Senators who have voted to ban .30-30 ammo


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Bartholomew Roberts
October 29, 2010, 11:19 PM
In 2004, Ted Kennedy stood on the floor of the Senate and demanded a ban on .30-30 hunting ammunition by name saying:

"Another rifle caliber, the 30.30 caliber, was responsible for penetrating three officers' armor and killing them in 1993, 1996, and 2002. This ammunition is also capable of puncturing light-armored vehicles, ballistic or armored glass, armored limousines, even a 600-pound safe with 600 pounds of safe armor plating.

It is outrageous and unconscionable that such ammunition continues to be sold in the United States of America." Source: (Congressional Record, February 26, 2004, page S1634)

The following Senators voted YES for Sen. Kennedy's proposal (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=108&session=2&vote=00028). The ones in bold are still in office as of 2010.

YEAs ---34
Akaka (D-HI)
Bayh (D-IN) (retiring this term)
Biden (D-DE) As VP casts tie-breaking vote in Senate
Boxer (D-CA)
Byrd (D-WV)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Carper (D-DE)
Chafee (R-RI)
Clinton (D-NY)
Corzine (D-NJ)
Dayton (D-MN)
Dodd (D-CT) (retiring this term)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feingold (D-WI)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Graham (D-FL)
Harkin (D-IA)
Hollings (D-SC)
Inouye (D-HI)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kerry (D-MA)
Kohl (D-WI)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Levin (D-MI)
Lieberman (D-CT)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murray (D-WA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Reed (D-RI)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Schumer (D-NY)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Wyden (D-OR)

Of the above Senators, the following are up for re-election in November and are rated as less than "safe" by Real Clear Politics (from least likely to lose to most likely to lose (clicking on link will take you to their opponents website):

Wyden D-OR (http://www.huffmanforsenate.com/), Boxer D-CA (http://www.carlyforca.com/), Murray D-WA (http://www.dinorossi.com/an-important-message-from-dino/), Feingold WI-D (http://www.ronjohnsonforsenate.com/redirect/splash.html)

Just a reminder of all the Senators who think that banning .30-30 ammo is A-OK and who have voted to do so. By my count, that is still way too many in office. This November will be a good chance to work a little more on that list!

Let's donate money to opponents and where we can, vote these people out of office.

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Nematocyst
October 29, 2010, 11:24 PM
Wow.

Nice to see my current state is not on that list.
Not registered to vote here; not sure I'll be here long.

Nomadic is a way of life....

o Unforgiven o
October 29, 2010, 11:29 PM
Wow.

Nice to see my current state is not on that list.

Nomadic is a way of life....
They have it all wrong, they need to ban body armor, safes, armored vehicles and tanks so there will be no armor to penetrate. :rolleyes:

Not surprised to see Graham is not still in office, us Floridians like our gun's. ;)

Bartholomew Roberts
October 29, 2010, 11:30 PM
Not surprised to see Graham is not still in office, us Floridians like our gun's.

Well, the job is halfway done. Now just show Nelson the door.

justgoto
October 29, 2010, 11:48 PM
It displays how clueless these people are.

Cesiumsponge
October 30, 2010, 01:35 AM
Another reason to vote out Murray. The polls have been going for weeks and the incumbent and challenger are literally neck-to-neck between Murray and Rossi. I suspect a lot of national focus will come down to our state as it might tip the balance of Congress.

I do question what would happen if the race does end up being close once all the ballots are counted (our state switched to an all mail-in system so they'll take a few days to trickle in after election day). Last time Rossi ran for governor against the incumbent, he won. However the incumbent pushed two separate recounts until results from "mysteriously discovered missing ballots" tipped in her favor, then claimed victory with no more recounts, and stole the governor's office. :scrutiny:

Zoogster
October 30, 2010, 02:30 AM
You have to show the weapon this cartridge was designed for in 1894!


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4a/Winchester_Model_1894.jpg


It was an attempt to ban virtually all rifle calibers.
Brazil has done this under basically the same tactic.


Nevermind that the original intent of the 2nd Amendment is completely defeated if tyranny can deploy agents with armor that can defeat the arms held by the citizenry.

Cearbhall
October 30, 2010, 02:46 AM
Cesiumsponge: A Cali Bay Area newspaper just last week had an article about recounts already being planned. Maybe they know something I don't.

Even though I have no love for Boxer's opponent, I'll be voting against Boxer.

71Commander
October 30, 2010, 08:20 AM
Come Tuesday, that list will be reduced by one.:)

tasco 74
October 30, 2010, 12:29 PM
TERM LIMITS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! this was GOVERNMENT never set up to be a CAREER.........................................

