[otisrush]

I figure this is a "Coke or Pepsi?" decision - i.e. "What do you like the best?" - but I thought I'd throw it out here. As a little background, I shot A LOT with my dad when I was growing up. Now I'm in my late 40s and get much more back into it. I don't hunt. I just enjoy going out and trying to be proficient shooting targets, cans, etc. Self-defense is not a consideration in the following question.

I'm considering acquisition of a 9mm auto. Glock's market position and reputation is obviously extremely strong and, consequently, it would seem like an easy decision. While I've never shot a Glock, I have to say I just don't like the looks of them. They seem boxy. The trigger itself looks almost plastic; at least from what I've seen online.

Browning as a brand has always been very high on my list. I've always just loved their guns. Again, using only internet images, the 9mm Hi Power just looks (aesthetically) like a great gun.

So - which to buy? Maybe I'm turning into much more of an old school guy than I realized. I've heard of some issues - specifically with regards to the trigger - that makes me a bit hesitant with the Browning. But between the brand image in my head as well as the lines that feels like a better choice.

Opinions?

Thanks.

OR

[jonnyc]

Both are common enough that you should be able to at least handle both before purchase.
FWIW, I can't think of many guns I shoot better than my friend's XD-40, but I would never buy one, just don't really like the looks or feel. If you don't really like the Glock, I wouldn't get it.

[jeepguy]

i would get the high power if it were me. it wouldn't even be a hard decision. especially if you are only going to have one firearm. i think glocks are good guns, i just like alloy or all steel firearms more. the alloy/steel handguns just feel better in my hands. whatever you get i hope you enjoy it and get to shoot it alot.

[dusty14u]

I have a Glock and have only handeled The HP's. While the Glock is uber reliable I would personally for with the HP. It has proven itse3lf over the years and is more pleasing to my eyes.

[Jim PHL]

Not trying to equate gun love with real romance, but to coin a phrase: "the heart wants what it wants". I've been in your spot before. I've shot many Glocks and shot them well. I've got a real appreciation for their well-deserved reputation for reliability, accuracy, ease of handling and maintenance, etc. etc etc. But I've been in gun stores at least 3 times, cash in hand to buy a Glock and just ended up handing them back over the counter because, well, I just don't want one. Liking a gun, yes, even liking how it looks, is an important component of ownership.

Editted to add: All the above said, I would not be surprised to find myself owning a Glock because I really do have an appreciation for them. If I could afford to own a large collection there would probably be at least one or two in there. But so far, when I've been in a position to make a purchase, there has always been something I've wanted a little more.

[HOWARD J]

I carry a Glock 26 for protection.
I use a Browning P-35 for target...............Under 2 # trigger.

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/4590/p35r.th.jpg (http://img407.imageshack.us/i/p35r.jpg/)

[Drail]

Browning High Power. No contest. (HOWARD J, you don't actually use that WD 40 on your guns do you?)

[wishn4more]

I totally love the HiPower. Not knocking the Glock, but I love the classic lines and the single action trigger. I would always vote Hi-power unless I was going into a swamp!

[Ledgehammer]

Huge price difference. Just sayin...

[rellascout]

Huge price difference. Just sayin...

Not if you shop smart and are patient. BHPs can be had for under $550 if you are willing to look around and pick a nice LNIB gun vs NIB.

[HOWARD J]

@drail
WD-40 is for my lathe & milling machine for making small gun parts

[dogtown tom]

otisrush:...The trigger itself looks almost plastic...You may be shocked when you find out what the frame is made of.:eek:

....So - which to buy?...
Get both.
Seriously.

I've been a Hi Power owner since 1980 and think it is one of the finest handguns ever produced. There is a reason it is called "Queen of Nines". It is the 9mm that CZ fanboys always compare their CZ75 to.

That said, The Glock is a dang good gun........for a soulless chunk of plastic. It has zero inate beauty, it is simply a tool. A tool that will continue to work for years with little maintenance or care. If it breaks, the parts are easily replaced by the owner.

I resisted buying a Glock for years because I hate plastic guns. I do love guns that are user friendly and there aren't many mods or repairs that you can't do yourself.

If you get a scratch on your Hi Power, you cry (in a manly way).
If you get a scratch on your Glock no one will ever see it.

If the HP grip isn't to your taste, you buy new grips from hundreds of gripmakers.
If the Glock grip isn't to your taste, you grab a soldering iron, belt sander and a wood rasp and go medieval on it.

You'll smile if you can get your HP trigger to break smoothly at 3.5 pounds with no creep or overtravel.
You'll laugh out loud knowing Glock thinks the G26 & G27 are "subcompacts".

Your children will sing your praises for leaving them that Hi Power after you are gone.
Your children will not impress their friends by showing off the inherited Glock. "uh...yeah cool.....it looks like every other Glock...so what."

John Browning died in his office at FN before he could finish the HP design.
Seventy year old Gaston Glock beat up a 67 year old hitman in a garage.

Indiana Jones carried a Hi Power.
Plaxico Burris dropped a Glock.

A new Browning Hi Power will run you about $800.
A porcelain Glock costs more than you make in a month.

[burley]

OH! A quote from Die Hard II.

[Sapper771]

If defense is not a consideration, I would recomend the Hi Power. Beautiful and very fun to shoot. I only have one right now and it only sees the range.

[Danneskjold]

Hi-Power, hands down. Hey, it was good enough for the SAS.

[valor1]

I'd get a Glock. Don't like doing too much maintenance work on guns. I also like replacing parts on my own so it saves me the gunsmithing costs. A Glock 17 with 17 rounds of 9mm gives me more confidence in case I need to do a spray and pray.

[Taroman]

Not really pepsi/Coke. More like chalk/cheese. Both are great, but....really different.

Why not get both - then decide?

[viking499]

Not pepsi/coke. More like metal/plastic..............

[DJW]

A few have danced around it but not come out and said it. Take a serious look at the CZ75B. To me it is an improved Hi Power with the option of a double action first shot.....

[viking499]

I was trying to be nice and not mention CZ.............:rolleyes:

[PabloJ]

If you're not going to carry the gun on you I would get HP. The FN-HP is actually less expensive then the Glock.

