.460 Rowland


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John Wayne
October 23, 2010, 12:43 AM
Just curious to see whether or not anyone here had experience with this cartridge. I am looking for a versatile handgun, and the .460 Rowland appeals to me because I don't have to sacrifice capacity or shootability.

I handload, but I'm concerned about brass availability in the future. What kind of load data exists for the .460?

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dmazur
October 23, 2010, 06:21 AM
Here's some load data from Accurate Powder -

http://www.accuratepowder.com/data/PerCaliber2Guide/Handgun/Standarddata/45Cal(11.5mm)/460%20Rowland%20Handgun%20Cal%20page%20151.pdf

And here's some Hodgdon load data I found -

http://www.clarkcustomguns.com/PDF/HodgdonPowder460data.pdf

One of the better articles I've read about the .460 Rowland is the 2-part series that appeared in "Real Guns" -

http://www.realguns.com/archives/106.htm

http://www.realguns.com/archives/107.htm

The above covers the various concerns about cartridge availability and which frames are/are not suitable for the Clark Custom Guns conversion.

The latest information is available on the Clark Custom Guns site -

http://www.clarkcustomguns.com/rowland.htm

For example, they are no longer offering the conversion for Commanders. (I was considering a .460 Rowland conversion for one of my Commanders, but I waited too long. I'm guessing the .460 Rowland is "pushing things" for a standard frame, and perhaps there were too many problems with the Commander.)

So, I don't have any experience with the .460 Rowland, but I spent quite a bit of time researching it. Hopefully the above answered some of your questions.

Venado
October 23, 2010, 09:34 PM
If I were you, I would look into the .45 super. Find recomendations on how to build the gun up. Contrary to popular opinion, the .460 Rowland, and .45 super case is no stronger than a regular .45 acp case.

John Wayne
October 24, 2010, 11:10 PM
I know the .460 Rowland case isn't stronger, but I like the fact that it won't chamber in a .45 ACP barrel. I know it's not *technically* any safer but I don't want to load .45 Super for the same reason I don't load .38 SPL cases to .357 Mag levels.

I was considering going the Springfield XD route. It seems like you only get a conversion barrel and stronger spring with the .460 kit though, and it's kind of pricy. Do barrel mfrs. make custom runs of barrels?

I have heard several reports saying that recoil is not that bad with the 1911 version and the giant compensator...the XD conversion, by comparison, has only a small 2-port compensator. I would probably not be loading to the full potential of the .460, but more than standard .45 ACP--say 200 gr. @ 1200 fps or so.

Venado
October 26, 2010, 12:58 PM
You can either have your xd barrel reamed to 460 Rowland specs., or you can get the replacement 460 rowland barrel. Either will work. Yes the xd will have much more recoil than a heavier 1911 conversion. I have shot 185 gr. out of my xd going over 1700 f.p.s., but instead of reaming to a 460 Rowland, I freebored the barrel 1/2", reducing pressure. I do have the reamer for the Rowland, but have not seen it necessary to use it.

dtsdave
October 26, 2010, 02:11 PM
I have the Clark Custom conversion for a 1911. It is fun and works well. Recoil is not too bad but chasing down brass sucks. Brass is also sort of scarce right now. The only vendor with any in stock was Clark Custon guns last month. That may have changed now but I bought 200 just in case.

It sure gets some raised eyebrows at the range when you shoot it.

DasFriek
October 26, 2010, 03:02 PM
From: http://460rowland.com/do-you-make-kits-for-a-shorter-barrel-length/

Guess how fast i trade in my XD SC .40 in on a G30?

I love the .460 round but do not want a 5″ barrel. I was looking at a 3″ or 4″ Kimber Crimson Trace model. Do you make kits for
the shorter barrel length?
—Tod

In the past, we have made some experimental shorter barreled guns, but do not currently offer kits to fit the short Kimber. I am considering offering conversions for the shorter XD and for the Glock model 30.
—Johnny Rowland

John Wayne
October 29, 2010, 04:34 PM
DasFriek, I actually just got rid of a Glock 30. I prefer the XD platform myself, even if they do tend to be a bit larger than their Austrian counterparts.

odoh
January 6, 2011, 02:39 PM
. . . . . . Contrary to popular opinion, the .460 Rowland, and .45 super case is no stronger than a regular .45 acp case.

My take on the question of the 460 Rowland brass strength was that head/web structure appeared to be very similar to that of the 45ACP. However, that is only part of the equation. I'd think the mat'l composition, hardening treatment would have a bearing. I have not seen any published detailed analysis/study ~ just someone slicing both in two and saying they appear to be similar, of course I could be wrong. As I recall the writer who did the comparison even effectively commented it wasn't the complete story nor was his article meant to be.

