[devildog32713]

Howdy all, My options: Savage Edge, Mossberg ATR. Remington 770 was one of my options, but I've learned it's a POS. Additionally, what caliber should I go with? My shoulder isn't the concern, my accuracy is. Options: .30-06, .270, .308, .243, and 7mm-08 in the savage. I like the 7mm's ballistics, but ammunition isn't as plentiful and more expensive around here. Thank you all.

[Abel]

Get a Tikka Lite in 270. They're not very expensive and the quality is pretty darned good.

[devildog32713]

$500+ is past my 15 year old paycheck ;)

[slowr1der]

Go with the Savage Model 10 from Walmart with the accu trigger. It is right under $400 and one of the best values out there. Much much better than the Remington 770 for not much more. It comes with a Simmons scope, which should get you by until you can afford better. Or if you want a caliber that's chambered in a long action it will be the model 110 instead of model 10.

[Smith357]

I like the versatility of the 06 but then I reload for it. Really all the calibers you mention are good. While the .243 will also double as a fine varmint cartridge it may be a bit small for large mulies. As for the rifle, I'm a solid believer in buying a good used rifle, you can generally pick up a good scoped mid grade rifle for less than a bare new economy grade rifle. There are plenty of nice lightly used Remingtons, Winchesters, Savages, and even Browning BAR MKIIs in the $4-600 range with decent glass.

I was in the market about a year ago and got a nice Winchester M70 .30-06 with a Leupold 3x9 for $425
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/smith357/armory/Model%2070/win70.jpg

[Justin Holder]

Search the used rack. You just might find a great deal.

A while back Academy had some Stevens 200 7mm-08 and 270win for $180 brand new.

[turbo]

I would ask, where and in what kind of area do you hunt? Are you a walker or a tree stand hunter, light brush or heavy woods, most likely what would be your longest shot? If you start with these questions and you have a budget , then you may home in on a good used weapon to suit your needs. And there are some great used stuff out there if you spend the time to answer the above questions your choices will narrow down to a list you can afford.

[Abel]

If money is an issue, go for the Stevens 200. Put a Bushnell Banner on it with some Weaver mounts and you're set.

[Birdmang]

Savage edge in .243

[Tim the student]

Man, I'd love to help, but I'm the wrong sort of veteran. :D

Good luck with your search.

[Uncle Mike]

Of the ones you mention, the Savage Edge is the only one that I would consider, and on that note, I'll say that you would be better off to find a Stevens 200 in 30-06 maybe, or the 7mm-08.

You may be able to locate a good used rifle, word of advice, unless your completely comfortable, and trust the descriptions of the rifles you see on sites like Gun Broker and such, I would search the local gun shops so you could fondle them before you purchase.

[PedalBiker]

Aside from less recoil there's no advantage of the 7mm over a 30-06. For deer there's no practical difference between any of the larger calibers you listed. The 243 is my favorite of the bunch for shooting, but it's a big step down from even the 7mm-08. That's why it's so fun to shoot.

Of the rifles you listed the Savage would be my pick.

Mossberg rifles may be ok. I think they share many design features with the savage.

[Jonny V]

and I second the "used rifle" motion. If you have a Cabelas that's local to you, they have racks and racks of used rifles of every sort and make. Your local gun dealer probably has used rifles coming out his ears too. I would NOT buy a used rifle sight unseen.

That being said, I would recommend the 270 as a perfect starting caliber. It will comfortably take any game up to and including elk, and (with the 30 06) it's the most economical of the bunch to shoot. You will NEVER out-grow the 270. Jack O'connor was right, the 270 is one of the all time great American rifle cartridges.

The used rifle recommendation is a bit easier to make. Modern rifles, although they look shiny and new and tricked out, are made as cheaply and as quickly as they can force the little sweat-shop workers to rush them out. On top of that, you'll win the lottery about 35 times before you find a new rifle made out of virgin steel.

You are much more likely to get a high quality firearm for much less money on the used market. If you restrict your search to weapons 25 years old, or older, you will (for the most part) be looking at a weapon made of virgin steel, by a knowledgeable and skilled machinist, not a sweat shop worker. It should be not much of a problem for you to come up with a nice Winchester model 70, Remington 700, or Mauser 98 for around $300, and it might even have a scope on it.