[SharpsDressedMan]

Get a Browning AND a CZ75. Then, if you get bored, get a Glock.

[Prosser]

Anyone that can so easily say the Hi-Power has never shot a Glock 34. Absolute tack driver, great trigger, and, I HATE stock Glocks, mainly due the trigger.
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f99/Socrates28/RACE%20GLOCK/Glock35racegun.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f99/Socrates28/RACE%20GLOCK/raceglocktarget.jpg

The above is a G35 tricked out for competition. Guy next to me wanted to shoot my guns, and, I decided I'd give his glock a try, since it was obvious by his groups that he and it could both shoot one hole at 15 yards.

The G34 isn't far behind.

I love Hi-Powers, but look up Stephen Camps' page on it for instructions to dispose of the mag disconnect to get the trigger down to a 1911 level of trigger pull.

I sold my Hi-Powers at the time because the trigger was far worse then the 1911 Detonics I stayed with instead. Not to mention those tiny little 9mm bullets are a pain to reload, and, something about 1200 fps with a 200 grain speer flying ashtray in .45 caliber that gives me the warm and fuzzines.

[Ledgehammer]

Huge price difference. Just sayin...
Not if you shop smart and are patient. BHPs can be had for under $550 if you are willing to look around and pick a nice LNIB gun vs NIB.

Used glocks can be had for low or mid 300's if you're patient. There's a couple hundred dollar price difference between a browning hp and the glocks.

[REAPER4206969]

Glock, if for serious use.

[Mizar]

Hi-Power is just a range toy... No practical use for the "serious operator", right? :)
Glock is a very nice pistol there is no doubt about that, but to say that a Hi-Power is not suited fo defence or "serious use" is just funny. I can't understand why some people insist that before the introduction of Glock there was no "real" guns... Or that the people who lived in 1950 for instance did not know how to "seriously use" their guns...

Boris

[sansone]

all-steel single action BHP, no funky trigger BS or mattel plastics :neener:

afterthought- since the cz75B was mentioned already: double action + all-steel

[GunTech]

If I were buying the gun for an occasional shooter, the HP-35 gets the nod.

But for those of us who remember the HP as a carry gun before there was such a thing as a Glock, the Browning is not without warts as a carry gun. IMO, most HPs are not carry ready as they come from the factory. While the latest MkIIIs are a vast improvement, the original design was made for ball ammo and in the past the gun could be unreliable with some hollow points. The trigger also typically takes work to smooth out, but this may not be an issue to those used to the new polymer autos. The Hipower is designed to be carried condition one (cocked and locked) and this bothers some people. It has a magazine safety, which many consider less than ideal in an SD handgun.

There are a number of competent gunsmiths who can turn an HP-35 into a superior SD gun. If it were my primary carry, I would probably have a basic carry package done on my HP.

Fit and feel of the HP is like know other, and to me defines what a 9mm is supposed to feel like. As noted in another post, the Koucy brothers, designers of the CZ-75, were inspired by the design of the HP (among others).

While the HP has been the choice of elite military and police units, they have fallen from favor. There are cheaper, more durable and more reliable guns available now. That's not surprising as the HP was designed prior to WWII and we've made some manufacturing and materials progress since then. The latest HPs are CNC machined, and while not hand fitted like the older ones, are probably the best of the breed in terms of manufacture.

HPs represent a disappearing style of manufacture, and they certainly aren't going to get any cheaper. Buying one now is probably a good move, because the dollar isn't what it used to be and it's not likely to recover any time soon.

Glocks and other polymer guns are cheap and plentiful. You'll be able to add one later if you decide you need a light, everyday carry gun. I wonder if guns like the HP will continued to be made due to the cost of labor and production, and if there are enough buyers to keep it profitable for the manufacturer to continue production.

Bottom line - if the gun is not being purchased solely as a uber-reliable, durable everyday carry gun, get the HP. You can get the other any time.

[sansone]

BHP cycles hollowpoints, aluminum case Blazers, even truncated cone lead bullets. I have never seen an auto less finicky.. Downside to BHP is cost. Like the 1911 their 70+yr popularity is for good reason. Cost and single action caused a gradual falling from favor

[Mizar]

Mk.III Hi-Powers are as durable and reliable as any modern auto (Glock...) There is no REAL need of taking a Mk.III to a gunsmith to do "basic carry package" - this is just personal preference. Older Brownings are known to be problematic with HP ammunition, so as the older Glocks are known to have extraction problems and etc. Both guns did evolve.

There are lots of rumors and fairy-tales concerning this pistol. I believe that most of them are coming from young people with little interest in the "old school" guns. There is no real problem with the pistol, the problem is with the user...

Boris

[sansone]

agreed.... Glock is also a fine gun. just not to my liking, beeing a geezer :D

[GunTech]

Mizar, I have been shooting HPs since the late 70s. The Mk III I purchased last year would not reliably feed 147gn Hydrashock. This is the second Mk III I've owned and neither was 100% reliable will all ammo. Heavy, long hollow points seem a particular problem. FWIW, my Kahr K-9 will not reliably feed these either. Fortunately, Cylinder and Slide rectified the problem. The folks at Browning suggested I try different ammo.

Maybe I just got two bad guns in a row, but I would never trust any pistol until it have a couple hundred round through it without incident.

[CSA 357]

the glock would be my chose, the bhp is a sweet gun but it will not hold up as well as the glock,ask any one that has shot 10,000 rounds or so in the bhp.

[Mizar]

GunTech, every gun likes different ammo. 147gn Hydrashock is not the only self-defense ammo available to you, right? One story - one of my friends has a Glock 19. The same Glock did not extract maybe 40% of some light reloads and in the same time with the same rounds my Mk.III did just fine. Go figure...

Boris

[ForumSurfer]

This isn't much of a comparison. The two are so different, it is hard to compare them.

I carry a Glock. I also own a few 1911's. I want a BHP.

The glock has a horrible trigger IMO, but it works once you become accustomed to it. The trigger on a BHP is much more to my liking, but opinions vary.

Both are great guns and will outlast most shooters. Both are reliable. Both are accurate.

You just can't go wrong with either.

