Interstate dealer to dealer transfer


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ny32182
October 24, 2010, 02:12 AM
My SBRs so far have been Form 1's on recievers I originally bought as "normal" rifles, so I have never tried to do this before: If I buy an already registered NFA item from out of state, is there any kind of (separate) dealer-to-dealer transfer fee?

What is a ballpark range an in-state dealer would charge to transfer a class III item to me (counterpart to the ~$20 to 40 a "normal" FFL will charge to transfer a "normal" firearm)? Thanks for any insight.

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Bubbles
October 24, 2010, 09:29 AM
Find a local SOT or two and ask what the transfer fee is. It will vary throughout the country. We charge $25, I've heard some folks charge as much as $200 and get it because the next closest SOT is a six hour drive away.

ny32182
October 24, 2010, 12:41 PM
$200, ouch! There are at least three or four dealers I know of within an hour of me, so hopefully the competition will bring it down a bit from that.

I also just got an email from a friend stating that his cans were done as transfers for $50 by one of the dealers I mentioned above; that doesn't sound bad to me considering it would have to sit in their shop for ~3 months+ instead of a day or two. I currently pay $35 for standard transfers from a shop that is very convienient to my commute. I'll probably call around Monday.

So, no additional "dealer to dealer" fee to get dinged with is present here then?

GoingQuiet
October 24, 2010, 03:30 PM
If the gun is already on a Form 1 or Form 4 - it will require a tax stamp to get to your local FFL/SOT and then another $200 to you.

CleverNickname
October 24, 2010, 04:16 PM
If you're buying a title II firearm from another non-SOT in another state, then they transfer it on a form 4 ($200 tax) to the SOT in your state, who transfers it to you on a form 4 ($200 tax, plus whatever the SOT charges you for their services).

If you're buying a title II firearm from an SOT who will not being doing the final transfer to you, they transfer it on a form 3 to the SOT who will be doing the final transfer (no tax), who then transfers it to you on a form 4 ($200 tax, plus whatever the SOT charges you for their services).

If you're buying a title II firearm from another non-SOT who is a resident of your state, then it transfers direct from them to you on a form 4 ($200 tax).

Substitute $5 for $200 if an AOW.

ny32182
October 24, 2010, 06:18 PM
Thanks, that is good information.... I HOPE(suspect) that does not apply to the stuff I'm looking at which is advertized NIB from a dealer.

It would be on a Form 1 or 4 only if previously transferred to (or originally registered by) an individual? And if that has never happened, interstate dealer-to-dealer is free?

Bubbles
October 24, 2010, 10:21 PM
Typically when you purchase a Title II firearm from an out-of-state FFL/SOT, the seller doesn't charge a transfer fee as his markup is already included in the price of the gun.

CleverNickname
October 25, 2010, 01:13 AM
It would be on a Form 1 or 4

Guns are not "on forms". Stop thinking of them that way and the system will make more sense. All the form does is tell you how it was last transferred or manufactured. Title II guns are either transferable, pre-samples, post-samples or post-86 LE-only.

GoingQuiet
October 25, 2010, 11:33 PM
Guns are not "on forms". Stop thinking of them that way and the system will make more sense. All the form does is tell you how it was last transferred or manufactured. Title II guns are either transferable, pre-samples, post-samples or post-86 LE-only.
I disagree.

Guns or any other NFA item are in fact "on forms" and it is always useful information to know exactly what you are buying. You ask how many miles are on a used car has before buying it, you ask what form the item is on before buying an NFA item.

Here's why:

Gun is on Form 4 here in FL. Person in TX wants it - it goes Form 4 to an FFL/SOT in Texas for $200 and then another Form 4 and $200 to the end user.
Total cost: $400 + FFL/SOT Transfer Fee. Time in transit: 3 months per stamp, total of 6 months.

Gun is on Form 3 here in FL. Person in TX wants it - it goes Form 3 to an FFL/SOT in Texas, TAX free - 2-4 week wait instead of 3 months, and then another Form 4 takes it to the end user for $200.
Total cost: $200 + FFL/SOT Transfer Fee. Time in transit: 3 months for stamp, total of 4 months.

Gun is on Form 4 here in FL. Person in FL wants it - it goes direct to the end user for $200 without intervention.
Total cost: $200. Time in transit: 3 months for stamp, total.

CleverNickname
October 26, 2010, 11:41 AM
You're missing my point. What's useful is to ask whether the entity that currently possesses the firearm can do a tax-free transfer. Often this can be guessed at by knowing what the last form it was processed on is, but it's nowhere near a certainty.