ReadyontheRight
October 30, 2010, 01:06 PM
Dayton (D-MN)

Please note that gun-grabbing Mark Dayton is running for Governor of Minnesota.

ReadyontheRight
October 30, 2010, 01:09 PM
Feingold (D-WI)

My Wisconsin neighbors: Please vote anti-gun Feingold OUT!

And we promise to keep Favre (love him!/hate him!) out of a Packer uniform until his Hall of Fame induction.

jimmyraythomason
October 30, 2010, 01:19 PM
I noticed the only Republican in the criminal line-up is no longer in office. Did this vote hasten his departure/removal?

zoom6zoom
October 30, 2010, 01:55 PM
Jimmy, Chaffee was a RINO of the worst order. He's another one who "inherited" his seat, being appointed after his father died. After losing his seat to a Democrat, he became an Independent and I believe is currently running for Governor.

Bartholomew Roberts
October 30, 2010, 02:50 PM
Yes, Chaffee is now running for Governor of RI in this election. He isn't in the Senate anymore; but he isn't gone either. However, he is no longer a part of the Republican party. I don't know if that was their good decision or his though. I suspect his.

jimmyraythomason
October 30, 2010, 02:54 PM
I KNOW I'm not the only one to notice that they are all (except for the rino) from the same party. I guess pointing out that fact will be too political for discussion though.

Zoogster
October 30, 2010, 03:52 PM
I KNOW I'm not the only one to notice that they are all (except for the rino) from the same party. I guess pointing out that fact will be too political for discussion though.

There is a trick in Congress though, seen more on well known controversial issues.
In the Senate especially where there is only 100 total members most of them know in detail the positions of other senators. They (or more accurately their aides that do that for them) can also reference their known positions on certain topics.

Most of them also know what issues will be voted on in a given day well in advance. The result is that many of them know who is voting for what and the likely result of the vote on many issues days before the actual vote.
What some will do is only vote for something unpopular if it is likely to actually pass, and abstain from voting or vote in line with what their constituents won't punish them for if it has no chance of passing.

The result is something that really would have only failed by a few votes goes into official record as failing by many more votes because of all the individuals who abstain or vote contrary to how they would have if their vote actually would have changed the outcome.

These politicians can then cite not having voted for something they would have voted for if it was close to passing. For example a Southern Democrat won't vote for some gun control they may have if it was closer to passing and their vote was needed. As a result they take no local heat from their constituents without really



What all of this means is that the official voting record on various issues is not always as clear is it may appear.

For example, while I don't know to what extent that applies in this case, let us look at the numbers
13 democrats voted nay. 63 total voted nay. If you remove the 13 you still have a solid 50 nays. Meaning they couldn't have gotten anywhere anyways.

Republicans of course do the same thing on certain issues, voting for the more popular choice or abstaining if their vote won't make a difference to keep their record a certain way. They might take the tarnish if their vote actually will decide the outcome, but vote in the way that gives the best citable record if it won't.
Like certain Republicans against guns as individuals may vote against gun control, unless it is on the verge of passing at which point they may vote for it.
Instead of going down as voting for something that didn't pass anyways they only take the position unpopular with their party if their individual vote will decide the outcome. (Unless the thing that won't pass is important enough to their constituents to have on their record for re-election as having voted for.)



So you can only judge the politicians and hold them accountable by what they have done, but keep individual votes in context. They often don't tell the whole story.
If word got out that X and Y, people known to have a staunch position on an issue were changing their positions, and Z was changing their position because X agreed to vote the way Z wanted on another piece of legislation in a private meeting if Z votes how they want, then an additional large number of individuals can instantly change their votes as a block when they see the issue will actually be close enough to be decided by their votes.

How certain individuals vote can change dramatically if their vote will actually be a deciding factor.

jimmyraythomason
October 30, 2010, 03:57 PM
Regardless of how they play the game ,it is only their votes they actually cast that matter.

augustino
October 30, 2010, 09:52 PM
Guns, like any other TOOLS are precisely that, a TOOL.
Now take for instance the ball peen hammer. Fantastic TOOL in the hands of many a craftsmen. But the ball peen hammer is also quite popular among some very well known motorcycle enthusiasts. Well actually a motorcycle gang. They wear the ball peen hammer through their belts and use it as a fierce WEAPON. And with this WEAPON they have killed and maimed many in fights and brutal attacks.
So with the brightest and the best of the best serving as our elected officials I'm quite surprised that the ball peen hammer hasn't yet been banned! In fact I suggest that Americans run out and buy any/all ball peen hammers because based on their track record our elected officials may soon ban this TOOL uhhh I mean WEAPON since it's responsible for so much pain, suffering and death.
I am so sick & tired of illogical thinkers trying to cure the cold by killing off the people that I can't help but feel these folks are just plain crazy. The ball peen doesn't do the crime the person does. The gun doesn't shoot people the criminal that our system let's lose time after time again and again is the one responsible for doing the crime. If they didn't have this 30 30 they would go with the 7.63X39 or the 40 caliber or whatever it was they culd get their hands on.