Rent each and run 100 rounds through both, back to back. Your preference towards one or the other will emerge.

Just my 2 cents...if this is a range only deal, I would be hard pressed not to go BHP. Tons of grip offerings and a sweet trigger would entice me more. The only reason I bought a g19 was for the intent of carrying. For all around plinking, I prefer my 1911's. I still carry one of them from time to time, too.

[easyg]

There are only a few things that I really don't like about the Hi-Power in its original form:

1) The location and size of the safety lever.
2) Hammer bite.
3) Weight.

An unloaded Hi-Power weights more than a loaded Glock 19.

The Glock 19 weighs 20.99 oz. empty and 29.98 oz. when loaded with 15 rounds.
The Hi-Power weighs 32 oz. when empty, and about 38 oz. when loaded with 13 rounds.

[sansone]

they are actually not guns easily compared. the only thing in common is they shoot

[ForumSurfer]

An unloaded Hi-Power weights more than a loaded Glock 19.

These weight differences never bothered me when compared to a full size 1911. When I carry either on a good belt in a good holster, I honestly can't tell a difference in weight. Load me up with hiking gear or or other stuff and 500 rounds of ammo and the story may change, but with just the pistol and a spare mag or two the difference isn't even perceptible to me.

The OP also said this would be a range type deal, also. That weight difference isn't going to matter much unless he's shooting 10,000 round sessions. :)

[easyg]

When I carry either on a good belt in a good holster, I honestly can't tell a difference in weight.

...but with just the pistol and a spare mag or two the difference isn't even perceptible to me.

You honestly can't feel a 10 oz difference on your belt?

Have you seen a doctor about this?
You might have some type of neuropathy.


Seriously, I know some guys who don't mind the extra weight of a heavier gun or knife, but I don't know anyone who can't feel the difference 10 ounces makes.

[bartman06]

I like the get both idea. Start with the HP because they are the more classy of the two then get the Glock.

Good luck

[Marshall]

The Browning/FN Hi Power!

It's a gun you'll be proud to pass on to your kids some day.

[Arizonagunrunner]

Glock all the way!
No better auto then the G19!
Will shoot and kill ya just as well as the next caliber or gun.
But with Glock, you have total quality/relilability 99.99999% of the time.
Hi-Power I dont believe can say that.

[Marshall]

But with Glock, you have total quality/relilability 99.99999% of the time.
Hi-Power I dont believe can say that.

You're right. My Hi Powers have been reliable 100% of the time. ;)

[Mizar]

I don't believe you, Marshal - you must be telling us a fairy-tale.... :)

Boris

[ForumSurfer]

Seriously, I know some guys who don't mind the extra weight of a heavier gun or knife, but I don't know anyone who can't feel the difference 10 ounces makes.

Okay, maybe I can feel an oh so slight difference...but it really isn't enough to bother me. I can't tell any difference in my arms when going through 2-500 rounds, either. It just isn't very perceptible to me. My fully loaded 1911 doesn't seem to tire me any worse than my fully loaded 19, nor am I sore or anything. Honestly, the bulkiness of the 19 makes the 1911 more comfortable to carry...to me. Then again, I carry nothing on my belt. Wallet, cell phone and keys (one key fob and three keys)...that's it.

Now load me up with the gear that a cop wears on his belt or all the additional stuff a soldier would carry, then I'll be singing the praises of my really light glock. :)

[Harley Quinn]

Both are good, if first pistol I have a leaning to the HP but do prefer the Glock for self...

Glock is a well made item lots out there used and exLEO if looking go one like that...

The extra safe issue, with the HP is also a good thing for new folks...

Good read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Browning_Hi-Power

Regards

[easyg]

It's a gun you'll be proud to pass on to your kids some day.
You do know that the kids are just going to pawn the gun so they can buy some new video game or skateboard, right? :evil:

[Harley Quinn]

easyg...

Lot of truth to that I have seen over the years:what: Some of the new ones growing up don't have a lot of use for firearms it seems...:(

Regards

[dcarch]

Go with a CZ 75 Stainless. The only reason I don't own a CZ yet is because I don't like 9mm. As far as 9mm's go though, the CZ is like a HP, but better. :) I have never met a gun that was more ergonomic than the CZ 75. Ever.

[otisrush]

Holy smokes. You folks are fantastic. The volume and depth of the input offered here has far exceeded my expectations. You've provided some great things to think about.

I think I just can''t *not* by a BHP if I'm going to plop down some dough. Until I started thinking about this purchase did it hit me how much of a "steel and wood" guy I am. If I was (or do in the future) look for a self-protection device there is no doubt I'd go get a Glock. But for enjoying holding it, looking at it, feeling and hearing the action, and appreciating what it does when shooting at the range, I think the BHP has won.

Thanks again.

OR

[Hammerhead6814]

If your a tacticool kind of guy, Glock. If your an economy minded-shooter, Glock.

If your an accuracy kind of guy who has some money laying around, Hi-Power.

[Prosser]

One more time. Stephen Camp's website:
http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/HiPowerComments.html
on the trigger pull
http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/MagazineSafety.htm

[Marshall]

Congrats on your decision to buy the Hi Power.


Here is where Mr Camp compares the Hi Power & the G17.

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/Hi%20Power%20and%20Glock17.htm

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

One thing about the Hi Power is the fact that its metal and metal guns last longer than plastic if cared for properly. Plastic gets brittle no matter what kind and IMO wouldn't make a good heirloom for your descendents. The Hi Power is thinner than a Glock and is easier to conceal than a Glock 17. If weight is an issue than maybe you need to hit the gym. The gun suits me and many, many other people since 1935.

Its the most popular handgun in the world after all.

[larryh1108]

It's like asking if you want a mint condition 69 Camaro or the latest Toyota Camry.
Both will get you to your job. Each one has it's positives. The Toyota has all the latest gimmicks and technology but the Camaro has that wow factor.

[HGUNHNTR]

If weight is an issue than maybe you need to hit the gym.

This is a tired old remark, made primarily by folks that don't carry. In CCW, the gun's weight is about all day carry comfort, not the presence or absence of strength, or being able to carry the weight all day. Going to the gym isn't going to make carrying a heavy gun any more pleasant.
-The G17 suits many many folks as well.

