[denvershepherd]

Hello,

My wife and I are going away for 3 days and we are having a dog sitter (we have known her for years) coming over to stay at our house with the whole time with the dogs. I have an m4, shotgun, .45, .40 that I am going to lock up in the safe while we are going but I was going to leave the 9mm out on the night stand for the sitter in the one in a million chance she needs it. She doesn't own a gun but has shot with us many times so she is very familiar with it. My wife thinks this is a mistake but I don't see anything wrong with it. Am I making a mistake in making the gun available to the sitter while she is here? It is just such a comfort for me knowing it is there when I'm sleeping, I just figured she would like it too. We have not offered it to her yet and my wife says we should just lock them all up. What do you guys think?

Thanks!!!

[woodsoup]

Lock it up.

[Old Shooter]

You are not going to be in control of this weapon. How old is this sitter? How long have you known her? Is anyone of her friends likely to come over while you are away (either invited or just to drop in to say hello)? What is the neighborhood like, urban, rural, city?

Personally, I wouldn't leave a gun out and available like that, lock them all up.

All it would take is for some unforseen incident to occur while you are away and you might be paying someone a lot of money for the rest of their life.

If you feel it is that much of a risk and you feel uncomfortable with an unarmed sitter in the house why not just check the dogs into a kennel for the three days? Might be a lot cheaper in the long run.

[Ed4032]

Yeah lock it up

[BCRider]

If your sitter believes she would be better protected with a gun then she would have her own and be asking you if it were OK to bring it along. Or if she has some permits or whatever else is needed to legally own a gun for your state but doesn't have her own. From that basis you and her could discuss options. But otherwise I'd say your liability is to lock 'em up as your guns are YOUR responsibility.

[denvershepherd]

You are not going to be in control of this weapon. How old is this sitter? How long have you known her? Is anyone of her friends likely to come over while you are away (either invited or just to drop in to say hello)? What is the neighborhood like, urban, rural, city?

Personally, I wouldn't leave a gun out and available like that, lock them all up.

All it would take is for some unforseen incident to occur while you are away and you might be paying someone a lot of money for the rest of their life.

If you feel it is that much of a risk and you feel uncomfortable with an unarmed sitter in the house why not just check the dogs into a kennel for the three days? Might be a lot cheaper in the long run.
She is 35. We have known her for 10 years. She wont be bringing anyone over. It's right on the edge of a major city. We have been broke into before but not since we got the German shepherd. Hmmmm. You make a good point about an accident happening. I'm starting to lean towards locking them all up now. I just hate the thought of her being helpless in the off chance someone breaks in. But the chances of an accident are probably higher than a break in???

[denvershepherd]

If your sitter believes she would be better protected with a gun then she would have her own and be asking you if it were OK to bring it along. Or if she has some permits or whatever else is needed to legally own a gun for your state but doesn't have her own. From that basis you and her could discuss options. But otherwise I'd say your liability is to lock 'em up as your guns are YOUR responsibility.
Good point BCRider

[kingpin008]

I'd lock it up. I have plenty of friends who I consider safe and competent with guns, but I'm not comfortable leaving one out for them, bad neighborhood or no.

Also, what about the times when she won't be in the house? Burglars are very savvy, and know to watch for when someone is home vs. away. All it'd take is a quick walk around the block w/ the dogs for someone to break in, snatch the gun, and be gone.

Your heart is in the right place, but it's not worth the risk, IMHO.

[Old krow]

I agree with the majority. Lock it up. I agree that if she were concerned about it she'd have her own.

I just hate the thought of her being helpless in the off chance someone breaks in. But the chances of an accident are probably higher than a break in???

I hate the thought of her being helpless anytime and anywhere.

[Furncliff]

Lock it up!

[russ69]

Just like the booze, bring her own!

Thanx, Russ

[oneounceload]

You have a German Shepherd - she isn't defenseless at all - in fact a good dog that size is one of the best deterrents and safety systems going

[bigfatdave]

She's a big girl, she can bring her own shootin' irons.

If she needs a ride to the gun shop, then go for it, otherwise lock it up and disable them all.

[denvershepherd]

You have a German Shepherd - she isn't defenseless at all - in fact a good dog that size is one of the best deterrents and safety systems going
Very true about the shepherd. He is VERY protective of the home but still no match for a firearm should someone decide to enter. You have all convinced me that the best thing to do is lock up ALL the firearms. My wife is grinning at me right now (that's what she told me from the beginning). Thanks for letting me use the 'ask the audience' lifeline.


