S&W M&P 15-22 or Sig 522


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bigswing5454
October 29, 2010, 03:03 PM
I'm looking to get a .22 rifle and have narrowed it down to two choices: the Smith & Wesson M&P 15-22 or the Sig 522. I'm looking for a rifle that is easy to clean and maintain, is durable and accurate. on top of that I want a rifle that can have accessories easily added to it, I want a vertical fore grip, a bi-pod, and an ACOG scope or something similar in magnification.

I'm looking for more than the one opinion of the guy behind the counter at my local store. So of these two, which one better fits my criteria? Or is there a different type that you believe fulfills my needs even better.

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nwilliams
October 29, 2010, 03:22 PM
There were four deciding factors that pushed me to go with the Sig 552 over the M&P15-22.

The first being the fact that I already had a Sig 556 and I thought a Sig 522 would make a good companion to it. Granted I have an AR-15 so owning an AR in .22 would make sense as well, but not enough to overrule the other three deciding factors in my decision making process.

The second reason I went with the 522 is that after holding both of them at the shop I liked the construction of the of the 522 better. The 15-22 felt very toy-like because both the upper and lower are plastic. The 522 has a metal upper on a plastic lower and just felt a lot more solid than the 15-22 and I liked the added weight. While the 522 still feels like a toy compared to the 556 it feels less toy-like than the 15-22 did.

The third factor in my decision was that I have heard lots of positive reviews on the 522, the general consensus is that people who own them really like them.

The final factor that pushed me to actually walking out with the 522 was the price, for $299 I just couldn't resist the temptation.

Here's mine.....
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb264/nwilliams27/Sig%20522/Sig522-1.jpg

CraigC
October 29, 2010, 03:41 PM
The S&W is a decent rifle for the money but due to its mostly polymer construction it just feels too light and cheap to me. IMHO, the Sig is a much better gun.

bigswing5454
October 29, 2010, 03:42 PM
Would you say your 522 is reliable, that is it can fire plenty of rounds without being cleaned, and how easy to clean is it? I've had limited experience with fire arms and I would prefer a gun that is easy to disassemble and clean. What kind of rounds have you found to work best with your gun?

redbullitt
October 29, 2010, 03:43 PM
I like my mp1522 very much. It is one of the newer, post fix ones btw. The sights are nice and the controls are almost the same as a regular Ar15. Trigger is good enough too. Mine has been totally reliable so far, provided I have the mags loaded correctly. I have probably put about 600 federal bulk pack rounds through it. Another plus for me was the factory threaded barrel.

As to it being light weight, yep, it is. I dont really see this as a problem, but for some it may be. The heft of a centerfire carbine is just not there. I just remember that this is not a centerfire carbine...

I havent gotten to shoot the SIG, but I did handle it. It felt nice, but I went with the SW since it runs almost just like my full size rifle. I think you would like either one. .22 Ar is a blast and really good practice.

smokeyandthebandit05
October 29, 2010, 03:48 PM
I have the 15-22 and it has been flawless. I also have one of the post fix models. Ive never had a problem with the mag loading, I just load it normally. I also have not had a problem with it being picky with ammo but I do mostly use the Federal bulk packs.

I would however love to handle the 522 some day

Quentin
October 29, 2010, 08:14 PM
Of your two choices I'd go with the M&P15-22 since it's functions much like an AR and I can't warm up to the SIG. When I was buying a few months ago I narrowed it down to the M&P15-22 and Colt/Walther M4 .22LR then chose the Colt. Never regretted it but the S&Ws I've fired are great rifles and I know I'd be happy with one. The Colt weighs 6 pounds just like a real M4 and that swayed me since the 15-22 was so light and felt cheap. It has been very reliable with Federal Value Pack 36gr as is the 15-22. They both hate Remington Golden Bullet. Whatever you get you'll find it likes some ammo and hates others. The Smith is easier to clean and maintain but you might take a second look at the Colt while you're handling rifles...

o Unforgiven o
October 29, 2010, 08:37 PM
Both are great guns but as far as simplicity the operation and cleaning will be very easy to a new shooter.

I would however strongly advise you to leave the colt alone, it is a very proprietary design and many things on it are not funtioning and many parts cannot be replaced with aftermarket upgrades. The sig and colt are also much heavier than the 15-22, but the colt really feels like a cheap hunk of metal.

