History Channel?


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280PLUS
December 18, 2003, 09:20 AM
I have to question the validity of what we are shown on the History Channel

not that they are PURPOSELY feeding us baloney but possibly INADVERTANTLY by means of incomplete or unconfirmed research

e.g.

Marvels of Machinery (i believe is the title) Subject: "The Bullet"

shows some Marine guys loading rounds for the snipers and they are weighing each round and weighing the powder for consistency

The narrator claims that each round (projectile) weighs "142 GRAMS or 1/3 of an ounce" and then goes on to tell us that each bullets gets 20 GRAMS of powder.

see any math errors there?

these were looking like .30 cal rounds of some sort

i could see the scale and the thing was reading 142 Gr

so i'm assuming that the person doing the story read it or misheard it as Grams and not Grains and did not bother to confirm it before stating it as fact

obviously the person doing the story had zero knowledge on the subject.

but of course then you have to wonder,,,

what's the muzzle velocity / energy of a 142 gram bullet pushed by 20 grams of powder?

chances are the ratios are good so it should work?

would the muzzle velocity be nearly the same as it is for grains?

and whos holding the gun that shoots this "new" round and pulling the trigger?

:evil:

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TarpleyG
December 18, 2003, 10:31 AM
20 GRAMS
That'd be a crapload of powder alright. Maybe 20 GRAINS (more likely ~40 or so).

GT

Hkmp5sd
December 18, 2003, 10:34 AM
They make a fair number of errors, both technical and historical, on The History Channel, but overall they do a pretty good job.

Dave R
December 18, 2003, 10:52 AM
I'd blame that on the ignorance of the writer of that show, rather than a deliberate attempt to mis-inform.

Or just a stupid error.

280PLUS
December 18, 2003, 10:53 AM
it seems like their hearts are in the right place

i just thought it was a good example of not believing everything you hear

no matter where you hear it

:D

oh, i have no doubt it was unintentional...

Randy63
December 18, 2003, 11:10 AM
One of their shows about the evolution of hand tools stated that Black and Decker designed their first pistol gripped hand drill after being inspired by the design of the Colt .45 automatic pistol......at the same time they flashed a picture of a Colt revolver.

Randy

CZ-100
December 18, 2003, 11:37 AM
I have seen this same show, I believe in this segment they were talking about the hand loading of the rounds for the shooting team.

Mike Irwin
December 18, 2003, 11:43 AM
20 grains of powder sounds like much too small an amount.

But 20 grams of powder? That's 308 grains. Way too much.

Leatherneck
December 18, 2003, 11:47 AM
I think such errors creep into the production because of:
1. many hands involved,
2. not all know guns, and
3. insufficient QC of the final product.

TC
TFL Survivor

jsalcedo
December 18, 2003, 12:08 PM
I watch history channel gun related stuff with the sound off and just enjoy the eye candy.

seeker_two
December 18, 2003, 12:15 PM
But 20 grams of powder? That's 308 grains. Way too much.

Probably a starting load...:D

I saw the show, but completely missed the gaff. Gotta be more careful about that.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have some 142 gram bullets to pull...:uhoh:

http://www.treasurenet.com/photos/200204/0733.imagea.jpg

Mark Tyson
December 18, 2003, 12:25 PM
I think the narrator or writer for that segment made an error. Despite the errors, the History channel remains one of the only channels out there that doesn't treat guns like the evil spirits.

Oh yeah, and I love R Lee Ermey's Mail Call.

Mike Irwin
December 18, 2003, 12:31 PM
Seeker,

What is that, a 75mm?

RobW
December 18, 2003, 12:35 PM
They even manipulate! Everytime there is a show appearing Hitler or one of his henchmen, there is NOT ONE SINGLE German word in the speech they are showing. It's just a violent and crude sounding stammering, cut from half-words.

This people were so dangerous, there's no need for manipulation. They REALLY sound dangerous in their actual speech.

HankB
December 18, 2003, 12:37 PM
Is that the episode where they had Marines handloading ammo?

IIRC, they guys doing the loading were:

1) loading powder and bullets into brass cases with FIRED primers

2) Using a "powder" with very irregular grains and a light brown color - it looked more like oil dry or kitty litter than any powder I've ever seen.

This was probably due to overzealousness on "safety" while a film crew was in the loading room.

The grains/grams gaffe was probably just an honest mistake, common among the innumerate. I know of an instance myself in which a guy assembled a muzzleloading derringer from a kit and wondered why the recommended powder charge of 15 grains overflowed the muzzle. (Using grams rather than grains, he was off by a factor of about 15.432x)

Dave T
December 18, 2003, 02:58 PM
I noticed the "kitty litter" powder and the once fired primers. It may well have been a case of the safety Nazi/lawyers going overboard. Could be the same reasoning behind bullet weight and powder charges. If they quoted the actual numbers, and some idiot tried to load that in the wrong case or under the wrong conditions, they probably figured they would get sued for giving out unsafe information.

To give the History Channel its due, where else on television can you get a whole hour of guns in a positive light. Answer: no where!

cordex
December 18, 2003, 03:02 PM
Everytime there is a show appearing Hitler or one of his henchmen, there is NOT ONE SINGLE German word in the speech they are showing. It's just a violent and crude sounding stammering, cut from half-words.
Huh? They've featured large sections of speeches from Hitler with subtitles instead of voiceovers. Not sure where you're getting this.

jsalcedo
December 18, 2003, 03:12 PM
To give the History Channel its due, where else on television can you get a whole hour of guns in a positive light. Answer: no where!