[sprice]

It really is just what you like/want best. I am now more of a glock man. Because I plan on using my guns guns rough. If you don't shoot ton and tons of ammo through it (like if your not planning on shooting 200k through it) and want a fun gun that you love and kind of baby, carry once in a while is comfortable and you don't mind a longer trigger reset then bhp is great. If you want to abuse it and have an inexpensive gun with a lot of aftermarket support that is reliable (and I think it doesn't feel to horrible anymore either), light, and also a fun gun, with higher capacities then glock is probably for you.

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

This is a tired old remark, made primarily by folks that don't carry. In CCW, the gun's weight is about all day carry comfort, not the presence or absence of strength, or being able to carry the weight all day. Going to the gym isn't going to make carrying a heavy gun any more pleasant.
-The G17 suits many many folks as well.


I carry it everyday in a shoulder holster, hasn't been a problem whatsoever.

[HGUNHNTR]

^ For many folks that may be very cumbersome, and going to the gym isn't going to make a lick of difference. The HP is fantastic, great history, wonderful ergonomics, excellent trigger, beautiful lines, etc....just don't lump whole groups of people into the "simpleton" category that don't happen to share your opinion. There is a lot to learn from those with differing opinions, and very little, comparitively from those that echo your own.

Post a pick of your HP, myself and the rest of us would sure love to drool over it.

[larryh1108]

Just a picture of one?

http://i342.photobucket.com/albums/o435/larryh1108/BHP/BHP3left1.jpg

[GunTech]

Fivetwoseven, do you have a cite for brittleness in the Glock? The reality is that modern polymers last a very long time. So long in fact that there is concern that they will be clogging up landfill for centuries. And unlike steel frames, polymer frames don't suffer the same sort of fatigue from firing due to their 'plastic' nature. Polymer frames are also not subject to the rust and corrosion that steel frames gun are.

The reality is that the polymer naysayers are looking at 21st century polymers and suggesting they're no better than 19th century bakelite. The fact is that polymers and composites are replacing steel in a wide variety of applications because for many applications they are a superior material.

As noted in another thread, alloy framed guns typically have a service life of about 25,000-30,000 rounds. Steel guns can do double that. On the other hand, a well made polymer framed handgun can expect to survive several hundred thousand rounds.

Ultimately, this is really a question of what the buyer prefers.

If you want to argue which is the more durable, there are plenty of tests that show which handgun comes out on top, and it isn't the traditional all steel.

[SharpsDressedMan]

They are hard to find, and can get pricey, but FN made some alloy hi powers, that weigh loaded what a steel Hi Power weighs empty (32oz). A very noticeable difference. The best of both worlds. I bought two used ones recently for reasonably good prices, sold one for a profit, which reduced my overall inestment, and then customized the one I kept. I have about $875 in a custom alloy Hi Power with Esmeraldas grips. http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m247/matquig/DSC05980.jpg

[atblis]

One thing about the Hi Power is the fact that its metal and metal guns last longer than plastic if cared for properly. Plastic gets brittle no matter what kind and IMO wouldn't make a good heirloom for your descendents. The Hi Power is thinner than a Glock and is easier to conceal than a Glock 17. If weight is an issue than maybe you need to hit the gym. The gun suits me and many, many other people since 1935.
The flip side of that is if you actually put rounds down range. The Glock is a much much more durable pistol. Hipowers aren't the longest lasting pistols.

As noted in another thread, alloy framed guns typically have a service life of about 25,000-30,000 rounds. Steel guns can do double that. On the other hand, a well made polymer framed handgun can expect to survive several hundred thousand rounds.
Several hundred thousand? More like 100k for a Glock. If you're referring to just the polymer frame, perhaps.

[GunTech]

Small parts break, but there are many, many documented Glocks well over the 100,000 round mark (Glocks being the most common because they have been on the market longer than any other polymer framed gun). Chuck Taylor is going to be doing an update on his original G17 in the Feb issue of Combat Handguns. For those of you who don't remember, Chuck is a hardcore 1911 fan who bought an early Glock in order to prove it was a cheap plastic POS. They ran and documented 175,000 round through the gun without any major malfunction. The gun is now apparently approaching the 300,000 round mark. And this is certainly not a unique case.

What's telling is that others claim that their particular gun is as or more durable, and yet it next to impossible to find actual documented cases.

Mind you, I am a huge fan of steel handguns. My personal carry most of the time is my stainless CZ-75. But you can't argue with the facts, and the polymer framed guns like the Glock, XD and M&P are proving to be far more durable than any all steel handgun.

The all steel handgun (like the HP-35) is like a nice custom knife. It's a tool and a work of art, and there is a lot of satisfaction in owning one. The polymer pistol is more like a good commercial butcher knife. There's nothing fancy about it. It's a utilitarian tool meant of daily use and abuse and aesthetics is not even a consideration. Everything is about utility.

[easyg]

I carry it everyday in a shoulder holster, hasn't been a problem whatsoever.
That might fly up in New Hampshire, but down in the hot and sunny south shoulder holsters are not that popular, because it's usually too hot to wear a cover garment (unless you're a masochist).

One thing about the Hi Power is the fact that its metal and metal guns last longer than plastic if cared for properly. Plastic gets brittle no matter what kind and IMO wouldn't make a good heirloom for your descendents.
If cared for properly, the metal framed pistol will not last any longer than the plastic framed pistol.

In fact, due to metal fatigue, metal frames tend to stress and crack at a much lower round count than plastic frames.

And, unfortunately, even cheap plastic wrappers and bottles will take many decades, if not centuries, to decompose in our landfills.

[mokin]

If you're only going to get one, go with the Hi Power.

I've got one of each and like them both. Like other posters said, it really isn't an equal comparison. I think they are both great pistols for different reasons. The BHP is 9mm and the Glock is 10mm so there is a big difference when it comes to shooting. Most of the freinds I take shooting like the BHP more. The trigger is the big selling point.

I have found that when I take them both to the range, when I shoot the Browning first, then the Glock, I shoot alright. However, when I shoot the Glock first, I have a real hard time getting good groups with the Browning.

