22-250 barrel life and twist rate ?


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SteveW-II
October 24, 2010, 09:46 AM
Hi there.

I am looking for some advice about the barrel life and twist rate of a 22-250.

My friend has a Weatherby VarmintMaster in 22-250 that he wants to sell. The barrel is (in his words) shot out. It's a 26" medium weight barrel right now, as it came from the factory. I think it's a German gun from the late 70s.

So, a new barrel required. To keep the intrinsic value of the gun, I would send it back to Weatherby to re-barrel and blue to match the original finish. My questions are, what twist rate and what kind of barrel life can I expect ? This would be my first 22-250, but I shoot a lot of 223 and have 'standardized' on 69 grain for those.

All the 'factory' 22-250s I see seem to have twist rates of no lower than 1-12. I expect them to be unable to stabilize a bullet over about 60 grains. I am not a hunter or varmint shooter and would be punching paper with it at between 300 and 400 yards. I would like to shoot 69 grain SMK or Noslers out of it and so would opt for a 1-9 twist (I don't even know if the Weatherby factory offer this option).

Does anyone here shoot 69 grain bullets from a 22-250 ? What is your twist rate ? I also recall some discussion about 22-250s burning out their barrels pretty quickly. Is that true ? How many rounds is 'quickly' ? I shoot about 3k rounds of 223 a year going by my ordering history at Midway.

Thanks for your help..

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JDMorris
October 24, 2010, 10:00 AM
a .223 gets about 10,000 rounds barrel life. im not sure about the 22-250. its not alot worse as far as velocity goes, compared to .220 swift it will last a while, I'd guess 5,000-8,000 rounds?

Jim Watson
October 24, 2010, 10:05 AM
I don't know if Weatherby would fit a barrel with non-standard twist (You could ask them.) but there are a lot of good barrelmakers and gunsmiths who would accomodate you. Might not come out as shiny but it would shoot well.

A 9" twist would handle 69 grain bullets and maybe 75s. An 8" twist would take you up to 80 grains.

Barrel life will be shorter than a .223; 3000 rounds with true target accuracy would be doing very well.

JDMorris
October 24, 2010, 10:24 AM
Wow, alot less than I thought.

NCsmitty
October 24, 2010, 10:53 AM
Weatherby does offer custom shop barrel options on their new rifles and offer twists as fast as 1in9" in .224 calibers.
As Jim Watson mentioned, you need to call them for more information.

Remember that the 223 suffers from a basic 400fps velocity disadvantage to the 22-250 with like bullets, and is more sensitive to barrel twist rates with heavier bullets than the 22-250.
The velocity of the 22-250 will give a much higher rotational speed to heavier bullets,
which helps with stabilizing those bullets to a point.
You can get away with a slightly slower twist in the 22-250 compared to the 223, using the same bullets.



NCsmitty

SteveW-II
October 24, 2010, 11:21 AM
I will give Weatherby a call, if only to get a quote for the work and discuss twist rates.

I understand that stabilization is a combination of twist and velocity, but the jump from 1-12 to 1-9 for 69 grain bullet seems like a lot. I think I will ask Nosler what twist they would recommend for their 69 grain CCs in a 22-250 and be guided by them.

I see what you mean about barrel life. 3k rounds would tick by awfully fast.. Still, I guess that depends on the quote from Weatherby ! :)

NCsmitty
October 24, 2010, 11:40 AM
SteveW-II, you can add some to the barrel life if you opt for a stainless barrel, but you cannot match up the blue, of course.



NCsmitty

Art Eatman
October 24, 2010, 11:57 AM
Seems to me, just as an opinion about utility and money, the .22-250 is far more a hunting cartridge than a paper puncher--particularly for a person who does a lot of shooting.

For target shooting out at 500 yards or more, I'd guess the .22-250 would be more consistent; the higher velocity makes for better behavior in the breeze/wind. Were I punching paper to no more than 400 yards, I'd likely play cheapskate and stay with the .223. :) But that's just me. Lord knows, the .22-250 is a really neat cartridge.