Be safe.

[mcdonl]

I **HAVE** had my brother, and another girl (different times) sit for my dogs and left them both a revolver.

I am fine with it.

[hso]

but I was going to leave the 9mm out on the night stand for the sitter

Don't

[BULLSI]

I agree to not leave a handgun as those are registered to your name but couldnt you leave her the shotgun?

[denvershepherd]

I agree to not leave a handgun as those are registered to your name but couldnt you leave her the shotgun?
Isn't the shotgun also in my name?

[BULLSI]

Is it? In Michigan there is a record of the sale but I could turn and sell my shotgun to whoever could legally own it and there would be no paper trail other than a receipt of sale which I would want to cover my butt if they then took the gun and used it in a crime.

Have you even asked the sitter how she feels about having a weapon when you are gone. Maybe she doesnt want it around?

[blitzen]

If she a trusted friend and a shooter, just ask her if she wants it or not. I would be ok with either way.

[BULLSI]

In Michigan I know that if you own a legally registered handgun and that if the sitter had a cpl she could legally use your handgun.

Probably in every state it would be illegal for her to be in possession of a handgun not registered to her.

[ArmedLiberal]

Your mistake is going online to ask for opinions to support your side of an argument when you need to be talking it over with your wife and coming to a decision that you can both agree with. Maybe a conversation with you, your wife and the sitter too? How would you feel if your wife found twenty friends to back up her side of an argument she was having with you? What's the point?

[denvershepherd]

In Michigan I know that if you own a legally registered handgun and that if the sitter had a cpl she could legally use your handgun.

Probably in every state it would be illegal for her to be in possession of a handgun not registered to her.
Interesting points Bullsi. I'm going to look into this further. Thanks

[bigfatdave]

I agree to not leave a handgun as those are registered to your name but couldnt you leave her the shotgun?

What? What's this registration silliness?
You don't leave a gun for someone because they should have brought their own, not because of some statist silliness from the Brady crowd.

[brboyer]

Research Vicarious Liability

[kingpin008]

Probably in every state it would be illegal for her to be in possession of a handgun not registered to her.

Nonsense. There is no such thing as "registration" in every state. Also, being in a house with a gun does not by any stretch of the imagination equal being in "possession" of said gun. By that logic, anyone who walks in my house is "in posession" of my fridge, my fishtank, and my couch because they aren't securely locked away in a safe. :banghead:

And even if there was such a thing as nation-wide registration, why would it be illegal for an otherwise non-prohibited individual to be in posession of a gun not registered to them? They're not prohibited from owning guns in the first place, right? How would anyone visit a shooting range, or go hunting out of state? People would be committing crimes left and right by just touching a gun that wasn't theirs.

[BULLSI]

I said In Michigan and Probably. The op needs to check the laws in his state about his question.

Being in a house dog sitting when the home owner isnt there with a loaded (or not) 9mm on the nightstand she would be in possession of that firearm.

This is what I said In Michigan I know that if you own a legally registered handgun and that if the sitter had a cpl she could legally use your handgun.

Probably in every state it would be illegal for her to be in possession of a handgun not registered to her.

In Michigan every handgun is to be registered to the owner. If you are not the owner then it is illegal for you to be in possession of that handgun. So I couldnt let anybody just borrow it and go off to do whatever, wherever they wanted to with it. If you have a cpl I could let you take my legally registered handgun and go to the range with it if that is what you wanted to do, or carry it for sd in Michigan. I dont know about a person not a resident of Michigan so If my cousin from Jersey came to town and wanted to borrow it (for whatever reason) and he had a cpl I would have to research it to see if it was ok with the the man.

[FenderTK421]

I would just ask her...

[stickhauler]

That's just another example of why I'm forever blessed to be a Buckeye, and considering the fact that there are so many gun owners in Michigan, I can't for the life of me figure out why you folks would allow your state to restrict your rights. But then again, you keep re-electing "Granny" Granholm, so there you go.

[smallbore]

Let's see. . .The person 'sitting' for your dog/home has also accompanied you/your wife to the range. No mention of her even owning a firearm. You're thinking about leaving one 'out just in case' (big liability in our increasingly litigious society). Ever ask her why she doesn't own her own?