[dcarch]

Don't forget that people are starting to do custom Hi-Power's too now, just like the 1911 cottage industry. I'd really like to see a "Kimbered" version of the high power sold, with some extras like an ambi safety and perhaps a Commander style hammer.

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

Let me clarify about brittlness. Over time which is a long time for poly pistols, the plastic frame gets brittle with or without use, Plastic just gets brittle.

My signature doesn't refer to all Glock owners and shooters but my experiance with quite a few Glock owners is that Glock is the end all handgun and everything else is crap with them making excuses for the bad grip angle and lack of a actual safety. Granted a Glock is perfectly safe in a holster but what if you don't have a holster on you for some reason and you need to holster your gun? I'll feel safer sticking my Hi Power in my waistband than a Glock.

Glocks aren't bad guns but they are just not for me.

To each their own, really.

[atblis]

Let me clarify about brittlness. Over time which is a long time for poly pistols, the plastic frame gets brittle with or without use, Plastic just gets brittle.
Over time huh? Like what? 5000 years?

[cougar1717]

OP - I wouldn't even limit yourself to BHP vs Glock. Looking at pictures and specs on the internet is nothing compared to actually holding the handgun. There are some guns that look great on paper (or on the monitor) that I wouldn't even consider in person. There are others that I didn't really find appealing until I held them. It may just be me, but I don't think it's worth shooting a great looking gun that handles horribly. I would find a gun store that won't throw a fit if you ask to handle 4-5 handguns and see what fits your hands the best, regardless of brand.

[dogtown tom]

atblis: ....Hipowers aren't the longest lasting pistols.
Uhhhh......what?:scrutiny:

The Hi Power may hold the current record for longest continuous military service use of any handgun.

Hi Powers built in 1944 are still in use by Canada, not to mention those in use by other countries.

Where do you guys get this stuff?:rolleyes:

[SharpsDressedMan]

Hi Powers. :):):):D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D ;)

[easyg]

....but my experiance with quite a few Glock owners is that Glock is the end all handgun and everything else is crap with them making excuses for the bad grip angle and lack of a actual safety.
Well, I haven't heard anyone on THR ever claim that anything other than a Glock was "crap", so that's kind of a non-argument here.

As for the grip-angle of the Glock: there is absolutely nothing wrong with the grip angle of a Glock for the vast majority of humans.
The human hand is an amazing and wonderful thing...it easily adapts to many shapes and sizes.
I have never picked up any hand-tool, power-tool, rifle, shotgun, revolver, or autoloader and said "No, this simply will not work for me....the grip-angle is all wrong".

Granted a Glock is perfectly safe in a holster but what if you don't have a holster on you for some reason and you need to holster your gun? I'll feel safer sticking my Hi Power in my waistband than a Glock.
If there is no longer a threat (and you certainly wouldn't want to holster your weapon if there was a threat present) then you have a couple of choices:

You could just lay the Glock down.
Place it on a table or on the ground, or place it inside a drawer or cabinet or glove-compartment, or on the roof of the car, or on top of the refrigerator, etc....

OR

You could just clear the weapon (remove the magazine and empty the chamber) and then stick it in your pocket or waistband.

Glocks aren't bad guns but they are just not for me.
That's fine, just say that you don't like Glocks and let it go at that.
But don't try to come up with nonsensical arguments or silly scenarios just to justify your bias.



Easy

[Baba Louie]

Both are great handguns based on the technology of their times. One has a lot of history behind it, the other is making history of its own. Both soldier on.

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u308/Babalou55/HPG17005.jpg

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u308/Babalou55/36001.jpg

The Inglis was my Dads and he held it in high esteem (for a 9) along with his P06. He never cottoned to the Glock due to the trigger's spongie (sp?) pull blocky design and yes... the plastic. (Old timers... whaddyagonnado?) :D

What other wonderful things did their designers come up with besides shower curtain rods and folding shovels, FN49s and FALs... maybe a shotgun or two, a MG or three, some earlier semiauto pistols now also out of date, darned old heavy steel and wood that launches punkin sized chunks o lead downrange.

Comforting, not always comfortable. One feels good in the hand, the other, great. Both reassuring and more accurate than I.

YMMV

[joeturner]

I own both and the thing that consistently surprises me is, despite its light weight, how thick the G19 is compared to the BHP, particularly when carried IWB. For me, I am less concerned with the weight differential as I am with the added bulk when carrying.

[easyg]

I own both and the thing that consistently surprises me is, despite its light weight, how thick the G19 is compared to the BHP, particularly when carried IWB. For me, I am less concerned with the weight differential as I am with the added bulk when carrying.
Well, let's see...

The Glock 19 width is 1.18".

The BHP without stocks is 1.00".

The BHP with stocks is 1.417".

So the Hi-Power without grip stocks is only .18" thinner than the G19, and with grip stocks it's 0.237" thicker than the G19.

And with the Hi-Power you get 13+1 rounds, but with the Glock 19 you get 15+1 rounds.

[joeturner]

Well, let's see...

The Glock 19 width is 1.18".

The BHP without stocks is 1.00".

The BHP with stocks is 1.417".

So the Hi-Power without grip stocks is only .18" thinner than the G19, and with grip stocks it's 0.237" thicker than the G19.

And with the Hi-Power you get 13+1 rounds, but with the Glock 19 you get 15+1 rounds.
I'm really just talking about the slides. Do you have both? Numbers are great, but you really can't appreciate it without actually carrying them.

And Mec-gar makes flush fit 15 rounders for the BHP.

[dogtown tom]

easyg Quote:
I own both and the thing that consistently surprises me is, despite its light weight, how thick the G19 is compared to the BHP, particularly when carried IWB. For me, I am less concerned with the weight differential as I am with the added bulk when carrying.
Well, let's see...

The Glock 19 width is 1.18".

The BHP without stocks is 1.00".

The BHP with stocks is 1.417".

So the Hi-Power without grip stocks is only .18" thinner than the G19, and with grip stocks it's 0.237" thicker than the G19.

And with the Hi-Power you get 13+1 rounds, but with the Glock 19 you get 15+1 rounds.

Fun with numbers.

