young children in a house with a firearm


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kc2ixk
December 17, 2003, 11:27 PM
I'm Daniel Albertine. My father has always had many firearms in the house as I have grown up. and he trained me proper gun safety when I was very young. I think that this worked because even to this day I would never touch a firearm without permission. What my father did was when he cleaned his firearms he would gather me and my brothers and sister, and review safety rule with us. Asking questions like "What do you do if you see a firearm on the ground in a public area?" and we would all answer "Go find you or a police officer and tell them that there is a gun lying on the ground." And he would let us look at the firearms, reminding to look to see that the safety is on that there isn't a mag in it, and that there is not a round in the chamber. He also taught us not to do it with just our eyes but to feel that there is no mag and there isn't a round in the chamber. He also stressed that we should check the firearm even if the person handing the firearm to us had just checked it. He then would let us wipe the firearm down and he would but them away. I hope this helps anyone who has children and firearms in their household.

Daniel Albertine

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Standing Wolf
December 17, 2003, 11:29 PM
1. Welcome to the High Road.

2. Your father sounds like a man of wisdom and trust.

Black Majik
December 18, 2003, 12:01 AM
Welcome to the Highroad.

I agree w/ being open about firearms to children. Many people I know try to "hide" the gun and not explain proper firearm safety. Keeping children in a dark hole only makes them more curious to the "forbidden".

My father has a different approach than I do. He's the type to keep the kids away from firearms at all cost. I have trained my younger sisters about proper firearm safety, and quiz them every once in a while, and everytime they are near a firearm in my presence. I've also told them that they can see the firearms anytime they want to, but ONLY under my supervision. They now know the function of each firearm in the house. I am trying to get them into the shooting sport under my supervision, yet my father tries to shun them away from the sport, basically reasoning that the shooting sport is a guy thing to do.

Whatever the case, if he doesn't want them to get into shooting, that's understandable. But I think releasing the mystery of firearms is a big factor. I know when I was a kid I was brought up the same way and my curiosity for firearms was quite high.

I plan to teach my kids proper firearms safety when they're young also. But yeah, I dunno why I typed this out.. heh...:p

10-Ring
December 18, 2003, 12:15 AM
Welcome to THR ;) ...and it sounds like your Dad did it right ;)

rayra
December 18, 2003, 12:15 AM
Not only does hiding the firearm still endanger the child, but it leaves them COMPLETELY at risk re loose / unattended firearms in their friends' parents' homes

Ky Larry
December 18, 2003, 12:19 AM
You dad sounds like a smart cookie. Never choose ignorance over education.

geekWithA.45
December 18, 2003, 12:26 AM
Another sad and important point to add to the discipline of child rearing around firearms in this day and age of official nosiness in schools and so on:

"We don't talk about Mom & Dad's guns to anyone. Not to friends, not to teachers, it's no one's business. If they ask, this is one of those _very_rare_times_ it's OK to lie, and say NO, mom & dad don't have any guns."

I hate telling kids to lie, but I feel it's the lesser evil than allowing them to become a pawn in someone else's sick power game.

7.62FullMetalJacket
December 18, 2003, 01:29 AM
Welcome. You are a credit to a wise man: Dad.:)

BluesBear
December 18, 2003, 03:52 AM
kc2ixk, Welcome aboard!

Since it is impossible to completely childproof a gun your father did the responsible thing and gunproofed his children.

Kudos to this fine gentleman.

In this holiday season I hope this is one family tradition that you continue.

ceetee
December 18, 2003, 08:35 AM
This is a very interesting topic... I married a woman who already had children, then we had one of our own. Once, we were chiding one of the older children (he was seventeen) because he was listening to music that was just not appropriate to have on around the little one (she was six).

We told him that even though we thought the music was "crap", we thought he was old enough to be able to listen to it, and not let it influence his behavior. On the other hand, we told him, his little sister was not yet old enough to make that distinction.

His argument back was that I have let her see my guns on numerous occasions, and (as he said) "Guns are bad... How can you let her be around guns, but not my music?" :banghead:


I tried as best I could to explain that it's not the gun that's bad, but the people who do bad things with it... I don't think I succeded. Since, I've tried to include him in my shooting, but he's declined ther opportunity. My daughter (now seven) has already said she wants to go shooting with Dad when she's old enough.

Oh, well... One out of two ain't bad.