Semper Fi

[RonDeer10mm]

from the three you listed my choice would definetly be the savage edge.
but a weatheby vanguard at $399 is a way better rifle IMO.
caliber choice is up to you.

[Lloyd Smale]

walmart has rem 700 cammo matte blued guns for under 450 bucks. to me thats the best bang for the buck out there.

[dodge]

I have an Edge I wouldn't recommend it to a first time shooter. The stock is flimsey at best and the trigger pull is for a gorilla. You would be much better off with a Stevens or good used rifle. With used rifles most are not shot very much and are a better buy.

[BrocLuno]

For deer, anything from a 30-30 to 7mm. A good 30-30 with new LeverEvolution pointy bullets will do just fine. If you need more reach than 150 yds, try 308. The big deal is not the cost of the gun (although that's a factor), it's what comes to shoulder well and points well. After that, it's what can you feed from any store in your hunting area? 30-30, 308, 30-06 are all pretty cheap to feed. Ammo costs go up from there as far as I can tell in my part of the world. The ammo cost is not related to hunting - that will be less than a box a year - it'll be related to practice that should be many boxes a year :)

[Cemo]

The .243 works very well on deer size game. With a 100 gr. bullet it makes the ultimate deer rifle IMHO. With a shot thru the lungs, they don't go far, and a shoulder shot will usually take them down on the spot. Several of my family members and friends use it. The ammo is available at most places, the gun is accurate and recoil is mild. If larger game is in the future for this gun, you might consider the .308, it is a very capable round for overall use i.e whitetails, mule deer, elk, black bear, etc, and is my favorite larger round. If you come across a rife cambered in the 25-06 in you price range, don't overlook it. The 25-06 adds a little more range and moves up a little in the size of game.

In the price range that you are in, I recommend the Salvage or look around for a clean used Ruger 77, Remington 700 or Winchester 70. NEF makes a single shot .243 which would be in your price range. I've had several NEF's and they were very accurate, although never had one in a .243.

Most important, get out there and enjoy the experience of deer hunting. Good luck, hope the thirty-pointer walks into your sights.

[pikid89]

do your self a favor and stick to the flagship models of the major gun companies
Remington 700, Ruger No.1 / M77 (MKI, MKII, Hawkeye), Winchester M70/ M94, Marlin 336, Savage 10 or 110, NEF/H&R handi rifle

when it comes to a major purchase like a deer rifle, buy once cry once.
if you cheap out on either the rifle or the glass, youll spend more on ammo and such chasing zero, trying to get the rig set up to your satisfaction

buy the best rifle and glass that you can afford, even if that means putting off the purchase a little bit to save up a bit more for a better rig

(check your local walmart, i just picked up a Remington M700 ADL 270 for like 300 bucks then get a bushnell elite 3200 for 200 and you will never NEED another medium big game rifle till the day you die)

[Water-Man]

For your budget I'd get a Marlin bolt action and you can't go wrong with .308.

[T.R.]

FUR-FISH-GAME Magazine recently published a thorough review of Mossberg 4 X 4 rifle in 270 caliber. It was the "package rifle" complete with scope and mounts with laser bore sighting performed at the factory. Amazing accuarsy was produced with a variety of ammo and bullet weights. Cost was less than $500. for this package. 270 ammo can be found anywhere is is often discounted this time of year. The review featured 270 but its safe to assume that Mossberg builds all their rifles with same degree of quality.

Savage & Howa rifles are always good rifles to consider.

308 is easily the most versatile. Factory ammo includes:

- Remington Managed Recoil & FEDERAL Lite for approx 30-30 ballistics

- Remington AccuBond and various Premium bullets for truely big game

- High performance ammo by Hornady & Black Hills for ultra long range shooting

- Plain but lethal soft tip ammo by Remington, Winchester, FEDERAL, and others

For a lever action, Marlin offers genuine tack drivers in 308 Marlin Express and 338 Marlin Express. The reviews I've read leads me to believe that they're under priced. High quality stainless steel actions & barrels are fitted to laminate stocks with real cut checkering. Lever actions aren't for every hunter but I love 'em!