Only a Glock fanboy could try and explain how the Hi Power is actually fatter than the G19. BTW, HP's are available with MANY types of factory and aftermarket grips. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the slimness of the Hi Power compared to a Glock. All you have to do is hold them.

Two young ladies:
One, a Belgian, is 36", 24", 36"
The other, an Austrian, is 36", 36", 36"


While the sturdy features of the Austrian above are fine for milking cows and general labor, it's the pretty Belgian you want to dance with......:D

[Ledgehammer]

I'm going to give you this. That was probably the best gun analogy I've ever read. I'm a glock fanboy too. So you know it was good lol. But in all seriousness my g19 has been 100% since day one I have probably 3000 rounds down range by now. But I am 6'2 210 lbs and don't limp wrist so I'm in love with my chunky glock. Hahahaha haaaaaaa sorry I was channeling Burt Reynolds.

[atblis]

Uhhhh......what?

The Hi Power may hold the current record for longest continuous military service use of any handgun.

Hi Powers built in 1944 are still in use by Canada, not to mention those in use by other countries.

Where do you guys get this stuff?
Meh. The Canadians still use the Hipower. Whoopty do.

Hipower is about a 30k-40k round pistol before a major component fails
Glock 9mm will do that easily and then some.
Sorry, just the way things are.

30k is much more than most people will ever shoot so it's not really a reason to avoid the Hipower if you fancy them.

[Pilot]

The British also still use the Hi Power. Remember the pic of Prince Harry in Afganistan? Where do you get the 30K - 40K round count for the BHP MK III 9MM?

My BHP is my most accurate centerfire pistol. Slim, accurate, and reliable, with a nice, crisp single action trigger.

[SharpsDressedMan]

Think professionally. You buy a $600-$800 handgun. You shoot 20-25K rounds through it (that is probably at least $200 per/M for any caliber), so that's $4000-$5000 downrange. Even if you crack the frame in that many rounds, and throw the gun away, you have only added 20% more to your "expenditure" to have practiced heavily and "insured" yourself with that firearm during that time. We all buy car insurance and we don't whine much about the $500-$1000 we throw away every year. Just figure that a gun just might be a tool, and a tool that wears out if you actually use it. With Glocks, the new tool will look almost like the old one. You could even buy another Browning that probably looks the same, or have it modified, etc. Comparative durability probably isn't an issue.

[easyg]

I'm really just talking about the slides. Do you have both? Numbers are great, but you really can't appreciate it without actually carrying them.
I no longer own a BHP, but I did at one time.
Yes, it is SLIGHTLY thinner than the Glock 19, but we're talking less than 1/4" here.
There's not a huge difference in the thickness between the two.

So this comparison would be more correct....

Two young ladies:
One, a Belgian, is 36", 24", 36"
The other, an Austrian, is 37", 25", 37"

[docnyt]

But the Belgian is a more graceful ballerina while the Austrian is an endurance queen.

[Steelshooter101]

I have a glock, HP and CZ75D, the glock will get sold soon. The HP and CZ are a joy to shoot. Can't afford Jacked bullets and can't shoot cast from a Glock without a barrel change. The glock's grip angle is wrong for me and hard to hit targets off hand but is a fine pistol.

[dcarch]

Yo, dogtown tom, that was probably the best analogy for guns I've heard in a very long time. Especially since I live in Iowa, as soon as you said that about wide Austrians, a few Mennonite girls I know came to mind. OP should go with the Browning, unless his name is Brother Zebadiah. :D

[REAPER4206969]

I'm really just talking about the slides.
The Glock slide is 1.00".

[Marshall]

But the Belgian is a more graceful ballerina while the Austrian is an endurance queen.

Regardless of measurements, let us not forget, the Austrian is just flat ugly. :p

But nothing nite sites can't fix. :neener:

[KodiakBeer]

I just got my first Hi Power a couple of weeks ago. I bought the cheapest, crappiest, beat up Hi Power you can find, for $289 - an Argentine FM 90. It shoots like a champ. I was hooked.

I bought my second Hi Power yesterday. An FN/Browning Israeli police contract for $389. There's about a hundred of them from the same outfit for sale on Gunbroker and GunsAmerica. I haven't rec'd this one yet, but the pictures indicate it's in really great shape.

You can't go wrong.

Picture below - one hole, 20 yards, offhand. A $289 Argentine HP! Great balance, great ergonomics, a single action trigger - it's difficult to shoot badly with such a gun!

[EmbarkChief]

Don't forget that people are starting to do custom Hi-Power's too now, just like the 1911 cottage industry. I'd really like to see a "Kimbered" version of the high power sold, with some extras like an ambi safety and perhaps a Commander style hammer.
The pic really doesn't do it justice, this is 1971 HP that was worked over by Novak's (SRT Package). HP's all the way for me at least.

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u314/EmbarkChief/Hi%20Power/th_IMG_0067.jpg (http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u314/EmbarkChief/Hi%20Power/IMG_0067.jpg)

[augustino]

I've owned both. I love both.
For concealed carry I opted for a Glock 19. Smaller; lighter; will take any/all +P+ loads; holds up better in my oponion; much easier to DETAIL strip and modify or repair. I can change a broken extractor in a few minutes flat as well as clean that Glock at the same time. I can remove and replace every spring, trigger component, firing pin & springs and anything else in a matter of minutes with one $9.00 tool and no special skills.

Try that on any other pistols. So for a pistol for urban survival should the stuff hit the fan, Glock for me.

BUT I LOVE the classic lines, the wonderful feel and drop dead beautiful looks of the Hi Powers. Mine had the wooden grips that would come loose after shooting (yes even with loctite on screw threads) BHP are some darn good pistols.
One of the biggest mistakes I've ever made was selling that BHP. I sold it because I needed cash. To this day, to this second I kick myself for having sold it. One day I'll get another but until that time it's Glocks for me because they're dependable as are BHP BUT oh so easy to DETAIL strip and maintain. And that tennifer finish on the steel is darn near bullet proof! The metal on my BHP started to show signs of wear not long after having it on the section of the grip that the fingers wrap around where the magazine slides up into. Acid from sweaty hands I suppose. YES I cleaned it religiously!