[leadcounsel]

I think the OP should talk to his wife and the sitter and get their feelings and then consider a few other things:

Worst case scenarios if you leave a handgun or shotgun
- someone could break in and steal it while she's out. can be mitigated if you hide it or but it in a lockbox and give the sitter a key
- someone could break in and use it against her (either while she's there or when she comes home). again, can be mitigated by securing/hiding it
- she or her guest could toy with it and shoot someone or something. mitigated by securing/hiding it and you have to weight this on your trust of her. could result in lawsuit.
- she could use it to defend herself and make a mess of a badguy (this is what they are for)
- or accidently shoot through a wall and hit an innocent. highly improbable but possible. wouldn't even worry about it. but it could result in a lawsuit against you the homeowner.

Worst case scenarios if you DON'T leave a weapon for her
- someone breaks in and rapes, beats or murders her in your house. would possibly also kill the dog(s). i would feel a lot of guilt if this happened.

If it were me, and I fully trusted the person enough to watch my dogs and knew she wasn't a prohibited person (ex con, domestic violence, etc.), I would
- see if she wanted it available and would use it if it were there
- buy a lockbox and put whatever gun I have personally observed her safely use/handle/shoot in said lockbox, show her where it is hidden and give her the key
- enjoy your trip

As to boarding the dogs, I prefer not to board mine because they develop bad habbits including peeing on the floor and barking. And I'm very particular about the treatment of my dogs.

[shockwave]

If your sitter believes she would be better protected with a gun then she would have her own

Right. It's a personal choice. You don't get to make that decision for anyone other than yourself. You don't make that choice for your spouse, your children, your relatives or your friends. You don't get to do that.

I was going to leave the 9mm out on the night stand

In the Pantheon of Bad Ideas, that's pretty much going to be front and center. Y'know, when I learned the Basic Rules of Firearm Safety, there were three of them. Some people learn four, and today four is the standard. Sometimes you'll hear a fifth rule:

Know where your firearm is and always have it under your control.

So, in the spirit of that rule, you can see that putting a gun out in the open, then going off on holiday is probably a really, really bad idea.

[sig228]

Mistake.

YOUR guns should never be out of YOUR control.

[hso]

Probably in every state it would be illegal for her to be in possession of a handgun not registered to her.

No one should assume that the restrictive or irrational laws of one state are in place in another. Most states do not require registration of any non-NFA firearm. The best advice is to suggest our friend check that his state laws are not as goofy (or goofier) than ours.

Since the overwhelming consensus on a firearms forum has been that it's a bad idea to "leave a firearm out" when you go on vacation for someone who doesn't have their own and who hasn't been consulted about it it is pretty clear that folks that like guns are going to give advice not based on an irrational fear of firearms.

[denvershepherd]

Funny twist to the story... So after reading everyone's posts I contacted my sitter (who I haven't talked to in about 2 months) to see if she was still ok to watch the dogs and she says:

"Uh huh, no problem I'll be there. Also I wanted to let you know that I bought that .45 you were talking about at the range the last time we were there and was wondering if you had any problem with me keeping it at your home while I'm there?"

I was laughing to myself but I never told her that I had posted this question in the forum. I told her I was fine with her bringing it over during her stay.

Nobody has a problem with me letting her bring her own gun do they? Although my wife didn't say anything, I got the impression that she doesn't want the sitter to have access to ANY firearms while she is in our home.

Thoughts...??

[stickhauler]

I wouldn't have a problem with someone I trusted enough to allow them to stay at my house in my absence bringing along whatever weapon they wanted to bring to insure their own personal safety. Well, with a few exceptions. I wouldn't let them bring an illegal weapon into my home. If they brought an illegally modified AR or AK style firearm, or stolen military ordinance, I'd have a concern. But a handgun they are perfectly legal possessing, not a problem. In fact, denying her that right to self protection is exactly what the anti-gun segments of our society continues to try to inflict on all of us.

[TexasGunbie]

Why don't you ask your sitter if she wants to hang on to a shotgun? if yes, then make it available to her. Lock up the rest.

[Old krow]

Nobody has a problem with me letting her bring her own gun do they? Although my wife didn't say anything, I got the impression that she doesn't want the sitter to have access to ANY firearms while she is in our home.

Thoughts...??