Good hunting to you.

TR
USAF Retired

[Cemo]

When buying new or used rifles from gun shops, or used from individuals, always offer them less than what they are asking. You can sometimes get better price bartering, most they can do is say no. Sometimes you can beat Walmart pricing.

[teirst]

I have read/seen bad things about the mossberg ATR

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=418820&highlight=mossberg+atr

Shows a guy who was eventually able to get decent groups out of it (1.5 inches at 100 yards) but took working up handloads. Factory ammo was up to 4 inches at 100 yards. The few I have felt had kinda stiff bolts. For a cheap rifle used is really the way to go. Bonus if you are like me and love the feel of wood it is a lot cheaper to get a used rifle with wood furniture than a new one ;). For new the stevens 200 and some of the wal-mart package deals are hard to beat.

[Jonny V]

DevilDog, I thought about your question most of the night and wanted to clarify some things I said in my earlier post about buying used.

New manufacture rifles (or anything for that matter) are roughly built. You can see this for yourself. Go to the gunstore and ask to see a new rifle from the maker of your choice. Then ask to see a 30 year old used rifle in the same price range. On the new rifle, when you look inside its guts, you'll see:
plastic parts
sloppy machine work and tool marks
untrimmed metal flashing
rough, painted surfaces

It's because (in Remington and Marlin and all others too) they slam out a new rifle every two minutes. That's not a joke, that's the corporate mandate. How much care do you really think they put into a two minute rifle? And it's all the makers, not just one or two.

You're not likely to see any of these defects on a 30 year old rifle. The old rifle was made the old way by people who knew what they were doing. Skilled machinists and craftsmen.

When you only have a few hundred to spend, you have to make sure that you get it right the very first time. As a comparison, I remember looking at pool tables once with a friend. There were lots of new ones made out of particle board, and one that was made in 1936 out of solid (real) wood. It needed a good waxing, but that was it. My buddy saw the new one and hollered "look, it's got a 5 year warrantee!". 3 years later, the parts of that new table were falling off and it looked like &^$#@@. Never mind that the 60 year old table was still going strong.

The point is to always spend your money on quality, not flash. A good all purpose rule is that new things are no good.

Semper Fi

[phoglund]

I'd go with .308 and whatever rifle feels best in your hands. Lots of ammo options, including some very accurate ammo. Remember .308 has been a common sniper round for decades. Lots of information and experience out there in making it accurate.

Where you will be hunting will have something to do with caliber as well. I live in Montana where shots of a few hundred yards are relatively common (although I avoid them). Something like 30-30 is a no-go for me but might be a great option in the southeast or tighter woods.

My personal big game experience is exclusively with 30.06 which is a grand old round capable of taking any game in the lower 48 within 300 yards. .308 doesn't give up much to it, particularly with modern loadings, and comes in a shorter action length.

Paul

[HOOfan_1]

New manufacture rifles (or anything for that matter) are roughly built. You can see this for yourself. Go to the gunstore and ask to see a new rifle from the maker of your choice. Then ask to see a 30 year old used rifle in the same price range. On the new rifle, when you look inside its guts, you'll see:
plastic parts
sloppy machine work and tool marks
untrimmed metal flashing
rough, painted surfaces


Looked at a brand new Winchester Super Grade at Gander Mountain the other day...looked like a fine rifle to me. Fit and finish was nearly custom grade. I am not impressed with the newer Remington 700 BDLs though. Smooth pistol grip cap, as opposed to the checkered cap my 30+ year old rifle has. The bluing is not polished like my 30+ year old rifle (Winchester Super Grade has about as high a polish on the barrel as I have seen outside of Sako) Wood doesn't look as good on the newer BDLs either.

I am still gunning for a Remington 700 VLS though. Still love the looks of that.

[ColdChili]

I would recommend the larger diameter caliber you have listed 30-06 or 308, just my preference, but all the calibers you have listed are fine chioces for deer.