Glocked-N-Loaded
October 29, 2010, 09:05 PM
I went with the Sig 522 and am ridiculously glad I did. I have never, ever, had the first malfunction, either firearm related or ammo related. It runs and runs and runs. Feels solid, tucks into your shoulder nicely, optics mount lower on it, takes standard Ar type .22 mags such as Black Dog, Black Dog also makes a 50 round drum that functions flawlessly with the Sig, loads of fun. S&W has a proprietary mag, stupid stupid decision on S&W's part. The Sig is just as much as the S&W, maybe cheaper in some outlets and vice-versa.

Whatever you get you'll find it likes some ammo and hates others.Maybe with a S&W or Colt, not true of my Sig 522. It eats Remington, Federal, CCI, Aguila, Wolf match, whatever... I wouldn't hesitate to load the mag with a different brand of bullet every round, it WILL NOT fail. 1500 rounds, 3 cleanings, pulled the FP, cleaned it and oiled it lightly as well as the FP channel and life is good! I got the SWAT model with the quad rail and it's simply a dream. I'm sure the S&W is a fine firearm, but I would put my Sig against it round for round ANY day. NutnFancy has a slick 45 minute review of the Sig 522 on youtube, check it out, he actually comments on the Sig vs the S&W.

Uncle Mike
October 29, 2010, 09:13 PM
The only thing bad about the 522 is the flimsy, wobbling, floppy, shaky folding stock, if you can live with that, your good to go with a 522.

wally
October 29, 2010, 09:20 PM
The only thing bad about the 522 is the flimsy, wobbling, floppy, shaky folding stock Mine is no worse that the run of the mill factory M4-gery stock.

My wife really like it, and I really like that it takes the same mags as my Spike's Tactical dedicated .22lr AR upper.

JDMorris
October 29, 2010, 09:42 PM
Ruger 10/22 or Marlin Model 60. I dont buy in to all this tactical .22 stuff.
conversion kits are the only exception. I get to try the New one out for dad's ar tomorrow. but my 60 will be better.

Quentin
October 29, 2010, 09:45 PM
Both are great guns but as far as simplicity the operation and cleaning will be very easy to a new shooter.

I would however strongly advise you to leave the colt alone, it is a very proprietary design and many things on it are not funtioning and many parts cannot be replaced with aftermarket upgrades. The sig and colt are also much heavier than the 15-22, but the colt really feels like a cheap hunk of metal.

All three of these rifles are proprietary, Unforgiven. Not one of them is that close to their 5.56 siblings, you can't put a real centerfire upper on these lowers though the S&W lower does at least use a standard AR FCG. If you want something less proprietary buy a real AR lower then put on a dedicated .22 upper.

As far as the Colt, do you own one? If not you might want to try one out as it's nothing like you said - it feels solid not cheap. As far as non-functioning parts, well the external BHO is for show but an internal one still does the job. The forward assist and ejection port cover also are for show but at least they are there unlike the S&W and SIG. The Colt does look like an M4.

Glocked-N-Loaded
October 29, 2010, 10:08 PM
The only thing bad about the 522 is the flimsy, wobbling, floppy, shaky folding stock, if you can live with that, your good to go with a 522
Not my experience at all either. Mine locks up pretty tight, no more slop than my 6920.

viking499
October 29, 2010, 11:45 PM
My 522 runs like a sewing machine. Like it a lot better than my friends 15-22.

nwilliams
October 30, 2010, 12:09 AM
Would you say your 522 is reliable, that is it can fire plenty of rounds without being cleaned, and how easy to clean is it? I've had limited experience with fire arms and I would prefer a gun that is easy to disassemble and clean. What kind of rounds have you found to work best with your gun?

The 522 is extremely easy to clean, I can take it apart in seconds. So far I've only taken it out once and I put 550 rounds of Rem Golden Bullet HP through it in about an hour. The gun ran like a champ but there were a few times when a round didn't go off and I had eject it but that was probably a result of the ammo and not the gun and that only happened a couple times.

The only real problem I encountered was that I was short on mags, having only one mag for this gun is not enough!