I've the Clark kit on my kimber and it plants the brass neatly near my right foot. I've not experienced that w/any other 1911 type. IIRC Tappin noted the same characteristic in his test report. Gotta say it is one of my most fun shooting gun. Seemingly laser beam like trajectory w/< moderate, stable recoil. Stocked up on the brass. In my mind it is an excellent flat packing hunting piece and mine hosts a Burris Fastfire II so far w/o a problem. Of course as always YMMV ~

Buck Snort
January 6, 2011, 03:04 PM
I actually bought the kit for my Wilson Combat CQB and could never get the 24LB spring to go into the gun so now it sits in my safe. Make me an offer!

SuperNaut
January 6, 2011, 03:55 PM
$150

odoh
January 6, 2011, 08:42 PM
I actually bought the kit for my Wilson Combat CQB and could never get the 24LB spring to go into the gun so now it sits in my safe. Make me an offer!
What finish is it? Stainless? I'm thinking 5"? Not familiar w/the Wilson's ~ would it work on a Colt or Kimber or does it have a ramped barrel?

John Wayne
January 11, 2011, 11:45 AM
Got an XD 45 Compact due to Springfield's awesome promotion (3 free mags + mag carrier for free, total of 5 mags and 2 mag pouches).

Anyone know if the XD 45 full size / tactical models use barrels with the same locking lugs as the compact (4") model? The barrel would look a little goofy sticking out the front of the slide, but hey, if it works, why not?

45crittergitter
January 22, 2011, 09:45 PM
Might want to read up on the case strength issue, straight from the originator:

http://www.acecustom45s.com/45super.htm


I agree with another poster that if it's versatility you want, the .45 Super is probably a better choice, as they typically function with SAAMI spec .45 ACP ammo also.

TG13
January 23, 2011, 08:14 AM
the stock XD45 will fire .45 Super with no modifications..

John Wayne
January 24, 2011, 08:18 PM
Might want to read up on the case strength issue, straight from the originator:

http://www.acecustom45s.com/45super.htm

That is an interesting read, but I found it to be inconclusive as far as case strength is concerned...it said .451 Detonics Mag was the original parent case for the .45 Super but that that was no longer true. Are there any case strength problems inherent to the .460 Rowland? I'd imagine it would have to be pretty stout as well.

the stock XD45 will fire .45 Super with no modifications..

I'm sure it will; the question is just for how long! Do you have a reputable source for that claim? I know a few manufacturers have rated their .45 ACP pistols for .45 Super (HK comes to mind) but the vast majority do not.

waldron
January 24, 2011, 09:57 PM
I just got the 460 Rowland kit from Clark about three weeks ago. Works just fine. No problems of any kind.

I have used the load data found on Real Guns[I] and the Hodgdon web site. Again, no problems.

One word of caution----The data for Accurate Arms #7 on John Taffin's site was apparently done on some previous version of AA#7 that was much slower than what I just bought a few weeks ago. AGAIN, use the data from [I]Real Guns[I] or the Hodgdon site.

Otherwise, the shootability comments John Taffin made are 'spot-on' with my experience. Same goes for [I]Real Guns.

One thing not mentioned by the pro 45 Super types is that I know that when my Colt 1911 has a compensator hanging off the front end, it is set up for the 460 Rowland. When it isn't, I'm set up for 45 ACP. No confusion for me.

Buck Snort
January 25, 2011, 04:27 AM
Wilson Combat has a 5.5" 460 R. if you've got about $3600 to spend and don't know just where to put it!

Pete D.
January 25, 2011, 07:29 AM
I have had a yen for a .460 Rowland conversion for my 1911 for some few years now. I suppose that, one of these days, I'll give in and acquire one.
But.....what is stopping me is that I had a similar yen for the .400 CorBon. Easy to load, easy to make brass if it is hard to buy. A hot, accurate cartridge.
After a while, I went back to the .45 ACP.
I had a yen for a .45 Super conversion. Did that. A powerful "thumpy" cartridge...
I went back to the .45 ACP.
I can see that cycle repeating itself with the .460.
Pete

John Wayne
January 25, 2011, 11:27 AM
Anyone here convert an XD 45 or XD 45 compact?

GojuBrian
February 4, 2011, 12:56 PM
I'm thinking on adding the 460 rowland kit to my kimber.

Buffalo Bore Ammo has release yet another loading of the 460 Rowland; a 185gr load, at 1524 fps, and 954 fpe. Some of you might be interested in a "human disintergrater" load.

I want one. :D

45crittergitter
February 21, 2011, 01:23 PM
Quote:
the stock XD45 will fire .45 Super with no modifications..


I'm sure it will; the question is just for how long! Do you have a reputable source for that claim? I know a few manufacturers have rated their .45 ACP pistols for .45 Super (HK comes to mind) but the vast majority do not.

Yeah, every .45 ACP will fire the .45 Super with no mods... for a while at least.

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