ljnowell
October 30, 2010, 10:11 PM
Regardless of why they voted that way, they did. Anyone that owns a gun and votes for those people doesnt deserve to own that gun. I'll take all the heat anyone wants to heap on me for saying that, because its true.

robertbartsc
November 2, 2010, 11:46 AM
Chuck Schumer from NY is on the ballot November 2nd.

ilmonster
November 3, 2010, 09:53 AM
As of last night, Feingold...gone!

Bartholomew Roberts
November 3, 2010, 10:21 AM
Yup, Feingold is gone. We are standing by to see if Murray gets the boot. It appears to be really close though and it could be months before we know. Looks like it will be 2016 before we get another chance at Wyden and Boxer.

ColdChili
November 3, 2010, 10:57 AM
Hey ReadyontheRight, you better keep your promise:

And we promise to keep Favre (love him!/hate him!) out of a Packer uniform until his Hall of Fame induction.

Kernel
November 3, 2010, 10:33 PM
As of last night, Feingold...gone!

Next up: Kohl :barf: :barf: :barf: :fire:

Tommygunn
November 3, 2010, 11:21 PM
Gee.... If they are so afraid of the .30-30 round .... why not ban the .30-'06? Or the 7mm. Magnum?
There's a pretty good list of rifle rounds that are more powerful than the 115 year old .30-30 round.

Zoogster
November 4, 2010, 02:25 AM
Gee.... If they are so afraid of the .30-30 round .... why not ban the .30-'06? Or the 7mm. Magnum?
There's a pretty good list of rifle rounds that are more powerful than the 115 year old .30-30 round.


That was the intended plan with the legislation.
All rounds that could penetrate low level soft body armor commonly worn by police officer were to be banned.
Of course this includes virtually all centerfire rifle rounds and many handgun rounds.


That was the devious plan by the anti-gun author and a couple other intelligent devious anti-gunners in power.
To convince other more naive individuals to pass a ban on most ammo thinking that they were protecting police officers from a limited and unique danger. Of course many who knew better could also play dumb and act naive as well.

They did succeed in banning commercial manufacture and sales of handgun rounds (and the ATF since many rifle rounds because they are chambered in some handgun somewhere) made out of most common metals as "armor piercing" in the 80s, which probably inspired the new attempt.
THe 80s legislation limits what metals can be used to create highly affordable budget or specialty ammunition today even when they have nothing to do with increased penetration.
It also keeps ammunition in the stone age. Creating ammunition with tiny moving parts for example is not practical without using something like steel or iron.

cyclopsshooter
November 4, 2010, 02:40 AM
so, i shouldn't have voted for patty murray?

INMY01TA
November 16, 2010, 07:50 PM
No surprise to me at all Barbara Mikulski is on that list. I don't think any piece of gun control legislation has ever passed in front of her she didn't sign.

Pyro
November 17, 2010, 12:59 PM
It is outrageous and unconscionable that such ammunition continues to be sold in the United States of America."
Has he ever heard of 7.62x25 Tok?
Pistol ammo, cheap surplus pistol ammo (A Tok copy ain't much either).

hirundo82
November 17, 2010, 01:47 PM
Has he ever heard of 7.62x25 Tok?
Pistol ammo, cheap surplus pistol ammo (A Tok copy ain't much either).

Let's hope it never comes to their attention. Current federal law defines "armor-piercing ammunition" by the material it is made from (tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium) and its ability to be used in a handgun.

If it were to be changed to outlaw any ammunition that is capable of piercing soft body armor and capable of being chambered in a handgun, that could include virtually all rifle calibers since virtually any caliber you can think of is available in something the federal government calls a handgun (eg some of the Thompson Center products).

lloveless
November 18, 2010, 10:54 AM
I am presuming the initiative to ban 30/30 ammo failed since I can still find it on the shelves? Vote the BUMS out.
ll

benEzra
November 20, 2010, 05:28 PM
I am presuming the initiative to ban 30/30 ammo failed since I can still find it on the shelves?
Yes. This incident occurred in 2004, and the amendment to the bill in question was soundly rejected.

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