InkEd
October 30, 2010, 12:20 AM
I have a 556 and it's great. Handled the 552 and it felt very similar and well made. The M&P15-22 is a good rifle BUT as others have mentioned it feels toy-like because it is almost entirely polymer. (Plus, I don't like the AR platform.)

I would suggest you look at the GSG-5 Carbine as well. IMHO the best of all the lookalike .22 rifles.

o Unforgiven o
October 30, 2010, 05:15 AM
All three of these rifles are proprietary, Unforgiven. Not one of them is that close to their 5.56 siblings, you can't put a real centerfire upper on these lowers though the S&W lower does at least use a standard AR FCG. If you want something less proprietary buy a real AR lower then put on a dedicated .22 upper.

As far as the Colt, do you own one? If not you might want to try one out as it's nothing like you said - it feels solid not cheap. As far as non-functioning parts, well the external BHO is for show but an internal one still does the job. The forward assist and ejection port cover also are for show but at least they are there unlike the S&W and SIG. The Colt does look like an M4.
I am happy you like yours so much and more power to ya'. IMHO (and in my hands), it feels like a cheap, low quality rifle. I think it is subpar in quality, reliability, design and function. I do have trigger time behind it and that is where I founded my opinions, as I am sure you did as well. I will say again that it is a step below the two other rifles and recommend them both over it highly. YMMV :)

Storm
October 30, 2010, 12:23 PM
Quote:
The only thing bad about the 522 is the flimsy, wobbling, floppy, shaky folding stock

Mine is no worse that the run of the mill factory M4-gery stock.

If you find that there is a loose fit at the folding joint all you need to do is take a narrow piece of tread tap and stick it to the one horizontal section of flat plastic on the receiver side and any wobble from that cause will be fixed.

bigswing5454
November 1, 2010, 02:41 PM
In looking around on the internet, it seems like it is harder to get the accessories I want for the Sig 522, they are a bi-pod or fore-grip, for those of you that own the Sig, let me know if that's true or false.

CraigC
November 1, 2010, 02:53 PM
You can put a bipod on anything. Far as I know, the new 522's come with a set of forend rails for attaching whatever accessories you desire. If not, they are available.

Hizzie
November 1, 2010, 04:22 PM
The Sig 522 felt cheap to me. Especially when the little piece that the stock snaps on to when folded came out of the frame when I unfolded the stock. The lack of sights was also a consideration. I have had very few issues with my S&W 15-22 and the early issues were ammo related. I am happy with the purchase.

bjl333
November 1, 2010, 04:32 PM
I have a Sig522 and I really enjoy that rifle. I don't have the S&W but they feel too light for me.

hemiram
November 1, 2010, 07:15 PM
I shot both the 522 and the 15-22 and I bought a 15-22, I just liked it better. Both shot fine, but the lack of sights on the 522 kind of annoyed me, and I got a free folding foregrip tossed into the deal for $325.

nwilliams
November 1, 2010, 09:02 PM
The Sig 522 felt cheap to me. Especially when the little piece that the stock snaps on to when folded came out of the frame when I unfolded the stock.
That's a common problem with both the 522 and 556 because the folding stocks are the same on both. Mine hasn't had that problem yet but I hear it's an easy fix if it does happen.

I will add that as much as I love the 522 I can't rule out the possibility of owning a 15-22 as well some day. I think having a Sig 522, GSG-5 and S&W 15-22 would make a fun little group of guns to have for those days when you feel like having a cheap day at the range.

CraigC
November 1, 2010, 09:14 PM
I think having a Sig 522, GSG-5 and S&W 15-22 would make a fun little group of guns to have for those days when you feel like having a cheap day at the range.
Agreed! This recent proliferation of "tactical" rimfires has more people buying black rifles than would normally have any interest in them. Myself included. I want one of each!

Techvt
November 2, 2010, 10:06 AM
Take a look at Excel Arms X-22r (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=551063) if you want an alternative...I love mine.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=551063

jsimmons
November 2, 2010, 03:21 PM
I traded a CZ-452 Style for a NIB M&P15-22. It's had 1500 rounds put through it without a problem. Haven't had any optics on it yet, but with CCI Mini-Mags and Federal Auto Match, I was shooting 3-inch groups at 50 yards offhand without a sling. I ordered a cantilever mount for a 8.5-25x50 scope to see how good it really shoots.