Here's some examples:

1) A non-licensee buys a gun and it is transferred to him on a form 4. Later he becomes an FFL/SOT and some time after that he decides to sell that gun. Saying that the gun is "on a form 4" would be confusing because the gun could transfer tax-free on a form 3 to another FFL/SOT.

2) A similar situation to #1, except the gun is initially manufactured on a form 1.

3) An FFL/SOT registers a gun on a form 2. Later, he goes out of business, but keeps that gun in his personal collection. Later he decides to sell it. Again, saying the gun is on a form 2 would not be useful information, as it could not be transferred tax-free.

4) A similar situation to #3, except the gun is initially transferred to the FFL/SOT on a form 3.

5) Someone purchases a gun from a law enforcement agency, on a form 5. Without knowing the SOT status of that entity, there is no way to know if it can transfer out from them to someone else on a second tax-free transfer. "On a form 5" tells you nothing.

Zak Smith
October 26, 2010, 03:12 PM
For 99% of the cases, "on a form 3/4" works well as short-hand of the item's tax status.

GoingQuiet
October 26, 2010, 03:32 PM
In situation #1 - A nonlicensee buys a gun that is transferred to him on a Form 4 and then he becomes an FFL/SOT, the firearm is still subject to a $200transfer from the owner to the FFL/SOT or from the owner to another FFL/SOT.

I see what you mean but you illustrated my point entirely - there is merit to seeing if the gun is on a Form _____ before doing anything and there is depth to things besides Transferrable or Pre/Post 86.

You're missing my point. What's useful is to ask whether the entity that currently possesses the firearm can do a tax-free transfer. Often this can be guessed at by knowing what the last form it was processed on is, but it's nowhere near a certainty.

Here's some examples:

1) A non-licensee buys a gun and it is transferred to him on a form 4. Later he becomes an FFL/SOT and some time after that he decides to sell that gun. Saying that the gun is "on a form 4" would be confusing because the gun could transfer tax-free on a form 3 to another FFL/SOT.

2) A similar situation to #1, except the gun is initially manufactured on a form 1.

3) An FFL/SOT registers a gun on a form 2. Later, he goes out of business, but keeps that gun in his personal collection. Later he decides to sell it. Again, saying the gun is on a form 2 would not be useful information, as it could not be transferred tax-free.

4) A similar situation to #3, except the gun is initially transferred to the FFL/SOT on a form 3.

5) Someone purchases a gun from a law enforcement agency, on a form 5. Without knowing the SOT status of that entity, there is no way to know if it can transfer out from them to someone else on a second tax-free transfer. "On a form 5" tells you nothing.

CleverNickname
October 26, 2010, 08:14 PM
A nonlicensee buys a gun that is transferred to him on a Form 4 and then he becomes an FFL/SOT, the firearm is still subject to a $200transfer from the owner to the FFL/SOT or from the owner to another FFL/SOT.

I'm talking about:

1) Non-licensee buys gun and has it transferred to him.
2) Non-licensee gets FFL/SOT.
3) Former non-licensee now FFL/SOT sells the gun and transfers it to another FFL/SOT. In this case it's a tax-free transfer on a form 3. The fact that he was unlicensed at the time of the first transfer to him makes no difference in the taxable status of the second transfer from him, now that he's licensed.

GoingQuiet
October 26, 2010, 08:45 PM
That was not my understanding - but I am now curious. I'm adding this to my monthly ATF list of questions fax.

Jim K
October 26, 2010, 10:04 PM
Once a transfer application (Form 4) is approved, note that if the transferee has a C&R FFL, and the item is a C&R (say a WWII STEN gun), the gun can be shipped/taken by the transferor (whether an SOT dealer or not) directly to the transferee without any SOT dealer needed in the transfreree's state. In such a case, only one transfer tax is paid and no SOT dealer need be involved at all. Nor is an SOT dealer required for transfers within a state; once the transfer is approved, the transferor can ship/take the gun directly to the transferee (unless some state/local law bars that).

Jim

ny32182
October 27, 2010, 05:16 PM
Turns out there is even more interesting information I didn't know about in this thread, and appears to still be on the way to being hashed out to everyone's satisfaction...

In my case I've figured out what will happen. I'm purchasing an item from an SOT in PA. It will go tax free to my dealer in SC via Form 3 (PA dealer estimates 6 to 8 weeks for the form 3).

It will then go to me via Form 4. The in state dealer transfer fee is $50, so it will cost a total of $250 to get it in my hands. If the 6-8 weeks proves true, and the Form 4 takes 3 months, I'll have it sometime around late Feb/early March.

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