I'm suprised no one mentioned a browing (I'm a little biased as a 30-06 A-bolt was my first deer rifle). It shoots great and it seemed to have less recoil than a rem 700 in .270 (but it could have been the loads??)

also, someone mentioned virgin steel on older guns, I'm not sure how that makes a difference versus a new rifle with recyled steel?

[natman]

I'd recommend a Stevens 200 or Marlin XS7 in 308. The Mossberg is OK for the money, but can't compete with the Stevens or Marlin. The Remington 770 is indeed a steaming POS. Don't even consider it.

[HOOfan_1]

I'm suprised no one mentioned a browing (I'm a little biased as a 30-06 A-bolt was my first deer rifle).

not even close to being in his price range. Can you even find a decent used A-bolt for under $500?

[wankerjake]

.30-06, .270, .308, .243

Any of these calibers will do. Ammunition is relatively cheap, plentiful, and accurate. The other calibers will also kill deer, but they are more expensive. 7mag ammo is usually plentiful but a little more expensive. For deer though, all you need is a .243, so again, any will do the trick.

[Jonny V]

Yeah, we've gotta remember his price range (max $500). I should also say that most of my comments were meant for this price range. It's easy to find new rifles that have beautiful workmanship (Browning, Weatherby Mark V, Mauser, one of the custom makers, etc). The problem is that those new rifles are going to be well north of $1000.

If we look at his $500 number, he probably needs rifle, scope, and at least some ammo.......With this in mind, his best option is the used market and lots of searching and comparing. I've been buying bargain firearms for years now, and I know how I feel every time I have to go to multiple gun stores and fondle lots of different rifles :D + :what: = :neener: !!!!!!



Semper Fi

[brettrow]

Regardless of brand of rifle, the .270 is the choice I would use. Just as deadly but less recoil of 30.06, and 150 grain bullets work on elk just fine. I shoot 130 and 140 grain for deer.

[BrocLuno]

I'd say the same for 308 and 243. 270 is good, but ...

Browning A Bolt - you bet, you see one, grab it - but it will be used to come even close to your price range and it won't be in the rack long - guaranteed :)

[Redhat]

I guess I'll be the lone ranger and recommend the CZ550 (mine is .270).

If you can find one for the price you want.

I bought mine in '03 for $450...don't know what they cost now but if you can get it, it's a good rifle!

I also shop the used rack these days but if you don't know what to look for you might get one that has been used and abused.

Good luck!

[snakeman]

I would just go for a savage stevens or howa I have had both and still have howa. Weatherby vanguard is a good choice also.

[kludge]

All the calibers you list will work on deer. .30-06, .270, .308, 243, 7mm-08.

Of those .243 would be a the bottom of my list; the .243's effectiveness stops at deer, the other keep going. 7mm-08 would be at the top of my list. Most good sporting goods stores (and online stores) will have ammo. Of the ones on the list my WalMart doesn't have .308 or 7mm-08 on the shelf.

[JShirley]

You have to look at your priorities. Are you planning on a rifle that you'll put in a lot of range time with, and also take hunting? Or are you planning on this being a hunting rifle that you'll just take shooting enough to feel comfortable?

If you plan on shooting a LOT, cost of ammunition should be carefully considered. IF legal for deer where you are, a Howa .22-250 should be quite accurate, more economical than most new rifles, and ammo will cost less. Just be sure to go with a heavier 62-grain SP when you're ready to go for deer...

Buying a quality used rifle is also a great idea.

John

[ms6852]

I've only used 4 rifles for hunting, a savage 110 and Tikka T3 both in 30-06. Great caliber with a wide varieties of weight. Biggest deer I shot 11 points 225 lbs dressed, I shot with a 125 gr bullet at about 85 yards. Since you reload you can reload the 110 grain for varmints as well. The other two are a Winchester 30-30 and a Marlin 336 35 remington. Any of these will get the job done for what you want. The 30-06 rifles are accurate out of the box.

[ReadyontheRight]

I am going to pile on with the used rifle idea. I like old bolt guns with iron sights for deer. You could start with iron sights and eventually buy a $200-ish good scope. And always have the iron sights for back-up. But don't get the peep-thru site mounts.