Actually a few days a month are totally devoted to "tales of the gun" and gun related "modern marvels"

Azrael256
December 18, 2003, 03:50 PM
I'll give the history channel half credit for effort. It's pretty much the only channel (except espn) that I can watch for any length of time without being asonished at their stupidity.

For awhile, I watched and believed what they said, but then I started college (any guesses what my major is?) and I'm finding more and more inconsistencies and downright erroneous information on the history channel. All of the professors here absolutely hate the history channel. It is, however, a great way to get interested in a certain time period/event/person, and if you back that up with some serious reading from more reputable sources, you can get a straight story. I would not, however, believe anything they say without more research. If they tell me the sky is blue, I go outside to check.

280PLUS
December 18, 2003, 04:05 PM
yes,,,i too started to wonder if maybe the marines were treating the journalists like mushrooms

you know,,,

keeping them in the dark and feeding them manure

i thought maybe for some good old fashioned military fun :D

but the legal angle has validity too

plus i doubt they'd want the real numbers out there

i'm pretty sure i heard 20 but i know i heard grams on the powder charge

i thought it looked a little strange as well, didn't notice the primers though

i'll have to look if i see it again

RobW
December 18, 2003, 06:46 PM
cordex: I have NEVER seen a show on History Channel with subtitles. No matter what. U-boat commanders, Panzer-commanders etc. etc. they are ALL overlayed by the narrative voice. But, in this scenes, they are talking German before they are blended out for the narrator.

Anyway, the History Channel, Discovery Channel, and sometimes the Public Channel, are the only interesting channels (besides OLN when American Shooters is on).

Jammer Six
December 18, 2003, 07:29 PM
But 20 grams of powder? That's 308 grains. Way too much.

Well, isn't that why they call them "three-oh-eights"? :D

Hkmp5sd
December 18, 2003, 08:46 PM
I have NEVER seen a show on History Channel with subtitles
I have. It mostly occurs in shows using scenes of Nazi leaders giving speeches, but happens in other programs also. It is done to convey the emotions of the speaker, which you don't get with voice-overs.

seeker_two
December 18, 2003, 09:55 PM
Mike: I just borrowed that pic from Google.com. If you check the "Properties", it links to a pretty interesting site on treasure hunting.

Can't give you any more info than that, I'm afraid...:(

Gmac
December 18, 2003, 10:43 PM
This is the same episode with the "heat detecting bullet" that penetrated steel plate without expanding but destroyed a piece of meat without exiting. Call me a skeptic but I have a hard time with that one.:confused:

gundam007
December 18, 2003, 11:11 PM
there was also a story circulating on the net about some off duty personnel in columbia (IIRC) using this round and killing a man with an *** shot.. so maybe it aint bs

SteelyDan
December 19, 2003, 12:39 AM
I think my favorite boo-boo was a show on the real Con-Air, where US Marshalls transport prisoners across the country by air. The point they were making was that the marshalls had extensive background info on all of the prisoners they transported. The camera panned to one of the prisoner's data sheets, which stated that he "tries to kill LEOs," while the narrator explained that some of the prisoners have "strange astrological preferences."

Notwithstanding that and numerous other errors, it's still probably my favorite channel. There's nothing that comes close (at least on my cable provider) when it comes to showing "gun stuff."

Kcustom45
December 19, 2003, 12:57 AM
Not on the History Channel, but on TLC.

I was watching a show about the US Marshals and they were talking about arresting a guy who was considered very dangerous and they showed the team leader (?) saying that he was authorizing the use of MP's. They then cut to a scene that showed a guy loading up an M-16! As the narrator says "the MP-5 is the Marshal's long gun that is only used for very dangerous criminals.

BluesBear
December 19, 2003, 03:59 AM
Let's face it, not to many people still measure anything in grains anymore. Those of us who do are usually more technically inclined.

The History Channel narriator was not hired for his technical knowledge. He was hired because he had a clear, articulate, pleasant sounding voice.

Just like 99.44% of all Wal-Mart employees are hired, not because they are knowledgable but, simply because they show up.

Mike Irwin
December 19, 2003, 11:28 AM
History Channel also frequently subtitles even when the speaker is speaking English.

Good example is some of the shows on WW II where they're talking with former Japanese, Italian, German etc., soldiers whose English is accented to the point where it can be difficult to understand.

Mike Irwin
December 19, 2003, 11:30 AM
KCustom,

I saw that last night, too!

Just rolled my eyes and complained to my dog. :)

Mark Tyson
December 19, 2003, 02:03 PM
They should hire you guys as technical consultants for all gun related content! Hell, the History channel is already being taken over by grease monkeys and gun nuts anyway. A love of history, autos and guns goes hand in hand. Why not go all the way?

Kodiak AK
December 19, 2003, 03:13 PM
I don't it kind of blew my mind to watch two hours of programming last night that included footage of Saddoms capture. That is some fast production .

seadog
December 20, 2003, 02:03 AM
Tales of the Gun was doing a show about Beretta and showed a guy shooting a Walther PPK while they spoke of Beretta's small handguns....OOPS!

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