TarpleyG
December 18, 2003, 08:45 AM
"We don't talk about Mom & Dad's guns to anyone. Not to friends, not to teachers, it's no one's business. If they ask, this is one of those _very_rare_times_ it's OK to lie, and say NO, mom & dad don't have any guns."
Geek,

This may very well be the case in the PRNJ but I'll be damned if I'll have my kids lying about guns. Just another reason to try and get yourself out of there. It is absolutely none of the school system's business if I own guns. They can kiss my lily white a$$. I only bring this up because someone had posted about kids bringing home forms to parents asking specifically about guns in the home. First of all, the kids shouldn't have to answer the question, lying about it or not. Secondly, why does it matter? And to keep this OT, I completely agree that getting kids exposed early on is the absolutely safest way to go.

GT

fiVe
December 18, 2003, 09:50 AM
Welcome to THR, kc2ixk.

CZ-100
December 18, 2003, 10:42 AM
quote:
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"We don't talk about Mom & Dad's guns to anyone. Not to friends, not to teachers, it's no one's business. If they ask, this is one of those _very_rare_times_ it's OK to lie, and say NO, mom & dad don't have any guns."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Geek,

This may very well be the case in the PRNJ but I'll be damned if I'll have my kids lying about guns. Just another reason to try and get yourself out of there. It is absolutely none of the school system's business if I own guns. They can kiss my lily white a$$. I only bring this up because someone had posted about kids bringing home forms to parents asking specifically about guns in the home. First of all, the kids shouldn't have to answer the question, lying about it or not. Secondly, why does it matter? And to keep this OT, I completely agree that getting kids exposed early on is the absolutely safest way to go.

I do not tell them to lie, But I do tell them to say it is none of your business.

TerryBob
December 18, 2003, 01:34 PM
I am in the process of gun-proofing my two five year olds. I show them the guns whenever I have them out. We talk over the no touch rule a lot. I tell the usual stuff and that they have all of thier toy guns to play around with.

One time, the TV happened to be on but nobody was watching it. When I came into the room, they were watching the 70s version of King Kong. At the end, when King Kong was being shot at, they ask about the holes exploding out of him. I used it to teach them that that is what guns do and that is what can happen to their brothers, sister or friends if they are playing with a real gun. They were shocked. I think that the leason worked.

I can not take them to the range yet. They are too imature for that. I think that kids get to learn when they are mature enough, not old enough. I cant wait until my kids will pay attention and not run willy neely around in circles whenever I try to show them something. I feel unsafe enough trying to teach them to fish.

Take care all,

TerryBob

Azrael256
December 18, 2003, 02:54 PM
My dad did the exact same thing. If I *ever* wanted to look at a gun, handle it, dry fire it, etc. all I had to do was ask, and dad would supervise. It took away the mystery, and after awhile I saw guns just like any other tool. Getting a new hammer is cool, but I only touch my hammer when I need it, and I don't screw around with it. De-mystifying it and teaching a child to treat it just like any other tool activates the only truly effective safety device: the one between their ears.

TonyB
December 18, 2003, 02:58 PM
Kc...welcome..we may be neighbors.....
sounds like our Dads have a lot in common.....
I find it amusing that "liberals" always use the "knowledge is power"mantra except when it comes to guns......then ignorance must be bliss if we want our kids to be safe from evil guns........I have been around guns all my life ..it build a healthy respect and takes some of the mystique away........but thankfully not all.....:D

TerryBob
December 18, 2003, 03:00 PM
You guys are doing good. Keep it up for me. As I said earlier, I am gun proofing two five year olds and I need all of the info that I can get. I think that I am doing good so far but they are only 5 and can only grasp so much at a time.

I also have two 1 year olds so whatever I screw up on the first set, I can revise the leasons and use that on set 2.

TerryBob

El Tejon
December 18, 2003, 03:28 PM
Welcome to THR!:)

You had a good teacher. I hope you share your knowledge with us.

patent
December 18, 2003, 03:48 PM
I hate telling kids to lie, but I feel it's the lesser evil than allowing them to become a pawn in someone else's sick power game.

When I was young my mom asked me if I could get drugs at school. I answered that I could, what kind did she want? She didn't know how to respond to that.