Now I've heard some say metal guns last longer than plastic if cared for properly. Plastic gets brittle no matter what kind and IMO wouldn't make a good heirloom for your descendents. Well if the Glock were plastic perhaps that would be so. But it's not plastic it's polymer, big difference in their chemical composition. And if you took a Glock and a metal gun and burried them both side by side. Then dug them both up in 3 months the polymer would be in far better shape than the metal. Havne't you heard those darn water bottles will be around for 100 years in landfills. But seriously Polymer is incredibbly tough, tough enough to be run over by a heavy vehicle and still fire. Not the case with metal.

Now I'm also hearing it said that the Hi Power is thinner than a Glock 19. Didn't feel that way in my hands. And the Glock 19 was and is much easier to conceal carry with 15 +1 rounds. Sure the BHP has been around for decades, since mid 1930's and are wonderful pistols. But that doesn't make the Polymer Glock 19 any less of a fine pistol as well.
Glocks - simple guns for simple people? Simple is as simple does.

[larryh1108]

I can detail strip a Hi Power in less than 10 minutes. I can have it down to the last pin. Once you know how to get the sear in place (3 hands) you can fully assemble it in the same 10 minutes. I've never detailed strip a Glock but it is sure easy to field strip it... just like the HP.

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

Just use a rod through the grip screw holes to hold the hammer back enough. Worked good enough for me.

[larryh1108]

Also, inserting a mag 2/3 the way in hold the sear spring back as well. Clothes pins do the job also. Once you find a way that works for you it is as easy as it gets.

[Prosser]

My experience with FN Hi-Powers was a bit like that Song girl with the huge breasts that everyone wanted. You finally get her, and her friend, and find out neither one is very accurate, hard to deal with, and, shoots an anemic round.

Sadder, but wiser you get rid of both of them, but, in the back of your mind, you still think maybe you should have kept at least one of them, sort of for the trophy, and the beautiful lines. Just something to look at and fondle, but not for serious accuracy work;-)

[Mizar]

That is why you must never choose a weapon based on pictures, advertisements, or somebody else's opinion without handling and shooting it first. No matter what they say and how they praise it. :)

Boris

[Prosser]

I still wonder what happened to that song girl, and that was in 1971;):D

[iblong]

I own 4 glocks,High power all the way.
For your purposes and carry not an issue I would definately get the high power.or mabe a 9mm 1911.

[dogtown tom]

iblong I own 4 glocks,High power all the way.
For your purposes and carry not an issue I would definately get the high power.or mabe a 9mm 1911.
A 1911 in 9mm is heresy and in Texas is punishable by fine, imprisonment or expulsion to Oklahoma.

The only acceptable calibers for a 1911 are .45acp and .38 Super.


I know this because JMB said so.










:D

[GunTech]

This is the reason they make more than one flavor of ice cream. :)

Ultimately, they are both great guns, and as noted the durability won't be an issue to the average shooter anyway. Buy whatever you like best.

[SharpsDressedMan]

JMB didn't know about the 10mm:)

[19&41]

The Hi power has removable stocks that allow side activated lasergrips to be installed. That is the main reason I prefer it to the Glock.

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/crim_LG617.jpg
They do have laser grips for them. Or did you mean that you prefer them to be side activated only?

[Erik]

The Glock offerings and the Hi-Powers will all serve you well. I recommend that you get the HP, if for no other reason than you seem to have a preference/appreciation for one.

[19&41]

I like the side activation best. It offers better control over activation for me, as I like to activate the sight just before placing the dot. It allows a faster shot without the temptation to trade good for perfect. I've tried the piggyback unit also, but it didn't work for me.

[augustino]

They're BOTH great pistols as far as I'm concerned. Had a Hi Power and sold it, wish I had not.
Will eventually get another BHP when the budget allows.
Still have my Glocks but have learned a lesson, sell your car, sell your house. But don't sell you firearms. I did and I wish I hadn't.
Again, BOTH are great pistols.

[SmithMan]

I just love the Arcus 98. Best over-built HP copy out there!
I've found that you really have to get used to the glock 17's grip angle feel in your hand to shoot it well. I never could come to like the dang thing though.
Just sayin....

[nonseven]

Plastic just gets brittle

Only if exposed to UV radiation for long periods.

So unless you store your Glock on the front lawn, it shouldn't be a problem.

[SharpsDressedMan]

deleted. duplicate.

[vmr357]

I'm late to the party, but thought I'd toss in my two cents. The medium sized Glocks are handy little guns and seem to work quite well. My brother has a G 19 and is very happy with it. I've got a couple of Hi Powers so my brother and I have our differences.

I've never be fond of the Glock trigger action. It feels spongy to me. If you have a dud or hang fire, there no hammer to pull back and give it a second try. One the other hand, if you pull the trigger the striker fires whether you are pointed down range or sloppy holstering you gun.

The Browning HP has some heft to it and good controls. If you lock the safety the action is locked. That's more than you can do with a Glock. The Mark III's even have a firing pin block if that's important to you. Some say the HP triggers are gritty. That can be true for some guns, but that can be fixed if it's a problem. The newer sights are good, they are accurate enough, and they soak up the recoil nicely. The HP's are bigger than the G19, but just as flat so they carry well enough.

http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad167/vmr357/BHPblackdot.jpg
This is mine and there are 5 holes in this target. That's a 1" square from 15 yards. I'm not that great a shot either.

Vern

[otisrush]

I thought I'd post a quick follow up.

While I'd convinced myself, in theory, to get a Hi Power, I knew I had to try it. The local store has an indoor range - along with a Hi Power in their range gun offering. Tonight I went and tried it out. Holy cow what a fun gun to shoot!

They had to order it - but the new one should be in in about a week.:o

Thanks again for all the helpful replies.

OR

[Marshall]

Congrats Otisrush!

Which model did you order?

[otisrush]

Thanks Marshall.

I decided on the standard (wood grips) with adjustable sights. I most definitely concluded I'm a "steel and wood" guy.