The butt stock was a little loose, so I used some aluminum tape on the faux buffer tube and it tightened the stock right up. No wiggle at all, now.

As far as being like a "standard" AR, it certainly isn't, and here are some of the reasons why:

0) The upper won't go on a standard AR lower

1) The buffer tube is not a real buffer tube

2) The hole for the rear takedown spring/detent is at the bottom of the lower behind the trigger guard. This is probably because of the buffer tube being fake and the gun not needing an endplate, so there's nothing to retain the takedown pin spring.

3) The barrel/barrel nut is not the same as an AR-15.

4) The barrel cannot accept a gas-block type of front sight because it's not big enough. It's .685, and the AR profile is .750 inches.

5) You have to buy the right version of the rifle to get a threaded barrel that accepts a flash suppressor. IMHO, this is complete unneccessary (a .22 doesn't need a flash suppressor) but hey, if it's looks you're after, you have to weight that decision.

6) The handguard is not a standard AR-15 handguard, and your only option if you want one is to change the barrel nut, and then you can buy the desired AR-15 floating handguard.

7) Pistol grips with a beavertail (like the Magpul MOE grip) don't exactly match up well to the back of the lower, and you'll have a slight gap there as a result.

The bolt will lock back on when firing the last round from a magazine, and the bolt release actually performs like an AR-15 bolt release. I don't think the Colt has the same functionality, and I'm not sure about the Sig at all.

It was designed and intended to be light, and not having a heavy bolt, a recoil buffer and a lighter barrel go along way to that end. The rifle certainly costs less than buying a dedicated upper for an AR-15 lower, and when you stop and consider that the rifle certainly isn't a match-grade rifle (nor is it intended to be), it's a fine representation of the AR platform, and it seems that S&W has finally gotten a grip on their reliability issues.

As far as what ammo it "likes", I can tell you from experieince that EVERY .22 rifle - even rifles of the same model/manufacturer - has a different preferred diet. I've shot CCI MiniMags and Federal Auto Match though mine without any probolems, but I have some bulk 550, Wolf Target, a couple of types of Ely, and others that I can try.

I believe that the rate of twist on the 15-22 is 1:14, so this means that lighter bullets (30-40 grain) will likely work the best in the rifle. Anything much heavier will not stabilize as well. Another factor to consider is the speed of the bullet. S&W recommends not using subsonic bullets because they don't produce enough gas to work the action correctly.

My advice is high-velocity (1200-1300 FPS) stuff like CCI MiniMags at around 40 grains, or hyper-velocity (1400 FPS) like CCI Stingers, or even better, the CCI Velocitor. I'm not neccesarily a CCI advocate, but next to Federal, they are pretty much the most recognizable and easy-to-find brand out there, and the bullet velocities are well published, and I get really good results from them, regardless of what rifle I'm shooting. (I also have a Henry H001T and a CZ-452 Silhouette.)

My overall impression of the 15-22 is that for what it is (and what it isn't), it's certainly an adequate .22 rifle and if current interest is any inidcation, we can probably expect to see custom barrels being made for them (18 to 22-inch, and with faster twist rates) sometime in the not-too-distant future.

I personally like the rifle.

CAS700850
November 4, 2010, 03:38 PM
I'm considering one of these rifles, and leaning towards the 15-22 right now. I like that it's light weight, which will make it easier to pack around if/when I take it hiking/backpacking with me. The 522 is second for the cool looks, and the fact that it folds up smaller. The Colt is a distant third place, as I haven;t read much good about one yet, and they seem more expensive in my part of the world.

My question: I agree that a flash suppressor is kind of a wast on a .22, but it looks good. I'm interested in adding a false suppressor for barrel weight and looks. Colt/Umarex offers one, but I don't know if it has teh same threading as either the 15-22 or 522. Anyone know?

o Unforgiven o
November 4, 2010, 03:51 PM
My question: I agree that a flash suppressor is kind of a wast on a .22, but it looks good. I'm interested in adding a false suppressor for barrel weight and looks. Colt/Umarex offers one, but I don't know if it has teh same threading as either the 15-22 or 522. Anyone know?