Thiinking more about that particular rifle, it might well be that just setting the barrel back a turn or two and reaming the chamber would get past the burned part of the leade. Maybe recrown the muzzle on general principles and it ought to be good to go.

SteveW-II
October 24, 2010, 02:17 PM
Thank you to both NCsmitty and Art for your suggestions about setting the barrel back or going for a stainless. Part of the dilemma is that the gun is an honest 99% apart from the (shot out) barrel. Its current owner shot a lot of varmints off of bags on a rest. If it was any other gun than a Weatherby, I would consider it, but as I said, I don't want to lose the intrinsic value of the gun by a nonstandard rebarreling job.

Yes, I realize that I want my cake and eat it too...

Furncliff
October 24, 2010, 11:45 PM
Instead of a new barrel. Bore out to 308?

Strongbad
October 25, 2010, 12:44 AM
If you just want the original look and the bluing to match, you could probably get off better/cheaper by snagging a chromoly bbl from Shilen or similar and have it blued to match. Weatherby isn't the only place that can do it. :) Having a 22-250 that I like to paper punch that has a slow twist makes me want to sway you to a 1:8 or 1:7 so that you can run the 69'ers and beyond.

TexasPatriot.308
October 25, 2010, 01:30 AM
my Ruger No.1 with it's 1/12 twist at the rate I shoot I dont have to worry about burning my barrel out. I shoot often but dont have to worry cause I cant afford the ammo to burn my barrel out, you guys must have money to burn. meanwhile I deal hogs and coyotes hell with it, one helluva gun, one helluva caliber.

Freedom_fighter_in_IL
October 25, 2010, 01:55 AM
You know, I see so many folks on here saying that a 22.250 and a .220swift eats barrels like gummy bears and that may or may not be true with a factory barrel, I have yet to see any barrel burning damage in my 220swift after well over 3000 rounds. Of course it is a hart barrel so maybe that is a bit different. And yes I max load barn burning 50 grainers to over 4000fps and have yet to see a bit of damage to the throat. Mics out to spec.

joed
October 25, 2010, 08:59 AM
My thoughts are just let Weatherby restore what you have with a new barrel in the standard twist for the .22-250.

I watch people try to fool with twist to get a rifle to do what it wasn't designed for. I thoroughly expect to see the .223 one day with a 1:3 twist shooting 200 gr bullets at 800 fps. Why?

You have a .223 that shoots heavy bullets, don't change the .22-250.

Afy
October 25, 2010, 10:57 AM
Freedom Fighter how exactly did you determine that your barrel is just fine after 3000 rounds.

On my .22-250 the barrel started going south at about 1400 rounds.

Freedom_fighter_in_IL
October 25, 2010, 11:39 AM
I slug it and measure for one. For 2 if your barrel is starting to fall off, your accuracy will go as well. Measurements are still well within spec and accuracy out of it is still .5moa or better. That tells me all is still well.

Art Eatman
October 25, 2010, 03:33 PM
Before Remington standardized Jerry Gebby's "Varminter" as the .22-250, it and the Swift had a barrel-burning reputation. That was due mostly to the common use of Hercules HiVel #2, a single-base propellant. As DuPont's double-base 3031 and 4064 became more common and available, the problem subsided quite a bit from the lower burn temperature.

TonyAngel
October 25, 2010, 04:27 PM
I don't know what your rifle is worth in its stock/original form. I don't usually buy rifles for their value, but for how they shoot. Although one reference was made to not trying to get the rifle to do something that it wasn't meant to, I don't adhere to that line of thought. If it's a nice rifle with a nice action, I'd replace the barrel with something that will allow you to do what you want it to do.

Lots of guys have their 1:12 twist .308 rifles re-barreled to 1:10 so that they can shoot the heavy stuff. The fact of the matter is that with advancements in projectile and powder technology, you can safely squeeze more peformance from ammunition/rifles than was thought possible.