It might not be your cuppa tea, but I have found a few deals on old sporterized Springfield 1903s and 1917 Eddystones with pretty good (not great) 60's era optics (Weaver, Redfield) in the $300 or less range. Sometimes much less. Lots of guys are selling rifles these days.

Don't forget about the venerable 30-30 lever action. Nice to carry in the woods if you are a walking hunter.

If you go used, just make sure the muzzle is not ripped apart from cleaning.

If you go with 30-06, you have the option of surplus ammo for practice and plinking. .270 will shoot faster and flatter if you reload or just plan to sight in and hunt.

[HOOfan_1]

I guess I'll be the lone ranger and recommend the CZ550 (mine is .270).
I bought mine in '03 for $450...don't know what they cost now but if you can get it, it's a good rifle!


Unfortunately....or fortunately depending on how you want to look at it, they have become so popular that they are in the Browning A-bolt price range now...$700+

[Redhat]

Dang!!! That's too bad!

[lloveless]

There is a lot of info here. Some good, some not so good. A .270 is a necked down 30/06. How is that going to give less recoil? When I went looking for a deer rifle I shot a friends 30/06 side by side with his .243. The .243 gave me whiplash, and I quit after 3 shots. I love the rolling back of the 30/06(shot up all five cartridges). I bought a .308 cause that is what I could afford and bought a used one with scope and sling. The recoil/ballistics are about the same as the 06. The 06 is more versatile because of the ability to hold more powder thereby throwing heavier bullets farther with flatter trajectories than a .308. Availablity of the 2 is usually comparable. Good luck with your search and let us know how it turns out for you.
ll

[Lakedaemonian]

Remington (dispite recent slander) makes some of the finest bolt action rifles to this day. I would chamber it in 270 and go with the 700 series, for the reason of superior ballistics -vs- knockdown. Personally, Im using a Sharps 45-70 this year... haha

[devildog32713]

Thank-you all, I plan to look at some local gunstores soon to search the used rack, went to one just the other day but it was more of a tactical gun dealer, and they only had three options, none of which I liked or could afford. I am ALL FOR OLD STYLE QUALITY. However if I can't find something older, I may look at a walmart savage or stevens. I will shoot my rifle as much as I can. However I do not know how much that will be. (Control freak-safety freak mother) I currently have a Mosin Nagant, and a 12 gauge pump, synthetic stocked shotgun. What would these different calibers compare to the Mosin and the 12 gauge? I'm not afraid of recoil, but rather want the largest caliber I can shoot accurately. How much will muzzle jump affect my accruacy?

[Jonny V]

As far as comparing the calibers, the 270 will recoil a little less, and the 3006 about even with the Mosin. The 12 with slugs might be the stiffest recoiler of the bunch. Since money is an issue for you, I would really suggest the 270 or 3006. You can get Rem Express loads for less than $20 a box, and they will kill anything you would be shooting at. The 130gr 270 load is out the barrel at more than 3000 fps, and has a decades long reputation for "lightning strike" kills.

Joining your local gun club and signing up for all the hunter safety and other training classes they offer might help to assuage your mother's fears.

The muzzle jump will affect your accuracy if you let it. Making sure that you have properly mounted the rifle to your shoulder and cheek, and used your sling to really crank down and steady the piece is key to reducing the 'felt recoil'. If you do your part and not flinch, then you won't have to worry about it because the muzzle jumps after the round is long gone. Also remember, it's not how hard the rifle hits you that counts. It's that you hit your point of aim and kill the animal cleanly with one shot. Taking recoil is not a test of manliness.

[bpl]

Devildog,

The 7.62x54R Mosin round is right between 308 and 30-06 powerwise, and should be recoilwise as well. Of course, weight of rifle, stock fit and shape, and load being fired will all effect felt recoil. In my neck of the woods, 243, 270, 308 and 30-06 are all readily available and the same price for hunting loads. The 308 has an advantage for large volume practice as you can get surplus 7.62x51 NATO and also match ammo for practice much more easily than the others. These rounds are not for hunting, though.

[devildog32713]

Thanks Johnny, I've already completing hunter's safety, and been successful and safe on my first hunting trip (squirrels). I've been denied the request to join the local gun club..