It uses standard 1/2 x 28 threads and I am sure that Colt/Umarex lists the thread specs for the mock suppressor.

jackinil
November 4, 2010, 08:50 PM
I went with the 15-22. Didn't like that the SIG came with no sights plus it cost more . Plus,I have an AR in .223 and it's somewhat close in feel and function. The target is from my first time out with the 15-2 with a Centerpoint Red Dot.
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e260/jackinil/IMG_1508-1.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e260/jackinil/IMG_1516.jpg

briang2ad
November 4, 2010, 09:19 PM
If your ejector is bent in correctly toward the centerline (a 5 minute job if it isn't) it will run like a Honda.

Yes - it is light, but that means it will give you a little 'pop' of recoil closer to an AR than an upper would.

Function is exactly the same as the M4. The rail is cool. The sights are decent.

It's excellent.

Kynoch
February 8, 2011, 05:50 PM
My use for a tactical .22 is probably different then most here -- I actually shoot it in competitive metal target matches. I have shot a Ruger 10/22 and a Remington Nylon 66 for quite a while.

After watching what my competitors' shoot and taking turns on their firearms, it's not even close -- the M&P 15-22. The light weight is a huge advantage. Yet it's clear that the M&P can take very heavy use for an extended period of time.

The 522 looks very cool but it's needlessly bloated, I don't care for its short LOP and I don't see it being as bulletproof as an M&P over the long run.

henschman
February 9, 2011, 12:50 AM
M&P 15's have a nasty habit of spitting out the extractor. I wouldn't get one just based on how many of them I have seen go down on the Appleseed firing line because of this. One fellow instructor has had it happen 3 times on his. They supposedly upgraded it with a brand new bolt and their supposedly upgraded design, but it spit out the extractor again after he got it back. I would say he just got a lemon, if it weren't for the fact that I have seen 2 other rifles do the same thing... which accounts for all of the M&P 15/22s that I have any experience with.

I am a bigger fan of the dedicated upper, myself.

Kynoch
February 14, 2011, 10:31 PM
I laid an new M&P 15 for $500.00 and a new stainless Ruger 10/22 for $250.00 together side by side at a shop today. DOUBLE! Neither price is tight but this is ridiculous. Those tactical .22's really aren't justified in terms of function...

Loggerlee
March 1, 2011, 12:10 AM
Kynoch,they're not,but if function was all it were about we'd all be shooting Mod 60s
I'm going to get one or the other,leaning 15-22 at the moment,it's for my little girl,she's never going to make 5'8" so she'd better get used to something she can carry.

lloydkristmas
March 1, 2011, 12:17 AM
http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac40/FNHKSIG/M42.jpg

happygeek
March 1, 2011, 03:18 AM
I laid an new M&P 15 for $500.00 and a new stainless Ruger 10/22 for $250.00 together side by side at a shop today. DOUBLE! Neither price is tight but this is ridiculous. Those tactical .22's really aren't justified in terms of function...


If $500 is the best you can get a M&P 22 for you might as well give CMMG's 22LR a look at: http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/item/QUEBEC-.22-Evolution-Rifle-w-Low-Profile-FSB-1641

I've put about 9,000 rounds through a pair of CMMG 22LR uppers and been pretty happy with them. Mine are on a RRA lower though, can't speak as to the quality of the lower CMMG is pairing with their upper for $500.

wally
March 1, 2011, 02:25 PM
I laid an new M&P 15 for $500.00 and a new stainless Ruger 10/22 for $250.00 together side by side at a shop today. DOUBLE! Neither price is tight but this is ridiculous.

Paid $300+tax for my Wife's SIG522 at a local gun show, since it helps get her out shooting with me its cheap at twice the price! She never could warm up to my 10/22, especially the magazine release.


My advice is high-velocity (1200-1300 FPS) stuff like CCI MiniMags at around 40 grains, or hyper-velocity (1400 FPS) like CCI Stingers, or even better, the CCI Velocitor.

Am I alone in thinking a .22lr that requires ammo that costs nearly as much a the cheapest 9mm ammo does is not a good deal?

My Spikes Tactical dedicated upper (get to use my "real" AR trigger) and the Wife's SIG522 function fine with the Federal bulk pack from Walmart -- Spike's web site says this is the ammo they test with before shipping! They all should do this, save on their costs, and I'd never be happy with a .22lr gun that requires premium priced .22 ammo to work.

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