I also know bolt gun guys that have had their .223 rifles rebarreled to 1:7 or 1:8 so that they can shoot heavier bullets. These guys are shooting mighty handy bolt guns with 20" barrels that really reach out.

There are a good number of very good barrel manufacturers out there that can accommodate you. Shilen comes to mind, because a friend of mine just had his rifle rebarreled with a Shilen.

Unless your rifle is really valuable and you just have to keep it "stock" with no one but Weatherby having touched it, that's one thing; but if you want to make it "special" you can do all sorts of things. BTW, you can coat a stainless barrel.

I guess you have to decide if you want to stay "stock" or broaden your horizons.

SteveW-II
October 25, 2010, 09:34 PM
> On my .22-250 the barrel started going south at about 1400 rounds.

1400 rounds ! :eek:

Tony Angel, we are on the same page. I don't consider putting a faster twist barrel on the gun to be a material change that would impact it's value. Hence the desire to let Wetherby do it, if it's a service they offer.

I also understand that rifles are to be shot, not just valued, but I wouldn't go out of my way to spoil a nice gun like a Weatherby just so that I can shoot it. If Weatherby won't rebarrel the gun in a standard barrel profile but with a faster twist, then I am unlikely to buy it or would settle on a load with a lighter bullet.

I am still reeling at the 1400 round number.

NCsmitty
October 25, 2010, 10:58 PM
Bear in mind that fast twists can show an increase in pressure and can distort the jacket on some bullets. Especially in a fast, high pressure round like the 22-250.

Compare a 1in7" twist to a 1in14" twist barrel. At the same 3500fps velocity, it will increase the bullets rpm from 180,000 to 360,000 rpm.
What friction dynamics do you think is going on here?

It's also a known fact that fast twist barrels are more prone to wear for obvious reasons.

Some thought should be given when making decisions like this, because it's not just a simple re-barreling job.



NCsmitty

TexasPatriot.308
October 26, 2010, 12:05 AM
if you can shoot that many rounds, you got deep pockets so it shouldnt matter to you at that point....fire away..you afford another barrel..

JDMorris
October 26, 2010, 07:12 AM
I probably have 200 or so rounds through my .308 now..
been about 2 months.

kaferhaus
October 26, 2010, 11:05 AM
I've shot out at least a dozen 22-250s and can tell you that accuracy starts to drop off around 1200rds and the barrel is usually toast within 1500. Unlikely a "sporter" barrel can be set back.... in fact most varmint weight barrels cannot be set back without leaving a very ugly gap in the stock inletting...

My "bag guns" now sport straight tube barrels.... they can usually be set back twice before becoming tomato stakes...

22-250 and the swift are well known barrel burners.... and I've had two swifts that went south shy of 1000 rds.

That's a lot of gun powder being blow torched down a small dia hole.....

And I'd not choose a 22-250 for punching paper.... the 222 -223 cartridges are more accurate at paper punching range (300yds or less) and are far cheaper to load and far easier on barrels

joed
October 26, 2010, 11:19 AM
Bear in mind that fast twists can show an increase in pressure and can distort the jacket on some bullets. Especially in a fast, high pressure round like the 22-250.

Compare a 1in7" twist to a 1in14" twist barrel. At the same 3500fps velocity, it will increase the bullets rpm from 180,000 to 360,000 rpm.
What friction dynamics do you think is going on here?

It's also a known fact that fast twist barrels are more prone to wear for obvious reasons.

Some thought should be given when making decisions like this, because it's not just a simple re-barreling job.

NCSMITTY, thank you! I keep seeing everyone talk about faster twist and heavier bullets. To quote one of my teachers "You don't get something for nothing". I've always said a faster twist barrel won't live as long as a slower twist. It's a trade off going to a fast twist. I don't even consider it a viable option on a higher velocity cartridge.

MinnMooney
October 26, 2010, 02:43 PM
Either of these two rates work but I prefer the 1:9" for varmints at very long range so I can stabalize the 69 gr - 77 gr pills.

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