[Jonny V]

Why would they deny you? Or was it your mom who denied you? If that's the case, you're stuck and will have to wait until you're 18. If the club denied you then you should find another to join. Gun clubs don't have much business excluding young people and discriminating against folks who want to join. One of the primary reasons for the existence of clubs is to provide good, safe instruction to young members.

Hang in there, read all you can, get some snap caps for dry firing, and be patient. You're going to do real good, even if it takes a little longer than you might want. There are lots of people on here who'll be happy to help out too.

[stsimons]

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/57842

This Marlin XL7 in 270 is very very nice...

[Still Shooting]

I personally will throw in with the "Get a .270" crowd, although my favorite deer gun is a Ruger 77 in .257 Roberts. My wife shoots a 77 in .243 cal., but is falling in love with my Ruger 77 Mk II 270. She's a new shooter and hunter, but has a nasty habit of shooting 100yd targets with the 270 that have 3 overlapping holes, and a sub-1" group. -I may have to retire, and let her bring home the venison! I had a Vanguard in 308 for a few years, and it was a serviceable gun, but it shot no better than 1-1/2" at 100yds no matter what I fed it with.

I also owned 2 Remington 760's in 270, and neither would group better than 4" at 100 yds. For a short time I owned a pre-64 M70 in -06; it drove tacks, the recoil was easily handled, and I hated to put in the gun shop rack - but that's another story.

I think for a young shooter that a bolt action is a good rifle, because it is easier to keep track of from a safety standpoint. Bolt open = no fire, and the gun's innards are readily visible.

[HOWARD J]

If money is an issue--I would buy a used Winchester 94 in 30/30
I don't think you will find a used Marlin lever gun.
They are a great little brush gun out to 100/150 yds.
Easy to shoot & easy on the body.
Find ammo anywhere.
Later on you can advance to a better weapon
Have fun.......................

[THIRTYYACHTSIX]

I like the 30-06 hence the SN lol I bought mine years ago with no regrets, great knock down power with a wide range of grains to choose from. Plus where I live its an easy to find round for $20........ happy hunting

on a side note I know money is tight but remember if you save up and buy something nice it will last you forever and you'll spend way more money on the rounds you put through it

[TexasPatriot.308]

stevens 200 in 7mm-08, redfield scope. should be a reliable tackdriver for less than $500

[Arkansas Paul]

Of the rifle's you mentioned, I would go with the Savage. I also agree with looking at used stuff first. Check your classifieds in the local paper too.
Any of the calibers you mentioned will be fine for deer hunting. There's certainly nothing wrong with sticking by the old favorites like .30-06, .308, or .270. Personally I'm a fan of the '06, but any of them will work great.

[grtwhthntr]

I would pass on the 770, the Edge, and the Mossberg. A savage with accu-trigger is a great low priced rifle. I would also consider the marlin XS7 or XL7 (depending on caliber), and the best rifle in your price range (IMHO) is the T/C Venture. My personal favorite deer caliber is .308, but anything from .243 on up will work fine provided you can hit where you're aiming. I haven't shot a Marlin, but have heard awesome reviews both online and from friends who have them. I have experience with both the Venture and the Savage. Both are great guns with great triggers, but I like the Venture slightly more and it's actually cheaper than the Savage. It has a 1 MOA guarantee and a lifetime warranty. Hard to beat for the price.

[Youngbuckman2002@yahoo.c]

Howdy all, My options: Savage Edge, Mossberg ATR. Remington 770 was one of my options, but I've learned it's a POS. Additionally, what caliber should I go with? My shoulder isn't the concern, my accuracy is. Options: .30-06, .270, .308, .243, and 7mm-08 in the savage. I like the 7mm's ballistics, but ammunition isn't as plentiful and more expensive around here. Thank you all.
Don't know if you bought a rifle yet, but I just got the ATR in 243 3/4" 100 yd. Group factory ammo.No recoil. I wouldn't want to be on the business end of it. Kinda light for mulies ,eastern whitetails should take notice,but chances are their choice-making will be history by the time it becomes an issue to them. My son got the rem. 700 30/06 for $650. With a scope. Our friend got savage for $350 but had to replace the scope.put a Burris on it for $200. Does't shoot as good as the other two.my cousin won weather by vanguard 270 around 400. If you buy it. Throw a good scope on it with rings & base for another $250. Same price range shoots MOA . Get something that you can practice with. 30/06 ammo less than 243 but the 30/06 will go anywhere in North America by changing bullet weight. Just I love 308 family 243 7-08 308 I have an 06 Remington pump that I shoot Rem.125 reduced recoil thru that I would not hesitate to use on anything east of the Mississippi under 200 yards. Good shopping,good shooting.