You mentioned that she had been to the range with you guys several times. Is she safe? In fact, you said that she had shot with you guys "many" times. I'd have to operate under the assumption that if she were unsafe she wouldn't have gone with you "many" times.

No one should assume that the restrictive or irrational laws of one state are in place in another.

This is true and anything that I say is based on the state that I live in... an unrestrictive state.

I was going to leave the 9mm out on the night stand for the sitter in the one in a million chance she needs it.

Do the odds of a burglary chance when you're on vacation? It's intuitive to think that the answer would be "yes."

Perhaps the easiest thing to do might be to ask your wife how she feels about it. We do not know your wife like you do nor do we have any of the pertinent details that you have. If it were my wife I would not assume that the absence of an answer was the answer itself. That is of course, my perspective, my wife, my house, etc.

The short answer, no, it wouldn't bother me if she brought her own gun.

[mcdonl]

Mistake.

YOUR guns should never be out of YOUR control.

I think that may be a little over the edge... So, your saying that I should not let me brother (who got me into shooting after his 30 years in the service) use my gun while he watches my house?

[youngda9]

You are liable for anything that happens with your firearm that you are leaving out. She is responsible for herself.

Listen to your wife this time man.

[SSN Vet]

I think this is an interesting question and it has brought out some interesting points.

In general, I think all inclusive or all exclusive statements and rules are not a substitute for good judgment and brain power.

If your home has been hit in the past.... dog or no dog.... it's certainly reasonable to be concerned about it being hit again. Though it's certainly reasonable to think that a good dog with alert and protective instincts would be of great benefit should someone come around again, I'm of the school of thought that relying on the dog to do more for you than alert you to an intruders presence is asking more than you should. (i.e. it's my job to defend and protect my dog, not visa versa). So I'd say your instinct that your dog is no match for an intruder armed with a firearm is spot on.

I also commend your concern for the safety of your dog sitter friend. And though people often debate whether or not they are their brothers (or sisters) keeper, the fact that this gal is helping you out with a friendly service, regardless of whether or not you pay her.... (I'd suggest a generous gift certificate) puts at least some responsibility for her well being in your court.

Some thoughts I would add....

1. I suggest that it is better to share with someone your concerns and ask about their preferences, rather than making decisions for them.

2. I would never consider arming someone unless I knew they were competent to use the tool. Since you had been to the range with her, you had a reasonable basis to make such a judgment.

3. Leaving a firearm out leaves open a greater possibility that it could fall into the wrong hands, should your sitter be out of the house for a while (run to the corner store, walking the dog?)

4. Based on all of the consideration above, an how the conversation went with the gal (yours obviously went very well) I might offer to leave the shot gun in the bedroom closet for her as that should certainly be adequate for her to defend herself within your home.

without making a big deal about it, I do thin that this comment....

Probably in ever state it would be illegal for her to be in possession of a handgun not registered to her.

does offer some insight into how ones mindset can change when you get used to a certain amount of obtrusive government and the gradual loss of liberty. Because the day after a law is passed we continue to go to work and attend to our families and business, we can be easily lulled into thinking that it's "no big deal" and that the new normal we've become accustomed to, must certainly be normal for folks living in other parts of the country as well.

And finally... regarding liability... looking out for someone else will usually incur some form of liability. But then again, turning your back on a friend who's helping you out isn't entirely safe either. Just how thrilled would you be to go to bed every night in your fine home, if perhaps, your friend was brutally raped and murdered in your own bedroom, just a week prior. A steam vac may work wonders on the carpet. Perhaps not so well on your conscience/soul.

[youngda9]

Your mistake is going online to ask for opinions to support your side of an argument when you need to be talking it over with your wife and coming to a decision that you can both agree with. Maybe a conversation with you, your wife and the sitter too? How would you feel if your wife found twenty friends to back up her side of an argument she was having with you? What's the point?
^^ "Honey, I checked with my online friends and 84% of them agree with them. Here's the transcript."

You better duck if you're going that route, haha.

[ForumSurfer]

Lock it up. You're also leaving it out in the open for someone else to steal and use against her. If you're worried about trouble; who's to say it will happen before, after or during her visit.

I'm starting to lean towards locking them all up now. I just hate the thought of her being helpless in the off chance someone breaks in.

Help her get a ccw and help train her. Or just give her some OC and a quick demonstration of how to use it. Leaving a handgun out for her to use just seems bad.