Jim

[oldfool]

Two young ladies:
One, a Belgian, is 36", 24", 36" (round in all the right places)
The other, an Austrian, is 37", 25", 37" (square in all the wrong places)

any time I need a hug, I know which one I would pick
(something or other to do with what fits your hand, I guess)

[IBEWBULL]

I have several Glocks, they do the job sure enough but taste changes.
I have shot the Glock side by side with my Browning I do as well with both of them.
The full size HP carries easier for me. Slim and clean lines.
I made the mistake when I needed money of selling it to a relation who I assumed would sell the HP back. Did not happen now I an HP less.
The Browning High Power is a thing of beauty and piece of art plus a great tool.
The Glock is a great tool.
I also liked the FM High Power it too is gone.

[waidmann]

High Power with target sights, hands down.

[GunTech]

The plastic/polymer comments are pretty humorous. Plastic is a very generic term that really describes the behavior of a material, and says nothing about their composition. Polymer is equally ambiguous in describing synthehic materials. Both are marketing terms and are fairly meaningless.

There are thousands and thousands of synthetic polymeric compounds who's behavior varies as much or more as different metals. To ascribe universal characteristics to all polymers is to demonstrate a shocking lack of knowledge about the whole class of materials.

IIRC, the Glock frame is made from polycaprolactam, AKA Perlon, a very durable and long life material that is resistant to UV degradation. It's nothing like, for example Polyethylene terephthalate or PET, which is commonly used in soda bottles although both can be described as plastics or polymers.

Saying all polymers are the same or have the same characteristics of durability, resistance to UV, 'brittleness', etc is like saying copper is the same as iron except that copper and iron are more closely related than PET and Perlon.

Just saying...

[Marshall]

Thanks Marshall.

I decided on the standard (wood grips) with adjustable sights. I most definitely concluded I'm a "steel and wood" guy.

Jim

Jim, the Standard with adjustable sights is one of the prettiest pistols on the market. The bluing is amazing and when combined with the lines of HP, you have a great looking gun! Classic. Accurate too.

Post some pics when you can. Congrats again! :)

[jjboogie]

I have never owned a Browning.....but I have held several and they always feel great in my hand.

A friend of mine who knows guns inside and out said that the Browning although shoot better they do require a bit more maintenance. That would be the only drawback for me.

But if you have the knowledge, patience and money to deal with the then it shouldn't be a big deal.

[otisrush]

Marshall:

Thanks for the interest.

I just completed the initial field strip and cleaning. I have an appt with a buddy to head to the range Sunday morning to put a few rounds through it.

Does the recoil spring loosen up a bit with use? It seems really stiff. I find it hard to grab the slide without pushing against the rear sights - and it makes me wonder if I'm going to mess up any adjustments I end up making to those sights.

Thanks again for the informative and thoughtful responses.

OR

http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc420/otisrush/IMG_0162.jpg

[KodiakBeer]

You won't mess up the sights. You have to turn the screws to do that.

[Prosser]

That's just too pretty!;-)

[vmr357]

Very nice OR. You'll have lots of fun with that one. Then you'll start thinking about whether you want rosewood or coco bolo grips. Next you'll wonder what Don Williams can do for you at his Action Works. But that's OK. You can shoot a few dozen boxes of ammo before you need to worry about any of that stuff. The Hi Power is just nice to hold and look at too.

Vern

[gmh1013]

hi-power!
glocks are fugly

[Marshall]

OR,

Gorgeous Hi Power!

It will become easier as time goes by and you'll get used to it as well. My Hi Powers have never been too stiff but I bought a new Nickel Browning BDA .380 in the 80's that made me question my manhood the spring was so stiff. It became lighter the more I used it.

Craig Spegel makes some very nice grips for the Hi Power.

http://www.craigspegel.com/

Can be found here:
http://www.novaksights.com/products/grips/spegelgrips/spegelbhp.html

[vmr357]

There is something about those nice blue Hi Powers. They are just beautiful guns. OR a place you should become acquainted with is Stephen A. Camp's Hi Powers and Handguns page. http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/ Click the Hi Power tab and you see a list of articles covering just about everything you'd want to know about the Hi Power -- and a lot of other guns too on the other tabs.

Vern

[whalerman]

You have to ask yourself what you are using the weapon for. As previous posters have said, they are night and day. If you're seeking a 9mm, I'm thinking you want if for carry. Glock offers you more choices in this respect. But you have to decide what your uses will be. If you want to own a piece of art, enjoy your Hi-Power. If you want an indestructable tool. Well, think about it. Glocks are as reliable as they come. If you go to an Armorer's class you will learn your weapon inside out. That's a great confidence builder.

My two Browning HiPowers are in my safe. Two Glocks are also in the safe. But a third goes to work with me. Its not the gun its your needs that need to be considered.

[dogtown tom]

whalerman: ...If you want an indestructable tool. Well, think about it. Glocks are as reliable as they come...

When was the last time a Hi Power kaboomed?:evil:

[larryh1108]

How does a 50 or 75 year old Glock perform?
Wait, they haven't been around that long... yet.
The Hi Power has and is still ticking. I have one that was
made in 1943 (67 years old) and it is as reliable as the
day it was built. I'm sure Glock will be there some day but
in the mean time, the BHP and 1911 can claim that status.

[MartyGrant]

My Hi-Power with C&S trigger, Spegel grips and C&S safety is still my favorite pistol and a joy to shoot. VERY ACCURATE. For a CCW everyday ...it's an XD9SC for me (or a Glock 26 as a second choice.)

[dcarch]

Zombie Thread Alert!!!

[SharpsDressedMan]

Yeah, two and a half months.....that's pretty dead........:rolleyes:

[dcarch]

Well, didn't the guy end up getting the BHP by page 5?

[SharpsDressedMan]

I like to think that, sometimes, threads offer a higher plane of discussion, that the question rises above just answering the OP's original question. I am sometimes disappointed when a moderator closes the thread. I sometimes think the truth is out there, and maybe we didnt reach it all yet.

[otisrush]

I have to say, as the OP, this thread ABSOLUTELY answered my question on a higher plane than how I asked it. In fact, I'd say the responses here have caused my enjoyment of the BHP to be much higher than I thought it would be.

OR

[dcarch]

Well, if it works for you, than go for it! I just like getting the opportunity to mention zombies. :D