[Youngbuckman2002@yahoo.c]

I like the versatility of the 06 but then I reload for it. Really all the calibers you mention are good. While the .243 will also double as a fine varmint cartridge it may be a bit small for large mulies. As for the rifle, I'm a solid believer in buying a good used rifle, you can generally pick up a good scoped mid grade rifle for less than a bare new economy grade rifle. There are plenty of nice lightly used Remingtons, Winchesters, Savages, and even Browning BAR MKIIs in the $4-600 range with decent glass.

I was in the market about a year ago and got a nice Winchester M70 .30-06 with a Leupold 3x9 for $425
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/smith357/armory/Model%2070/win70.jpg
You stole it for a fee!

[Youngbuckman2002@yahoo.c]

$500+ is past my 15 year old paycheck ;)
Used marlin 30/30

[stsimons]

I would look really hard at the Marlin XL/XS guns. I have an XS7 in 7mm-08 and for the money (paid about $300) it is, IMO, the best thing going in the budget rifle segment. The Savage Stevens 200 is also a solid buy, and it can grow with you. I have seen some amazing builds based on the basic Stevens action.

[winchester1886]

When I was a young man back in the70's my father in law told me he would take me deer hunting if I had a rifle. I didn't have a rifle so I ask around.I also had just started a family and I couldn't afford very much. An older gentleman told me if you can only own 1 rifle buy a 30-06.You choices are almost unlimited. a 55gr. from Remington 110,125,150,165,180.200.even 220gr. It will take almost anything in North America,

[country boy marksman]

You're 15? So am I! All of these choices are good/excellent, and I am buying a Winchester M70 in .308 soon. I have my own reasons (ammo availability, versatility of the cartridge, reliability of the new m70, etc.), but also because it is a very affordable and good choice as a deer rifle.

Marksman

[Dr T]

If you are 15 yrs old and have not done much shooting, get the 243. While the 308 and 30-06 are ultimately more versatile, if you have not done much shooting, you have a very good chance of developing a bad flinch if you start out with one of those. The 270 kicks more than the 243, but less than the 308. I would put it as a second choice if you are comfortable with your ability to handle recoil (If you are learning to shoot a high power rifle, you do not do yourself any favors by trying to be macho). You can't hunt if you can't hit the target.

I learned my lesson on this one nearly 40 years ago. I used a 30-06 when I was 15-18 and ended up flinching so badly I could not hit the broadside of a barn. I bought a 6 mm Rem when I was a sophomore in college in about 1971 and re-learned how to shoot.

I personally think that a Savage with an accu trigger is probably your best buy.

[country boy marksman]

my dad shoots a savage with an accutrigger and loves it! That's probably a better choice for a beginner. As to recoil, I suggested .308 because recoil doesn't bother me much, I'm used to it, but yes, a 243 would be better in the area of recoil!

[ruger700]

Academy Sports has the Remington 700 ADL in various calibers for 350 plus tax. Excellent rifle at an excellent price. I recommend the 308 due to the availabliliy of ammo and the excellent performance in the field.

[txhoghunter]

I would recommend a .270, .308, or a 30-06. All are great calibers with a ride range of ammunition available and are capable of taking most any North American big game with limited recoil (if you get one and it recoils too much throw a limbsaver on and you will be right back in your comfort zone).

The .243 is a great little round, but as has been stated, it will not hit quite as hard as the others.

If you put a limbsaver on the others they will recoil about the same as a .243

[Art Eatman]

The OP may well have made a decision by now...