patch it would shoot right along my Freedom Arms 83.
I found that my $150 9x19 Tokarev which fits my hand particularly well does not shoot as well as the H&K or the Freedom Arms, but it does turn in performance on par with CZ I used to own.

ckone
October 23, 2010, 11:25 PM
PO2Hammer,

Even a blind squirrel can find a nut every now and then :D Definitely a best of, not typical at all for me.

ckone,

You talkin' about those red dots? If you are, man that's more than impressive shooting, that's awesome.
The red dots are slow-fire 5-shot groups at 15 yards, if that's what you meant, thanks! ...but to me what's really impressive is the 25 yard head-shots off the draw while having the 3-second par time to outrun, usually when I do that drill it gets pretty ugly.
I'm a long-time Glock 17/34 die-hard with thosands of rounds through those, I came to the SP-01 almost by accident after looking long and hard at every single 9mm 1911 available out there, while many of them were good, none of them were even half as reliable as what I was used to with the Glocks... Just when I was about to say "forget it" a really good IPSC shooter I know recommended I take a look at a Shadow or an SP-01, and by chance I came across a like new SP-01 while hitting the range and played with it for a few, researched it and ended up going back the next day and traded a really good G17 and a little loot for it... After some respringing and a DIY trigger job based off info out there, these guns are f'ing awesome!

DonRon
October 23, 2010, 11:30 PM
Here is a stock out of the box Glock 23 compact hitting a target 230 yards away.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFd3kF6LHz4

Pete D.
October 24, 2010, 07:29 AM
Match grade accuracy in a Bullseye gun is ten shots into the Xring (1.6" in diameter) at 50 yards.
Pete

ckone
October 24, 2010, 12:23 PM
Match grade accuracy in a Bullseye gun is ten shots into the Xring (1.6" in diameter) at 50 yards.
Pete
Yeah, from a machine rest after testing a boatload of loads to find the ammo that will deliver that (and it often has as much or more to do with the ammo).

That said, I don't think that's what the OP was really talking about anyway... Think what we're talking about here is that these guns are service/duty pistols that are mass-produced costing between only $500-900 dollars that deliver accuracy results on par with custom guns sold as "match-grade" that are built one at a time and usually go for upwards of $3k or so.

I don't want to get to a "my brand is better than your brand" rant as this thread is more about sharing the info on how good these guns are over having a pissing contest. Here's the deal: my SP-01 came off an assembly line and has delivered sub-1.5" groups at 75 meters (82ft, 7ft further than 25 yards) off-hand shooting cheap crap factory ammo... Off a machine rest who knows? Think 1" or less at 25 yards is a given, with the right ammo and with the right specimen, who knows, a 1.5" group at 50 yards could be a real possibility. Now, the reason that is impressive and of note is that for the prices of either of the 2 guns I can think of off the top of my head that offer an accuracy guarantee in that neighborhood, Wilson's 1" @ 25yrds and Baer's 1.5" @ 50yrds (both .45acp's mind you), you could literally buy between 5-8+ of these "service models" which would likely run more reliably due to their looser tolerances.

That's pretty awesome for $500-900.

schmeky
October 24, 2010, 12:57 PM
ckone,

Agreed and well stated. I understand what "match" grade accuracy is. I was somewhat surprised to see the results obtained my Jeff Quin at Gunblast. Obviously he is an accomplished shooter as well.

With better sights and some trigger work, it would not be unrealistic to see an improvement in accuracy with the CZ-75 he tested.

As an aside, I have posted this pic on numerous ocassions. This is my modified CZ-97 in .45. It outshoots everything I own as far as accuracy is concerned, even my Les Baer 1911. It has generated some lively conversations at my local indoor shooting range on several ocassions. I undersand why the CZ design is so widely copied worldwide. These groups were shot at 25 yards from a sandbag rest.
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/2856/norincoslide053.jpg

DonRon
October 24, 2010, 12:58 PM
I got a $100.00, 20 year old, Mil Surplus VZ 82 that will hang with any custom 1911 or any target pistol any day of the week and twice on Sundays in the right hands.

You guys need to shoot more and rag chew less in my opinion. As my daddy said "Just ain't no reason to MIT everything in life".

Pete D.
October 24, 2010, 04:34 PM
Yeah, from a machine rest after testing a boatload of loads to find the ammo that will deliver that (and it often has as much or more to do with the ammo).


Not so.
Some day do yourself a favor and take a trip to West Point. Go to their pistol shooting facility. Walk in the front door and through the foyer on the left hand wall just before you turn toward the locker rooms is a framed target - 50 yard Slow Fire. It has ten .45 Cal bullet holes, all in the X-ring, shot outdoors, one hand unsupported. Leg match. Ball ammo.
That is match grade accuracy - no machine involved.
I agree, though that most testing is done with a Ransom Rest. In any case, the gun in question in this thread is a good shooter.
my SP-01 came off an assembly line and has delivered sub-1.5" groups at 75 meters (82ft, 7ft further than 25 yards) off-hand shooting cheap crap factory ammo... Off a machine rest who knows? Think 1" or less at 25 yards is a given, with the right ammo and with the right specimen, who knows, a 1.5" group at 50 yards could be a real possibility. Now, the reason that is impressive and of note is that for the prices of either of the 2 guns I can think of off the top of my head that offer an accuracy guarantee in that neighborhood, Wilson's 1" @ 25yrds and Baer's 1.5" @ 50yrds (both .45acp's mind you), you could literally buy between 5-8+ of these "service models" which would likely run more reliably due to their looser tolerances.

A very good shooter......and I do appreciate the idea that one does not have to spend $3k to get a fine shooting gun.
Pete

Walkalong
October 24, 2010, 06:26 PM
And I still prefer the .45 to the 9mm.

CZ has you covered there as well. The CZ 97 (http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=128495&d=1286119941).

And now schmeky is killing me [again] with pics of his SP01. Thank goodness it has that ugly rail, or I would just have to have one. :)

Hmmm, that rail isn't tooo ugly. :p

bds
October 24, 2010, 07:32 PM
Not quite there as schmeky's 25 yards shot groups, but my 4.5" M&P45 with a trigger job is now producing consistent 1.5"-2.0" 5 shot groups at 20 yards.

Time to practice using the same target at 25 yards - schmeky, you are my inspiration!

50 yard Slow Fire. It has ten .45 Cal bullet holes, all in the X-ring, shot outdoors, one hand unsupported.
Now, that is some good shooting. I do all of my shot group testing offhand with two hand grip. We do setup one hand strong/weak hand targets at 5-10 yards for our USPSA match stages, but 50 yards, my my. :eek:

schmeky
October 24, 2010, 07:49 PM
Walkalong,

You can't see that admittedly ugly rail when you're shooting the SP-01 :o


bds,

I'm not a good shot, just persistent.

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