I think I'll teach my kids the same thing with respect to guns. Yes doctor, we have guns, what kind do you need?

patent

BluesBear
December 18, 2003, 04:13 PM
TerryBob, there is a book you can get titled "How To Gunproof Your Children" written by Massad Ayoob. You can get if from Amazon.com I believe it only costs $4.95. It's a very short read and it works. It covers all of the bases.

I highly recommend that every person on the planet read it.

mwithers72
December 18, 2003, 04:50 PM
I do the samething with my 5yr old son. We clear off the table and put my old cleaning towels down. I clear and disassemble the guns and explane to him what I am doing in each step and what each part does. I let him dip the cleaning patch in the solvent for me ( I put it on the cleaning rod first) all the while I recite the 4 rules to him and go over what he should do if he should come across one at a friends house or in public. He really loves to help daddy clean guns and I enjoy the "guy" time I can spend with him.

mark

Chipperman
December 18, 2003, 10:06 PM
"Yes doctor, we have guns, what kind do you need? "

I like that. :D

I have not had that question yet, but my Boys are only 2 1/2. I'm sure I'll get the dreaded questionaire from school at some point.

geekWithA.45
December 19, 2003, 10:34 AM
"Yes doctor, we have guns, what kind do you need? "


I like the sound of that too, but you honestly don't want to go there.

The questioniare forms the basis of a first pass to determine which kids are "at risk", and they're the first step of what can be a series of increasing "interventions".

Once a kids is suspected of being "at risk", the school might feel it their duty to investigate. Depending on how it pans out, things might escalate, and you might find yourself trapped in a web of state "intervention".

How likely is that? Under normal circumstances, I'd say it's not a highly likely thing, especially in the more reasonable parts of the country.

HOWEVER, it's not all that farfetched to consider a zealous administrator in an unreasonable part of the country overstepping their authority. NJ's already famous for handing out materials on gun bigotry in schools, so we're probably a few steps closer to political litmus tests for state intervention than most, at least in some cases.

Eventually, such an event may or may not be sorted out, but in the end, why take a chance?

In an era when gunowners are harrased and arrested at airports (http://www.livejournal.com/users/abz6598/312060.html), inviting "intervention" is no longer a joke.

patent
December 19, 2003, 01:37 PM
quote:
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"Yes doctor, we have guns, what kind do you need? "
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




I like the sound of that too, but you honestly don't want to go there.
The questioniare forms the basis of a first pass to determine which kids are "at risk", and they're the first step of what can be a series of increasing "interventions".

Once a kids is suspected of being "at risk", the school might feel it their duty to investigate. Depending on how it pans out, things might escalate, and you might find yourself trapped in a web of state "intervention".



Unfortunately (or fortnuately, however you view it) we are pretty much already flagged. We homeschool, and whether we have guns or not, they already target homeschoolers. As much as I don't want to be the guy who is the test case, we are more or less prepared for that to happen. Lots of little things you have to do to protect yourself. We refuse to hand the kids over to the public school, as it seems to be little more than a indoctrination facility with a sub par education component. I don't really want to invite attention, but at the same time, I don't want to teach my wife or the kids to lie to the doctor who asks this crap, and I don't want to bow to an overly intrusive state. The answer "none of your business" does the same thing, I can have more fun with this one though.

Like all decisions, this one has risk to it.

patentfrr

Typhoon
December 19, 2003, 03:51 PM
Guns 'n kids...

My experience:

I come from a family of shooters. Every so often, the whole clan would trek up to the desert where Granddad had a ranch (I'm from the Los Angeles area, ranch was up past Lancaster).

The grown-ups would kill a bunch of coke bottles, targets (and, ok, the occasional jack rabbit....)

The kids would always be included in the fun if we wanted.

"Hey kid, come here. Wanna shoot this?" (Of course, it came with all the appropriate safety lectures....again...)

Blam...blam...blam... (Kid thinks, OK, been there, done that...think I'll go play with the dog now...)

Later that evening, when the guns were all out on the table and time to clean...

"Hey kid, come here."

"What?"

"Time to clean the gun(s)."

"Why should I do it? You shot it all day. I shot it for two minutes!"

"Too bad. You shoot it, you clean it."

...Been sniffing Hoppes ever since...

We need to take the mystery out of firearms for the kids. Most are smart enough to see the crap in the media for what it is, as long as they have proper instruction at home. After lots of trips to the ranch, I became more interested in ...the car...boys...etc. than firearms...

Welcome.

Andrea

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